Nasuverse A world of Dust and Blades, F/SN X RWBY

#1
Crossover: F/SN x RWBY

The idea is that Shirou (from the end of UBW) is transferred into the world of remnant when he decides to sacrifice himself to kill Gilgamesh. He pushes both of them into the void created by the grail and as a result they are transferred to the world of remnant (I haven't decided on the exact mechanics of how it's done).

Shirou will wake up in a forest and stumble upon a group of 3rd years at beacon, after few chapters he will join the academy as a 1st year together with the rest of RWBY's cast (and perhaps with an OC).
Shirou will retain his magecraft (although it might be weakened due to being slightly corrupted by AM) but he will not be able to use Aura, he can't manifest his soul that way. Even if he could he wouldn't posses the same amount of energy RWBY characters have.

Now, I'm going to write this fic (probably) so I would like you to give me some input about my ideas.

Few questions:
  1. What do you think about the idea? is it good or should I change something?
    
  2. Who do you think Shirou should replace? It's possible for him to be in a new team, but focusing on 3 teams will be hard. And if I will choose to include an OC that he will meet in the time before the start of the 'school year' that means we need to replace 2 of the main cast (maybe Ren and Nora?)
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  3. Should Gilgamesh survive? I think it would be interesting to see how he acts in a world which he approves. It is a world where humanity desperately fights for it's survival and the people are much stronger than our modern world, he probably won't want to kill everyone since in FSN his motive was to kill most of the population so that those who remain will be stronger and worthy to be ruled under him.
    If he survive he will not be an antagonist (otherwise the story will end very quickly). He will be one of the "good guys", and in a very high position of power due to his Charisma and Golden rule (de facto ruler of one of the kingdoms maybe).
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  4. What do you think about the idea that remnant is a future version of the nasuverse that was created by the calamity that happened when Angra Mainyu birthed?
    So far it makes sense from RWBY perspective. it doesn't look like they know much about their history before the discovery of dust. Mostly that humanity almost got extinct. (IIRC there is actually a fic that uses a same method to explain a crossover between FSN and Attack on titan)
  5. What should be the name of the fic? I think "A world of Dust and blades" sounds good, do you have a better suggestion?

And there won't be a harem, Shirou will eventually move on and fall in love with someone else (possibly Blake/Yang/Neptune*). I hate the kind of fics in which the protagonist never decide to enter a relationship with someone (despite the other side being interested).

So, what do you think?

*joking
 

Garahs

Well-Known Member
#2
1. Execution is really the only thing that matters, so don't suck. :) Though get rid of that weakening Shirou. There's no reason for it.

2. What purpose does this NPC serve that can't be fulfilled by existing characters? I personally wouldn't mind seeing John go, because his character irritates me after the reveal of how he got in and reaction to being offered help.

Alternatively, Shirou's team could always be off screen for one reason or another. Mad science experiment got loose, separated from the group, practice, exterminating pet dust bunny?

3. Sure, and he hijacks that terrorist organization for his own selfish goals. :)

4. Personally, I think it should be a different world would be better. Otherwise, there's no reason Shirou can't learn to use his aura.

5. Academy Sword?
 
#3
1. I'll do my best :). I thought about weakening Shirou makes sense because even without aura, spamming noble phantasms is (so far) an unmatched ability in this universe. Besides, there is no way someone could go into Angra Mainyu (the corrupted grail) without some kind of consequences (usually dying)

2. Well, it mostly because I don't want to replace Jaune. From team JNPR only Jaune and Pyrrha has personalities (despite Nora being fun she hasn't added anything to the story so far). John is the leader of the group, something which I'm not sure Shirou is very good at doing (his leadership skills so far has been "a girl shouldn't fight" and then he got himself cleaved in half by Berserker...).
Since Nora and Ren are tightly connected, I thought it would sense to replace both of them if I want Shirou to be on a team with Jaune and Pyrrha. So we need another character to join the team.
If Jaune ends up being in this fic I'll do my best to make him less irritating (and less of a comic relief character).

4. The main reason I am not sure about using this method is because the holy grail doesn't work that way (it's simply provides limitless (corrupted) mana, without a clear 'wish' to go to another universe and the knowledge of how to go there it can't really do that).
So doing that will break the nasuverse rules a bit, so I'm not sure whats the best idea.

5. Hmmm... I don't think Academy Sword sounds good enough, and it's not like the world of RWBY revolves around Beacon (the current plot is about Torchwick and the white fang).

Thank you for the suggestions, I just made this thread to hear other people's opinions about my ideas and you certainly gave me a lot to think about.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#7
Lessee...

Backstory
Overcount 1999

Particles from space called "Grain" enter the atmosphere and precipitate the "Death of the World", in a literal sense; the Gaia-organism died.

However, using cybernetic implants and genetic engineering, transhumans called "A-Rays" were capable of living on past the end of the world; even though the ecosystem collapsed and the sky turned red, civilization continued.

It was even possible to install the capacity to breathe in and exploit the "Grain", producing the superpowerful "Ether Liners."

--That's the backstory of Nasu's "Angel Notes" story.

My suggestion is play with the expectations of the Nasuverse fandom by hybridizing "Angel Notes" into the backstory; eg, RWBY is set in an "alternate future" where that apocalypse went down differently, that is to say, somehow the Gaia survived; "Grain" and "Dust" are the same thing, but the world that they're bombarding responded differently.

Of course since he's a "baseline" human instead of one of these transhumans, Shirou is incapable of metabolizing Grain Dust; it might even be poisonous to him...?

