A generic rant.

Moshulel

Well-Known Member
#51
GenocideHeart said:
toraneko said:
The Ranma/Akane debate has been done to death, but I'll sum up my opinions on it:
-They're both too stubborn to ever really work.
-He's too much of a misogynistic "player", and his ego blocks most all common sense.
-She's too much of a misanthropic, can't realize the truth when it's staring her in the face, and is, all in all, a poor example of a combination of two X chromosomes.
-They will never grow up. Ever. They'll be 80+ years old, and still doing their usual bullshit.
-Takahashi is a hack who can't be bothered to bring the story to a real conclusion, despite ample opportunity.
You win a million Internets. Do you want them shipped to you anonymously? :snigger:
Yes he does, but we must be carefull.. the dreaded KOTTF could intercept the shipment... :ph43r:
 

SimmyC

Well-Known Member
#52
Heh. Belldandy sends him a million Yggdrasils for writing what I think is, the truth. :p
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#53
Wow. Over a million internets, and a million Yggdrasils too?
I wonder where I should invest them... :D
 

Terdwilicker

Well-Known Member
#54
The more I write in Naru's character, the more messed up in the head I think she is. I'm coming to conclude she's a modern independent Japanese woman who really has little use for men and will someday leave hinata sou and do her own thing. I keep going over her character arc from the anime, seeing her actions in my head, imagining her thought process and its not pretty. She's not evolving. She's dangerous and mean and her self doubts fuel her violence. I'm not exactly a hater of Naru, I just see no evidence that she can adequately change from the violent person she is now to even be competitive with the other girls at Hinata sou, Mutsumi in particular.

When I consider other animes with violent women, they usually change (Ranma is one where she stays violent). A good example is Dual, where the violent girl becomes very gentle and kind once removed from the stress of competition with the other girls, and begs her boyfriend to stay with her and leave the war in the alternate dimension to those living there. Of course he doesn't, and he messes her up because of it.

In Tenchi, both Ayeka and Ryoko are violent, but to each other, not to him. Given a chance they comfortably express their love for him and show their gentle sides.

In comparison, Naru's gentle moments are just that: moments. She's violent more of the time than not. She's bad tempered when she's not being violent. I realize some of this is her upset over being in love with a loser, but even after he changes, she doesn't change her behavior. She's going to be left behind if she stays consistent with her depiction in the movies and anime. Even stuttering admission of love won't cut it if its immediately followed by a Naru Punch.
 

cilrais

Well-Known Member
#55
I think that our perceptions of light hearted comedies have been tainted over the years by very serious fanfiction portrayals.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#56
You need to read the LH manga, if you haven't already. There's much more that none of the animated series, including the specials and the LH Again OVA, covered. More Motoko, more background info on Su, and a resolution to Haruka and Seta's grown-up not-quite-romance. And, of course, Naru has her share of camera time. It's definitely worth it.

Edit: cilrais, I can agree for the most part. BUT, I actually do have all of the Ranma 1/2 manga, and found it little to no better than the fanfiction community often portrays. With the exception that the hammer thing isn't so frequent - it's more of Akane clobbering him with anything she can pick up, or her bare hands if she can't find a weapon of blunt trauma.
 

Legacy|iB

Well-Known Member
#57
I always attributed Naru's behaviour as part of being shy. Her violent attitude is more of an offshoot of that, only in a certain case. By default, she is an exceptionally angry and defensive person. Well, come on, how many of us (assuming we are girls) wouldn't be if somebody always walked in on us changing and/or in the nude, or accidentally grabbed our naughty bits on a rather frequent basis? Better yet, if this person has a somewhat questionable track record? That part alone may explain why she attacks Keitaro. A bit of overreaction, I'll admit, but explainable. I'm sure most of us would not enjoy being 'accidentally' grabbed. Some might, but that's, sadly, another case...

Accidents and such aside, I think I might be able to explain her attacking Keitaro in regards to their relationship. From my view, Naru is inconfident in herself and even has a bit of an inferiority complex. This is made so during all those indecisive moments she has regarding the true nature of her feelings for Keitaro. When you think about it, the manga did mention that she had very little time for socializing or making friends, doing stuff, etc, because she had to study for the entrance exams. This lack of interaction, I think, reduced part of her self-confidence. She spent more time alone, studying for tests than dating and going out, and ergo, she isn't able to see herself as a girlfriend or to commit to something as seemingly big and serious as romance. Also, the lack of social interaction would have made the whole romance thing seem even bigger to her than a mere 'boyfriend/girlfriend' thing.

