Nasuverse A random thought...

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#1
Okay, the base of this idea comes from the fact that prana works a LOT like mana in M:tG (including how some living being, like Shirou, have a lot more than they normally should), and as such, one could consider the two to be the same.

Going by that logic, Servants would essentially be creatures with an 'upkeep cost' that must be paid every 'turn' (hence why they constantly drain prana), and the 'cost' varies based on the conditions (if they attacked, etc.).

What this boils down to? Simple - essentially, assuming that the Grail is just one of many similar artifacts in the MtG multiverse - meaning that it can fetch from the Throne of Heroes even beings whose legends are, while well known, *not of this world*.

Cue the Grail Wars going very differently as the various Servants show up in their usual classes - but as Magic: the Gathering legends.

So for example we could have Akroma as Saber, the barbarian legend Kamahl as Berserker, any one magic using Legend as Caster (particularly Chainer, the Dementia summoner), and so on.

This is just a basic skeleton for the idea, and would obviously require a ton of tweaking to work, but it's an idea I'm interested in. Anyone want to comment and/or help?

Discuss.
 

Fatuous One

Well-Known Member
#2
Hm.

Well, just a clarification, but Shirou actually doesn't have much more prana than you'd figure. He has more circuits than one would expect, but having circuits and being able to use them (and thus, having more prana to use) are two different things. Shirou fails in that aspect, although that whether it was due to his faulty training or his lack of skill is debatable.


On the idea itself... Well, actually, that comparison is surprisingly accurate. Servants are spiritual creatures that require prana to stay in a timeline that they don't have a place in so... well, sufficient to say, while not all things fit neatly, not bad. ^^

Something to be aware of: the Throne of Heroes only houses HUMAN heroes (or to be more specific, Eirei are humans, and the ToH only houses Eirei). Half breeds and the like are usually accepted, but anything without human blood in them isn't going to be able to be summoned through that avenue (I believe). HOWEVER... after the third war, spirits that aren't technically Heroic Spirits have been able to be summoned, but they need to have a 'heroic' aspect to them. That may or may not be a problem, but I thought I'd point it out.

To an actual direction I can't really contribute much, since I'm not very familiar with Magic: the Gathering.
 

Epsilon

Well-Known Member
#3
Ooh... me likes.

Plus you have an excuse to use both versions of Akroma when Saber gets tainted by the Grail's black mana to turn into ... Red Saber?!

Phage could possibly make for a good 'Angra' substitute.

When I have some free time, I'll look up the Magic legend index and see who would make good candidates for the seven main classes.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#4
Epsilon said:
Ooh... me likes.

Plus you have an excuse to use both versions of Akroma when Saber gets tainted by the Grail's black mana to turn into ... Red Saber?!

Phage could possibly make for a good 'Angra' substitute.

When I have some free time, I'll look up the Magic legend index and see who would make good candidates for the seven main classes.
I have a small list myself. Here:

SABER:
-Akroma
This would be the White version - the red one uses a spear. Also note that she's technically an Illusion Angel, having been created by Ixidor as a simulacrum of his dead lover, and Illusions can turn into any creature type they want, if only temporarily. Plus, having been part of Karona, she may have retained part of the 'human side' that Zagorka was in Karona.

-Kamahl
In both his green 'Fist of Krosa' and red 'Pit Fighter' version, Kamahl uses a sword. In both cases he's the canon owner of the Mirari sword, which would be a frightfully powerful Noble Phantasm, being essentially a Grail itself.

-Gayrard... er, Gerrard Capashen
WHY you'd want to use the gayest Magic main ever is beyond me, but he's there.

-Most legendary Samurai from Kamigawa
Self explanatory.

-Gabriel Angelfire
Note that Gabriel is a HUMAN, not an angel - but his mother was allegedly one of the desert Bird Maidens, so he has wings like his mother does. He founded the Order of Angelfire, and was known as a ferocious air warrior during the Dark Ages.

CASTER:
-Chainer, Braids, Skellum
All three are Dementia masters, and very good at what they do, which is to cast summoning spells to unleash horrors from deep within their minds.

-Ixidor
Akroma's creator, a Reality Sculptor who mastered the art of illusion and shapeshifting. Could be a major mindfuck if Akroma somehow got memories of her master, and was opposed to him.

-Arcanis the Omnipotent
Not sure about his backstory, but he was powerful enough to tear the veil between different realities.