Power Levels
Don't even try to handicap Shirou so he's "nicely balanced" with the other characters. Maybe getting dipped in Premium Grail Juice would debuff his powers (I doubt it...?), but don't set out to nerf a character so they "fit in" with a crossover.

Instead, make the drama occur from
1) The characters not agreeing on "right", so they argue, but don't actually get in deathmatches,
2) everyone is trying to manipulate Captain OP into joining their team.

Of course Gilgamesh should still be alive.

However, there are options.
1) You could do it like Shirou and Gil are punching each other out, tumble through the Dark Wormhole, keep punching each other while splashing around in Grail Juice (Gil's still at a disadvantage 'coz his arm got chopped off), get dumped on the ground and roll to their feet and keep punching each other until Gil falls over dead.

Shirou kicks Gil's corpse for good measure, then looks up. He's in a forest clearing (it was regular forest until the Grail Juice that came with them melted a hole in the trees), he looks up and says, "Right. I have no idea where I am."

2) If I wanted to included Gil and his magnificent hamminess, I'd have them get separated while they were spinning around in the Grail Juice as they got flushed down the Dark Wormhole, and then when they got dumped out they were in completely different places.

I'd follow the two of them with different threads, have Gilgamesh be the one that gets picked up by Team RWBY, and then the threads get reunited when they both finally happen to see each other across the town square and immediately go back to Death Matching without saying anything else. Naturally Team RWBY moves to support their new... "friend" might be a little strong, maybe?

Wait, I forgot someone.

Avenger
Let's talk about Player 3!

In F/HA, the human that was designated as "Angra Mainyu" and sacrificed, that was summoned into the extra Class of Avenger -- his Wish was to be born into the world and live a normal life. In that game, he used "Shirou" as a template to live normally.

If you really want to have a story about Shirou hanging out with Team RWBY or something, but you want to nerf him, then--

You can have "Shirou" join, but it's not Shirou. Instead, a simulacrum that the Grail made out of Grail Juice as a shadowy body for "Avenger" to use and live out that "normal life", as a "normal student."

Then Real Shirou shows up.

Actually I'd probably do that multi-threading thing and mix that with Gil option (1) up there; maybe tease the audience for a bit with two diverging story threads that are clearly both starring Shirou. A mystery! Explained to the fans when the only NP that "Shirou" can Trace is the "Verg Avesta".

Well, Shirou probably would have zero problems with "Shirou" living out a normal life, so he might be the only one basically a-okay with the whole scenario.

Probably I'd have "Shirou" add "Dust Metabolism" to himself (or have it added to him medically during the story), and then use his inferior copy of Unlimited Blade Works to connect to "the World" and scrape it together into a sword. "If you cannot win, imagine something that can"... that is the kind of power "Shirou" would develop.

And then he changes his name to Ado Edem and wins all the battles, forever.



itaywex said:
So far it makes sense from RWBY perspective. it doesn't look like they know much about their history before the discovery of dust. Mostly that humanity almost got extinct. (IIRC there is actually a fic that uses a same method to explain a crossover between FSN and Attack on titan)
Yeah, but that asshole apparently abandoned it.
 
#8
daniel_gudman said:
Thank you for your suggestions, the dust = grain is a good idea. I thought about making Shirou suffer from corruption a bit because it would be weird if nothing happened to him after a contact with the grail (although, if the grail uses him as a core he might be fine... Illya and Shinji survived).

Actually, when you think about power levels, Shirou isn't that strong. While he probably has the highest burst damage of anyone in remnant his mana capacity makes it impossible for him to sustain his DPS over a long time.
While he will be very strong compared to the rest of the cast, he has some limitations (also most of the fighters we have seen so far are in their 1st year. They really needs to show us Ozpin fight)

Finally someone approves of my plans to have Gil in this fic (the guys in Beast's Lair didn't like it -_-).
But if he does join the cast I don't think putting him in any of the teams is a good idea (he would end up killing Weiss, Nora and Jaune because they annoy him. And if he doesn't than every fight with the Grimm will end up before it even started). I would think that instead of joining an academy that trains hunters (why would he need training?) he would get to a position of power within the kingdom (at least on the level of Ozpin).

And yeah, I am planning on having try to kill each other the moment they meet. Which will surprise everyone else (since to them, both Gil and Shirou are heroes).

I'm not so sure about Avenger, I haven't played F/HA so I always think of him as "all the evils in the world"

But another question, who do you think are the most redundant characters in teams RWBY and JNPR? (I think Nora and Ren, they really only did things for comic relief and combat). Since if I want Shirou (or Gilgamesh, lol) to join the teams, someone has to go.

Anyway, I am already working on an outline for the story and a list of OC's I'm going to use.

daniel_gudman said:
itaywex said:
So far it makes sense from RWBY perspective. it doesn't look like they know much about their history before the discovery of dust. Mostly that humanity almost got extinct. (IIRC there is actually a fic that uses a same method to explain a crossover between FSN and Attack on titan)
Yeah, but that asshole apparently abandoned it.
Ha ha, I see what you did there.

Btw, FRO is awesome (not that you need me to tell you that).
 