So, enter Keitaro. Naru's lack of self-confidence is what prevents her from seriously commiting and admitting her love. When around Keitaro and in the vicinity of romance and such, her lack of confidence in herself to commit forces her to retreat back into a psychological safe zone, so to speak - pretty much, the area that makes her angry and punch things. She resorts to this because that's her way of getting out of the problems that she doesn't know how to react to.

There is a part of Naru that cares, however. Her lack of confidence hides it well, but when Keitaro is gone (either overseas or elsewhere), it gives her time to think to herself. It is here when she actually realizes her feelings and yearns for him. Of course, when Keitaro returns, again, her lack of self-confidence throws her back into her psychological safe zone to avoid all the romance problems.

I actually like this about Naru's character, namely, because I was in the same place for awhile, differences being gender and reactions from my end, and as a result, I can understand part of her. I too liked somebody when I was younger, but I had a near extreme lack of self-confidence. Every time I was around her, I never acted upon whatever feelings. Our daily conversations mainly consisted of 'Hi', 'See ya', 'Good morning', etc. When asked about it, I retreated back into my psychological safe zone - giving incoherent answers and hiding behind indecisive responses. When I wasn't around her, I realized that I did like her, but again, when around her again, I always went back into the safe zone. It's almost the same for Naru and her feelings for Keitaro, except Naru actually did get the courage to admit to herself, and Keitaro, her feelings.

For Naru, the solution to her problems doesn't mean having to become like Mutsumi - kind, gentle, frail perhaps, etc. Merely, she has to come to terms with herself and gather that bit of courage to do what is needed. There's no way for her to suddenly become Ghandi overnight, but there is a way to realize her feelings and simply go for them. That may reduce her violent behavior, but if so, she would lose her character too much. After that, what would she become - merely, a hot girlfriend/wife?

Those are my beliefs, anyways. I actually like Naru, and I've pretty much explained why. I understand why she does what she does. If Keitaro can be considered to have no spine, then in some way, he and Naru aren't all that different, actually. Keitaro needs to develop some courage to stand up for himself, and Naru needs to develop some courage to admit to herself.
 

Terdwilicker

Well-Known Member
#58
That is a very interesting look at Naru's character. I haven't read the Manga. Is there a recommended source/site for english translations of the manga? I've looked at amazon but it shows the manga mostly out of print and the novels aren't well regarded by reviewers.
 

AWJ

Well-Known Member
#59
The manga shouldn't be hard to find in bookstores still, as it was enormously popular and successful--probably one of its licensee's (TokyoPop) biggest hits, in fact.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#60
[quote="Legacy|]I always attributed Naru's behaviour as part of being shy. Her violent attitude is more of an offshoot of that, only in a certain case. By default, she is an exceptionally angry and defensive person. Well, come on, how many of us (assuming we are girls) wouldn't be if somebody always walked in on us changing and/or in the nude, or accidentally grabbed our naughty bits on a rather frequent basis? Better yet, if this person has a somewhat questionable track record? That part alone may explain why she attacks Keitaro. A bit of overreaction, I'll admit, but explainable. I'm sure most of us would not enjoy being 'accidentally' grabbed. Some might, but that's, sadly, another case...

Accidents and such aside, I think I might be able to explain her attacking Keitaro in regards to their relationship. From my view, Naru is inconfident in herself and even has a bit of an inferiority complex. This is made so during all those indecisive moments she has regarding the true nature of her feelings for Keitaro. When you think about it, the manga did mention that she had very little time for socializing or making friends, doing stuff, etc, because she had to study for the entrance exams. This lack of interaction, I think, reduced part of her self-confidence. She spent more time alone, studying for tests than dating and going out, and ergo, she isn't able to see herself as a girlfriend or to commit to something as seemingly big and serious as romance. Also, the lack of social interaction would have made the whole romance thing seem even bigger to her than a mere 'boyfriend/girlfriend' thing.

So, enter Keitaro. Naru's lack of self-confidence is what prevents her from seriously commiting and admitting her love. When around Keitaro and in the vicinity of romance and such, her lack of confidence in herself to commit forces her to retreat back into a psychological safe zone, so to speak - pretty much, the area that makes her angry and punch things. She resorts to this because that's her way of getting out of the problems that she doesn't know how to react to.

There is a part of Naru that cares, however. Her lack of confidence hides it well, but when Keitaro is gone (either overseas or elsewhere), it gives her time to think to herself. It is here when she actually realizes her feelings and yearns for him. Of course, when Keitaro returns, again, her lack of self-confidence throws her back into her psychological safe zone to avoid all the romance problems.