-Savra, Szadek
Two of the more magic oriented Guildmasters of Ravnica. Savra is part Dark Elf, while Szadek is a vampire, though.

-Latulla
The Keldon overseer from Prophecy specialized in destructive magic - she was a walking Fireball.

-Heidar
The Rimewind master who engineered the artificial Ice Age that enveloped terisiare and all of Dominaria during the Coldsnap events.

LANCER:
-Akroma
Red version, the Angel of Fury. Not as cheesy as the original white (who would make Heracles blush as far as being hard to kill goes), but still plenty tough.

-Jerrard of the Closed Fist
A VERY ancient Legend who supposedly founded Pendelhaven, one of the few places where people of all races could live in harmony.

-Tivadar of Thorn
An ancient Dark Ages warrior who started a crusade to exterminate goblins before the Sarpadian era. He was equally proficient with all weapons, but had a predilection for the spear - better to skewer a goblin carcass with, he said. :sweat2:

ARCHER:
-Tor Wauki
The "Bandit King" of legend, said to be able to shoot an airborne dragon in the eye from two hundred paces away.

-Taaveti of Kelsinko
An Elvish ranger known throughout Terisiare as one of the bravest explorers in Dominaria. Killed by Heidar during the Rimewind cold wave.

-Lady Caleria
A Femeref lady archer from the Legends expansion. Credited with founding the Granger guild.

-Tolsimir Wolfblood
An Elvish champion of the Selesnyia guild, always seen riding his faithful companion, the giant grey wolf Woja. As a Silhana bow master, he was so skilled, it was said he took aim using maps.

RIDER:
-Tolsimir Wolfblood
Since he rode the giant wolf Woja, he counts as Rider too.

-Sivitri Scarzam
One of the most feared figures of the Dark Ages, she was a savage woman who had tamed a dragon to be her steed, and who often would clash with Sol'Kanar the Swamp King, an elemental corrupted into the form of a demon living in a remote Corondor swamp.

-Arna Kennerud
A Skycaptain of Kjeldor, who rode a giant birdlike creature called an AEsthir. He was legendary throughout the Ice Age for being a peerless warrior with no fear, often engaging even overwhelmingly stronger opponents for the glory of Kjeldor.

-Darien
The King of Kjeldor, who unified Terisiare after the Ice Age ended. He was a brave king who'd always ride in the front of his army, unmindful of personal danger, and would rally his men and raise morale, helping them stand firm in the face of danger.

-MÓrton Stromgald
Leader of the Stromgald Knights. Said to be a fierce warrior whose sheer ferocity in battle made even the bravest warrior pause before engaging him.

BERSERKER:
-Kamahl
While under the Mirari's influence, he was known for violent fits of rage during which he'd randomly attack and kill anyone who strayed too close. Fits both berserker and Saber.

-Lovisa Coldeyes
While she was a sharp and calculating woman when it came to devising battle strategies, Lovisa was also infamous for becoming entangled in a terrifying battle frenzy when she engaged Orcs, whom she hated especially. The fact she could swing a two-handed battleaxe with just one hand during those bouts of blood frenzy only added to her legendary status, and she's still talked of in the Terisiare area by the few survivors among the barbarians after the Time Spiral incident.

-Marhault Elsdragon
An Elf Berserker. Rather rare, since his race isn't known for going into frenzied rages.

-Radha
A half-Elf, half-Keldon Skyshroud denizen. While her features are elven, her temper is undeniably keldon, and it can be summed up in 'endless rage'.

-Sek'kuar
An Orc shaman who was so violent and cruel, he once burned all his followers in a giant funeral pyre in a fit of rage. He was also so feared, his followers rose again to serve him after death.

-Crovax of Urborg
His fits of rage are well documented throughout the Stronghold expansion. This Urborg nobleman would grow stronger if angered, though, to the point that he could match or exceed a Hill Giant's strength. Particularly impressive is the time when he grew so enraged at a shapeshifter mimicking Sisay that he tore it apart with his bare hands in an uncontrollable bout of berserker fury. Even his comrades were scared of him after that.

-Maraxus of Keld
A Keldon Warlord. To a Keldon, being a berserker is a fact of life. Nuff said.

