Harry Potter A Dissertation on DH

Zephyrus

Searching for the six-fingered man.
#1
Well.

I did it.

As of ten minutes ago, I finished DH, the last Harry Potter book, and consequently, the end of an era and an age, much like I imagine the last of Tolkien's books were.

I'm still in a state of shock. That glorious feeling where my soul can only hum in contentment, that curious sensation that only lends itself to one who truly finds the beauty in the art of storytelling, and the appreciation of a thorough exploration of human nature.

I'm not even fully coherent. For the first five minutes after I finished the epilogue, I could only grasp the book to my chest and stare into space, tears prickling at the corners of my eyes and feeling both elated and empty at the same time.

Snape's fate was ungallant, and entirely unfair, which is what I'm sure JKR had intended. Not every hero is lamented, nor every brave action rewarded. Sometimes, heroes die in the lowest of gutters, alone and friendless. I had to put the book down for a bit after I read his death scene. I cried yet again.
A strangely repeating theme with this book.

But I digress.

I was always a Snape supporter, because there are certain parallels that I tend to draw between us. But for the lack of bitterness and certain familial situations, Snape and I could very well be the same person. Flaws as well as virtues, though I doubt many of you saw them.

Dumbledore? What can I say? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. He was a scheming old man who caused more trouble for everyone with his actions than he actually helped. I would even argue that he essentially created the monster known as Lord Voldemort. But then, a perfect character does not a good story make. He was personified in DH, something I truly appreciated, because it was such a hard thing to do. Most of us who grew up reading Harry Potter, always had this image in our head that Dumbledore was the next coming of Merlin. A great deal of fanfiction reflects this, I should think. To make him human was a monumental task, and I commend JKR for managinng it, it not nailing it on the head.

JKR drew us into such a war torn mindset, that each death took a bit of our souls with them. Of all the deaths that were mentioned, the death of one Tom Marvolo Riddle tore at me the most.

I held not hatred, nor contempt, nor gladness in my heart when he fell. Instead, there was pity. If only he had been shown the right path. If only he had been showered with a little more love than praise. If only his mother had not been a coward. If only, if only...... There is no doubt that Tom was a twisted creature, a murderer and vile. But still, there was a spark of pity in me for the person who needed love most desperately, though he hated and despised it as he would a thing to be scraped off of the bottom of his shoe.

The image that haunted me the most was of that huddled, shaking, tortured child, who could only wail in pain and loss the entire time he was trapped in Harry Potter's soul. Can you imagine how very different things would have been had Dumbledore attempted to simply be kind and act as a father figure to the boy instead of eyeing him warily and with mounting suspicion with each passing year at Hogwarts?

Tom Marvolo Riddle. A boy who twisted the ideals of purity and honor until only the desire for power and hunger to be accepted remained.

Yes, this was a fitting climax to Harry Potter. Though, I can't help but wonder if one can truly call this a happy ending. People died, souls were lost, and some things were discarded, never to be found again. I think that the hope symbolized in the epilogue is what made this happy ending a reasonable success. Good always triumphs over evil, though not without heavy sacrifice and suffering to achieve it.

And now my friends, if you will excuse me. I'm off to bed to dream a dream of a young boy and the chance that perhaps things will not be so bad in my dreams.

Tom Marvolo Riddle will only be a name. And Harry James Potter will grow up with a face unblemished.

Good night.
 
#3
I'd ask you to share whatever you were smoking, but I don't want anything that screws with my head that badly.
 

hchan1

Well-Known Member
#4
Personally, I was in a state of shock also after reading what JKR tried to pass off as an "epilogue", but not for the same reasons you were I imagine.
 

praeceps11

Well-Known Member
#5
Have you ever considered writing over the top flowery poetry for a living? :p
 

Lionheart

Well-Known Member
#6
I hope you were paid by her ad people for that little bit of Rowling worship.
 

Zephyrus

Searching for the six-fingered man.
#7
-cowers at sniping remarks from other forumites-

What, can't a guy just express his enjoyment for a book? And yeah, the epilogue sucked.

