Bleach Bleach questions thread

Knyght

The Collector
How do people think kido works? As in, how do you get from "gathering spiritual energy" to "shooting lightning"? Why are incantations necessary, how do the actual words relate to the spell and what kinds of effects do incantations have?

Since we're never told the ins-and-outs of kido, I'd just like to know what kind of theories people might have.
 
Has anyone tried yet to make a Bleach X SAO fic yet anywhere I'm thinking about trying to start one
 

Knyght

The Collector
None that I've heard of. But barely anyone here still talks about Bleach fanfiction...
 

image

Well-Known Member
Do we know Kenpachi's sword name yet? That really all I want out this manga now.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
No idea honestly. All I know is somehow he's going to make it rushed as hell yet slow as all get out if he keeps up the current pace of things. With interest draining fast thanks to all the bullshit he's pulled thus far making a recovery seems very unlikely at this point.

Luckily he does have at least a handful of holdovers that might make some of this somewhat worth it. Komamura in particular, and Chad vs. Luchador Quincy's likely going to be a sight to see. And once Urahara finishes whatever the hell he's doing we better goddamn finally get the bankai's we should have seen way back in the Arrancar arc to say the least. :sweat2:
 

Knyght

The Collector
Mangafox says the first chapter of the arc was released 8th February 2012. So if you assume that holidays and all those breaks he had don't count, late March/early April?
 

Dunstan

Well-Known Member
knight504 said:
Mangafox says the first chapter of the arc was released 8th February 2012. So if you assume that holidays and all those breaks he had don't count, late March/early April?
So unless the last fight start as soon as the five week break stops........:unsure!:

Well, what happens if he doesn't finish in time?:mellow:
 

Knyght

The Collector
Where's the actual source for Kubo being given a two year deadline anyway? I think I only heard it from TFFers and I don't even remember when it first came up.
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
knight504 said:
Depending on your interpretation, they wouldn't need to. Quincies don't believe that Hollows deserve to be purified, so they destroy them instead. On the one hand, that could mean that they can purify Hollows with their arrows if they wanted to. On the other hand, it could mean that they would have to choose an alternate fighting style since spiritrons + spirit power is only capable of completely destroying souls.

Personally, I doubt that a zanpakuto is specifically needed to purify Hollows. Quincies are the only known beings capable of destroying Hollows so what happens when a Shinigami kills them with Hakuda or Kido? I assume that, unless killed by a Quincy or eaten by a Hollow, the Hollow and all the souls that compose it will move onto the next stage when they die. Zanpakutos might just be the most ideal and effective option.
Just saw this question, and to be honest, I think only the zanpakuto has the power to do anything with souls, as far as sending them anywhere. In the beginning, konso was performed by stamping the forehead of a wandering soul with the pommel of the zanpakuto. Defeating a Hollow with a zanpakuto would similarly cleanse them, unless the Hollow in question was a total scumbag in life, in which case, they got turned over to Hell. We never saw any other methods used, nor were any other methods mentioned by Rukia (who probably wouldn't have relied on Ichigo initially if Kido worked as well). Seeing that asauchi are man-made devices and the 13 Squads were originally a flock of murderous killers that just so happened to have been on the "right" side at the time, not to mention have some strong historic ties to the Quincies, it would probably be accurate to say they weren't always baptizing evil spirits into the light, that they had to learn how to not screw over the world balance, insofar as they could tell.

knight504 said:
Where's the actual source for Kubo being given a two year deadline anyway? I think I only heard it from TFFers and I don't even remember when it first came up.
I remember the lines coming up right around the time the Bleach anime was cancelled. Who said it, exactly, I don't know. A quick romp on the googleplex reveals that Weekly Shonen Jump stated this was the final arc, beginning of February of last year.



Two years might be an extrapolation, based on conjecture, implication, and WMG. The rate Tite's going, this series might be going on for another full year before it can be put out of its misery.
 

