Nasuverse A Different Path

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#1
We all know that Shirou gained his ideals via admiration for Emiya Kiritsugu's own path. However, what if he were to develop another set of ideals? More specifically, what if he were to develop the ideals of Saito Hajime, the Wolf of Mibu?

How and why he took up Saito's ideals would be up to the author, but would have to happen fairly early on. This would have the potential to be a darker fic, given that Saito's motto was Aku Soku Zan. It would also change Shirou's interaction with those around him - I can see him being contempous of Shinji, for one.

His interactions with Archer and Saber would change too, but I just haven't figured out how.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#2
Lord of Bones said:
We all know that Shirou gained his ideals via admiration for Emiya Kiritsugu's own path. However, what if he were to develop another set of ideals? More specifically, what if he were to develop the ideals of Saito Hajime, the Wolf of Mibu?

How and why he took up Saito's ideals would be up to the author, but would have to happen fairly early on. This would have the potential to be a darker fic, given that Saito's motto was Aku Soku Zan. It would also change Shirou's interaction with those around him - I can see him being contempous of Shinji, for one.

His interactions with Archer and Saber would change too, but I just haven't figured out how.
First of all: :wub:

I'm a huge Rurouni fanboy, which has lead to me doing some background reading on the Shinsengumi over the years.

I think, in the interests of making the change happen as early as possible, Shirou must be exposed to the Shinsengumi before his parents die.

The simplest option I can think of is to ignore the historical Corps and go straight for anime. Shirou and his pop sprawl on the couch and watch RuroKen reruns, or something. Even better, make his dad a huge RK nut, with the OVAs and TV series on VHS, and a shrine built around the manga and stuff. Hard not to take some of that in, as a kid.

From there, his young mind makes certain connections as he lies dying of smoke inhalation.

Fuyuki fire = Ikedaya.

Therefore, some bastard set a fire that burned a huge chunk of the real estate and snuffed out more than a few people's lives.

That would sow the seeds. Kiritsugu's later revelations and the tracery training would give him his own fangs. Put the two together to form the swift death to evil. Aku Soku Zan, especially to Sorcerors playing at war in my city.

It wouldn't take much effort to have Shirou visit some kind of Shinsengumi display at a museum.

One trace later, and he can produce mythical katanas like Kikuichimonji, Kotetsu and the like. The legends surrounding Japanese swordsmithing, kenjutsu and the like would, I think, give the weapons enough magical punch to injure a careless Servant.

Even more importantly, he gets Hirazuki downloaded into his Reality Marble. Gatotsu is only a step away from that. And if Shinji gets good enough at that, he might even pull a Kojirou and elevate the skill into NP territory. Kenki and Prana might be the same thing. Or, at least, similar enough that Prana can do the same things as Kenki does in RK.

Academically, Shirou's grasp of Japanese history and the kind of social, financial and political factors that led to the Bakumatsu mean that he regularly outperforms Rin in History, Geography and Political Studies classes. (Presuming such subjects are actually part of Japanese school subjects.) The rest of the curriculum would interest him not at all, I suspect.

On the other hand, he'd have the Archery club and the Kendo club competing fiercely for his membership.

If things go down as in canon, then the first change will take place when Shirou sees Lancer and Archer fighting. Remember the Shinsengumi rules? Yeah. He's going to trace a katana and charge straight for Lancer's throat. Depending just how good Shirou has gotten, the initial exchange could go in his favour - Lancer will be expecting easy prey. He'll get a cornered wolf, instead.

If he puts Lancer down quickly and goes home (presuming Rin orders Archer to leave him be, of course) then the rest of the night goes as normal - Lancer comes for him, they demolish half of the house in a running duel, the Servant outlasts the human and then gets owned by the petite bonde lass.

Where things go from there, I know not. Shirou will understand Saber a great deal earlier, even as he refuses to be mollycoddled by her. Rin's bluster about killing him would backfire horribly here - although, if she allows him to retreat, he may stay his hand. She's not Evil, by his rules.

Someone who is, however, both Evil and likely to die very quickly indeed, is our dear friend Matou Shinji. This Shirou will loathe him from the get-go. If any hint of Shinji's involvement with the on-campus murders turns up, he's dead. And if he touched Fujimura, he's going to suffer before he dies.

One final word - no budding Wolf of Mibu could possibly turn down the chance to duel Kojiro. That is all.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#3
Kojiro vs Shirou is a must, along with a dumbfounded Saber watching the whole thing as she tries to come to terms with the fact that a Servant ignored her in favor of her master and that her master is giving as good as he gets.

