Avatar:TLA Miscellaneous Ideas Thread

Alright, this just occurred to me, but it could have been pieced together ages ago.

CANON: Aang ran away because the Southern Air Temple elders were going to remove him from Gyatso's care, and he did not realize Gyatso was going to fight that decision of the elders.

CANON: Aang has friends, in his own words, "all over the world." We know of Bumi in the Earth Kingdom, and Kuzon in the Fire Nation. It stands to reason that Aang had a friend in one or the other major Water Tribe cities.

CANON: Aang's iceberg was found near the home of the Southern Water Tribe.

This has me thinking that he was, perhaps, deliberately headed for the Southern Water Tribe. I think he may have been seeking some kind of shelter.

Is it, however, impossible that Aang decided that if he was forced to do this "whole Avatar thing" (again, his words) that he was going to do it on his terms? Could he have been going to the SWT for Waterbending instruction?

What if he was doing exactly that?

Long story short, what if Aang had completed his element training before Sozin even died? This would be amply possible; Sozin lived for twenty years after the Air Nomad genocide, and Roku had only taken twelve years to learn the rest of his cycle and master the Avatar State. That leaves plenty of time.

Thoughts?
 
nuclear death frog said:
Aang ran away because the Southern Air Temple elders were going to remove him from Gyatso's care
You now that i think about it that was a really stupid decision on Aangs part. Kinda defeats the whole perpose y'know?
 

crazyfoxdemon

Well-Known Member
Master of Squirrel-Fu said:
nuclear death frog said:
Aang ran away because the Southern Air Temple elders were going to remove him from Gyatso's care
You now that i think about it that was a really stupid decision on Aangs part. Kinda defeats the whole perpose y'know?
He's a kid... Kids aren't exactly known for their intelligence..
 
Master of Squirrel-Fu said:
nuclear death frog said:
Aang ran away because the Southern Air Temple elders were going to remove him from Gyatso's care
You now that i think about it that was a really stupid decision on Aangs part. Kinda defeats the whole perpose y'know?
Twelve year-olds are not typically seasoned thinkers. And, again, he didn't realize Gyatso planned to fight it.

More broadly, that decision may well have saved his life, so it's not all bad.
 

sworded

Well-Known Member
nuclear death frog said:
snip

Long story short, what if Aang had completed his element training before Sozin even died? This would be amply possible; Sozin lived for twenty years after the Air Nomad genocide, and Roku had only taken twelve years to learn the rest of his cycle and master the Avatar State. That leaves plenty of time.

Thoughts?
Well the FN did think he'd done something like that as Zuko and the rest of them were looking for an adult Avatar with full skills. I've got to wonder about Aang's reaction to the commet attack? That would be a major, pivotal plot point for the whole story, and it needs to be addressed before I can give any more specific feedback on the idea.

Something similar to this idea, that I've brough up before in the Embers thread, is what if Aang with or without Gyatso did a whirlwind tour of the planet and learning the other elements in a similar fashion to cannon before the FN attack? How would it look like if Avatar Aang from the final episode met the FN forces?
 
sworded said:
Something similar to this idea, that I've brough up before in the Embers thread, is what if Aang with or without Gyatso did a whirlwind tour of the planet and learning the other elements in a similar fashion to cannon before the FN attack? How would it look like if Avatar Aang from the final episode met the FN forces?
The temples are too far apart for Aang to defend more than one. He'd have to choose which one to save. Hell of a choice, that.
 

sworded

Well-Known Member
nuclear death frog said:
sworded said:
Something similar to this idea, that I've brough up before in the Embers thread, is what if Aang with or without Gyatso did a whirlwind tour of the planet and learning the other elements in a similar fashion to cannon before the FN attack? How would it look like if Avatar Aang from the final episode met the FN forces?
The temples are too far apart for Aang to defend more than one. He'd have to choose which one to save. Hell of a choice, that.
Perhaps the speed training was spurred by a vision about Sozin's plans, and Aang was able to spread the word to the Temples to scatter the night before the comet comes. Or he's able to get friends and allies posted at them to help ward off the attacks. Then too, having to make the hard choice could be a way to up the drama, but in that case I'd think that Aang would try to strike the day before or so.
 
