Anull the results of Election 3 and do it over

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Vexarian

Well-Known Member
#1
The Ero-Sennin locked the thread for the election of the third Moderator, and prematurely declared Chronodekar the victor, and the new moderator a full day ahead of when the poll should have rightfully closed. There is doubt that Chronodekar would have won otherwise.

I want the results of the third election annulled and a repeat election held, preferably under the suggested Yes/No rules.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#2
Not that my opinion really matters... but I've thought on this possibility since it was first brought up, but I came to the following conclusion...

I'd be against it...

Not because of whom I voted for, or for any slight against you or the other then candidates, but because I dislike the idea of having that circus in regards to posted content that occurred in that thread (and the few spinoff threads since to continue it even further) happen all over again...
 
#3
I think that it's called for. You can't have a legitimate election if you change rules halfway through.

And I'm saying this as a board member, not a Vex supporter. I like chrono as a mod. He's doing a good job. Unfortunately, this isn't about chrono specifically...just the election, which was botched.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#4
I disagree with annulling the results of the election- however, reopening it I would support. It was closed 24 hours early, so I say, at most, reopen it for 24 hours and let it finish.

I would prefer us to not open this can of worms again, however.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#6
I'd rather rehold the election with a ranking system (i.e. order each mod candidate from least preferred to most, winner is the person with the most points total) and maybe throw daniel_gudman in there as another candidate since he's popular and missed the deadline on a technicality... but I have a feeling I won't gain much support for that position as it's an even more drastic rule change, so reopening the poll for another day would probably be best.
 

Zephyrus

Searching for the six-fingered man.
#7
Shirotsume said:
I disagree with annulling the results of the election- however, reopening it I would support. It was closed 24 hours early, so I say, at most, reopen it for 24 hours and let it finish.

I would prefer us to not open this can of worms again, however.
I'm in agreement, actually. If this is what it'll take to get people to shut up, then sure.

Re-open the poll for another 24 hours. I feel it would still perpetuate this drama, though.
 

Vexarian

Well-Known Member
#8
toraneko said:
Shirotsume said:
reopen it for 24 hours and let it finish
This is what I support.
This seems much messier to me than simply scrapping it and doing it over fresh. Plus you're likely to surprise people, which is not a good thing.

If we're reopening it as opposed to simply redoing it, I say go for forty eight hours. The original twenty four, plus an additional day for everyone to learn what the fuck is going on.

But again, there's really no reason not to simply redo it.
 

T.L

Well-Known Member
#9
People who have voted the way they did will not change their vote, and quite possible might try to induce others to switch out of spite. Thus possibly igniting a full board war.

My proposal would be thus.
1 -: Let things settle down for 1 month.
2 -: Start a new poll for Mod 3 without seeing who voted for who.(private)
3 -: No campaigning, Come on people most of us are adults and have already made up our minds

The pure utter BS over what happened needs to be left alone and everybody needs to move on.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#10
I'm still against a revote in the first place, as I'm of the current opinion that no revote method on the face of this planet would satisfy all parties, and there would *still* be bitterness and grumbling.

But having said that, if we must, then...

My concerns with a potential 1 month delay if that approach is taken is the idea of leaving it up in the air that long with the sheer amount of hatred it has generated and the amount of crap flying around the forum due to it.

Also, I dislike it for the fact May is in my personal experience on this forum potentially the worst month conceivable for such a hot topic and as such bodes ill for its success.

Because of that same personal experience I had little intention of even monitoring this forum in May... this kind of crap will force me to watch for potential vote threads sneaking by...

Considering all the other voting was done on the same setup as the mod3 one, I am against changing it for any revote and feel it should be the exact same setup as the other votes for consistency.

Having said all that, I *am* in favor of a complete and utter ban on campaigning... In fact, I would almost prefer there be a rule that campaigning can be grounds for being disqualified...
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
#11
Altered Nova said:
I'd rather rehold the election with a ranking system
It's difficult for me to openly say anything here as people might take as a sign of self-interest, but I can confidently say that making the election process into a 'ranking system' will be difficult for the following reasons,

1. It's difficult to implement technically; at least within the limitations out host (icyboards) provides. If done, you need to have it off-site which raises the issue of how to ensure only TFF members vote.

2. The Ranking system is just difficult to use. Both from a voter's perspective and from trying to analyse the results. Remember the 'Favorite TFF Author' award I set up some time ago,
Vote/campaign for your Favorite TFF author!!

General feedback I got is that people found the 'ranking system' confusing and preferred 'multiple choice' over it.

If you want to see (live action) how both systems work, just vote in the dummy polls below. They are configured to show the results at the end,


(Poll type: Ranking)?