Why? Because it was a happy ending. In real life, that sort of crap doesn't happen.

And yes, I'm a rabid fan of HP. So sue me.

And it's not like I'm trying to restart that whole Shipping War or anything.

Not at all.

(Harry/Hermione all the way you Weasley loving bastards!)

I'm a pacifist who was just trying to express my feelings after having read a good book. I would also like you to keep in mind, however, that I started DH at 6 in the evening and did not finish it until 1 in the morning. No sleep or eating. Perfect formula for lack of coherency.

CR: My man, if you smoked what I smoked, your puny mortal mind would collapse under the pressure of the pure AWESOME of my smokage.v B)
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#8
You said you liked Snape. As far as the forum goes liking Snape is up there with veela!Draco impregnating Harry.

Before the book came out we had at least two threads heckling all the choices Rowling made when the book was leaked. This type of response was expected.
 

voidseeker

Well-Known Member
#9
Gin-whore is not canon dammit! i don't care what Rowling says

and snapes a douche
 

Zephyrus

Searching for the six-fingered man.
#10
zeebee1 said:
You said you liked Snape. As far as the forum goes liking Snape is up there with veela!Draco impregnating Harry.

Before the book came out we had at least two threads heckling all the choices Rowling made when the book was leaked. This type of response was expected.
So what, now empathizing with a character is now frowned up here at TFF? We can't root for the underdog or try to understand why a character acts like he/she acts?

Yaoi I can understand, as I totally condemn it as well, but I'm a little disapointed in you guys for attacking someone just for sharing his reactions to a book that he found moving, even if it wasn't perfect or up to TFF standards.

And besides, how does me getting enjoyment out of a character or a sappy ending have anything to do with TFF prejudices? Now that I know better, I'll keep my mouth shut, because I respect everyone's opinions here.

But I also think that respect runs both ways. If you guys are going to slam me for having an opinion, at least do it without hiding behind the "Snape is a douche and that's all there is to it!" schitck. Characters are not as two dimensional as they seem to be. If they were, there would be no fanfiction.

So, I drop the subject and consider this case closed.
 

immolo

Well-Known Member
#11
Snape's one redeeming element is he joined the Light Side because he had hisStalkeresque obsession target aka Lily killed because he is an idiot. It isn't really a very redeeming quality at all. Especially when he treats her son like shit.
 

H-Man

Random phantom.
#12
Well, the primary character who can be compared to Snape is Sasuke. If you didn't notice, he isn't the most loved character around.

And you want to argue for the underdog? Try comparing January 2006 posts to April 2007 posts when it comes to Hinata. The girl went from 'preferred Naruto girlfriend' to 'overused useless loser' and now, if you defend her, you get flamed.

As for you calling Deathly Hallows 'good'... it's primarily opinion. Like how my opinion on Haruhi is that it shouldn't have its own space on the board and be confined to AnimÚ/Mangß. I don't go around and voice it in that section because I don't go around flaming others for no reason.

Also, don't try to respect *everyone's* opinion here. This place learned some things from 4chan, including the 'majority is fact' point, apparently. This means that anybody arguing for the current minority is either a flamer or an idiot. So, what you should do is, instead, tell them that you aren't going to stop liking what you like but, since you're not interested in picking a fight, you're not going to bother arguing - and do so.

Thankfully, you're already halfway there.

I can't say what my opinion on your own 'dissertation' is, other than that I won't agree with it in all points, but you're a tad smart. Enough that you at least sound better than the people disagreeing with you.