I would point out that a similar (though not identical) premise underscores a fic I already wrote. "Last Firebender"
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
So you wrote a fic, but it isn't here or linked in your profile. Why do I doubt your words?
 
zeebee1 said:
So you wrote a fic, but it isn't here or linked in your profile. Why do I doubt your words?
<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4586900/1/Avatar_Last_Firebender' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4586900/1/Avatar_Last_Firebender</a>

Calling people liars when it takes 3 seconds of work to verify is kinda stupid.
 
clockworkchaos said:
zeebee1 said:
So you wrote a fic, but it isn't here or linked in your profile. Why do I doubt your words?
<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4586900/1/Avatar_Last_Firebender' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4586900/1/Avatar_Last_Firebender</a>

Calling people liars when it takes 3 seconds of work to verify is kinda stupid.
Zeebee is a troll. He will not be distracted by mere logic nor will he yeild in the face of evidence.
 
...

Removed.
 

Darmani

Well-Known Member
drakensis said:
New idea:

Azula was nine when she decided she was going to kill a Dragon to make her father proud. She cried (secretly) when she found out that her uncle had killed the last two already. It was perhaps unwise, certainly unfortunate, for Ozai to 'comfort' her by telling her she would prove herself in the war.

Azula was ten when she ran away to join the war effort, stowing away on a warship that wound up raiding the south pole. She cried (secretly) when she found out that war was less a romatic adventure that she imagined. It was perhaps unwise, certainly unfortunate, for a fire nation soldier to cut down a water tribe girl in full view of Azula.

Azula was eleven when Katara found her, freezing to death, wandering the ice, lost in more ways than one. She cried when Hakoda told her that a fire nation girl had no place in their village, and helped Azula to take shelter in the nearby wreck of a fire nation warship. It was perhaps unwise, certainly unfortunate, for Sokka to blame Azula for the death of Kya and goaded Katara into running away to join 'her friend the firebender' after Hakoda's departure.

Azula was fifteen when she and Katara found the Avatar...

Could go many ways, but a couple of things seem likely:
Azula may have spent ten years as Ozai's child but she's spent five years with Katara as pretty much her only human contact. So she'll probably be significantly different but still possessive (Katara is hers!) and probably views her early childhood through rose-tinted vision and the war through a bloody-tint.

Sokka hates Azula. Hate hate hate lust hate hate... She is, after all, the only girl he knows close to his age that isn't related to him. Regrets driving Katara away but too proud to apologise even though they have patched things up to some extent.

Katara and Azula are best female friends and fellow benders. Katara didn't sever ties to the whole village but despite Kanna's entreaties, hasn't moved back there, even though she goes there most days. She's a somewhat better bender, having picked up a few tricks from Azula and a little less naively optimistic. Quite possibly has a mild girl!crush upon Azula.

Zuko, as the sole heir, probably doesn't get sent into exile even if he does mouth off. He's got Ozai's attention to ensure he shapes up and probably doesn't find it as nice as he expected. Iroh has been kept at a distance to avoid softening him, with the result that the old man has descended into trying to kill himself with alcohol and other pleasures of the flesh.

Aang, of course, is cheerily oblivious. Without Zuko's presence there is no real prod to send him off, so he leaves the south pole a little later with Azula, Katara and Sokka accompanying him to the Southern Air Temple and eventually the north pole. Sokka would like to find Hakoda, Katara seeks a waterbending master and Azula has a highly unrealistic notion of patching up a peace between Ozai and the Avatar. Once Aang goes Avatar State at the temple, the Fire Nation begin a great search for him, with Zhao as the initial enemy.