Knyght

The Collector
Just saw this question, and to be honest, I think only the zanpakuto has the power to do anything with souls, as far as sending them anywhere. In the beginning, konso was performed by stamping the forehead of a wandering soul with the pommel of the zanpakuto. Defeating a Hollow with a zanpakuto would similarly cleanse them, unless the Hollow in question was a total scumbag in life, in which case, they got turned over to Hell. We never saw any other methods used, nor were any other methods mentioned by Rukia (who probably wouldn't have relied on Ichigo initially if Kido worked as well). Seeing that asauchi are man-made devices and the 13 Squads were originally a flock of murderous killers that just so happened to have been on the "right" side at the time, not to mention have some strong historic ties to the Quincies, it would probably be accurate to say they weren't always baptizing evil spirits into the light, that they had to learn how to not screw over the world balance, insofar as they could tell.
I assumed otherwise since Shingami treat the soul balance as a pretty big deal yet don't seem to be that picky about how they kill Hollows. We've seen Tessai punch a Hollow to death, numerous attempts to kill them with kido (and Hachigen succeeded in killing Menos with his barriers) and Love tore one apart with his bare hands. Considering how many souls make up a Menos, not using a zanpakuto seemed like a good way to fuck things up, and it makes destructive kido a bad idea against Hollows. And then you have to wonder what actually happens to all the Hollows who get killed by something other than zanpakuto, especially when Quincy are said to be the only beings capable of destroying souls. So if they're not being purified and not being destroyed, what's going on? :hmm:


I went trawling through the manga thread about the two year deadline and I get the feeling that it came from these posts:

Spectral said:
nick012000 said:
Spectral said:
So I very much doubt that even with all this content, he can continue the story for another ten years. At best, we're looking at a two year time-frame. Kubo has a lot of characters written into Bleach, but he doesn't have the issue like Kishimoto does; where there are just far too many characters existing to give them proper and meaningful closure that isn't hamstrung at the last minute.
Consider that we're going to be getting another Soul Society or Hueco Mundo/Karakura Town-length arc regarding the Spirit King and 0th Division, and say that again. ;)
I'll say it in red.

The Bleach manga, despite the upcoming content in terms of its final arc; will not continue beyond a period of two years.
Which was in response to Kubo saying that this was the final arc after he'd said that he'd be continuing Bleach for another ten years. Seems like it was just a someone's opinion that got blown out of proportion. Which could mean that we really do have 8+ years left.


On the whole issue with Ichigo's powers, how would things have worked if Quincygetsu had been destroyed or dominated by Shirogetsu i.e. would have done both types of training (Shinigami and Hollow) with Shirogetsu and end up like a Vizard again?

Would the training have crossed over to something like defeating Shirogetsu for bankai would earn him his Hollow mask too?

And I remember Amoldesino saying that his hollow's evolution could have been due to how White was capable of it, but could it be something else like more of Ichigo's suppressed power coming out?

Was Ichigo's suppressed latent potential referring to his spiritual power, growth rate or the abilities of his zanpakuto? Which is most likely?
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
knight504 said:
Just saw this question, and to be honest, I think only the zanpakuto has the power to do anything with souls, as far as sending them anywhere. In the beginning, konso was performed by stamping the forehead of a wandering soul with the pommel of the zanpakuto. Defeating a Hollow with a zanpakuto would similarly cleanse them, unless the Hollow in question was a total scumbag in life, in which case, they got turned over to Hell. We never saw any other methods used, nor were any other methods mentioned by Rukia (who probably wouldn't have relied on Ichigo initially if Kido worked as well). Seeing that asauchi are man-made devices and the 13 Squads were originally a flock of murderous killers that just so happened to have been on the "right" side at the time, not to mention have some strong historic ties to the Quincies, it would probably be accurate to say they weren't always baptizing evil spirits into the light, that they had to learn how to not screw over the world balance, insofar as they could tell.
I assumed otherwise since Shingami treat the soul balance as a pretty big deal yet don't seem to be that picky about how they kill Hollows. We've seen Tessai punch a Hollow to death, numerous attempts to kill them with kido (and Hachigen succeeded in killing Menos with his barriers) and Love tore one apart with his bare hands. Considering how many souls make up a Menos, not using a zanpakuto seemed like a good way to fuck things up, and it makes destructive kido a bad idea against Hollows. And then you have to wonder what actually happens to all the Hollows who get killed by something other than zanpakuto, especially when Quincy are said to be the only beings capable of destroying souls. So if they're not being purified and not being destroyed, what's going on? :hmm:
Given the examples mentioned, I don[t think any of the named ones were interested in things like soul balance at the time of mass slaughtering. Especially since I believe it would take a tremendous amount of destroyed souls to cause an imbalance. Slaying a few Hollows/Menos/Arrancar without it passing Go and collecting $200 here and there wouldn't really make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Of course, if souls aren't being destroyed or saved, where were they going? Primordial soul soup is my best guess, barring everything ending up in either Hell or Purgatory. Of course, I now wonder if SS and HM are artificial constructs trying to play God (which will probably be revealed as "yes" and continue to reinforce that Yamamoto and Co. are colossal dicks).