Nephirin

Well-Known Member
#9
daniel_gudman said:
Actually I'd probably do that multi-threading thing and mix that with Gil option (1) up there; maybe tease the audience for a bit with two diverging story threads that are clearly both starring Shirou. A mystery! Explained to the fans when the only NP that "Shirou" can Trace is the "Verg Avesta".
Really liked that idea, but it's worth noting that "Shirou" in H/A has all of Shirou's powerset. He traces Rho Aius against Archer. It's worth noting that instead of Kanshou and Bakuya he traces Tawrich and Zarich, Avenger's weapons, at one point. He remarks that he must have "high compatibility" with them because of how effectively he's fighting. While Avenger has "Verg Avesta," I doubt "Shirou" would be able to trace it, since it's not a weapon, it's a curse of shared pain.

itaywex said:
Thank you for your suggestions, the dust = grain is a good idea. I thought about making Shirou suffer from corruption a bit because it would be weird if nothing happened to him after a contact with the grail (although, if the grail uses him as a core he might be fine... Illya and Shinji survived).
Uh, Shirou manages fine after contact with the grail in Fate. Yeah, he had Avalon, but he broke out on his own the first time. I'm not sure why you think being a core for the grail would somehow be better than simply being in contact with it.

itaywex said:
I'm not so sure about Avenger, I haven't played F/HA so I always think of him as "all the evils in the world"
Should play, F/HA, it's pretty good and the 100% patch just came out recently. That said, "Angra Mainyu" is a "Void" in terms of personality. He's a 0. It's why he has to imitate Emiya Shirou during HA, because he isn't his own personality. 0+1 is 1, so he more less just becomes Emiya Shirou during those four days. There's even a scene in the Epilogue where Bazett and Caren dress Shirou up as "Avenger" and have him talk a bit more "villainous" and are amazed at how similar they are. Well, it's a little bit complicated.
 
#10
Hmmmm... As far as I know the reason Avenger is capable of acting as Shirou is because of the time loop (the real Shirou doesn't appear in F/HA until the epilogue, at least according to TMWiki) so they can't really exist together. Besides, what's the point of adding Avenger to this fic if all he does is imitate Shirou?

I think that I'll get rid of Ren and Nora, RWBY will stay as it is and JNPR will become JSPC. C means an OC... get it?
nah, it means Claire.
Now, anyone has a good word that that can fit with JSPC/JPSC/JCPS/any other combination (like RWBY = ruby, JNPR = juniper, CRDL = cardinal)?
 

Nephirin

Well-Known Member
#11
itaywex said:
Hmmmm... As far as I know the reason Avenger is capable of acting as Shirou is because of the time loop (the real Shirou doesn't appear in F/HA until the epilogue, at least according to TMWiki) so they can't really exist together. Besides, what's the point of adding Avenger to this fic if all he does is imitate Shirou?
More or less. The four day cycle resulted as part of the contract with Bazett to "keep her alive." It is a reproduction of the Grail War. Angra Mainyu is the actor in place of "Emiya Shirou" during the daytime, largely because of his own desire to experience things. At the same time, Shirou will not lose anything after the four days ends. 0+1 is still 1.

As to the point, that's up to you, I suppose.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#12
So what's the "theme", "moral", or generally the "point" of this story? What is it about, not in the sense of what events happen, but in the sense of what those events mean?



itaywex said:
I'm not so sure about Avenger, I haven't played F/HA so I always think of him as "all the evils in the world"
During the 3rd Grail War, it was Team Einzbern that was eliminated first. They didn't like that, so they decided to cheat: they created an extra "Eighth Class" called "Avenger" and made to just make it totally OP so they'd win. The requirement for "Avenger" is something like, "being the god of evil."

However, what they got was a little disappointing.

1,000 years ago, a village in central Eurasia designated a boy child as "Angra Mainyu". They ritualistically blamed him for everything that went wrong and everything that happened, all the way until he was used up as a human sacrifice.

So because that wraith qualifed as a "god of evil", he was summoned into the class of "Avenger" because he was "Angra Mainyu." His wish was simply to be reborn and live a normal human life, ie, not be a living sacrifice.

He was the second or third Servant eliminated.

However... since "God of Evil" is a human idea, and he was designated as "Angra Mainyu", when he was pulled into the Grail, the actual, real, full-blown screaming mass of curses that was the "real" Angra Mainyu was also added to the Grail.

That's how the Grail was contaminated.

Anyway, when Gil was doused in Grail Juice during the 4th War, it turned his phantasmal form into a real flesh-and-blood body; in short, he stopped being a "Servant" and became something more like an "unnatural human." (He also claimed that the reason it didn't drive him completely insane like everyone kindof expected was because that's how amazing Gilgamesh is). Well, Kirei was a normal human that got splashed a little bit, and died 10 years later of curse-mediated organ failure. Meanwhile, Shirou was completely submerged in the Grail in Fate route, but he popped right back out so he could clock Kotomine; it appears that getting cursed by the Grail is based on a Will save, not a Fort save.

Since they were swirling around in Grail Juice, rather than Avenger using Shirou as a "host", you could say that Shirou was used as a "template" or "mold" for the Grail to create a flesh-body for Avenger. Basically, you could swing whatever you wanted to do, practically.



itaywex said:
Besides, what's the point of adding Avenger to this fic if all he does is imitate Shirou?
Well, it allows you to give Avenger, as not!Shirou, whatever power-level is exactly correct for a "normal life" because that's part of his wish....

Well, fundamentally, though, that's a way to add Shirou to the "cast" while allowing you to make his power level whatever you "need" it to be.

Doing so, however, means that Avenger's whole plot is about "identity," so that might be somewhere the rest of the story goes.

So I guess the thing is, whether you include "Avenger" depends on if you want to also follow Shirou doing the 'Wandering Ally of Justice' thing for a while or something.


Magical Girl Kaleido-Ruby
So, will Rin crash through the wall waving her prototype Jewel Sword around, to drag her boyfriend back with her?
 