From there, unsure.
I know this is an attempt at a time more brutal but why wouldn't Hakoda drop Azula off somewhere he knows she'll be taken care of. I mean she's eleven and it makes sense he doesn't want her staying with his people. But at the same time condemning an eleven year old noncombatant found of hypothermia to the cold seems a little harsh. It doesn't really matter as Azula+Katara is the point but I still just have to wonder.

Azula would be enough pressure for Aang to leave (You mean you're stuck here from your family. well don't worry I've got the solution!) Plus Aang had already promised to take Katara up north BEFORE he was banished. Having more...gradual but complete introduction to the war (Azula) may play out here too

But the Focus is Katara and Azula and the changes here.

Honestly I'm just not sure. By the time of Azulon's death Azula was at least pretending to enjoy the idea of her brother being killed along with Luten, Iroh, and Azulon. Why the sudden empathic change. Moreover why did Yon Rha(sp?) leave her to die in the south pole?
 

Darmani

Well-Known Member
grant said:
Sounds like it would start a civil war in the city between the pro-Feng and pro-Emperor factions. Normally I'd think that Feng would win easily with Dai Li Earthbenders and the lack of decent tactics in Avatarverse, but you could keep the Avatar nearby to change that.
Or Katara herself. She has eyeballs. This is the REALLY big plothole of CoD here she was in the city for a week and never met the guests her group certified, didn't think oh better chat up my future sister-in-law, didn't want to just see a familiar couple of faces? Why wasn't she at the welcoming procession!
 

knight_of_ni

Well-Known Member
Darmani said:
grant said:
Sounds like it would start a civil war in the city between the pro-Feng and pro-Emperor factions. Normally I'd think that Feng would win easily with Dai Li Earthbenders and the lack of decent tactics in Avatarverse, but you could keep the Avatar nearby to change that.
Or Katara herself. She has eyeballs. This is the REALLY big plothole of CoD here she was in the city for a week and never met the guests her group certified, didn't think oh better chat up my future sister-in-law, didn't want to just see a familiar couple of faces? Why wasn't she at the welcoming procession!
Azula's conquering of Ba Sing Se was filled with a shit ton of plot hax to make sure that she succeeded (it's a reason I cannot stand anything where she succeeds). I mean, for one thing, there was only one Dai Li that didn't follow her. Only one? Really? That's not how things work. Yes, the Fire Nation had superior technology and is supposed to be the Japanese/Nazi's of the verse. The problem? They don't use their technology that well. They almost always abandon their technology in favor of throwing fire balls at people, which is a) not the most effective combat strategy and b) not a good way to fight against enemies in their home territory when they have superior numbers.

Hell, conquering Ba Sing Se should have been the dumbest move possible. They would have to commit a lot of troops to guarding a city packed full of panicked refugees, lots of small alleys, and they are the new people. The only advantage they had was that a lot of the buildings in the lower class area were made of wood. Which would make a good threat, but the bad part of it? Not all of their troops are firebenders, so they could end up causing a fire that kills off some of their buddies as well as civilians, plus there would be the riots that started with that.

I was actually thinking about doing a one shot where the whole betrayal thing was all according to plan for Feng. A short thing that takes place before and after the invasion on the day of the black sun, which was successful with the treachery of the Dai Li (Azula is captured, as is Ozai). The one thing that I wanted to use to set the rest of the fic up is "Isn't it pathetic, Avatar, that people have spent one hundred years waiting for a child, you, to come fix all their problems? You may have claimed it to be your destiny to win this war, but if that is the case, then I am glad I decided to make my own..."

It was also meant to be something of a reaction to all of the fics where the Fire Nation some how succeeds, because having soldiers all over the globe doesn't have some other issues associated with it, am I right?
 
If you write that fic, I will read it.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
The problem with the Azula idea is that that if Aang delays to long Ozai will win the war. The comet doesn't care what the Avatar does.
 

