Complaints about the TSAB

#51
>people still arguing with PCHeintz
>after like three days straight


 

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#52
Rising Dragon said:
Man, fuck this planet. They've had hundreds of years to fix its shit and they've only been doing worse and worse. I'd move to Mid-childa in a heartbeat.
This has got to be one of the most awesome things I've read in a Nanoha discussion. And yeah, I'd also move to Mid in a heartbeat, if given the opportunity.

Hayate getting off scot-free, yeah, I can sorta agree with that. The Wolkenritter? No way in hell they should've gotten off scot-free. They're directly responsible for the deaths of trillions of people and numerous worlds. That doesn't just go away. And as such they didn't.
I guess the Wolkenritter can (or did) invoke the Nuremberg Defense. After all, before Hayate, they were only following what the Master of the B.o.D commanded them, and this was because they were bound to do so. The first time they actually did something on their own will was to save Hayate from the curse of the B.o.D, despite Hayate telling them, (Okay, told Signum, because she's the leader) to forget about completing the book.
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#53
As it stands though they have proven themselves capable of independent action and can disobey the Master if/as needed. Regardless they've got a laundry list of crimes on their record, most of it involving death, be it targets they've harvested (which they probably did harvest fully in the past, and killed people) or completing the Book, causing the destruction of a planet. So no, even given their cooperation I cannot see the Wolkenritter ever getting away scot-free after the Book was finally stopped for good.

Dark Knight Gafgar said:
>people still arguing with PCHeintz
>after like three days straight
I'm from AnimeSuki, I can debate for days, man!
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#54
If she wasn't tried by Midchildean law, well, I already told you how Earth would treat her. She had to be held accountable by somebody. Because no matter which nation you think she belonged to she still broke the law. On Earth the country your in takes precedence. So lets look at at from that perspective.

1. Assault.
2. Assault with a weapon.
3. Assault with intent to kill.
4. Robbery.

Now, how many more crimes can I find? Fate broke Earth law and is lucky she wasn't tried on Earth. You can argue that the TSAB did the wrong thing all you want, but in the end they played nice. Following orders is no excuse for any of her crimes. And yet in the end her punishment ended and she got a good job. That wouldn't have happened in Japan.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#55
zeebee1 said:
If she wasn't tried by Midchildean law, well, I already told you how Earth would treat her. She had to be held accountable by somebody. Because no matter which nation you think she belonged to she still broke the law. On Earth the country your in takes precedence. So lets look at at from that perspective.

1. Assault.
2. Assault with a weapon.
3. Assault with intent to kill.
4. Robbery.

Now, how many more crimes can I find? Fate broke Earth law and is lucky she wasn't tried on Earth. You can argue that the TSAB did the wrong thing all you want, but in the end they played nice. Following orders is no excuse for any of her crimes. And yet in the end her punishment ended and she got a good job. That wouldn't have happened in Japan.
Um...

4. Salvage operation.

The first three could be considered assault against Nanoha as she was the instigator... I've said clear from the start Nanoha could have in theory pressed charges, but knew she would not. Chrono probably could do little, since the TSAB seems to not have earth connections for extradition for trial... since neither were Jap citizens, not sure how that would fall, but not in TSAB terr and Chrono went after her.

Chrono's intro had him bulling his way into a fight between Nanoha and Fate... I don't really care what happens to him per se, but he is neither a Japanese citizen, nor was he attacking one, but he was technically interfering with a citizen defending herself.
 

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#56
PCHeintz72 said:
zeebee1 said:
If she wasn't tried by Midchildean law, well, I already told you how Earth would treat her. She had to be held accountable by somebody. Because no matter which nation you think she belonged to she still broke the law. On Earth the country your in takes precedence. So lets look at at from that perspective.

1. Assault.
2. Assault with a weapon.
3. Assault with intent to kill.
4. Robbery.

Now, how many more crimes can I find? Fate broke Earth law and is lucky she wasn't tried on Earth. You can argue that the TSAB did the wrong thing all you want, but in the end they played nice. Following orders is no excuse for any of her crimes. And yet in the end her punishment ended and she got a good job. That wouldn't have happened in Japan.
Um...