#13
daniel_gudman said:
So what's the "theme", "moral", or generally the "point" of this story? What is it about, not in the sense of what events happen, but in the sense of what those events mean?
Hmmm... I think the "Struggle of humanity" can be said as the "theme" of my fic.
RWBY is a world where humanity has pretty much 4 safe havens, despite not seeing it in the show there are many people fighting daily to protect the peaceful life of the people of Vale (we haven't seen any of it, but the narration tells us that until not so long ago humanity was on the brink of extinction).

My story is definitely going to be more grim/serious than RWBY, characters will die (not on the level of Game of thrones lol) and when fighting they will receive injuries (so far only Jaune got some scratches when he fought an ursa), fights are not going to be something most of the characters/readers will want to have (because unlike canon, people do get hurt).
A part of it is that both Shirou and Gilgamesh got what they wished for, Shirou can save many people now (same case as with "Rejoice, boy. Your wish shall be granted") and Gilgamesh got exactly what he wanted. Shirou will have a hard time understanding his feelings and his goal in this new world.

In the story the 1st year students of beacon will have to do their duties before they are officially "ready" (I.E. graduated). Both dealing with internal struggles between humans and fighting the Grimm (who are getting more and more aggressive).
We will see how characters deals with the fact that they don't have a clear goal or a winning condition. It's simply a war of survival.

Another part of the story will be about racism and accepting other people. Shirou will have to face enemies that hate him simply because he is from the same race that oppresses them.

That's what my story is about, it's not about defeating an enemy. It will be a story about how to survive, both against a strong enemy and against internal conflicts.

daniel_gudman said:
Magical Girl Kaleido-Ruby
So, will Rin crash through the wall waving her prototype Jewel Sword around, to drag her boyfriend back with her?
No. I am planning on making the RWBY world a future of the universe (like an AU to angels notes) so Rin is long dead by this point.
I am thinking of making a chapter in which Shirou digs a bit into the legends of remnant and finds the legend that inspired the huntsman "teams system".
Which would basically be a team of Rin, Archer, Saber and Aoko. That will be the definitive proof for him that he is not in another dimension.

I'll post my planning for the story here so you guys can give me some feedback.
 
#14
Plans

These are the current plans for the fic, for those of you who will actually read all of it, please- tell me what you think.
Bear in mind that nothing has been written yet, so if you have a good idea that contradicts what I already plan than you should still tell me about it.

Also, I am not a very organized... Anyway those are my plans for the first 2 arcs and ideas for some arcs after them (has 16 chapters planned which is almost the entire 2 arcs).

General Stuff:
  1. Gilgamesh is alive, he will not be an antagonist and won’t fight the Grim directly (in the one scene he will get to fight, he will show exactly what kind of lesson he got from being defeated by Shirou).
  2. At the first Shirou will have amnesia from the shock of being inside the grail for so long and suddenly being free (maybe during his time inside his mind absorbed some of the information going through AM, which means he will have tons of memory fragments of things that happened all around the world, hurting his sense of self).
    He will gain back his memory through the first 4 chapters.
  3. At first Shirou will be very reluctant to show his magecraft, mostly because of habit. Later he will claim that his semblance is “Blades” and will show the ability to create non-magical weapons.
    Eventually he will find himself in a situation in which he is forced to use a Noble Phantasm, and naturally people will ask questions.
  4. During their time inside the grail Gilgamesh managed to survive by being connected to the core of the grail (codename “Shirou”) with Enkidu. When he leaves he has to abandon it inside since the grail wasn’t weak to let someone extract it’s core from itself (maybe he got out few years before Shirou?)
    Which means Shirou will have Enkidu when he gets out (which will be his secondary weapon).

Arc 1: Forgotten Blade

Chapter 0 - Heavens Fall: Shirou jumps into the grail with Gilgamesh and wakes up after XXXX years in remnant with amnesia and Enkidu wrapped around his arm. he stumbles into a fight between 3rd years at beacon some Grimm.
Ends when Lily aims her crossbow at him and asks who he is “I am… Emiya Shirou… Why do you have wolf ears?” (until that point don’t say his name in the story, use ‘the boy/redhead/he’)

Chapter 1 - Forest of Grimm, part 1: Shirou has hard time remembering and talking. The 3rd years tell Shirou about the world, dust and Grimm. Lily tries to heal his left arm (which is corrupted by AM) and fails. A group of Grimm attacks them and he sees the huntsman-in-training in action.
Then a death stalker appears

Chapter 2 - Forest of Grimm, part 2:
The 3rd years fight the deathstalker and Shirou regains a part of his memory when he is forced to project to defend himself (the 3rd years knows that Shirou can create swords).
They set up a camp and decides to abort the mission to return to Vale with Shirou.
Chapter ends when Shirou is brought to Vale.

Chapter 3 - Glinda is not amused:
In the week it took them to go back to Vale Shirou began feeling better and regained his memories (his arm is still corrupted).
They return to Vale and the 3rd years report to Glinda, she is not amused. But Claire insists that what they aborting the mission was the right choice. Brad backs her up ("In a real mission we need to use our own judgement, and we decided that passing a test is less important than saving a life").
Shirou repays them (or rather, beacon) by working at the academy as an assistant/Janitor/Maintenance man.
(time skip) One day, just outside of the city he meets a mysterious bow-wielding girl that is practicing her bow technique.

Chapter 4 - Girls are dangerous.
He watches Claire train for some time before she assaults him and demands to know why he is spying on her, she gets agitated when he tries to help her improve her technique.
She demands to fight him in a duel, but he refuses and says something like “I don’t really want to fight a girl” which makes her chase him.
Shirou goes back to beacon and asks Ozpin to let him join the academy as a huntsman in training, Ozpin is a little hesitant at first, but he decides to let Shirou attempt to enter by going to the entry tests.
At his advice Shirou goes to a friend of Ozpin that is capable of making weapons

Intermission - Banquet
The ruling council is holding a party to welcome it’s newest member, a golden man with a robotic arm and red eyes.
(maybe add a character, Selena, who is part of the ruling council and will be the POV during Gil’s intermissions?)