The scene with Rin vs Shirou, just before Rider shows up, would be interesting, as would the scenes with Shinji.

Either way, I don't see Saito!Shirou having much of a close relationship with Sakura.
 

ksho

Well-Known Member
#4
You guys are looking too much at the coolness factor and not so much at the philosophical factor.

For an idea on how Saber and Archer's interactions with a Saito-esque Shirou would turn out, you need only to look at the the following scene from the UBW route [WARNING: Spoilers for the Unlimited Blade Works]:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070622235819/...i.pbwiki.com/VS

It's a scene between Archer, Saber and Shirou (which happens before the big showdown between both Shirou's) where Archer discusses his past...and the despairing fate he has doomed himself to in his unending pursuit of justice.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#5
Lord of Bones said:
Either way, I don't see Saito!Shirou having much of a close relationship with Sakura.
That depends somewhat on how quickly Shirou diverges from canon-Shirou, and how his changes effect those around him.

If he ever found out what Shinji's been doing to Sakura, even if he hadn't become friends with her... Aku. Soku. ZAN! That could lead to Shinji, and maybe even Zoken, being dead by the time the Fifth Holy Grail War starts.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#6
ksho said:
You guys are looking too much at the coolness factor and not so much at the philosophical factor.

For an idea on how Saber and Archer's interactions with a Saito-esque Shirou would turn out, you need only to look at the the following scene from the UBW route [WARNING: Spoilers for the Unlimited Blade Works]:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070622235819/...i.pbwiki.com/VS

It's a scene between Archer, Saber and Shirou (which happens before the big showdown between both Shirou's) where Archer discusses his past...and the despairing fate he has doomed himself to in his unending pursuit of justice.
The Shinsengumi are not about saving lives, or justice, or honour, or the good of the many. If those things come about as a result of their actions, then that's all well and good.

The Shinsengumi are about absolutes - Kill Evil Swiftly. Do not break the rules of the Shinsengumi, for death is the result. That's their philosophy in a nutshell. A Shirou following Aku Soku Zan wouldn't find himself in Archer's position. if only because Aku Soku Zan applies equally within Shinsengumi as outside of them.

Therefore, those who follow that code do so without mercy, because it will be applied to them without mercy. Archer's regrets over his own actions come about because, deep down, he still believes that no-one should have to be a sacrifice. This Shirou is the opposite - he only kills people who are evil, by his definition of the term. Because they are evil, he will not regret killing them. It's a catch-22 that will reinforce itself indefinitely, and it's a classic paradigm of the mentality tailored for killing. Us and Them, Good and Evil, et cetera.

Is that philosophical enough? :huh.:
 

Elvarein

Well-Known Member
#7
Have to agree with Trevelayn's interpretation with one cavaet. In this day and age, the Shinsengumi have become ideals. Aku Soku Zan, is a creation by RK's mangaka. The real Shinsengumi followed the Samurai Code (Bushido) fanatically, with their leaders strictly enforcing all aspects of it, to the extent that any infraction would be punished by ritual sucide. Furthermore, they believed that if one started a fight, they must finish it, on no account are they to flee. If you had run away, you would be ordered to commit sucide.

These regulations along with some unfavourable incidents (extortion, disturbing the peace, etc) caused them to be given the monikor "Wolves of Mibu". (As a sidenote, the term Wolves is not used as praise but as a description of someone who had no compassion or morals.)

Furthermore, it has to be noted that the leaders of the Shinsengumi had some amount of infighting, and there were two major factions within the group. At one point, Serizawa Kamo was assasinated by members of the opposing faction (either Hijikata, Okita, Yamanami, Inoue, and Harada or Hijikata, Todou, Saitou and Harada depending on which theory you follow) under orders by Kondo Isami.

Thus, if you want to base the story on a RK cross, either you have to make RK the "history" of Type Moon's Universe OR make it clear that Shirou is following the manga.

PS. Wouldn't it be funny if Kenshin was summoned as Saber? :sweat: Although it would be hilarious if you got Sanosuke in his Zamza form.

Edit. Bah, I wrote Sousuke. Been watching too much FMP
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#8
Prince Charon said:
Lord of Bones said:
Either way, I don't see Saito!Shirou having much of a close relationship with Sakura.
That depends somewhat on how quickly Shirou diverges from canon-Shirou, and how his changes effect those around him.