(Poll type: Multiple choice)

-chronodekar
 

TC_Hazard

Well-Known Member
#12
A suggestion, I would not be against reopening the election thread for the hours that remained in it.

However, if there is a new election, to avoid further drama the only people that get to post on that thread are the candidates. One post each to say why we should vote for them. No further discussion in order to avoid a repeat of last time.

Come to think of it even if we just reopen the old thread, shutting down the discussion and only letting the candidates say their piece once may not be a bad idea.
 

Lord Raine

Well-Known Member
#13
Start the election over. The results were invalidated because of Ero's actions. If it's true that people would just vote the same way, then there's no reason to go to the trouble of reopening it and giving 24 hours.

And make it clear to Ero that if he does something like this again, we're going to impeach him. Immediately. TFF wants hands-off mods, not mods that directly interfere with what little process we have, and then try to save face by being an internet toughguy and spamming softcore pornography.
 

Python453

Well-Known Member
#14
I agree it should be reopened and we should get the mod in the proper time frame.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#15
General thoughts: I am very heavily against the idea of changing the format of the vote, and also against the idea of adding candidates. I've posted my thoughts on why I dislike these several times already, so I won't bore people with them again.

Not allowing discussion in the thread would be a bad idea- remember, the election worked as intended, except for the part where it was closed. Discussion was intended to occur during the vote, and you were allowed to undo your vote- and indeed, you were INTENDED to undo your vote- based on what happened during that discussion.

If we don't want to allow discussion in the thread, then discussion needs to occur before the election, and then have a shorter vote. I would personally prefer this solution. Three days seems to be the right amount of time to get all parties who wish to vote the time to vote- in every election, only 2-3 votes were gained on the fourth day. However, votes could have changed at any time because of the extra 24 hours of discussion.

With discussion beforehand, there would be no need for allowing a changed vote.


All that said, I would prefer reopening it for 24 hours. My reasoning is just the same as above- nearly everyone who was going to vote did, around 120 people. All reopening the vote would do at this point is allow people to undo their vote.

tl;dr: Keep in mind that reopening the vote for a longer amount of time isn't going to get more people to vote- everyone that was going to vote did. All it does is add a larger window of time for people to edit their vote (of which around 70% will be able to do in the first 24 hours, 85% the first 48, and 99% the first 72.) and a significantly larger amount of time for people to flip shit- WHICH, keep in mind, isn't against the rules, but quite frankly I'm getting fucking sick of.
 

Glimmervoid

Well-Known Member
#16
IMO, changing the format of any redo vote at this stage would only give rise to another batch of legitimacy concerns. Post somewhere noticeable that the Mod 3 thread will be reopened for 24 hours of voting. Once people have had a chance to see that notice, have that extra 24 hours and let's put this to bed.
 

Vexarian

Well-Known Member
#17
Lord Raine said:
Start the election over. The results were invalidated because of Ero's actions. If it's true that people would just vote the same way, then there's no reason to go to the trouble of reopening it and giving 24 hours.

And make it clear to Ero that if he does something like this again, we're going to impeach him. Immediately. TFF wants hands-off mods, not mods that directly interfere with what little process we have, and then try to save face by being an internet toughguy and spamming softcore pornography.
I agree. Just reopening the vote for the allotted time is nothing more than a half-measure. The election has already been deeply troubled, moreso by the fact that it's been closed for days, and Chronodekar has already been elected moderator.

I think we should simply wait a few days and start an entirely new election.

And no matter what, Chronodekar needs to be stripped of his status immediately, because all it's going to do is color the voters.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#18
How would it color the voters? Start giving reasons, Vex- people already think you're just mad and lashing out about losing the election, and failing to give reasons is only hurting you.

I'm not saying you ARE mad and/or lashing out, but the way you're posting is implying it, and I think people are ignoring you instead of taking your suggestions seriously because of it, especially since you're giving no reasons besides "Because I said so."
 

Vexarian

Well-Known Member
#19
Shirotsume said:
How would it color the voters? Start giving reasons, Vex- people already think you're just mad and lashing out about losing the election, and failing to give reasons is only hurting you.

I'm not saying you ARE mad and/or lashing out, but the way you're posting is implying it, and I think people are ignoring you instead of taking your suggestions seriously because of it, especially since you're giving no reasons besides "Because I said so."
Because Chronodekar has already received Moderator status here, illegitimately, but certainly not everyone has kept up with this ongoing fiasco.

The fact that he has been going around, posting with a purple name has absolutely changed some people's perceptions of him. Fuck, before this I could barely remember who he was.

In the other thread, I believe it was you who said that being a moderator changes how other forum goers perceive a person and how they treat them. My claim is a simple extension of that.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#20
First: Thank you for taking that as advice and not as an attack. I appreciate it.