Chapter 5 - Preparing to the test
Starts with Shirou fighting Claire and flashbacks to how he got his sword.
Claire will develop a level of rivalry with Shirou.
They will sit and talk about themselves, and she will notice something is wrong with Shirou (Claire’s POV?)
They will go to Beacon and Ozpin/some other professor will talk speak to the other candidates about the Exam they must pass

Chapter 6 - Exam: part 1
Blake and Yang are also taking their tests.
Tests (use all/part of them):
Fight a robotic Grimm (score = how fast/precise/efficient was the killing blow)
Dodge/deflect ranged attack (score = how fast/how much aura left)
Destroying some kind of construct - which tests attack power. The construct will probably be made of earth using earth element dust (score = the method you used/how much energy did it take/how fast)
Custom tests for people with unique abilities - from the main characters only Weiss will take this kind of test.

Chapter 7 - Break between exams
Shirou and Claire takes a break and meets Yang and Nora/Ren.
Some antics ensues.

Chapter 8 - Exam: part 2
Only those who got good grades in the first Exam will be in this one (naturally all main characters got high enough grades, someone should say that there are less candidates than before)
Tests:
Obstacle course/Race, Shirou and Weiss are competing in getting first, Shirou uses structural grasp to avoid traps. They will be told that whoever gets first will get a much higher score, Shirou warns Weiss when she is about to step on a trap (Score = how fast/efficiency/aura remaining)
Kilia and Lily watches the exam from afar and thinks it’s weird Shirou is not creating swords (making his ability a secret)
Shirou, Claire, Weiss and Yang talk after the exam. Weiss is angry at Shirou, Claire agrees and Yang thinks he is cute.

Intermission - Things that should stay unknown
Shirou goes to the library and does some research into the past, into the legends of Remnant.
He finally understands the gravity of the situation, and wonders what he should do now.
Kilia and Lily go into the library and confronts Shirou about not using his abilities in the exam.
After they leave he finds a legend about “the original team”, which is composed of Archer, Saber, Rin and Aoko.

Arc 2: Huntsman in training

Chapter 9 - Ruby Rose
Ruby is introduced, they all start the school year in beacon. They talk about the initiation and Shirou gives them some info about it (he worked in beacon so he knows how things work).
Jaune joins in on their strategy meeting, they meet Pyrrha before they reach the edge of the emerald forest.
maybe have the initiation go differently than Shirou expects? (maybe he got his information from the 4th year huntsmen-in-training and beacon changed the way they get into the emerald forest?)

Chapter 10 - The first step
The initiation starts, everyone uses their landing strategy (except Jaune, who uses Pyrrha), Claire uses the energy thread between her 2 swords to use it as a whip to land (catches the tree with her pseudo whip and swings on it like what Ruby did)
Shirou uses Enkidu, but it’s offscreen to leave it as a mystery.
(Maybe have him hope that no one saw his landing strategy because it would be problematic)
Shirou meets Ruby and Weiss (“You know, if you really wanted to save me you should have come here before I had eye contact with her!” - Weiss Schnee)
John and Pyrrha find the deathstalker, Yang and Blake reach the temple without any issues.
Then the Nevermore arrives!

Chapter 11 - Players and pieces
They take the chess pieces, Shirou is unsure what to do and then Claire arrives. She grabs a relic, grabs his hand and starts running after everyone.
They reach the ruins beneath the cliff, John and Ruby display their leadership skills when they give everyone orders.
When they run, Weiss gets pierced by a feather from the nevermore. Shirou, Jaune and Pyrrha hold back the deathstalker while RwBYC (RWBY + Claire and weiss is wounded) fight the nevermore.
JSP fights the deathstalker, but it manages to push them back and push Pyrrha off the bridge, Shirou runs to the edge and -

Chapter 12 - Trials
- uses Enkidu to save her.
JSP defeats the deathstalker by using Enkidu to tie him to a part of the bridge and making it collapse (Jaune’s idea)
RwBYC kills the nevermore by: Yang fires into his throat (like in canon), Weiss freezes it in place and attached to the cliff. Ruby cuts a slab of stone from the cliff which falls on the nevermore head. Blake and Ruby hold its head down with Gamble Shroud. Claire fires a supercharged arrow through it’s eyes.
They tend to the wounded Weiss (who could still somehow function in this battle thanks to aura)

Chapter 13 - A well deserved rest
The teams are declared and each one goes to their rooms, some hijinks ensues.
They will talk about the battle, Weiss is unhappy with her performance.
They inquire about Enkidu and the fact that Shirou isn’t using aura (since they are on the same team they can use scrolls to see how much aura other teammates have)
maybe split it into 2 chapters?



