Nasuverse Concept characters I made a while back

[toraneko]

Sounds interesting. His RM seems like it'd actually be surprisingly easy to use.

Really, Gravity Blessing seems more like a pseudo-Marble Phantasm than a Reality Marble. Current theories on gravity have it that micro-black holes open and close randomly, everywhere, constantly; in theory, given the right circumstances, one of those could stabilize and mature into a strong force, or alternately be snuffed out once this occurs.

Using a quote from the Type-Moon Wikia page on Marble Phantasms:

The English name comes from a metaphor. When drawing a marble in a bag of black marbles with a 1% chance of drawing the one white marble, Marble Phantasm is the ability to raise that chance to 100% and definitely pick the white one amongst all the black ones; this remains within the laws of the world.

For comparison purpose, following a similar metaphor, a Reality Marble would be, on the other hand, the ability to turn all the marbles into white ones; this is something the world wouldn't naturally allow. While this can be considered to be more efficient, this is, however, the only one effect such a Reality Marble could specialize in.

Given that there is a theoretical chance of gravity anomalies anytime, anywhere, occurring naturally, Gravity Blessing - creating or amplifying gravitic disturbances on the fly - acts more like a Marble Phantasm than a Reality Marble.

I suspect that, despite its utterly broken levels of theoretical power and applications, Gravity Blessing wouldn't actually be that costly a Reality Marble to use in terms of prana, since the World probably wouldn't be fighting it too hard.

However, 'catching' and utilizing gravity events that occur (and normally end) in fractions of a nanosecond would be taxing on the mind. Perhaps the most important part of the RM would be the necessary 'overclocking' of the brain it would take to do this. (The World wouldn't fight against that at all, given the precedent set by Nrvnqsr Chaos.) That is bound to have some dangerous long-term side effects. My guess is that limiting it to a three-meter radius was an instinctive move to prevent brain trauma due to information overload from detecting too many gravity events.

Or maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong. I dunno.

 

[Avider]

...Gravity Blessing wouldn't actually be that costly a Reality Marble to use in terms of prana, since the World probably wouldn't be fighting it too hard.

Not really, the World would still try to crush it because he's human. It doesn't matter whether or not the effect is natural, the user is what counts. To the World, spirits and demons are natural users, but humans are not, so the World will try to crush a human's Reality Marble. To be exact, if a user is not a spiritual being, the World will try to crush his Reality Marble.

Really, Gravity Blessing seems more like a pseudo-Marble Phantasm than a Reality Marble.

Both Marble Phantasms and Reality Marbles reshapes reality to the vision of its user. However, Reality Marbles are limited to the single aspect that defines the user, natural or unnatural, whereas Marble Phantasms can be used for any transformations within the realm of nature. Since Gravity Blessing is restricted to one aspect, it should be classified as a Reality Marble, even if it does utilize something natural. Though you're right, it is a pseudo-Marble Phantasm, one that is called Reality Marble.

As for the mechanics of Gravity Blessing itself, I won't speculate.

Mmm, what if Zhishen is a demon? Since a Reality Marble is the common sense of a demon's world, it would explain why he could so easily realize his, and why he didn't collapse out of prana exhaustion, since the World wouldn't be trying to crush his Reality Marble.

How he realized his Reality Marble also bugs me; it seems too easy, too typical. Falling to death - gain secret power. /reroll common shonen's powerups. Guess I'm just sick of it, since it kept on nagging me every time I think about it.

I'd think that since a Reality Marble defines an aspect of one's soul, to realize it is to realize that aspect. A fall just doesn't seem special for real soul searching to me.

 

[toraneko]

...Gravity Blessing wouldn't actually be that costly a Reality Marble to use in terms of prana, since the World probably wouldn't be fighting it too hard.

Not really, the World would still try to crush it because he's human. It doesn't matter whether or not the effect is natural, the user is what counts. To the World, spirits and demons are natural users, but humans are not, so the World will try to crush a human's Reality Marble. To be exact, if a user is not a spiritual being, the World will try to crush his Reality Marble.

I don't deny that the World would be actively crushing his Reality Marble. However, I have it in mind that the more severely the effect contradicts the World's rules, the more harshly the World acts to counteract it. Things like Unlimited Blade Works, in which something is conjured from nothing, defy the natural order in a very strong way. Nrvnqsr's Lair of the Beast King, on the other hand, is his own body, so overlaying his soul's landscape on it means nothing to the World.