knight504 said:
I went trawling through the manga thread about the two year deadline and I get the feeling that it came from these posts:

Spectral said:
nick012000 said:
Spectral said:
So I very much doubt that even with all this content, he can continue the story for another ten years. At best, we're looking at a two year time-frame. Kubo has a lot of characters written into Bleach, but he doesn't have the issue like Kishimoto does; where there are just far too many characters existing to give them proper and meaningful closure that isn't hamstrung at the last minute.
Consider that we're going to be getting another Soul Society or Hueco Mundo/Karakura Town-length arc regarding the Spirit King and 0th Division, and say that again. ;)
I'll say it in red.

The Bleach manga, despite the upcoming content in terms of its final arc; will not continue beyond a period of two years.
Which was in response to Kubo saying that this was the final arc after he'd said that he'd be continuing Bleach for another ten years. Seems like it was just a someone's opinion that got blown out of proportion. Which could mean that we really do have 8+ years left.
Possibly, though, going by the chapter development, I'd say he really is running on a two year clock. And then it ends in a "Rocks fall; everyone dies" scenario because time ran out. :p

knight504 said:
On the whole issue with Ichigo's powers, how would things have worked if Quincygetsu had been destroyed or dominated by Shirogetsu i.e. would have done both types of training (Shinigami and Hollow) with Shirogetsu and end up like a Vizard again?

Would the training have crossed over to something like defeating Shirogetsu for bankai would earn him his Hollow mask too?

And I remember Amoldesino saying that his hollow's evolution could have been due to how White was capable of it, but could it be something else like more of Ichigo's suppressed power coming out?

Was Ichigo's suppressed latent potential referring to his spiritual power, growth rate or the abilities of his zanpakuto? Which is most likely?
I refer to fanfic for the answer because trying to contemplate the thing that is Ichigo Kurosaki gives me a very bad case of head explody.

Quite honestly, Ichigo is a cosmic abomination. I really, seriously wonder how can he exist solely. If his sisters turned out with similar powers, it might not be such a hard turn of events, but only him being so special and they getting what amounts to dick bothers me greatly. In my head, either they should all have fantastic powers beyond most people's comprehension, or Ichigo should have been an only child. While some parts seemed to have been planned, there's a dearth of crap that just makes me go "WTF Tite?" and the reveal of Ichigo's Quinciness and the impure power theft is just breaking my mind at this point. From a writer's perspective, this is overkill and we're not in the position to use overkill. It's just bad writing through and through, and it bugs me. It bugs me tremendously that this is the way I am told Masaki Kurosaki died. That this is what Ichigo is. That this doesn't even begin to satiate anything I was longing for to come through. It's just feeling like a bunch of random ideas are being forced to converge on this story, and we lose sight of the story, the premise. Just why did any of this matter in the first place? Nothing about this story really matters to the rest of the series, and it's a shame. While I didn't like how long the story about the arrancars went on and on, I could, at least pretend to not give a crap, just read for the fighting and the sword play and whatever. But after the reveal of Ichigo's hidden heritage? It's a herd of elephants trampling on the roof of my house. And the house was NOT built to withstand herd of elephants trampling on the roof.