4. Salvage operation.

The first three could be considered assault against Nanoha as she was the instigator... I've said clear from the start Nanoha could have in theory pressed charges, but knew she would not. Chrono probably could do little, since the TSAB seems to not have earth connections for extradition for trial... since neither were Jap citizens, not sure how that would fall, but not in TSAB terr and Chrono went after her.

Chrono's intro had him bulling his way into a fight between Nanoha and Fate... I don't really care what happens to him per se, but he is neither a Japanese citizen, nor was he attacking one, but he was technically interfering with a citizen defending herself.
So, you wanted him to let Nanoha and Fate duke it out first?

You sure make the strangest suggestions there buddy.
 

jaredstar

Well-Known Member
#57
nope as i recall the reason he stopped the fight was becasue their magical output was stating to cause problems.

that said much like dumbledore haters i think you are seeing crap that just isnt there.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#58
I'm surprised he's even seeing our responses with how willfully blind he is. The TSAB isn't any more corrupt than the average larrge government body. The only difference is we get to see what they hide in their basement.
 

ragnarok1337

Well-Known Member
#59
Dark Knight Gafgar said:
>people still arguing with PCHeintz
>after like three days straight


Guys, I think Gafgar's right. If PCHeintz still has a hate-on for the TSAB after countless rebuttals and counterarguments, then he either suffers from mental retardation or is a troll. Let's just drop it.
 

Gx Hero

Well-Known Member
#60
Agreed.

Ultimately we do get to see what the TSAB has hidden, mostly, but people continuously think they have other hidden dark sides or stuff like that.

THe TSAB is suppose to be the ultimate government where peace is achieved by removing many of the causes, lost logia which might be misused or used for weapons first. Second united government which kills a lot of the crud we see or suspect exists in our own government.

My complaint is the idocy of Regius's underlings. They could have stopped him by reporting it to the navy, one of the three ace's or the Sankt Kaiser Church. Ultimately it was they who let it get out of hand. After all Hayate knew the dangers of AMF and formed riot force six.

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#61
Hoki said:
Most of us don't really believe the TSAB is a morally perfect organization.
Agreed, but...


After all, they did pull off some really shady stuff
"They" were the Brains and the people working for the brains, which was alltogether a conspiracy within the TSAB that did not have official approval.

It's not fair to lump the entire TSAB under that label.


like trying to turn Caro into a WMD just because she can't control her dragons
I could be misremembering, but I don't think any "tried" to do that, or even meant it seriously.

At the very least, it's possible that it was a sort of sarcastic statement. The person who said it couldn't see any way to put Caro's talents to use without causing massive destruction.

So like, "If we attempt to use her as a magical asset in any way, it could only possibly be as a bomb! I'm dead serious, we can't garauntee her safety or the safety of any one else if we put her in any kind of dangerous situation! It's inhumane and unthinkable to use a little girl like a disposable bomb."

This person could have been arguing for placing a Limiter on Caro. That's exactly what they did with Lutecia, after all, which rendered her virtually powerless, and it would have been a humane solution for Caro had Fate not taken responsiblity for her.
 

Gx Hero

Well-Known Member
#62
THat is True but for Lutecia I think there were additional reasons, mainly due to her age and possible influence, plus if someone did something and she disapeared most would not notice till it was to late.

ANd your probably right. Perhapse they are now models for Hayate's and Carims cosplay as punishment. or subject to try Shamals cooking
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#63
Sunder the Gold said:
After all, they did pull off some really shady stuff
"They" were the Brains and the people working for the brains, which was alltogether a conspiracy within the TSAB that did not have official approval.

It's not fair to lump the entire TSAB under that label.
I think you might be cutting the difference between "The TSAB" and "The ones who control everything within the TSAB" a little too fine.

And anyway, that crew that locked up Lily in Forces shows that the TSAB was still cool with horrific human experimentation even after Due flushed the Brain Gang.

Or they straight-up didn't know what this lab was up to at all when they sent Signum to nail the people they told her to, in which case...

Well, in the past I've said that the Main Cast in Nanoha isn't evil like some in TSAB are, they're just super-complacent, which is a different kind of sin for a military officer.