I think that something only pertaining to manipulating a normally-unobservable part of nature - neither creating nor destroying, merely altering - wouldn't be much different in scope than normal thaumaturgy, with the exception that a drastic change in perception would be needed to do so (which, by Nrvnqsr's set precedent, wouldn't be touched on). The World would oppose it, but wouldn't crack down as hard as some other RMs.

At least, that's the way I see it - and that's assuming his Reality Marble works the way I think it does.

Since Gravity Blessing is restricted to one aspect, it should be classified as a Reality Marble, even if it does utilize something natural. Though you're right, it is a pseudo-Marble Phantasm, one that is called Reality Marble.

That's the gist of what I was saying. It's limited, in that it only alters gravity, thus it's no real Marble Phantasm, but the potential applications just for the altering of gravity - even in such a limited area - approaches that of Marble Phantasm.

With gravity under your control, you could make things heavy and crush them, or lighten them and carry them as if they were nothing. You could nullify or reverse gravity and achieve unassisted flight, or (with a little skill) bend light waves around yourself and become completely invisible (though this would leave the user blind, since no light waves would be entering his eyes either). It could even be used to squeeze space in front of the user and expand it behind, making the user able to travel at uncanny speed.
But, Zhishen doesn't seem to realize the potential he's wasting. Maybe that's for the better.

 

[Avider]

A Reality Marble is just a subset of Marble Phantasm, so yea, saying that it approaches Marble Phantasm is...the definition? It's not like a Reality Marble is that much different from Marble Phantasm, only that it's much more limited, and can go beyond nature (the turning every marbles into white).

I guess I don't like how you put it as being less of a Reality Marble and more of Marble Phantasm. It's not less. On a continuum of Reality Marble to Marble Phantasm, while it might be closer to Marble Phantasm than, say, Unlimited Blade Works, but it is very much squarely in the classification of Reality Marble.

Something like this:

RM------------------|-----------------MP
 ? ? ?UBW ?GB

Things like Unlimited Blade Works, in which something is conjured from nothing, defy the natural order in a very strong way. Nrvnqsr's Lair of the Beast King, on the other hand, is his own body, so overlaying his soul's landscape on it means nothing to the World.

My view of it is that the World has to recognize the Reality Marble before it decides whether or not to crush it, since what it doesn't know, it doesn't know to stop. Nrvngsr's deployed his Reality Marble within his own body, so it is shielded from the World's senses. Unlimited Blade Works, though active at all time, is only opposed when the inner world is brought out.

Though it does make sense that the more unnatural the phenomenon, the more actively the World will try to crush it. It's just unnatural enough as it is for a non-spiritual being to have a Reality Marble.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Sigh... I hate to do this, but as an avid fan of the four great classics of China, I'm going to have to be nitpicky.

Lets start with the name shall we? First, L? and Lu are two completely different characters. Heck, they're not even homophones; they're pronounced quite differently. For one, I've found that words containing the letter ? is often unpronounceable for westerners (I should know. It's in my own name after all, and I finally chose to be called by a nickname after 3 years of hearing it getting butchered by everyone around me). So, the whole connecting Lu Zhishen to L? Bu... Doesn't work that well.

Second bit has to do with a specific phrase you used: most famous of the Liangshan bandits. Now that is just plain not true. Yes, Lu Zhishen the berserker monk is one of the most well known of the 108 bandits, but most famous? I think you're discounting others such as Wu Song, Li Kui, Wu Yong, Sun Jian, Lin Chong, etc... Really, this is only a bit of irritation on my part due to the wording you used, but still...

I am well aware of the difference between the characters in the names of L? Bu and Lu Zhishen. Note that I used a different spelling for the OC's name rather than using the conventional one.

In short:

The family name (L?) comes from L? Bu.

The given name (Zhishen) comes from the Liangshan berserk monk, Lu Zhishen.

It's a fusion of the two, not an attempt to make them look the same.

I should have clarified right away, though. My bad.

As for the second point... I'll acquiesce, especially since the notoriety of the Liangshan bandits varies depending on the region. In some of the northern regions of China, the most popular of them is someone most people forget even existed - Gu Dasao, the spear mistress, who was said to be better than even her husband with a weapon.

So I supposed 'most famous' is a totally subjective term.

Again, my bad.

I'd think that since a Reality Marble defines an aspect of one's soul, to realize it is to realize that aspect. A fall just doesn't seem special for real soul searching to me.