Plans for the future (not exactly story Arcs, but things that will probably happen somewhere) - order means the order they will appear in the story.
  1. Kilia will act as a mentor to Shirou. (And he might call her one time when he needs help)
  2. Like canon, Cinder’s group is terrorizing Vale. The confrontation with the white fang in the docks will happen (maybe add a named character to the white fang? so far they only have red shirts).
  3. After some kind of notable achievement (which can be related to either Grimm or the white fang) the two teams will be brought in front of the council of Vale. And will receive recognition for their actions (maybe a medal).
    Shirou and Gilgamesh will meet for the first time (which will almost turn into a fight but JSPC will restrain Shirou)
  4. One of the 3rd year huntsmen-in-training (later 4th year) will die in a fight against Cinder’s group.
    Will probably be the first time Shirou projects NPs.
    Might happen before or after meeting Gilgamesh.
    By the time I’ll finish writing the first arc RWBY might reach the point where it shows the motives/ goals of Cinder’s group. Will probably use that as a basis for a story arc.
  5. A group of huntsmen will find a new type of Grimm, an intelligent one that can control other Grimm (Crap, this might be too cliche…).
    Beacon/Vale will prepare a raid to kill the specific new Grimm type, a raid which RWBY and JSPC will join.
    Will be an arc that really shows how hard the life of a huntsman truly are, the characters will struggle with things like being on guard all the time, not sleeping in a comfortable place (poor Weiss!) and the fact that they will see other people die before their eyes.
    Might happen before or after the climactic fight with Cinder.
  6. Yang will fall in love with Shirou and they enter a relationship (and she starts to understand how screwed up he is. “you lost me…”)
    He will get over Rin and commit himself to the relationship with Yang (but he is not going to be very good at this, but Yang won’t really care).
    They might break up later in the story, not sure yet.

And I also made a table with some of the characters.
Btw, the 3rd years are only in their 3rd year until RWBY and JSPC starts learning in beacon, then they will become 4rd year huntsmen-in-training.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gmozKStIs2EGBZxyGKaYGX1AP94zhYqijhXDycvMFVw/edit?usp=sharing

(I have a really hard time coming up with names...).
 

Nephirin

Well-Known Member
#15
Not really going to comment in depth, but figured I'd point out a few things I noticed.
itaywex said:
During their time inside the grail Gilgamesh managed to survive by being connected to the core of the grail (codename “Shirou”) with Enkidu. When he leaves he has to abandon it inside since the grail wasn’t weak to let someone extract it’s core from itself (maybe he got out few years before Shirou?)
Which means Shirou will have Enkidu when he gets out (which will be his secondary weapon).
I cannot see Gilgamesh ever willingly abandoning Enkidu. It represents his one and only friend-- the only friend he will ever allow himself to have. It isn't just a simple chain to him.

itaywex said:
Intermission - Banquet
The ruling council is holding a party to welcome it’s newest member, a golden man with a robotic arm and red eyes.
(maybe add a character, Selena, who is part of the ruling council and will be the POV during Gil’s intermissions?)
Gil got a robot arm, huh? I'm reminded of a scene that took the opposite approach in Chaos Theory.
Kirei shrugged, understanding that Gilgamesh would not be offering any other explanation for his actions; in his mind there was no need to explain his actions at all, nor what had happened to his hand. "Were you able to retrieve the severed hand? I should be able to reattach it, if you wish."

"I don't want it anymore," Gilgamesh said, very softly.

"... Did the hand do something to offend you?" Kirei asked, being very careful to keep his voice totally deadpan. Despite this, Gilgamesh still turned a gaze so venomous on him that Kirei almost wished Lancer were still around to use as a human shield.

"It offended me," Gilgamesh said softly, "by being cut off."

"Pragmatism does have a place in such a conflict. A lost hand..." Kirei began delicately.

"Is meaningless to me. Such a small injury will do little to impact my combat potential, Kirei. In fact, quite the opposite," he said softly, looking down at the bloody bandage wrapped around the hand. "Every time I look at it, my mind gets more clear, my hatred burns a little more cold.

"I can't imagine a better reminder of who I need to kill most of all."
itaywex said:
Intermission - Things that should stay unknown
I thought the intermissions were going to be Gilgamesh? Shouldn't this be a regular chapter?

itaywex said:
After some kind of notable achievement (which can be related to either Grimm or the white fang) the two teams will be brought in front of the council of Vale. And will receive recognition for their actions (maybe a medal).
Shirou and Gilgamesh will meet for the first time (which will almost turn into a fight but JSPC will restrain Shirou)
I would think that Gilgamesh would need restraining. Shirou was just some Faker who cut off his arm, after all.

itaywex said:
Will certainly happen before the end of the 1st school year (“What do you mean you “can’t do it with a minor!?” since Shirou is 18 by this point and she is 17, will show her that he has a different set of values than other people from remnant).
They might break up later in the story, not sure yet.
Most teenagers aren't that picky over a year of difference, and most courts give leeway on it. Also worth noting (though, I'm pulling this info off wikipedia, so grain of salt):
However, all prefectures and districts have (largely similar) "obscenity ordinances" (淫行条例) that forbid "fornication" (淫行) with anyone under 18 years of age, but exempt sex in the context of a sincere romantic relationship or with parental approval.

The age of marriage is 16 for girls and 18 for boys, with parental consent, or 20 otherwise.
I don't think Shirou would really quibble over something like that, honestly. He certainly didn't mind being on the receiving end when he was a minor.


The other thing I kinda notice is the multiple OCs being used as major characters. While this isn't bad per se, and a good fanfiction writer can often use them effectively, they can also frequently lead to trouble with less experienced writers from what I've seen. Not saying you shouldn't, just offering a word of caution.
 
#16
Nephirin said:
I cannot see Gilgamesh ever willingly abandoning Enkidu. It represents his one and only friend-- the only friend he will ever allow himself to have. It isn't just a simple chain to him.
My reasoning for leaving Enkidu at the hands of Shirou:
The scenario I was thinking about was that Shirou has become the core of the grail while AM rampaged around the world(and other apocalypse like the grain entering the atmosphere also occurred).

Gilgamesh managed to survive because he was connected (via Enkidu) to "The core", eventually when the grail weakens enough and he can get out he has to abandon it because the grail wasn't weak enough at the time to let someone take away it's core (and Gilgamesh wasn't very powerful after being inside the grail for centuries to destroy it and the Grimm that surrounded it).