Well, since every plot of every season (except Vivid's nonsense) revolves around "Horrible things shadowy TSAB operatives did biting people in the butt", I tend to think of the TSAB as being, nominally, the protagonists and the antagonists, where the story is about them cleaning up their own messes. Or sweeping them back under the carpet.
 

keroko

Well-Known Member
#64
daniel_gudman said:
And anyway, that crew that locked up Lily in Forces shows that the TSAB was still cool with horrific human experimentation even after Due flushed the Brain Gang.

Or they straight-up didn't know what this lab was up to at all when they sent Signum to nail the people they told her to, in which case...
There's nothing to indicate the crew that locked up Lily was part of the TSAB at all though. They were more likely a part of Vandein's little gig. Signum didn't find anything suspicious was because these criminals were already pretty much done moving most of their stuff in the first place.
 
#65
The Brain do not command the current Legendary Three Admirals. They do not control the whole TSAB.

If they did, they would not need to work so directly with Regius, or keep their involvement with him secret from the rest of the TSAB. Regius would be getting his orders from his immediate superior officer, instead.

Also, the Brains would have prevented the formation of Riot Force 6.
 

Gx Hero

Well-Known Member
#66
Missed my point oh well. And the TSAB is not actualy behind Lilly or the facility she was being held at. FIrst off given someone else that much firepower and can't be destroyed is dangerous.

If anything I think the TSAB has learned their lesson. After all it nearly backfired in their face especialy when the ground forces would have been beaten is quite humilating. Especialy when the 108th battalion who basicly was a major part of the counter attack.
 

keroko

Well-Known Member
#67
Actually, the other branches of the TSAB had been studying anti-AMF during StrikerS. It's where Nanoha & co got the idea in the first place, after all. It was only the ground forces who hadn't incorporated training against it because Regius held it back (and for a reason, AMF was one of the prime defenses keeping the TSAB out of the cyborg research labs).
 
#68
Hoki said:
The recruitment itself isn't that bad I think. After all the Children being recruited were given a choice. Nanoha chose to join because she was looking for a purpose in life, and apparently found it as a TSAB mage. Fate joined out of a sense of duty to prevent cases like hers to happen, Erio and Caro joined on their own free will. It's not like the TSAB was forcefully recruiting children who are or have the potential to become combat mages. If they were, then the setting in Vivid wouldn't happen.

I think the TSAB manipulate them,no?
 

keroko

Well-Known Member
#69
Van Silverlight said:
I think the TSAB manipulate them,no?
Given that Vivid has shown us a whole slew of very powerful young mages, quite a few of them older than Nanoha & Co were when they were recruited, who were not in any way shown to be manipulated into joining the TSAB, it's safe to say no.
 
#70
If I may ask,what do you all think about replacing TSAB with another government,for an example,a monarchy government?
 

Akiyoshi

Well-Known Member
#71
Van Silverlight said:
If I may ask,what do you all think about replacing TSAB with another government,for an example,a monarchy government?
Going back tot he days of Old Belka xD?
 

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#72
Akiyoshi said:
Van Silverlight said:
If I may ask,what do you all think about replacing TSAB with another government,for an example,a monarchy government?
Going back tot he days of Old Belka xD?
Vivio would technically be the next in line if that were to happen, right?
 
#73
How about put someone new on the throne?Either someone who is not in royal family in Old Belka or a descendant of Olieve's(or whatever her name is,I don't remember.)relatives.What do you guys think?
 

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#74
Van Silverlight said:
How about put someone new on the throne?Either someone who is not in royal family in Old Belka or a descendant of Olieve's(or whatever her name is,I don't remember.)relatives.What do you guys think?
Vivio is the direct descendant of Olivie. More specifically, she's Olivie's clone.
 
#75
Hoki said:
Van Silverlight said:
How about put someone new on the throne?Either someone who is not in royal family in Old Belka or a descendant of Olieve's(or whatever her name is,I don't remember.)relatives.What do you guys think?
Vivio is the direct descendant of Olivie. More specifically, she's Olivie's clone.
I know.What I mean is Olivie's relatives(Not Olivie but her family members,like her cousin maybe)descendant.
 
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