If he ever found out what Shinji's been doing to Sakura, even if he hadn't become friends with her... Aku. Soku. ZAN! That could lead to Shinji, and maybe even Zoken, being dead by the time the Fifth Holy Grail War starts.
On the other hand, if there's even a hint of Sakura assuming her Dark persona, she's going to be on the receiving end of a Gatotsu.

Given that Saito wasn't a very personable man, I don't see Saito!Shirou having much interaction with anyone (much less Sakura) as he'll be a loner (or they're too intimidated by him).

Rin's threat and Shirou's reaction would be fairly amusing (for us) and slightly terrifying (for her).
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#9
A very short possible scene:

Emiya Shirou raised an eyebrow as he saw Tohsaka Rin standing on top of the stairs that connected the floors. He idly wondered why she looked so angry, considering that he hardly spoke to her.

"Emiya-kun, do you understand how great an idiot you are?" she hissed out through gritted teeth. At his unfazed expression, she snarled out "To wander around without a Servant; do you truly wish to die?"

Shirou's eyes narrowed slightly as he saw Rin roll up her sleeve and take aim at him, easily recognizing the spell she was about cast. 'A Gand', he noted, assessing the best way to deal with the situation. Rin smirked slightly. "This won't kill you, Emiya-kun, so stay put!" she said as she released the spell.

The spell detonated. Rin shielded her eyes from the flash the spell released.

And then she felt something sharp poking her chest. Slowly, she lowered her arm, only to see Shirou standing in front of her in a thrusting position, a katana aimed directly at her heart. It was then she noticed his eyes. His once blank golden eyes now gleamed predatorially, like a wolf's.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#10
I was thinking it would just be a Shisengumi Shirou, with elements of Saitou. If you want an entire transplant, though, there's something else to consider.

How does a wolf walk amongst sheep, without frightening the prey?

In times of peace, even a Ronin of Mibu must know when to sheathe his blade and hide his fangs. In order to live in Meiji, Saito Hajime gave way to Fujita Goro. Shirou must do the same, creating a public persona to allow him to hide the Swift Death to Evil until the most appropriate moment.

Ironically enough, that bland and inoffensive soul comes closest to mirroring the Shirou of Fate Stay Night.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#11
trevelyan1983 said:
I was thinking it would just be a Shisengumi Shirou, with elements of Saitou. If you want an entire transplant, though, there's something else to consider.

How does a wolf walk amongst sheep, without frightening the prey?

In times of peace, even a Ronin of Mibu must know when to sheathe his blade and hide his fangs. In order to live in Meiji, Saito Hajime gave way to Fujita Goro. Shirou must do the same, creating a public persona to allow him to hide the Swift Death to Evil until the most appropriate moment.

Ironically enough, that bland and inoffensive soul comes closest to mirroring the Shirou of Fate Stay Night.
The reactions of Saber, Rin, Archer and the others would be interesting enough once they see Goro!Shirou turn into Saitou!Shirou. Saber alone would be rather surprised to see Shirou keeping up with her on the battlefield.

Any thoughts on how Rin and Archer would react (especially when Shirou declares his motto/justice of Aku Soku Zan)?
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#12
Lord of Bones said:
trevelyan1983 said:
I was thinking it would just be a Shisengumi Shirou, with elements of Saitou.? If you want an entire transplant, though, there's something else to consider.?

How does a wolf walk amongst sheep, without frightening the prey??

In times of peace, even a Ronin of Mibu must know when to sheathe his blade and hide his fangs.? In order to live in Meiji, Saito Hajime gave way to Fujita Goro.? Shirou must do the same, creating a public persona to allow him to hide the Swift Death to Evil until the most appropriate moment.?

Ironically enough, that bland and inoffensive soul comes closest to mirroring the Shirou of Fate Stay Night.
The reactions of Saber, Rin, Archer and the others would be interesting enough once they see Goro!Shirou turn into Saitou!Shirou. Saber alone would be rather surprised to see Shirou keeping up with her on the battlefield.

Any thoughts on how Rin and Archer would react (especially when Shirou declares his motto/justice of Aku Soku Zan)?
Well, Archer would be rather different from canon Archer, already, since Shirou lives by a different philosophy.
 

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#13
Prince Charon said:
Lord of Bones said:
trevelyan1983 said:
I was thinking it would just be a Shisengumi Shirou, with elements of Saitou.? If you want an entire transplant, though, there's something else to consider.?

How does a wolf walk amongst sheep, without frightening the prey??