Depends on how much you believe that old belief that one's life flashes before his eyes as he's about to die. Some pretty deep soul-searching could happen if it's true.

I'll admit it's cliched, but it's also true that some Reality Marbles don't particularly seem to activate after much soul-searching, or any at all. Sacchin's activated pretty much as soon as she became a Dead Apostle, and given how she was too busy killing humans, I somewhat doubt she had much time for soul-searching...

But, Zhishen doesn't seem to realize the potential he's wasting. Maybe that's for the better.

I never really delved into Zhishen past the base concept I posted here, but if I may hazard a guess as the creator... it's partly that he doesn't realize the potential, and partly that he instinctively doesn't WANT to.

He even refers to his power as 'a nice trick' and nothing more - it has uses, but Zhishen prefers to just consider it something nice to have if he is in trouble. He's about the least ambitious person you'll ever meet, which is a stark contrast with the potential amount of power he has.

Which is a good thing, since overusing it could very well have fatal consequences. I don't think any sort of body is meant to withstand the stress of messing with a basic force of Nature itself, let alone a mere human body, and God only knows what kind of bad shit using gravity alteration could do to a human's body in the long run. Not to mention that if he screws up while using it on himself... well, I don't think I need to draw you a picture.

And I'm not even touching the 'power corrputs' card...

 

[Avider]

Sacchin's activated pretty much as soon as she became a Dead Apostle, and given how she was too busy killing humans, I somewhat doubt she had much time for soul-searching...

Probably a bad term on my part. Coming to know that aspect of your own soul? Is there a more succinct term for that?

I'd have to say that losing your humanity and gaining an unquenchable blood-thirst, slaughtering what used to be your own kind, would be both bloody and dramatic, enough for a realization of your Emptiness. If that doesn't clinches it, then the lost of your chance to be with your crush/obsession would seal the deal. That's sad.


F O E...

*twitches*

 

[GenocideHeart]

F O E...

*twitches*

:evil2: :evil2: :evil2: :evil2:

 

[toraneko]

I guess I don't like how you put it as being less of a Reality Marble and more of Marble Phantasm.? It's not less.? On a continuum of Reality Marble to Marble Phantasm, while it might be closer to Marble Phantasm than, say, Unlimited Blade Works, but it is very much squarely in the classification of Reality Marble.

Well, I didn't mean it like that. It's definitely a Reality Marble, to be sure. The main effect of his RM wouldn't last beyond the moment he ceased to deploy it, unlike a true Marble Phantasm. I mostly mentioned its similarity to Marble Phantasm in the sense of its versatility, and how strongly the World might react to it.

My view of it is that the World has to recognize the Reality Marble before it decides whether or not to crush it, since what it doesn't know, it doesn't know to stop.

Hmm. I guess this is where we can drop this, due to a difference of interpretation of the source material.

I think the World acts against Reality Marbles because it's a single individual not just interfering with the natural order, but forcing his own rules upon it by overlaying the inner landscape of his soul onto it.
My theory regarding Gravity Blessing is simply that the World sees this as a less severe violation of its rules than some other Reality Marbles, thus the World would react less harshly. This does not mean that the World would not act to crush it like (almost) any other Reality Marble, merely that it would not place it as such a high priority - meaning, it would put less 'pressure' on it, and thus the cost of deploying it (in terms of prana) would be less.

I'd have to say that losing your humanity and gaining an unquenchable blood-thirst, slaughtering what used to be your own kind, would be both bloody and dramatic, enough for a realization of your Emptiness. If that doesn't clinches it, then the lost of your chance to be with your crush/obsession would seal the deal. That's sad.

All that, and you don't think Zhishen would have had a chance to develop a Reality Marble when faced with imminent death? The most powerful drive any living entity has is continued survival. It's an instinct that operates on all levels of consciousness.
Granted, it's not likely to work at all unless the kid is one of those one-in-a-million wild talents (like Satsuki) with the inherent potential for it, but it does make sense. And it also explains why the Reality Marble manifested in the way it did (gravity control, possibly accelerated consciousness).

This:

Depends on how much you believe that old belief that one's life flashes before his eyes as he's about to die. Some pretty deep soul-searching could happen if it's true.

answers it pretty well.

I never really delved into Zhishen past the base concept I posted here, but if I may hazard a guess as the creator... it's partly that he doesn't realize the potential, and partly that he instinctively doesn't WANT to.
He even refers to his power as 'a nice trick' and nothing more - it has uses, but Zhishen prefers to just consider it something nice to have if he is in trouble. He's about the least ambitious person you'll ever meet, which is a stark contrast with the potential amount of power he has.