Oh well.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#13
I'm not saying that Snape is the worst character in the series, or that he sould be universally hated. I'm saying that the reaction of the rest of the forum was pretty predictable.
 

praeceps11

Well-Known Member
#14
I liked DH, if not the epiloque because it felt very tacted on, the reason for my comment earlier was that well your post was kind of flowery and over the top so much so it actually felt like I was back in English lit. reciting all the crap poems the teachers sometimes forced us to do.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#15
H-Man said:
And you want to argue for the underdog? Try comparing January 2006 posts to April 2007 posts when it comes to Hinata. The girl went from 'preferred Naruto girlfriend' to 'overused useless loser' and now, if you defend her, you get flamed.
Hey, you know what? If you were flamed, then report it to Hawk and let him deal with it. That way, you get to not whine like an emo about people being mean to you, we don't have to read you whine line an emo, and TFF gets cleaned up, one flamer at a time.

I suspect, however, that the sulky, childish defensiveness of the Hinata fans around here means that this will be interpreted as a flame, whatever the reality of the situation. Much as I'd like to point out that Hinata, in canon is a useless loser, if an incredibly nice one and that there is something of a saturation of Hinata-based fics...

...Well. That would make be the bad guy, somehow. ^_^
 

Zephyrus

Searching for the six-fingered man.
#16
No, I'm not going to bitch and whine like a lot of the other people on here who can't take a hit or two.

But I'm also not going to be like you other assholes out there who insist on continuing the argument. If they want to act like some retarded n00b and make themselves look like idiots, they are welcome to do it.

Trev, thanks for your advice. Even if it made me out to be a whiner, even though I had already implicitly stated that the subject was closed and dropped. I appreciate the sentiment anyways. There is no need to bother Hawk about this. It's just a bunch of assholes taking great enjoyment out of being said asshole.

H-man, thanks for your advice as well. I just find it easier to keep my mouth shut. Unless they start getting personal in their insults, they can do all the talking they want. It just makes them look like the immature children they really are.

Thanks again, for those of who who saw that I was merely sharing a view, not trying to force it on others. That's why they call it an opinion.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#17
Zeph, just for the sake of clearing up a couple of misconceptions you seem to ave about my last post here - the comment about whinking like an emo was in regard to the various Hinata fans who see fit to paint themselves as victims, and the people who disagree with them as villains. That's all.

I wasn't trying to make an point about you, at all - in fact, I didn't feel you were whining at any point.

While I can't say that I'm particularly sad to see HP finish, I do understand the sentiment you were trying to convey, having been there myself once or twice. I especially remember feeling that way after seeing Noir. It also happened the first time I saw the ending to Tenchi Universe.

So, yeah, while TFF is the kind of place that prefers fap-worthy diversions over this kind of introspective look at a story and how it has affected us, there are some members who would, methinks, get what you mean. ^_^
 

BloodRedSword

Well-Known Member
#18
Personally, I found the book entertaining but it is not what I liked.... Reason why..
Ok, let's start from good points and proceed downwards.

Excellent:

- Voldemort's showmanship
Am I the only one who liked the way he manipulated and led around his death eaters, calling himself 'Lord Voldemort' and such? Not his actual plots and plans, mind you; just dialogues and general charisma.

- Cursed word 'Voldemort'
Pretty good idea.

- Underground radio and school resistance
Now that was just cool. Should have put in more of it.

Good:

- Manipulative!Dumbledore
*points finger mockingly* Ha ha!
Really, the old man's back-story and scheming were pretty good. The only thing missing was an expansion to some conspiracy theories in earlier years. Seems like a missed opportunity.

- Character deaths
I was pleasantly surprised by the number of character deaths. I may not like that Tonks and Dobby are dead, but I appreciate JKR's attempt to overcome her own pussyness and actually try to depict a half-realistic war.

- Areal action scenes
Pretty neat. Harry actually kills some people there (they fall stunned, but still).

Meh:

- Ginny
No, she doesn't need to go any lower. Her input in story in general was absolutely minimal. If she was a girl I approved of, I'd be pissed off I haven't seen more of her. If you're reluctant to read this because of HG, don't be; it doesn't bite... too hard.

- Redeemed!Snape
So expected. His fascination with Lily doesn't make much sense (considering the way he treated Harry), but I guess it's as good excuse as any to promote the mercy-kill theory from HBP.