Darmani

Well-Known Member
Back when I watched Crossroads, most of the BSS arc I was annoyed how rapidly Dai Li went from super dedicated, as advertised, to giving up critical secrets and loyalty too easily. paper tigers I could handle. Don't confuse authority with asskicking and so in straight up fight with team of dedicated experts, I was fine with them falling but not losing until they got Appa back and its STILL cost them Jet, Longshot, and Smellerbee. Azula in the throne room.. I buy that it was perfect situation on edge. She even admitted it but did it in such a way to emasculate Long Feng.

Its Zuko just needs to get his swords around the neck of one guy... and he takes him to the exact place he needs to go (not wants he doesn't know) and not an ambush (hostage Dai Li should have been under the rule book, Zuko REALLY doesn't know where he's headed so the Dai Li could totally lead him to say garrison house or place commonly patroled by his brothers or just a false warehouse with nothing in it. Lake Laogai is INSANELY important and secret why the hell did he get a free ride in there especially if the Dai Li had to Earthbend an entrance for him) Its the fact that after one week or so Azula sways them to the precipice. I had a friend who broke it down to me. The Dai Li are so divorced from the people that Fire Nation or Earth King is the same and... well Azula promisedthem the world. Its amazing what a cultivated sense of cynicism and acceptance leads to. Such defeatism disguised as wisdom and practicality leading to surrendet and destruction. On a level BSS wanted to be conquered I think they just didn't have the heart to go on anymore.

Still looking back knowing that the big screwup wasn't even Sokka leaving before iding Suki because they'd EXPLICITLY left Katara there to watch the homefront FOR such problems... she'd volunteered to do it. This wasn't something beyond her league she could have identified the girls on site WITH the procession that she was at not moments before they arrived. hell even if things played out in canon and there were more EK guards in the throne room (or fridge logic where did Azula stash Katara BEFORE she sealed her alliance with Long Feng thus didn't have someone knowing the area or Earthbend up convenient blocks. I have no problem Katara not knowing about Toph. Those two were on official business and Toph and Katara prefer their distance and this was the rare moment they didn't HAVE to stay close). Or Azula's face was better known (I always forgive this even back in the eighties IDing celebrities in person without a trained and familiar eye was a developed skill)

Mainly, yeah, there was a lot of "plot on her side" going on. Not least of which was somehow maintaining Ba Sing Se and then conquering it outright because somehow she can trust Ju Di when Long feng knows the triggers. Though to be fair Ozai WAS forced to consider scorched earth to deal with the still intrinsic resistance and the city was mostly conquered by the Dai Li.

Its probably why I'm more accepting ofthe retcon of Kyoshi making the Dai Li, if they were an already an NSA or similarly established group rather than the pure creation of Long Feng as was first said directorial coup is plausible. If Long Feng created them it was kick in the head. With the established history and Long Feng's dominance just one chapter you can conceive them seeing outside of him in light of his recent screwups.
 

Darmani

Well-Known Member
zeebee1 said:
The problem with the Azula idea is that that if Aang delays to long Ozai will win the war. The comet doesn't care what the Avatar does.
Despite fanon assumption there is little to suspect the nest of a thousand vipers applies to the Fire Nation court aside from the not occluded ones we see. There is politics but even the Water Tribe, the southern one, has that. But for the most part...people are loyal to the throne, ambitious and scheming to get favor and develop power and meaning and there are class issues. But there isn't much aside from Azula's admittedly lie there are "dark whispers of treachery" people are mostly on the up and up with regards to Ozai and his continued reign. Zhao was THE definition of overambitious and he was quite loyal until he went so off the deep end he was forced to do something illegal and wrong even by the standards of a nation that accepts a leader who burns and banishes his child with nary an objection, and remember Zuko was the publically disgraced unfavorite and suspected of treason (aiding enemy of state in escape from holding) by what was likely at the time a Grand Admiral.

Honestly I think its only bias and little orientalism flavor that has us assume Ancient Asian Court means dark and deadly intrigue.