And yes, I have said that before- I just don't understand why you feel that leaving him a mod for three more days as opposed to removing his modship now would influence the vote. It feels arbitrary to me.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#21
Vexarian said:
Shirotsume said:
How would it color the voters? Start giving reasons, Vex- people already think you're just mad and lashing out about losing the election, and failing to give reasons is only hurting you.

I'm not saying you ARE mad and/or lashing out, but the way you're posting is implying it, and I think people are ignoring you instead of taking your suggestions seriously because of it, especially since you're giving no reasons besides "Because I said so."
Because Chronodekar has already received Moderator status here, illegitimately, but certainly not everyone has kept up with this ongoing fiasco.

The fact that he has been going around, posting with a purple name has absolutely changed some people's perceptions of him. Fuck, before this I could barely remember who he was.

In the other thread, I believe it was you who said that being a moderator changes how other forum goers perceive a person and how they treat them. My claim is a simple extension of that.
I cannot speak for others, but I have to say generally speaking within the realm of everyday posting I could care less whom is admin, whom is mod, whom is everyone else, and I tend to ignore colors on forums and until someone pointed it out I did not know they posted in a different color upon invoking authority.

I care only that they do their job.

I care to know whom they are only in order to be able to go to them when there is an issue/request/enhancement idea, be it a issue with a forum member or a issue with the forum itself.

You certainly IMHO have a right if you feel wronged to suggest the revote. But my own suggestions:

- No matter what you may think of the situation, don't take it out on Chrono, as it was not him that ended the election and declared him winner, it was not him that had any power in the decisions that led to this situation.

- Do not make this personal or vindictive, nor should you be overly antagonistic... Some of your posts are coming across not only bitter, but nearly bloodthirsty, that is not the way to get others on your side.
 

Cherry_lover

Well-Known Member
#22
T.L said:
3 -: No campaigning, Come on people most of us are adults and have already made up our minds
I completely disagree with this. Without people expressing their viewpoint we cannot know who will actually do a good job, so it just becomes a popularity contest.

TC_Hazard said:
A suggestion, I would not be against reopening the election thread for the hours that remained in it.

However, if there is a new election, to avoid further drama the only people that get to post on that thread are the candidates. One post each to say why we should vote for them. No further discussion in order to avoid a repeat of last time.

Come to think of it even if we just reopen the old thread, shutting down the discussion and only letting the candidates say their piece once may not be a bad idea.
The problem with that is that it means you cannot question them, and therefore it becomes an exercise in who can bullshit the best and write the most persuasive election post.
 

GenocideHeart

Well-Known Member
#23
Lord Raine said:
Start the election over. The results were invalidated because of Ero's actions. If it's true that people would just vote the same way, then there's no reason to go to the trouble of reopening it and giving 24 hours.

And make it clear to Ero that if he does something like this again, we're going to impeach him. Immediately. TFF wants hands-off mods, not mods that directly interfere with what little process we have, and then try to save face by being an internet toughguy and spamming softcore pornography.
One thing you need to keep in mind, Raine: we're not in Kansas anymore. If we do half the shit we did on Invisionfree here on Icyboards, we're going to have our forum sacked so fast our heads will spin right off our necks and fly into outer space.

Hands-off moderation isn't going to work if TFF can't moderate itself, and the gigantic shitstorm that happened in the Mod3 thread pretty much proves that no, contrary to what users say, TFF can't moderate itself worth squat.

It was harmless on Invisionfree, since they didn't much care what happened on their boards, but Icyboards is sponsored by Google last I checked, and Google is known for throwing huge hissy fits at anything improper in forums it sponsors. It's what caused the mass epuration of TvTropes. Do you want us to go through that same massacre?

Just saying... I really WOULD like it if the way we ran oTFF worked here, but it won't. If there's going to be any future for this board, mods will have to take a more active role in handling the boards, for the sake of the board's own continued existence. I think we have a good thing here, and it'd be pretty terrible if we lost it just because we can't keep our e-peens in our pants. And that goes for EVERYONE involved, be it mods, admins or users.
 

Vexarian

Well-Known Member
#24
I think you're overestimating how much Google cares about our shitty little forum. TV Tropes receives an absolutely incomparable amount of traffic, and ultimately Google's only demand was an excessively simple "Remove all mentions of the word rape from your website".
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#25
Honestly, I don't feel like google is going to be too much of an issue due to the way I set up the board as long as we follow the first four tenants of the rules: nsfw in the restricted forum, nothing illegal, etc etc.

That said, I prefer hands off modding, if nothing else than just for the fact that the way the rules are set up demands it. If the mods start trying to get hands on, then we've got a bigger problem in that the mods just decided to start enforcing their own rules.
 
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