-Borborygmos
A Cyclops, and the Gruul guild headmaster... if you can call it that. The Gruul live by one rule: Might makes right. By that rule alone, Borborygmos was chosen as leader, but he's more of a 'Crush them!' type than a leader.

ASSASSIN:
(Note: finding Assassin Legends in Magic is hard, as those individuals tend to, well... not advertise their ability. As such, I'm only looking at cards with a 'kill this or that creature' effect.)
-Phage the Untouchable
Her mere touch killed, and she was particularly fond of slowly torturing her enemies to death... nuff said.

-Visara the Dreadful
First off, she's a Gorgon, so she falls in the same category as Rider. Secondly, unlike Rider, she killed by trade, being a pit fighter, and wasn't shy about murdering opponents before a match even began.

-Gwendlyn di Corci
The only one who can be considered a true assassin in the whole lot, an ancient Urborg noblewoman who became infamous in history for seducing her enemies and then gutting them when they had, literally, their pants down. She apparently believed in the adage 'if you want something done well, do it yourself'.

That's... about it for now.
 

Epsilon

Well-Known Member
#5
Nice list but will you stick closely to legend cards only or will you allow some other creatures to make a run?

I mean, nothing screams assassin better than something like Royal Assassin. :D
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#6
Epsilon said:
Nice list but will you stick closely to legend cards only or will you allow some other creatures to make a run?

I mean, nothing screams assassin better than something like Royal Assassin. :D
The way the Grail works pretty much limits it to Legends, I'm afraid. That and Legendary Artifacts, I guess.
 

Shikaze

Well-Known Member
#7
Totally offtopic, but I just realized that the way your avatar pic is done, it looks like she's getting groped by mechanical hands..... :sweat2:

And who say you can't name a Royal Assassin ? I agree that if you want to go Assassin, any M:tG player would answer you that this is the one to use.
 

grant

Well-Known Member
#8
Kiku would also be a good choice for assasin. Also, please mention all legends as not everyone plays every expansion. Case in point I assume that you mean Toshiro Umezawa when you mean most legendary samurai.
Jaya Ballard is another possibility for Caster, what with so many spells named after her.
And to all who have no idea who these individuals are, either go to magicthegathering.com, click on the Gatherer link in the upper right hand corner, and type any of the names into the search engine, the rules are very confusing but you should be able to get an idea of the characters flavor, or try to wiki it.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#9
Shikaze said:
Totally offtopic, but I just realized that the way your avatar pic is done, it looks like she's getting groped by mechanical hands..... :sweat2:

And who say you can't name a Royal Assassin ? I agree that if you want to go Assassin, any M:tG player would answer you that this is the one to use.
Yeah, I noticed that too. I think OniGanon did it on purpose. :p

As for the Royal Assassin, well, you could always pick Nekrataal too. It works (Nekrataal instantly kills a nonblack, nonartifact creature as soon as it hits the board), and Nekrataal is a weird enough creature name to make it pass as an actual name.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#10
grant said:
Kiku would also be a good choice for assasin. Also, please mention all legends as not everyone plays every expansion. Case in point I assume that you mean Toshiro Umezawa when you mean most legendary samurai.
Jaya Ballard is another possibility for Caster, what with so many spells named after her.
And to all who have no idea who these individuals are, either go to magicthegathering.com, click on the Gatherer link in the upper right hand corner, and type any of the names into the search engine, the rules are very confusing but you should be able to get an idea of the characters flavor, or try to wiki it.
Well, there's a ton of legends that would work as Caster, to be fair.

Besides Jaya Ballard, there's Braids (in both her black Cabal Minion and blue Conjurer Adept incarnation), all the Spellshapers from Prophecy (Mageta, Alexi, Jolrael, Greel and Latulla), Orim from the Weatherlight (although she specializes specifically in healing magic), Mishra in his Time Spiral's Artificer Prodigy version (which can conjure artifacts from thin air), Tocasia in his Planar Chaos version (where he's an elementalist), the Cabal Patriarch himself, Niv-Mizzet from Ravnica, Nicol Bolas the Elder Dragon... the list goes on.

As for the samurai, I don't just mean Toshiro. He's just the most notorious one from kamigawa, but there's so MANY samurai from kamigawa it's not funny. Offhand:

Nagao, Bound by Honor
Kenzo the Hardhearted
The Brothers Yamazaki
Toshiro Umezawa
Sensei Golden Tail
Iizuka the Ruthless
Isao, Enlightened Bushi
Fumiko the Lowblood
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo

And that's just a spur of the moment list. It could go on and on and on...