What this means is while they won't be robotic and you WILL have issues about the whole thing decapitating the Fire Nation leaders and legitmately taking over will be accepted as part of their culture (what many people fail to anticipate in post war fics is the Fire Nation is likely old school in their views mercantile methods will likely be loathed and open themselves to dishonor if they want to challenge Zuko's legitimacy they can literally do so by Agni Kai) if done right. Even if wrong people believe and trust and are dependent on the Firelord. His defeat WILL stop the war or at least change it. The Fire Nation isn't set up for redundancy like modern state despite their tech level and so on.

If they can stop the Fire Lord BEFORE the comet arrives the Fire Nation won't have coordination, if things do fracture along generalship whatever methods central command uses over such general-cults belong to the new throne holder. If the Generals attack the Fire Nation well that's bad but not strategically so. If they hold hostage EK they hold then that means suing for peace/negotiations. If they raze the EK then Aang or some force can put out the fire and punish, guiltless, the perpetrators. That's assuming they don't raid his closet for his seal or information so they know where everyone is (the Fire Nation is running as much a cultural supremacy and elimination campaign as much as an information control operation, hence no Fire Nation maps and troops suspecting propaganda from the Fire Lord's decrees).
 

grant

Well-Known Member
From what I can understand of your argument, you're saying that the Fire Nation court isn't as dangerous a place as people suggest. Based on what we see that's both true and not. Remember that Ozai was willing to kill his son, Ursa killed her father in law and Azula was thrilled to see her brother burned. We don't see many signs that the court is disloyal but they are willing to go to extremes. Also, please don't double post.
 

Darmani

Well-Known Member
Yep. I agree its dangerous but in... well flagrant ways. There really aren't that many dark conspiracies. ITs likely helped by the fact if someone has a problem. Agni Kai. so doing the neener neener I'm not touching you bit will backfire unless your misdirect.

The only evil coup attempt confirmed was by Ozai and Ozai didn't even really carry it out and even punished the assassin (his wife) likely out of deeply held principle though he fully admitted he desired the throne.

If someone has a problem with Fire Lord Zuko they can totally Agni Kai him. Moreover Azulon's order for Zuko's death was like Zuko's own Agni Kai and banishment. It was rather straighforward action born out of complex (well for Ozai) motives.

Sorry will mind the doublies
 

knight_of_ni

Well-Known Member
Darmani said:
There are a lot of issues with that: Azula is a child, over confident, and blatantly greedy. All of which make her a vary obvious "bad choice," even with her promises. She is good at manipulating, yes, but Long Feng has been around for decades before her. The evil you know, vs the evil you don't. Humans will generally pick the known evil simply because they might have a chance to deal with it. The only time this doesn't work? Revolutionaries, when people push too far, or grow too complacent in helping or caring for their people. What's more, the Dai Li are in power, and even with Feng's screw ups, why would they choose someone out of their ranks? Or hell, they could have easily gone to the people who were destroying everything that Feng did. In fact, had they done that, their power would have been secured, and the betrayals of Feng would rest on his shoulders alone. The Dai Li are too well established to risk getting rid of at the time, and too useful. At best, they would get a reform putting them under Kuei's direct orders.

Azula wasn't even an unknown, to be honest, it was only a matter of time before they were betrayed, and they got off lightly in canon. Had she remained sane, eventually they would become a threat, or generals would suspect her for being a sympathizer to earth benders, causing growing distrust and disloyalty ("Ozai would never sully the ranks of the great Fire Nation army with earth benders!") would force her to either use them in excess, creating more disloyalty, fear, and possibly leading to a military coup. Or she sends them to the camps where the other earth benders are when things start to look bad (they are tools to her, after all).

EDIT: Actually, there might be more issues, depending on how different the training and education is compared to when they were formed. Kyoshi created them to be a conservative group, to preserve the culture iirc, so even a counter against Feng's new ideas would probably go back to either Kuei, or the avatar. Both of whom, are looking like they are becoming more competent by the time that Azula shows up.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter if there would be people gunning to take over or not. If Aang hanged around the South Pole too long the comet would come and the Fire nation would win before they were ready.
 
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