- Ministry takeover
Soo, Voldemort needs less than two weeks to organize a complete takeover of the government? What the hell has he been doing for two years? On the other hand, the idea in general was good. Upping the stakes a bit.

Bad:

- Hermione
Too competent. She's like a universal band aid for any situation where some bit of knowledge is required. I mean, she did have good OWL's and all, but she's far from a prodigy like Dumbledore, Riddle or Snape. Harry and Ron are supposed to be decent students, but here, they are depicted as total bozos, thanks to her doing almost all the magic in the trio. The only reason she doesn't sink into the next category is that JKR made sure to make her rather uncertain under pressure.

- Life on the road
The central part was fucking boring. I had to literary force myself to keep plowing through all that pointless filler. I have a feeling JKR wanted to write something like LOTR, but lacked the plotting skills and foreplanning to pull it off properly. Thus, instead we have the trio wandering around aimlessly and angsting abut their cruel fate - for pages and pages and pages, until the next deus-ex machina finally steps in and gives them their next clue.

- Voldemort's sticky end
Sooo, by forcefully taking your opponent's wand, you take over the ownership over it? Wow, I guess DADA classes are a riot when practicing Expelliarmus. Everything about this finale seemed kind of random, too complicated and simply put - lame. Some good ass-kicking duel would have fit much better than this shit IMO.

- Snape's sticky end
It was just lame. Snape was depicted as a pretty kick-ass wizard here, but Voldemort shows him his little snake and he freezes, squealing like a pussy. Pathetic. I was hoping for some dramatic duel or a last stand or ANYTHING but this random fucking shit.

- Imperius and other canon upgrades
I'm displeased for the most part. Imperius is way too powerful, you can be your own secret keeper, house elves can transport people through wards and tracer spells and 17th birthday limitation(s) were just STUPID. Lots of potential plot holes if people start using these 'improvements'.

Terrible:

- The dratted epilogue
Duh.

- Harry's character
Once again doesn't learn anything new, as he spends all the free time twiddling with his dick. Refuses to use lethal measures and instead recycles the same 2-3 curses from OOTP. His entire repertoire is consisted of 10 or so spells mentioned in canon - for everything else, he relies on Hermione. Apparently, he hadn't even heard of transfiguration (didn't he get like E at OWLs?). Only a symbolic usage of Unforgivables; Imperio could have been used a LOT more often and Crucio was totally misused and unmotivated (I expected him to fry Umbridge or Bellatrix, not some random guy for being mean to some hag he barely knows). Forgives everyone, including the manipulative!Dumbledore and the greasy sallow child molester who had spent the entire life jerking off at the memory of his mum. Refuses power, preferring to be an average shmock.
Simply said, terrible. Absolutely terrible. The worst Harry ever.

----

Overall, the book had its good and not so good parts, but its main problem remains the general idea and direction JKR had taken starting with HBP.

Until OOTP, the point of HP was mostly self-empowerment; Harry and his friends were spending a lot of times learning new spells and skills that depended on their own power and dedication. Magic was fair, straightforward and fun.

But with HBP, the focus suddenly shifts towards enchanted objects and arcane/emotional crap. Harry stops practicing curses and starts tinkering with potions; Dumbledore spends all his time blabbing about some enchanted trinkets and obscure soul/love magic. Even Draco uses fucking trinkets to try and kill Dumbledore. What the hell happened with good old incantation, concentration, firm rules, homework?

DH continues in that same vein; More uber-powerful magical items, more arcane random magic and less actual brains and skills. Harry doesn't learn a single new spell during the course of book (and he has a LOT of time). Instead, we have even MORE fucking trinkets; uber wand, fabulous stone, mega cloak, yippee tents, potions, more wands, more crap... Even fucking Rowena Ravenclaw is smart only because of that super-brainomatic thingamajig on her head. And magic connecting all this is more random than ever; love sacrifices, remorse for redemption, freaky soul trips, death wish repelling AK, conquering wands like a fucking pimp hookers.

