DC Revamp

[Meinos Kaen]

So, it seems that DC is reworking the whole universe and rebooting it. Like it? Dislike it? I guess it depends on what changes, on who gets kept and who goes away. Right now? I'm happy as fuck. HAPPY. AS. FUCK? WHY?!

JASON TODD ALIAS THE RED HOOD IS GETTING HIS OWN TITLE AND HIS OWN TEAM, BITCHES!!! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

... Ah-rumph. Seriously, this made my day because I'm a Jason Todd fanboy, but the changes are many. Till now we've gotten Dick Grayson returning as Nightwing, Barbara Gordon returning as Batgirl, a new Catwoman ongoing... Thoughts?

 

[Ryuugi]

I see Red Arrow.

I see two arms.

Does that mean his daughter didn't die?

If yes, I will...be less upset.

You know, now that I've gotten some time to stew it over, maybe this won't be all bad. A lot of stupid choices have been made and while retconing the whole line just to get rid of them is kind of extreme...well, it does get rid of them.

Am I happy with this Revamp? No. Not yet, at least. But DC comics has been around for fuck-if-I-know years and this isn't the first questionable decision they've made.

I'll probably check out the comics when they come out.

 

[bissek]

Hopefully if Cass returns they'll make sure to only have her written by people who actually understand her character.

 

[A Curious Stranger]

Is he going to be a redhead (Seriously Morrison? A Red headed stepchild? Fuck you)?

 

[ttestagr]

Barbara Gordon as Batgirl again fills me with a rage that is terrible to behold.

 

[crazyfoxdemon]

Barbara Gordon as Batgirl again fills me with a rage that is terrible to behold.

I agree.. In my mind Barbara will ALWAYS be Oracle and Cass will ALWAYS be Batgirl..

 

[DhampyrX2]

This will hopefully mark the death of Batman Inc and the return of all being right in the world. Thank. You. God.

Babs back in the Batgirl uniform has a classic feel to it that I like. Dick being Nightwing was very much needed. Hopefully we'll see Tim back as Robin. The possible return of Lian to the land of the living has me smiling. Jason being an actual hero (instead of a bad Punisher rip-off) with Kory and Roy looks awesome. Especially since he has ties to them back in the Teen Titans period so it's not an total ass pull to make that team a reality.

We might see the disappearance of the Rainbow Rings in the GL titles.


Yeah, all in all this has serious potential.

 

[ttestagr]

I really like Stephanie in the Batgirl costume. Better than the Spoiler or Robin, and I really like the character.

And honestly, Dick Grayson as Batman has been a fucking long time coming. I'm pissed that they're getting rid of it so soon. Plus whatever your thoughts on Batman Inc. its something new in a medium that desperately needs a hint of originality.

Barbara back as Batgirl? Go kill yourself Dhampyr for that opinion. The most and greatest of that character's development has been creating and maintaining that identity and purpose while dealing with being crippled. To handwave it away is a travesty, and honestly offensive to anybody with any kind of taste.

Long story short, Johns is a nostalgia fag of the highest order, proven considering what's been happening with DC lately and all of the Silver Age characters coming back. It will be the eventual death of the company, since new readers aren't coming and the old time fanbase just shrinks.

So, I really want to kick him in the balls.

 

[Lord Raine]

ttestagr

u mad ttestagr?

If everything started out perfect, they would have nowhere to go but down. Oracle didn't exist until Barbara-as-Batgirl got shot in the spine by the Joker. Why give up the possibility to show that scene? They've got as many runs as they want this to take. There's no reason to start off with Oracle right away. Hell, I'm kind of disappointed they're starting out with Nightwing already in play. I've always felt that the idea of Batman actively letting people come out with him as daddy's little helper was a bit absurd. Batman does what he does to make sure trageties like what happened to him don't happen anymore. A sidekick would kind of fuck that up, seeing how he's constantly endangering another person with a life and a family.

I've always wanted to see a story where Batman has Barbara and Dick helping him as Batgirl and Robin, only for Batgirl to get crippled by the Joker. Batman realizes that he's partially to blame for letting the kids run around with him, and refuses any further sidekicking. Dick goes on to become Nightwing, because just because Batman said go away doesn't mean he'll stop fighting crime, and Barbara becomes Oracle, which still allows her to help Batman without actually being in harm's way.

It creates this wonderful dynamic of Bruce being both proud and pissed at Dick, Dick being rebellious but firm in his conviction to fight crime, Bruce impressed but worried for Barbara, and Barbara worried over both of them and trying to help in any way she can by brokering information.

Of course, that's not liable to happen in this reboot, seeing how Nightwing already exists, but still. One can dream.

Seeing how Oracle at her best requires a pedigree as Batgirl, I fail to see your problem.

 

[zeebee1]

But why replace everything? Why not just make an offshoot, like Marvel did with Ultimate. And we know how Ultimate ended up. We'll probably just end with another reboot saying the old timeline is back.

 

[Ryuugi]

Barbara back as Batgirl?? Go kill yourself Dhampyr for that opinion.? The most and greatest of that character's development has been creating and maintaining that identity and purpose while dealing with being crippled.? To handwave it away is a travesty, and honestly offensive to anybody with any kind of taste.

Eh...

Okay, I'll start by saying that I love Oracle as a character. She's an extremely interesting take on the character of Barbara Gordon. The change from Batgirl to Oracle was something I doubt anyone saw in advance and Birds of Prey was awesome (in my opinion...).