Hmm. Interesting. So, is he trying to avoid the notice of the Clock Tower, or perhaps some other mages' association? I do recall something about how the Western Mages' Associations have little to no dealings with Chinese mages, to the point of not knowing whether or not a Chinese Mages' Association even exists (and some commentary on how the Chinese have a completely different magic system compared to the Westerners).
That leaves you a lot of leeway in deciding his background, character, motivations, connections, etc.


P.S.: nice sig

 

[Avider]

All that, and you don't think Zhishen would have had a chance to develop a Reality Marble when faced with imminent death? The most powerful drive any living entity has is continued survival. It's an instinct that operates on all levels of consciousness.
Granted, it's not likely to work at all unless the kid is one of those one-in-a-million wild talents (like Satsuki) with the inherent potential for it, but it does make sense. And it also explains why the Reality Marble manifested in the way it did (gravity control, possibly accelerated consciousness).

The deterioration of Satsuki into an inhuman monster with a lost of the things that once mattered to her speaks to me more for RM realization.

Depends on how much you believe that old belief that one's life flashes before his eyes as he's about to die. Some pretty deep soul-searching could happen if it's true.

What I thought would be the rationalization on why he'd realize it. I don't like it because it's a clichÚ, one that lacks real substance. Need power? Jump off into that dark chasm there, get thrown off this mountain here, get poked off that cliff there. In addition, it doesn't allow for much character development, so that's another strike.

And it also explains why the Reality Marble manifested in the way it did (gravity control, possibly accelerated consciousness).

Wait, what? How else would Gravity Blessing manifest?

 

[toraneko]

Wait, what?? How else would Gravity Blessing manifest?

You misunderstand what I meant.

A Reality Marble is a reflection of the inner landscape of the user's soul. The user's experiences, especially the ones that define them as a person, determine what the Reality Marble is like - what its appearance is, and what it does.
Compare Shirou and Archer for a second. They're the same person, and they live (or used to) their lives by the same ideals and goals, so Unlimited Blade Works functions the same for both of them. However, EMIYA's inner landscape is bleak and full of machinery, reflecting his jaded and cynical nature and his feeling of being bound by a cruel fate to do things he hates again and again. By contrast, Shirou's inner landscape has a blue sky and green, grassy hills, reflective of his still uncorrupted ideals and relative innocence.

Zhishen manifested his Reality Marble like he did because of that tense, eternity-in-a-moment time when he was falling to his imminent death. "Falling is bad! If I fall like this, I'm going to die! I don't want to fall anymore!"

It's certain that one has to have the potential to realize a Reality Marble, or else no amount of soul-searching, meditation, life-changing experience, or threat of imminent death will allow them to have one. Zhishen was obviously one of those one-in-a-million folks with the potential to have one.

The fall was just what clinched it for him, I think. It had to be a very life-changing experience, not just "Oh fuck, I'm dead."

If he hadn't had that accident, it might have been something else, and then his Reality Marble might not have come out as Gravity Blessing, but rather something different - or it might not have come out at all.

In the Nasuverse, it's very true that our experiences make us who we are.


I just had the thought, perhaps Zhishen's unambitiousness is caused by a fear of heights? After all, what goes up must come down, and this applies to both physics and status.
He's obviously not gotten to the point where he realizes, "Hey, with this power, I can cheat that rule!" But as GH said, he's not touching on the "power corrupts" stuff.

 

[Avider]

I thought that was what you meant. And I believe you're mistaken, at least in the belief that the person named Zhishen could manifest any other Reality Marbles.

I would think the reason that Reality Marbles are rare is because it requires a specific kind of soul to define one aspect. So more likely than not, had Zhishen been drastically different, he wouldn't have the ability to manifest a Reality Marble at all.

But it's a moot point. Zhishen can only manifest one Reality Marble, and that is Gravity Blessing. Shirou's differences with EMIYA is merely cosmetic, reflected in the minute details of the scenery (note though, the gears are still present in Shirou's UBW). His soul remained essentially the same, hence UBW.

The only way for Zhishen to manifest any other kind of Reality Marble is for him to lead a completely different life, essentially be a different person.

It's certain that one has to have the potential to realize a Reality Marble, or else no amount of soul-searching, meditation, life-changing experience, or threat of imminent death will allow them to have one.