What the hell happened the whole 'wands only' rules from GOF? Isn't the whole point of being a wizard that you can do stuff WITHOUT having to carry around a bunch of junk with you? What's up with everybody suddenly squabbling over some fucking enchanted garbage, like bums in a refuse yard?

Honestly, this HP setting is a LOT different from the post-OOTP setting we love and know. I'm not sure I'd be able to write anything meaningful in this land of flashy trinkets, screwy random magic and deus-ex machines. Give me a wand, textbooks and an eager hardworking lad ready to learn and prosper; not this scavenger hunt shit.

I said first, I utterly despites H/Hr, H/G and any Slash or Severitus!Fic... They belong to one place... The Incinerator!

Edit: I got this better one from a friend of mine... Which I agree totally...
 
#19
Personally, I rather liked the book. I think BloodRedSword's list on the good and bad pretty much sums up what I thought. A few things I feel like it hasn't been said enough. In my opinion, Harry was a complete dumbass throughout the book. "Harry, don't say you-know-who's name. There's a taboo on it." "What, you mean Voldemort?" "...Shit."

The goblins were awesome. Fanon tends to portray goblins as misunderstood creatures who would help everyone and embrace sunshine and flowers if only people were nice to them while Rowling made the goblins so much more awesome than I thought she would portray them. Personally, I thought Griphook was one of the most ruthless characters in that book.

"Hey you're probably going to screw me over so I'll screw you over too, only I'll just do it in advance."
 

parker

Well-Known Member
#20
You wouldn't happen to be a member of DLP would you Blood
 

BloodRedSword

Well-Known Member
#21
Ya... Got it from ip82... Don't worry, I PM him already regarding this...
 

Zephyrus

Searching for the six-fingered man.
#22
trevelyan1983 said:
Zeph, just for the sake of clearing up a couple of misconceptions you seem to ave about my last post here - the comment about whinking like an emo was in regard to the various Hinata fans who see fit to paint themselves as victims, and the people who disagree with them as villains.? That's all.

I wasn't trying to make an point about you, at all - in fact, I didn't feel you were whining at any point.?

While I can't say that I'm particularly sad to see HP finish, I do understand the sentiment you were trying to convey, having been there myself once or twice.? I especially remember feeling that way after seeing Noir.? It also happened the first time I saw the ending to Tenchi Universe.?

So, yeah, while TFF is the kind of place that prefers fap-worthy diversions over this kind of introspective look at a story and how it has affected us, there are some members who would, methinks, get what you mean.? ^_^
Ah, well then Trev, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I've been a bit irritated after reading some of the responses to this thread, as I'm sure you can imagaine. So, again, I apologize and I'll try not to let my irritation get away from me again. ^_^
 

Raven1138

Well-Known Member
#23
While I agree that the epilogue was rather tacked on, I do think that the end of Voldemort was rather well done, contrary to BloodRedSword's view. Reading through the series, it is important to note that Harry never killed anyone as a deliberate act. Qurill was already dead from the moment he was possessed by Voldemort and the basilisk was merely having the sword in the right place at the right time. Thus, his soul was untainted, as opposed to the mutilated wretch Tom's had become. This even reflected on Voldemort's attitude as he became more and more deranged to the point he thought that any problem can be solved by blood sacrifice. Any sense of strategy or planning was discarded for only one response; to kill. Thus the prefect irony, that what did him in was not a superior wand or ultimate spell, but his own inability to walk away when he had a chance on to die by his own rebounded spell. In essence, those who live by the sword die by the sword.

Also, I do agree on the points of Vodemort's showmanship to controling the ministry and the resistance. When I first read those chapters, I was instantly reminded of France during WWII, with the Death Eaters taking the place of the Nazis and the Defence Association functioning like the French Marquis, complete with the Voice of the Resistance. I'm willing to bet that JKR spent a good bit of time researching Vichy France and the resistance when she created the outline for Hallows.
 
Top