...man, I was holding that bag something fierce.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
It's particularly annoying in Bleach's case because it's already a series that later in the game started to massively over rely on the shonen staple of giving new forms to gain power without actually spending the time to flesh out old forms. Really this is a problem a lot of series have, but Bleach is especially notable recently because back to back upon arc conclusions we had a super hollow form out of nowhere, the utter retardation that was the Dangai training, followed up immediately with the stupidity and utter lameness that was Mugetsu, which reset Ichigo back to zero.

And as underwhelming as Mugetsu was in general, resetting to zero would have been fine, give us a new chance to start with a fresh slate, maybe a new lead or because no one lets that happen ever the old one with a much more grounded power set this time so such a massive and utterly stupid gap in power wouldn't be created again. BUT NOPE. Straight into the full bring shenanigans where we had multiple levels of the lamest fullbring ever that we never got a proper scale on (Not helped that Ichigo can't handle a fall from like 20 feet in Fullbring so it made it seem like Base Chad could utterly destroy him), then that was gone and he got a new shikai followed up with a new bankai, and now that got destroyed after barely one and a half fights when being generous and now we're right back to a new shikai all over again and because it's Kubo a new bankai is sure to follow, not to even get into the brand new powerset he just added to the whole mix.

And ALL of this when Ichigo never, EVER, used his original shikai to its fullest potential in the first place, and seemingly no longer can now because the chain's completely gone this time. And this isn't a case of 'Ichigo just never had time to use them because he barely gets any time to fight with all these characters we have to run through' either, even that could somewhat justify it. Ichigo by far has the highest battle count of anyone in the series when just looking at the SS arc alone and he still never got his shit straight ever.

This many form changes and we have basically no idea what any of them amounts to because he never could flesh them out. This is why I'm a strong proponent of keeping a stable amount of power for one or two entire arcs before constantly upgrading forms add nauseum when it comes to shonen. Learn how to use what they have to face new obstacles and use their base abilities in new ways to win BEFORE constantly having to up the ante each and every time. It's far more entertaining and it properly sets in scale, rather than utterly destroying it and causing interest to dwindle.

There's a goddamn reason the ONLY good part of the Pat fight was when he learned to use Getsuuga from within the blade. Granted he technically did it before, but it's nice to acknowledge doing something new with something old rather than just pulling new shit out of your ass to justify a victory.

Needless to say if my interest in bleach from a fiction perspective actually manages to survive the rest of this arc, which odds aren't looking good honestly, I'm probably just going to ignore a vast amount of this arc from a canon perspective in what sort of plot developments I'd prefer to see gone into. Which Kubo's helping with considering the massive amount of retcon's he's been shoving into the last hundred or so chapters. :sweat2:
 

Dunstan

Well-Known Member
~NGD OMEGA~ said:
It's particularly annoying in Bleach's case because it's already a series that later in the game started to massively over rely on the shonen staple of giving new forms to gain power without actually spending the time to flesh out old forms. Really this is a problem a lot of series have, but Bleach is especially notable recently because back to back upon arc conclusions we had a super hollow form out of nowhere, the utter retardation that was the Dangai training, followed up immediately with the stupidity and utter lameness that was Mugetsu, which reset Ichigo back to zero.

And as underwhelming as Mugetsu was in general, resetting to zero would have been fine, give us a new chance to start with a fresh slate, maybe a new lead or because no one lets that happen ever the old one with a much more grounded power set this time so such a massive and utterly stupid gap in power wouldn't be created again. BUT NOPE. Straight into the full bring shenanigans where we had multiple levels of the lamest fullbring ever that we never got a proper scale on (Not helped that Ichigo can't handle a fall from like 20 feet in Fullbring so it made it seem like Base Chad could utterly destroy him), then that was gone and he got a new shikai followed up with a new bankai, and now that got destroyed after barely one and a half fights when being generous and now we're right back to a new shikai all over again and because it's Kubo a new bankai is sure to follow, not to even get into the brand new powerset he just added to the whole mix.