In times of peace, even a Ronin of Mibu must know when to sheathe his blade and hide his fangs.? In order to live in Meiji, Saito Hajime gave way to Fujita Goro.? Shirou must do the same, creating a public persona to allow him to hide the Swift Death to Evil until the most appropriate moment.?

Ironically enough, that bland and inoffensive soul comes closest to mirroring the Shirou of Fate Stay Night.
The reactions of Saber, Rin, Archer and the others would be interesting enough once they see Goro!Shirou turn into Saitou!Shirou. Saber alone would be rather surprised to see Shirou keeping up with her on the battlefield.

Any thoughts on how Rin and Archer would react (especially when Shirou declares his motto/justice of Aku Soku Zan)?
Well, Archer would be rather different from canon Archer, already, since Shirou lives by a different philosophy.
Archer!Emiya came from a timeline entirely seperate from the three canon paths. (The Fate path's Shirou is supposedly the most similar but still not the same.)

So while this Emiya Shirou would be influenced by Saitou, there's no reason why Archer!Emiya own past would be the same.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#14
Shiakou said:
Prince Charon said:
Lord of Bones said:
trevelyan1983 said:
I was thinking it would just be a Shisengumi Shirou, with elements of Saitou.á If you want an entire transplant, though, there's something else to consider.á

How does a wolf walk amongst sheep, without frightening the prey?á

In times of peace, even a Ronin of Mibu must know when to sheathe his blade and hide his fangs.á In order to live in Meiji, Saito Hajime gave way to Fujita Goro.á Shirou must do the same, creating a public persona to allow him to hide the Swift Death to Evil until the most appropriate moment.á

Ironically enough, that bland and inoffensive soul comes closest to mirroring the Shirou of Fate Stay Night.
The reactions of Saber, Rin, Archer and the others would be interesting enough once they see Goro!Shirou turn into Saitou!Shirou. Saber alone would be rather surprised to see Shirou keeping up with her on the battlefield.

Any thoughts on how Rin and Archer would react (especially when Shirou declares his motto/justice of Aku Soku Zan)?
Well, Archer would be rather different from canon Archer, already, since Shirou lives by a different philosophy.
Archer!Emiya came from a timeline entirely seperate from the three canon paths. (The Fate path's Shirou is supposedly the most similar but still not the same.)

So while this Emiya Shirou would be influenced by Saitou, there's no reason why Archer!Emiya own past would be the same.
And Archer wants to kill Shirou, since Shirou will become Archer. On the other hand, Saitou!Shirou follows an entirely different path and is considerably more ruthless than Archer's past self presumably was, so Archer will probably experience some internal conflict. Which again leads to the question of how Archer and Rin will handle Saitou!Shirou. And how will Saber?

Presumably, Rin will be wary and probably terrified of Shirou, but I'm interested in other points of view.

Which reminds me, any idea how Saitou!Shirou will take to Ilya's attempts to kill him?
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#15
There wouldn't be any internal conflict. It is canon that the moment Shirou drops his canon ideals Archer will leave him alone.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#16
I suspect that Shirou's Reality Marble might change. Instead of the Unlimited Blade Works . . . well. I shall see what occurs to the rest of TFF. ^_^
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#17
Would it matter? The only reason he can trace is because of the very specific, but totally illogical, path he took. Besides the fact that it's unlikely he'd follow that path it is unlikely that he'd have the power to use something as advanced a a reality marble.
 

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#18
Lord of Bones said:
Shiakou said:
Prince Charon said:
Lord of Bones said:
trevelyan1983 said:
I was thinking it would just be a Shisengumi Shirou, with elements of Saitou.á If you want an entire transplant, though, there's something else to consider.á

How does a wolf walk amongst sheep, without frightening the prey?á

In times of peace, even a Ronin of Mibu must know when to sheathe his blade and hide his fangs.á In order to live in Meiji, Saito Hajime gave way to Fujita Goro.á Shirou must do the same, creating a public persona to allow him to hide the Swift Death to Evil until the most appropriate moment.á

Ironically enough, that bland and inoffensive soul comes closest to mirroring the Shirou of Fate Stay Night.
The reactions of Saber, Rin, Archer and the others would be interesting enough once they see Goro!Shirou turn into Saitou!Shirou. Saber alone would be rather surprised to see Shirou keeping up with her on the battlefield.