From story perspective I wanted Shirou to have some kind of weapon that is both magical and won't seem too odd to the other huntsmen.
(So that the part in which he exposes his magecraft won't be 10 chapters into the story).
I thought the Sword + chain would be a cool fighting style that will remain even after Shirou exposes his magecraft.
But if you think it's very implausible than I will remove that.

Nephirin said:
I thought the intermissions were going to be Gilgamesh? Shouldn't this be a regular chapter?
I thought of intermissions as shorter chapters that focus on things that are not directly related to the ongoing plot, but still give us valuable knowledge about the world. They are planned to be in the middle of each arc and between story arcs.

Naturally episodes in which we focus on events that happen to Gilgamesh and the ruling council are intermissions.
But I thought calling this chapter an intermission made sense. Do you think I'm wrong? (If I am I will change it, it's not like it's much of a difference if I call it "intermission" or "chapter").

Nephirin said:
Gil got a robot arm, huh? I'm reminded of a scene that took the opposite approach in Chaos Theory.
Sounds interesting, I'll definitely read it.
And yeah, that's probably how Gilgamesh reacted in the first few weeks after he got out.
But after some time outside he got more level-headed and decided to get a replacement.
If there is anything Gil learned from his fight with Shirou, is that sometimes "pragmatism" is more important than pride.
He will still be the same Gilgamesh we all know and love, but being defeated by Shirou humbled him a little. He will no longer underestimate/toy with his opponents as much as he did before.
Which leads us to the next point...

Nephirin said:
I would think that Gilgamesh would need restraining. Shirou was just some Faker who cut off his arm, after all.
A bit long, again.
At first he would have killed Shirou on sight. But after spending some time in this world (which he enjoys much more than he had in his time with Kirei between the wars. Between the wars he used one of his treasures to become a 10 year old until the next war in which he planned to cleanse humanity).
Think about it that way, Gilgamesh decides to help the humanity of remnant because they are much closer to the humanity of his age and are worthy to be ruled by him (something his is working on).
Shirou is training to be a huntsman, he is basically going to protect Gilgamesh's property.

Gilgamesh is not going to like Shirou, but to him Shirou is not important enough to be killed. It will be much better to use Shirou to protect Gilgamesh's interests (Also, Saber insulted him, denied him and pretty much caused him to be showered with all the evil in the world. 10 years later he want's to marry her. I don't think Gilgamesh is the kind of person who gets angry when someone insults him or hurts him, getting angry at trivial things like that is beneath him).

And he will know that Shirou got out and is about to meet him way before the meeting occurs, Shirou will be very surprised to see Gilgamesh (and will probably think that Gilgamesh is about to attack him and his team while Gil doesn't do anything and is enjoying the fact Shirou is embarrassing himself).


Nephirin said:
Most teenagers aren't that picky over a year of difference, and most courts give leeway on it.
I don't think Shirou would really quibble over something like that, honestly. He certainly didn't mind being on the receiving end when he was a minor.
Good point, I should have done my research.

Nephirin said:
The other thing I kinda notice is the multiple OCs being used as major characters. While this isn't bad per se, and a good fanfiction writer can often use them effectively, they can also frequently lead to trouble with less experienced writers from what I've seen. Not saying you shouldn't, just offering a word of caution.
Okay, it was a mistake on my part to put the 3rd (4th) year huntsmen-in-training at the top of the table.
They are only important in the first 4 chapters, after that they won't show up much. After the first arc the story will focus on RWBY and JSPC (which I have no idea how to pronounce...).
So they are definitely not major characters (I know that using lots of OCs as major characters is a bad idea).

The only major character who is an OC is Claire, and that's because Nora is just there for comedy and Ren hasn't done anything so far.
If I have another slot to fill in the team than my only option is an OC (I think that Neptune and Sun should be in the same team and their entire team is from another kingdom).
I am putting an OC in there because I don't really have a choice, I might be missing something. Do you know any other RWBY character that could join Shirou to replace Nora and Ren?

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, it gave me a lot to think about.
 

Nephirin

Well-Known Member
#17
So they are definitely not major characters (I know that using lots of OCs as major characters is a bad idea).
It's not necessarily a bad idea. I've read good fanfiction that's nothing but OCs and only takes place in the same universe before. I'm just warning you because it's hard to pull off.

For Enkidu-- It's possible you can find some way to rip it away from Gil, but I can't see him ever giving it up willingly, even to escape. And he's going to take it back from Shirou the moment he knows Shirou has it.

For Gil-- Well, he'd decided he wanted to marry Saber back in the 4th War. What she said or did didn't matter, he'd made his decision to take her, and so she would be his. Shirou, on the other hand, he hates. Shirou is a Faker with a hypocritical ideal that wasn't even his to begin with.
 
#18
Nephirin said:
It's not necessarily a bad idea. I've read good fanfiction that's nothing but OCs and only takes place in the same universe before. I'm just warning you because it's hard to pull off.

For Enkidu-- It's possible you can find some way to rip it away from Gil, but I can't see him ever giving it up willingly, even to escape. And he's going to take it back from Shirou the moment he knows Shirou has it.

For Gil-- Well, he'd decided he wanted to marry Saber back in the 4th War. What she said or did didn't matter, he'd made his decision to take her, and so she would be his. Shirou, on the other hand, he hates. Shirou is a Faker with a hypocritical ideal that wasn't even his to begin with.
Enkidu - You are right, I'll change it. Which means I'll have to think of what kind of weapon will be made for Shirou. While he might use his magecraft in some fights, to conserve energy (and at first to keep his abilities a secret) he will have a main dust-based weapon.
The only question is what (I don't really see him using some kind of weapon that doubles as a gun).