I actually like this about Naru's character, namely, because I was in the same place for awhile, differences being gender and reactions from my end, and as a result, I can understand part of her. I too liked somebody when I was younger, but I had a near extreme lack of self-confidence. Every time I was around her, I never acted upon whatever feelings. Our daily conversations mainly consisted of 'Hi', 'See ya', 'Good morning', etc. When asked about it, I retreated back into my psychological safe zone - giving incoherent answers and hiding behind indecisive responses. When I wasn't around her, I realized that I did like her, but again, when around her again, I always went back into the safe zone. It's almost the same for Naru and her feelings for Keitaro, except Naru actually did get the courage to admit to herself, and Keitaro, her feelings.

For Naru, the solution to her problems doesn't mean having to become like Mutsumi - kind, gentle, frail perhaps, etc. Merely, she has to come to terms with herself and gather that bit of courage to do what is needed. There's no way for her to suddenly become Ghandi overnight, but there is a way to realize her feelings and simply go for them. That may reduce her violent behavior, but if so, she would lose her character too much. After that, what would she become - merely, a hot girlfriend/wife?

Those are my beliefs, anyways. I actually like Naru, and I've pretty much explained why. I understand why she does what she does. If Keitaro can be considered to have no spine, then in some way, he and Naru aren't all that different, actually. Keitaro needs to develop some courage to stand up for himself, and Naru needs to develop some courage to admit to herself.[/quote]
Normally, I'd say you have a point... but she's decided to go ahead and MARRY him, which means she has to have come to terms with the situation.

Yet, what does she do first thing in her goddamn WEDDING DAY?

Slug the groom.

I'm sorry, but that single action is so much failure, it redefines the concept of fail. If she can't even control herself on her wedding day, she should've called the whole thintg off and sought therapy. Even by LH standards, hitting the groom in teh day of tyhe wedding is a giant warning signal that the relationship is doomed. End of story.
 

SimmyC

Well-Known Member
#61
If anything, that shows that Naru did NOT grow throughout the series. I mean, when she slugs Keitaro on their Wedding day, what does that tell you? If I go by what you're saying Legacy, than that's telling me that she still refuses to admit to herself her own feelings. This despite the fact that they are about to be married? I don't buy it. If she can't even stop the violence on her wedding day, what makes you think she will afterwards? I'm not saying that she should be "Mutsumi 2", but... the complete lack of any 'development' in this area is why I absolutely dispise Naru compared to even some of the other violent girlfriends in other series. The violence is so ingrained in her that, if Keitaro were to ever lose his immortality, Naru will be behind bars with murder. :no:

And yes, I know the violence is meant for comedy purposes. But what makes Love Hina so fun is the fact that some, keyword SOME, of it is ingrained with reality (I mean, obviously the LEO, ki attacks, Su's Red Moon, Keitaro's immortality, etc. are not. But, Tokyo U's entrence exams, the character's emotions and so forth...:p). This is how we can relate to the characters and so forth. And when you look at Naru, all I see is psychotic bitch that needs to be locked up. :headbanger:
 

runestar

Well-Known Member
#62
Normally, I'd say you have a point... but she's decided to go ahead and MARRY him, which means she has to have come to terms with the situation.

Yet, what does she do first thing in her goddamn WEDDING DAY?

Slug the groom.
I think the author obviously meant it as humour, the slapstick kind aimed at eliciting one last chuckle out of the reader, but if you look at it another way, I agree that it can tell volumes about the cracks in their relationship. ;)

On the other hand, think about the bundle you will save on air fare.... :sisi:
 

Moshulel

Well-Known Member
#63
And when you look at Naru, all I see is psychotic bitch that needs to be locked up. dho.gif
Reffering to the wedding day punch...

What the hell was she expecting that they'll do later on that day?

So what if he was a bit impatient?

(I know he was just clumsy but...)
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#64
Moshulel said:
And when you look at Naru, all I see is psychotic bitch that needs to be locked up. dho.gif
Reffering to the wedding day punch...

What the hell was she expecting that they'll do later on that day?

So what if he was a bit impatient?

(I know he was just clumsy but...)
I question whether Naru even knows how babies are born. :no:
 

runestar

Well-Known Member
#65
I question whether Naru even knows how babies are born.
She might, but her reflexes are another thing altogether - wasn't there this scene in LH14 where she kept walloping Keitaro every time they tried to get intimate?

Maybe they will have to resort to bondage or something... :p
 

SimmyC

Well-Known Member
#66
Which again... questions whether they are even capable of getting intimate. Those reflexes would prevent any attempt of them actually 'getting it on' and actually having a baby. :no:

In other words, Naru needs serious :help: before then.