I don't agree with this, this assumes that the Reality Marble comes before the aspect of the soul. Meaning, you are born with the ability to realize a Reality Marble, and depending on how your soul turns out, you can get many different kinds of Reality Marble.

I think that's wrong. I believe that everybody (with magic abilities of course, not the mundane population) is born with the same potential, but experiences in life would shape their souls differently. Those whose souls define specific molds then would be able to realize a Reality Marble fitting of that mold. Yet only few souls define those molds, leading to its rarity.

Ah, but that's all speculation on the nature of Reality Marble, you might be right, or I might be right, let's get back on point.

If he hadn't had that accident, it might have been something else, and then his Reality Marble might not have come out as Gravity Blessing, but rather something different - or it might not have come out at all.

It's almost without a doubt that, barring any drastic life changes, such as what happened to Shirou when he was a kid or what happened to Satsuki, Zhishen will always, if he manifests a Reality Marble, get Gravity Blessing. His soul has already been shaped by his life experiences, Gravity Blessing is already within him, he just needed to realize it. It's not that he has an empty RM slot in him, and falling filled the slot with Gravity Blessing. It's that he has Gravity Blessing in him, and falling brought it out to the surface.

Urgh...what a convoluted way to get to this point.

 

[toraneko]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. My reasoning is solid, and so is yours, but both rely on interpretations and assumptions that cannot at this time be proven or disproven by canon material or author statements.

If this keeps on, we'll be debating whether or not Schroedinger's Cat is alive or not without being able to open the box, metaphorically speaking.

Suffice it to say, I disagree, but I respect your opinion and reasoning.

 

[Avider]

Agreed.

Just wanted to point out that Reality Marble realization isn't as convenient as what would save your life at that time. The Reality Marble you get is based on what defines you, not what can save your butt if you're in trouble.

It just sounded like you were saying, since Zhishen was falling, of course he'll get something that make him unfall, since that'll implies that if he were drowning, of course he'll get something that'll make him undrown, as if what defines him can be changed like the flip of a switch.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Time for the third cha-rac-ter~~~~~~~~

Lemme know what you think. And if the name looks familiar, it is because I also used it for a RP that never got off the ground here on TFF...

--------

GREUTIN EICHMANN

Gender: Male
Birthday: October 19th
Height: 203 centimeters
Weight: 118 kg.
Blood Type: O negative
Hair color: Grey
Eye Color: Black (right) and white (left, he is blind)

A former member of the Teutonic order, Greutin left the Teutonic Knights following an unfortunate accident that left him sightless from his left eye, with two severed fingers on his right hand, grey hair despite being only in his early thirties, and with an apparently cursed blue gem embedded in his chest, right over his heart.

Despite his scarred face and intimidating size (he's over two meters tall and massively muscled), Greutin is a kind, fun-loving person who doesn't mind partying with friends and has a peculiar obsession with strategy games on PC.

The real problem when dealing with him is the gem embedded in his chest. It is actually a powerful, semi-sentient alchemic artifact called Riskbreaker, which influences probability and causes all variable events involving him to be extreme, for good or bad - in other words, if Greutin is lucky, he will probably be REALLY lucky... and if he's unlucky, it will be truly horrible luck.

The Riskbreaker, however, will never make his luck so bad it can jeopardize his continued survival, and seems to be unable to affect anyone but Greutin - although, when he really finds himself deep in it, people near him can be caught up in the events and get hurt nonetheless. That last issue is what caused him to leave the Teutonic order after several of his colleagues were severely injured when they got caught up in an accident caused by the Riskbreaker.

The Riskbreaker apparently rooted itself in Greutin's heart, so removing it without killing him is impossible. It also seems to take particular glee in the misery it can inflict on Greutin, as the bad luck it causes is exponentially greater than the good luck. However, it seems to have a modicum of compassion for its victim/host, as it allowed fate to swing his way in several key moments of his life.

Greutin has attracted the attention of several high-level alchemists, but the accursed gem somehow manages to defy the understanding of even the most skilled alchemists in the world. Greutin himself is resigned to his fate - he doubts he will ever be free of the Riskbreaker's influence...

--------

There, last one. This one is a bit mehish, but hey, I'll feed him to you.

And yes, Riskbreaker is a Vagrant Story reference.

 

[toraneko]

Well, I don't really have much to say about Eichmann. He does have a bit of potential, but there's not much to discuss without seeing how he ends up being used in a story.