Any thoughts on how Rin and Archer would react (especially when Shirou declares his motto/justice of Aku Soku Zan)?
Well, Archer would be rather different from canon Archer, already, since Shirou lives by a different philosophy.
Archer!Emiya came from a timeline entirely seperate from the three canon paths. (The Fate path's Shirou is supposedly the most similar but still not the same.)

So while this Emiya Shirou would be influenced by Saitou, there's no reason why Archer!Emiya own past would be the same.
And Archer wants to kill Shirou, since Shirou will become Archer. On the other hand, Saitou!Shirou follows an entirely different path and is considerably more ruthless than Archer's past self presumably was, so Archer will probably experience some internal conflict.
Nope. Heaven's Feel addressed that point. Archer will not try to kill a Shirou who no longer has his "save everyone" idealism.

Actually the way I see it, Saitou!Shirou won't be that much different from a regular Counter Guardian.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#19
zeebee1 said:
Would it matter. The only reason he can trace is because of the very specific, but totally illogical, path he took. Besides the fact that it's unlikely he'd follow that path it is unlikely that he'd have the power to use something as advanced a a reality marble.
I was thinking the same thing. Shirou's self-sacrificing foolishness is what brought about his Reality Marble in the first place; change that, and it's almost guaranteed to just not happen.

The most I can see is Saitou!Shirou mastering Reinforcement magic to the point that he can pull off some neat physical tricks, and most likely make a sword nigh-unbreakable. It might come in handy for him, but it's no Reality Marble.

Archer wouldn't bother with Saitou!Shirou. Plainly put, Archer is only interested in killing the Shirou that became the hero EMIYA. Anyone so blatantly different can't be his target.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#20
toraneko said:
zeebee1 said:
Would it matter. The only reason he can trace is because of the very specific, but totally illogical, path he took. Besides the fact that it's unlikely he'd follow that path it is unlikely that he'd have the power to use something as advanced a a reality marble.
I was thinking the same thing. Shirou's self-sacrificing foolishness is what brought about his Reality Marble in the first place; change that, and it's almost guaranteed to just not happen.

The most I can see is Saitou!Shirou mastering Reinforcement magic to the point that he can pull off some neat physical tricks, and most likely make a sword nigh-unbreakable. It might come in handy for him, but it's no Reality Marble.

Archer wouldn't bother with Saitou!Shirou. Plainly put, Archer is only interested in killing the Shirou that became the hero EMIYA. Anyone so blatantly different can't be his target.
That's assuming he knows his counterpart's true agenda. For all intents and purposes, Saitou!Shirou acts like canon!Shirou in public, so what Archer knows of Shirou will be what Rin knows of Shirou.

Anyway, no-one has answered how Rin would handle Shirou when he reveals his Saitou persona (after all, she knows him as canon!Shirou) and how Shirou will deal with Ilya.

Additionally, how would things diverge from canon with Saitou!Shirou?
 

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#21
Lord of Bones said:
That's assuming he knows his counterpart's true agenda. For all intents and purposes, Saitou!Shirou acts like canon!Shirou in public, so what Archer knows of Shirou will be what Rin knows of Shirou.
On the other hand, you're assuming that Archer wouldn't suspect his counterpart. You do realize that Archer is both a veteran warrior and a cynic? That he has been betrayed several times in his lifetime and will be suspicious of anyone, most of all his former self? That his ability to observe and judge people are classified as Noble Phantasms in and of themselves? That his own ability to act and fool people is canon and noted in the UBW path where he triple-crossed his "allies" on both sides?

Saitou!Shirou may fancy himself good enough to fool ordinary people and maybe most mages, but Archer is another matter. Archer's main strongpoint as a sniper means that he studies people and situations almost instinctively while hiding his own. He will notice the tell-tale clues that are off about Saitou!Shirou.

Or to put it another way, if the original Saitou wasn't able to fool Sanosuke, what makes you think Saitou!Shirou can fool someone decades/centuries his senior wth infinitely vaster experience?

No, I think it's Rin who will be asking Archer advice on how to deal with Saitou!Shirou. That is, if Archer doesn't just chuckle and mislead her to Saitou!Shirou's nature because he's enjoying himself too much.

Anyway, no-one has answered how Rin would handle Shirou when he reveals his Saitou persona (after all, she knows him as canon!Shirou) and how Shirou will deal with Ilya.