And I did say that the violence is for comedy purposes. But I also said that, if you take a step back, do you really think it is all that funny for Keitaro to be abused that much? I didn't think so.
 

Terdwilicker

Well-Known Member
#67
Agreed, which is why I wrote my dialogue between them the way I did in GWH Kei over in the lemon section. Btw, chapter 4 is up.
 

Moshulel

Well-Known Member
#68
GenocideHeart said:
Moshulel said:
And when you look at Naru, all I see is psychotic bitch that needs to be locked up. dho.gif
Reffering to the wedding day punch...

What the hell was she expecting that they'll do later on that day?

So what if he was a bit impatient?

(I know he was just clumsy but...)
I question whether Naru even knows how babies are born. :no:
I keep seeing a scene where Keitaro drops his pants and closes in on Naru, who somehow manages to ruin the moment by propelling him into the stratosfere:

"You pervert!"

I can see Akane's reaction as being even worser... :sweat:
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#69
Moshulel said:
I keep seeing a scene where Keitaro drops his pants and closes in on Naru, who somehow manages to ruin the moment by propelling him into the stratosfere:

"You pervert!"

I can see Akane's reaction as being even worser... :sweat:
Akane's reaction: castration. Fact.
 

Moshulel

Well-Known Member
#70
Akane's reaction: castration. Fact.
You know there was a reason why i haven't posted that. :sweat:

You just had to terrorize the forumites... :p

I can see Ranma running away from Akane while she's wielding a butchers knive... :sweat: Maybe that will wake him up.
 

Legacy|iB

Well-Known Member
#73
My idea regarding where they are in the future - I figure, both of them have gotten used to the whole damn thing by then that it's become more of a playful relationship thing. I could be wrong, and more chances than naught, I am, but that's what I'm seeing.

The whole wedding day thing was more comedic than anything else, more for the sake of the manga, since it was the actual end of Love Hina and unless there's some other great way to end it off with a bang, why should you not end it with what made the series so damn popular in the first place - Keitaro being attacked by Naru?

Sake of the story and such aside, her going after Keitaro on their wedding day didn't have the same effect as all the other times she's gone after him. Granted, still a bit on the overreaction side, but she's developed the courage to admit her love, she's gotten over running away, and she geniunely loves Keitaro - I think that's what matters the most. All of that doesn't mean she'll suddenly change her fundemental character in a complete 180. Regardless of what happens, it'll always there. However, it won't be out of spite or anger, and perhaps Naru will reduce the behaviour after a bit. She'll be doing that anyways, I figure, and slowly transitioning to hot sex everyday. At least, we can hope. I doubt she'll accidentally castrate Keitaro. That's what would have happened if they tried to do it three years before they got married. Three years later, after getting married...I think their relationship isn't completely on the impossible side. None of us would be able to survive a relationship like that, but then again, none of us have ever made such a promise at a young age and managed to exist with such extraordinary circumstances.

I'm working off what I can from the manga and from the anime, and that's what I've developed at least. Naru will be Naru. It's much like how most of us change over time - large and specific things about us will change over time, but there's that fundemental layer that will always stick around. For me, it's my obsession with technical details and weapons, for somebody else it will be another trait, and for Naru, it's her willingness to punch something. You can never take that from her, unless you suddenly destroy what makes her who she is.
 

Terdwilicker

Well-Known Member
#74
This is only slightly off topic, but what does Naru study as a major once she gets into Todai? Keitaro is studying archaeology and seems to be pretty good at it. Motoko is a romance novellist. Kitsune moonlights as a journalist, but is running the Teahouse with Haruka by the end of the story. Su is in computer science and robotics, and Shinobu is in culinary arts or will be by the time she enters Todai. What does Naru do besides study? Hopefully someone who's read the manga has the answer.
 

EagleCeres

Well-Known Member
#75
Terdwilicker said:
This is only slightly off topic, but what does Naru study as a major once she gets into Todai? Keitaro is studying archaeology and seems to be pretty good at it. Motoko is a romance novellist. Kitsune moonlights as a journalist, but is running the Teahouse with Haruka by the end of the story. Su is in computer science and robotics, and Shinobu is in culinary arts or will be by the time she enters Todai. What does Naru do besides study? Hopefully someone who's read the manga has the answer.
Motoko went into Law, she writes her super popular smut....er.... romance novels on the side :snigger:
Naru... I'm not sure but I think she went into education, she liked being a sensei at Sasaki Seminar and decided to give it a shot.
Mutsumi, im not sure, but by the time the wedding was to happen she was already working on her masters (cant remember on what tho).
 
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