Also, for Assassin, any of the legendary Ninja from Kamigawa can count. Higure and Ink-Eyes in particular.
 

Epsilon

Well-Known Member
#11
GenocideHeart said:
Epsilon said:
Nice list but will you stick closely to legend cards only or will you allow some other creatures to make a run?

I mean, nothing screams assassin better than something like Royal Assassin. :D
The way the Grail works pretty much limits it to Legends, I'm afraid. That and Legendary Artifacts, I guess.
Really? In the fourth Holy Grail War (Fate Zero), Black Knight was summoned as a Berserker class servant so this should imply some other things.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#12
Epsilon said:
Really? In the fourth Holy Grail War (Fate Zero), Black Knight was summoned as a Berserker class servant so this should imply some other things.
The Black Knight has an estabilished legend around the title (he was Mordred in most Arcturian tales, FYI). On the other hand, while the Order of the Royal Assassins is indeed legendary in Magic, not a single one of them has achieved legendary status, meaning that it's a legend regarding a GROUP of people, and I highly doubt the Grail would allow a Servant to be represented by a few HUNDRED people. -_-

The Royal Assassins are infamous, yes. They are also nameless, faceless and voiceless. No one has ever seen one - no one ALIVE, at any rate. If you see a Royal Assassin, you are already dead - you just don't know it yet.

For that reason, legends revolving around ONE Royal Assassin could not build in time. It was always the order as a whole that was feared.

Simply put, they are too generic. Cool as hell, but generic - there's a reason why not a single Royal Assassin in 10 years of Magic was ever named.

Besides, there's at least one legendary assassin in Magic - the aforementioned Kiku, Night's Flower. She was an infamous hired killer from the Takenuma swamp, who gained fame for leaving a flower on the scene of her murders. She was also famous for never touching her victims - instead, the victim's own shadow materialized and killed them under her control.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#13
GenocideHeart said:
On the other hand, while the Order of the Royal Assassins is indeed legendary in Magic, not a single one of them has achieved legendary status, meaning that it's a legend regarding a GROUP of people, and I highly doubt the Grail would allow a Servant to be represented by a few HUNDRED people. -_-
I'm not entirely certain, but this may be proven false by the Assassin class itself. The Hassans were seldom known by name, but their abilities spoke for themselves well enough. IIRC, the only one whose name was actually known was the founder of the organization.

At the same time, though, that might be why the Assassin class is inherently weaker than the other Servant classes - their individual identity is obscured. This makes them ideal for killing Masters, but less effective against other Servants.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#14
toraneko said:
GenocideHeart said:
On the other hand, while the Order of the Royal Assassins is indeed legendary in Magic, not a single one of them has achieved legendary status, meaning that it's a legend regarding a GROUP of people, and I highly doubt the Grail would allow a Servant to be represented by a few HUNDRED people.? -_-
I'm not entirely certain, but this may be proven false by the Assassin class itself. The Hassans were seldom known by name, but their abilities spoke for themselves well enough. IIRC, the only one whose name was actually known was the founder of the organization.

At the same time, though, that might be why the Assassin class is inherently weaker than the other Servant classes - their individual identity is obscured. This makes them ideal for killing Masters, but less effective against other Servants.
Good point... but I suspect the only one who can clear that up is F1. He's the resident Fate expert, after all... :snigger:
 

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#15
GenocideHeart said:
toraneko said:
GenocideHeart said:
On the other hand, while the Order of the Royal Assassins is indeed legendary in Magic, not a single one of them has achieved legendary status, meaning that it's a legend regarding a GROUP of people, and I highly doubt the Grail would allow a Servant to be represented by a few HUNDRED people.? -_-
I'm not entirely certain, but this may be proven false by the Assassin class itself. The Hassans were seldom known by name, but their abilities spoke for themselves well enough. IIRC, the only one whose name was actually known was the founder of the organization.

At the same time, though, that might be why the Assassin class is inherently weaker than the other Servant classes - their individual identity is obscured. This makes them ideal for killing Masters, but less effective against other Servants.
Good point... but I suspect the only one who can clear that up is F1. He's the resident Fate expert, after all... :snigger:
Heh, what I would give for Arai to show up here. :lol:
 
Top