Additionally, how would things diverge from canon with Saitou!Shirou?
Thats because both your questions are too vague and too advanced in a story that's not our own. For one, when and how does Saitou!Shirou reveal himself to Rin? In a confrontation between them as enemies? In a situation where Saitou!Shirou has to rescue Rin? Same with Ilya; ultimately, you don't give enough details for the questions to be answered. They'll probably be shocked, obviously, but anymore than that is debatable. We can only say with certainty that divirgences will exist, not their specific nature.

In addition to what zeebee and toraneko said, Saitou!Shirou will almost certainly have to develop some sort of Reinforcement or get a magical weapon. Without those, he can't hurt a Servant no matter how good he is, although he might be a threat to the Masters.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#22
Shiakou said:
Thats because both your questions are too vague and too advanced in a story that's not our own. For one, when and how does Saitou!Shirou reveal himself to Rin? In a confrontation between them as enemies? In a situation where Saitou!Shirou has to rescue Rin? Same with Ilya; ultimately, you don't give enough details for the questions to be answered. They'll probably be shocked, obviously, but anymore than that is debatable. We can only say with certainty that divirgences will exist, not their specific nature.

In addition to what zeebee and toraneko said, Saitou!Shirou will almost certainly have to develop some sort of Reinforcement or get a magical weapon. Without those, he can't hurt a Servant no matter how good he is, although he might be a threat to the Masters.
Okay, I'll rephrase: how would Rin react to Shirou revealing his Shinsengumi persona when she confronts him in the school (and when she tries to blast him with a Gand) and how would Shirou deal with Ilya when she sets Berserker on him and their subsequent encounters afterwards?

Point taken on the Archer thing.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#23
toraneko said:
I was thinking the same thing. Shirou's self-sacrificing foolishness is what brought about his Reality Marble in the first place; change that, and it's almost guaranteed to just not happen.

The most I can see is Saitou!Shirou mastering Reinforcement magic to the point that he can pull off some neat physical tricks, and most likely make a sword nigh-unbreakable. It might come in handy for him, but it's no Reality Marble.
Ah well. I was thinking that the Reality Marble could become a Shinsengumi version of Alexander's Army of the King. But if the personality change makes it impossible, then so be it.

I do think, however, that tracing and reinforcement would serve him well enough to allow combat with most of the Servants. Gil and Berserker would be the only people who could effortlessly own him. The rest would, I think, be hard pressed to do so without injury.

Japanese swords would get a boost from the home ground advantage and the various myths that surround them. Put that together with Hirazuki or Gatotsu, and you're cooking with gas.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#24
trevelyan1983 said:
toraneko said:
I was thinking the same thing. Shirou's self-sacrificing foolishness is what brought about his Reality Marble in the first place; change that, and it's almost guaranteed to just not happen.

The most I can see is Saitou!Shirou mastering Reinforcement magic to the point that he can pull off some neat physical tricks, and most likely make a sword nigh-unbreakable. It might come in handy for him, but it's no Reality Marble.
Ah well. I was thinking that the Reality Marble could become a Shinsengumi version of Alexander's Army of the King. But if the personality change makes it impossible, then so be it.

I do think, however, that tracing and reinforcement would serve him well enough to allow combat with most of the Servants. Gil and Berserker would be the only people who could effortlessly own him. The rest would, I think, be hard pressed to do so without injury.

Japanese swords would get a boost from the home ground advantage and the various myths that surround them. Put that together with Hirazuki or Gatotsu, and you're cooking with gas.
We are raping canon here, so there's no reason why we can't give Shirou a Reality Marble and a plausible backstory on how he activated it.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#25
Lord of Bones said:
trevelyan1983 said:
toraneko said:
I was thinking the same thing. Shirou's self-sacrificing foolishness is what brought about his Reality Marble in the first place; change that, and it's almost guaranteed to just not happen.

The most I can see is Saitou!Shirou mastering Reinforcement magic to the point that he can pull off some neat physical tricks, and most likely make a sword nigh-unbreakable. It might come in handy for him, but it's no Reality Marble.
Ah well. I was thinking that the Reality Marble could become a Shinsengumi version of Alexander's Army of the King. But if the personality change makes it impossible, then so be it.

I do think, however, that tracing and reinforcement would serve him well enough to allow combat with most of the Servants. Gil and Berserker would be the only people who could effortlessly own him. The rest would, I think, be hard pressed to do so without injury.

Japanese swords would get a boost from the home ground advantage and the various myths that surround them. Put that together with Hirazuki or Gatotsu, and you're cooking with gas.
We are raping canon here, so there's no reason why we can't give Shirou a Reality Marble and a plausible backstory on how he activated it.
Agreed.
 
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