And ALL of this when Ichigo never, EVER, used his original shikai to its fullest potential in the first place, and seemingly no longer can now because the chain's completely gone this time. And this isn't a case of 'Ichigo just never had time to use them because he barely gets any time to fight with all these characters we have to run through' either, even that could somewhat justify it. Ichigo by far has the highest battle count of anyone in the series when just looking at the SS arc alone and he still never got his shit straight ever.

This many form changes and we have basically no idea what any of them amounts to because he never could flesh them out. This is why I'm a strong proponent of keeping a stable amount of power for one or two entire arcs before constantly upgrading forms add nauseum when it comes to shonen. Learn how to use what they have to face new obstacles and use their base abilities in new ways to win BEFORE constantly having to up the ante each and every time. It's far more entertaining and it properly sets in scale, rather than utterly destroying it and causing interest to dwindle.

There's a goddamn reason the ONLY good part of the Pat fight was when he learned to use Getsuuga from within the blade. Granted he technically did it before, but it's nice to acknowledge doing something new with something old rather than just pulling new shit out of your ass to justify a victory.

Needless to say if my interest in bleach from a fiction perspective actually manages to survive the rest of this arc, which odds aren't looking good honestly, I'm probably just going to ignore a vast amount of this arc from a canon perspective in what sort of plot developments I'd prefer to see gone into. Which Kubo's helping with considering the massive amount of retcon's he's been shoving into the last hundred or so chapters. :sweat2:
Meanwhile Naruto is still finding uses for Sage-Mode.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
From what I heard Naruto got like three new cloak forms right on top of eachother in basically the same fight which is sort of a similar boat in terms of overrelyance on form boosts. Of course I also heard he also used said forms to get supplementary uses for a lot of his attacks, so it kinda compensated for itself in that regard.

Nowhere near as bad as Bleach in that regard to say the least, but it shows a similar problem that Negima had in the Magic world arc. Negi could have lasted 3 entire arcs with just the basic stage of Magic Ereba itself, but then he got lightning god mode, double lightning god mode, Demon form and then super double lightning god mode in the subsequent developments. :sweat2:
 

ragnarok1337

Well-Known Member
Dunstan said:
Meanwhile Naruto is still finding uses for Sage-Mode.
Proof? As far as I can tell once he got the Kyuubi cloak and the beast itself went through massive woobie/wimpification, he never went back to Sage Mode.
 
This week's chapter not proof enough? Obito nullifies ninjutsu, unless it's enhanced with Senjutsu.
 

Knyght

The Collector
He's used it a few times afters KCM/BM and now it just became very very relevant.

Anywho, why didn't Kenpachi ever fight Unohana before now? Were they banned from doing so?
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
knight504 said:
He's used it a few times afters KCM/BM and now it just became very very relevant.

Anywho, why didn't Kenpachi ever fight Unohana before now? Were they banned from doing so?
He might not have remembered her clearly in that regard; I think he did say his memory was kind of faulty, couldn't remember an important person, or something. It's been a while since that was brought up -- like in the Soul Society arc.

"Banning" them from fighting would have about as much effect on Kenpachi as a paper chain would have in restraining a rampaging elephant. Gin, of all people, had to drag him away from duking it out with Byakuya in his first appearance.
 

~NGD OMEGA~

Well-Known Member
In fairness though Kenpachi wasn't remotely the same character in that first introduction. He started talking smack to Byakuya about noble issues and their rules of all things. Current Kenpachi doesn't, nor would he ever give a flying shit about noble bollocks. He talks smack to people about giving a shit about that sort of nonsense.
 

mario_zx

Well-Known Member
So were Souken, and Ryuuken actively sabotaging Uryus' training as a Quincy?
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Did we ever find out who the other two War Potentials were besides Ichigo, Kenpachi and Aizen?
 

Knyght

The Collector
No, not as far as I know. But I think we can assume that Uryu is one, based on his recruitment into the Wandenreich and Yhwach's comments on his abilities.
 
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