Gil- But circumstances are against him. If he kills Shirou than it will ruin much of the trust that he acquired throughout his time in Vale.
The other members of the council (and other citizens of Vale) won't like the fact that one of their rulers decided to kill one of their protectors.

Gilgamesh and Shinji said:
"I allow everything that is magnificent. A splendid ornament is something I must admire the most. ButI cannot stand giving it to the meaningless extras."
"…Extras…?"
"It happened a long time ago. I chose ten servants and tried to kill the one that I did not need. What do you think happened, Shinji?"

"Huh? They were all slaves, right? Then didn't you kill them all?"
"No. I actually could not kill anybody. None of the laborers were meaningless in the old world."
He shrugs his shoulders ironically and steps forward.
…A deeper darkness.
He raises his foot over the dark shadow.

"But this world is filled with extras. I believe there would not be a single meaningful person even if I sought through a thousand people.
Man, this world has gotten so friendly to humans."
While Gilgamesh is the kind of man who does anything he wants, he always takes the consequences into consideration.
And Shirou is a strong warrior, he managed to defeat him. So Gilgamesh can either hate him or praise him (or both), but he can't deny the fact that Shirou will be a valuable tool of used correctly.

(Sending someone to assassinate Shirou will solve most of those problems, but I don't think Gil would do that).
 
#19
Why Shirou specifically? Why not Saber, or other characters from Type-Moon that seem doable in this setting. Rin would love it here, all the things she could learn about Dust.

Also, why after the fight with Gilgamesh? After all, you're already having a problem with how to deal with him because this is right after his fight with Shirou. There tons of opportunities for dimension hopping in Type Moon, just because you have the 2nd Magic as the reason readily available.

Also, why replace a character at all? I get that you want Shirou to have a place in the main story, but why not just make him not part of Beacon? Like make him part of the opposition, or something that stirs up the wholes story of RWBY. Imagine Shirou going against team RWBY and team JNPR, but you'll have to find a solid reason for Shirou to be part of the enemies.

Though I would find it entertaining if Shirou ended up in Cardin's team. If you actually just want to replace someone, replace someone on that team.

Just my thoughts. I kinda feel that this is wee bit too selfinserty just from reading the premise. If you actually want a SI, you might as well do an SI.
 
#20
Funkiller said:
Why Shirou specifically? Why not Saber, or other characters from Type-Moon that seem doable in this setting. Rin would love it here, all the things she could learn about Dust.
Because Saber will be way too strong for remnant (not to mention stuff like needing mana to live and I'm not sure if anyone in there is capable of making a contract).
Rin isn't strong enough, and she is the kind of person who will just enjoy the researching of dust and other parts of the world instead of becoming a huntress (which is a central part of RWBY).
It's doable, but I'd rather use Shirou because he is both strong enough to fit in the universe and he has an actual cause to meet with the other main characters.

Funkiller said:
Also, why after the fight with Gilgamesh? After all, you're already having a problem with how to deal with him because this is right after his fight with Shirou. There tons of opportunities for dimension hopping in Type Moon, just because you have the 2nd Magic as the reason readily available.
Not really, the only way to dimension hop is with the 2nd Magic (Or through the root/throne of heroes)
  1. Which is exactly why I'm saying remnant is in the far future after an apocalypse (something similar to notes).,
  2. Using the 2nd magic will have to involve lol!Zelretch. And I am not doing that.,
  3. I'm using UBW Shirou because I need a Shirou who still has his ideal (which rules out Heavens feel/ mind of steel) and I don't like fate route Shirou. Moving him to remnant right after the fight means that he will still be Shirou (and not some kind of Shirou/Archer hybrid which some other authors use instead of Shirou).,

And yeah, I did think a lot about how to handle Gilgamesh. And I still think that he has a place in this fic, I think it would be a good chance to explore what kind of person Gil is when he doesn't hate humanity.

Funkiller said:
Also, why replace a character at all? I get that you want Shirou to have a place in the main story, but why not just make him not part of Beacon? Like make him part of the opposition, or something that stirs up the wholes story of RWBY. Imagine Shirou going against team RWBY and team JNPR, but you'll have to find a solid reason for Shirou to be part of the enemies.

Though I would find it entertaining if Shirou ended up in Cardin's team. If you actually just want to replace someone, replace someone on that team.
What you said is interesting, not putting Shirou in one of the teams.
It could work, but:

  1. Being a huntsman is pretty much his dream (someone whose job is to protect other people). There is no way he will join the white fang/Cinder's group and fight against them.,
  2. I could imagine him being some kind of loner who is being a hero by himself instead of being in a team. But I don't think that's something Shirou is prepared to do right after the end of UBW. It more like what Archer would do.,
  3. Putting him in another team would rely too much on OCs. And Cardin was never made to be a likeable character (which can be changed... but why not use one of the more developed main characters?),
  4. I don't think that getting rid of Ren and Nora is such a huge loss.,

Funkiller said:
Just my thoughts. I kinda feel that this is wee bit too selfinserty just from reading the premise. If you actually want a SI, you might as well do an SI.
I'm not sure I understand. How is it selfinserty if I bring Shirou and Gilgamesh? (last time I check, I wasn't Shirou or Gilgamesh).
What's wrong with the premise? Should I add something? remove something? (saying it's a bit too selfinserty isn't really helping me improve the story).


And in other news, I am continuing to work on the outline of the story. I believe I will start writing soon enough.
Thank you for your support and advices :)
 
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