Having said that, handwaving away her crippling injury really isn't a problem. It may insult some people that she can walk again, but honestly, the injury was handwaved in. She's bound to her wheelchair for no real reason.
They could have made her able to walk again at any time.

Barbara lives in a world with Alien Technology, Magic, Gods, and everything in between. All it would take to put her back on her feet is Bruce, at any time, day or night, picking up a phone and calling Superman, or Star Labs, or one of the hundred other guys he knew and say 'Hey, could you do me a favor? Batgirl needs her legs back.'

And they'd say yes, because he's Batman and a friend and idol of hundreds of heroes. Then, the next day, she'd be walking again.

Is this fair to all those readers that a stuck to a chair in real life? Not really. But while you could say they handwaved the problem away, but you can't say it doesn't make sense. With intergalactic travel and Magic and Green Lantern Rings and Worm Hole tech and stuff that can bring back the fucking dead...well, you know. I mean, Zatanna could literally pop down and say 'walk again' backwards and that would be it.

Barbara can't walk because they handwaved the billion solutions. You can't really get that upset when someone remembers any of the ones they have easy access to (which, in her case, is pretty much all of them).

 

[Meinos Kaen]

Barbara back as Batgirl?á Go kill yourself Dhampyr for that opinion.á The most and greatest of that character's development has been creating and maintaining that identity and purpose while dealing with being crippled.á To handwave it away is a travesty, and honestly offensive to anybody with any kind of taste.

Eh...

Okay, I'll start by saying that I love Oracle as a character. She's an extremely interesting take on the character of Barbara Gordon. The change from Batgirl to Oracle was something I doubt anyone saw in advance and Birds of Prey was awesome (in my opinion...).

Having said that, handwaving away her crippling injury really isn't a problem. It may insult some people that she can walk again, but honestly, the injury was handwaved in. She's bound to her wheelchair for no real reason.
They could have made her able to walk again at any time.

Barbara lives in a world with Alien Technology, Magic, Gods, and everything in between. All it would take to put her back on her feet is Bruce, at any time, day or night, picking up a phone and calling Superman, or Star Labs, or one of the hundred other guys he knew and say 'Hey, could you do me a favor? Batgirl needs her legs back.'

And they'd say yes, because he's Batman and a friend and idol of hundreds of heroes. Then, the next day, she'd be walking again.

Is this fair to all those readers that a stuck to a chair in real life? Not really. But while you could say they handwaved the problem away, but you can't say it doesn't make sense. With intergalactic travel and Magic and Green Lantern Rings and Worm Hole tech and stuff that can bring back the fucking dead...well, you know. I mean, Zatanna could literally pop down and say 'walk again' backwards and that would be it.

Barbara can't walk because they handwaved the billion solutions. You can't really get that upset when someone remembers any of the ones they have easy access to (which, in her case, is pretty much all of them).

Basically this.

About the Jason book, I'm pretty excited about the creative team. Rockafort's art looks awesome, and the writer is the creator of Generation X and who did some marvellous things on Uncanny X-Men for 5 years. While I was surprised that they didn't give it to Winick, I am confident because Lo' is A Team Writer. He gets teams.

Also, he's been a stand up comedian. Jason needs his wit back.

 

[Ordo]

I think they may have gone too far. I personally would've enjoyed a story where Jason Todd slowly pulls his head out of his rear to be come his own man and a hero. Now we're just white washing everything he's done.

I'll keep an open mind, but that is the best I can do.

 

[bissek]

Barbara back as Batgirl?á Go kill yourself Dhampyr for that opinion.á The most and greatest of that character's development has been creating and maintaining that identity and purpose while dealing with being crippled.á To handwave it away is a travesty, and honestly offensive to anybody with any kind of taste.

Eh...

Okay, I'll start by saying that I love Oracle as a character. She's an extremely interesting take on the character of Barbara Gordon. The change from Batgirl to Oracle was something I doubt anyone saw in advance and Birds of Prey was awesome (in my opinion...).

Having said that, handwaving away her crippling injury really isn't a problem. It may insult some people that she can walk again, but honestly, the injury was handwaved in. She's bound to her wheelchair for no real reason.
They could have made her able to walk again at any time.

Barbara lives in a world with Alien Technology, Magic, Gods, and everything in between. All it would take to put her back on her feet is Bruce, at any time, day or night, picking up a phone and calling Superman, or Star Labs, or one of the hundred other guys he knew and say 'Hey, could you do me a favor? Batgirl needs her legs back.'

And they'd say yes, because he's Batman and a friend and idol of hundreds of heroes. Then, the next day, she'd be walking again.

Is this fair to all those readers that a stuck to a chair in real life? Not really. But while you could say they handwaved the problem away, but you can't say it doesn't make sense. With intergalactic travel and Magic and Green Lantern Rings and Worm Hole tech and stuff that can bring back the fucking dead...well, you know. I mean, Zatanna could literally pop down and say 'walk again' backwards and that would be it.

Barbara can't walk because they handwaved the billion solutions. You can't really get that upset when someone remembers any of the ones they have easy access to (which, in her case, is pretty much all of them).

I was under the impression that Barbara stayed crippled as a matter of personal principle. Since the easy cures aren't available to the rest of the world, she refuses to take one.

 

[Prince Charon]

I really like Stephanie in the Batgirl costume.á Better than the Spoiler or Robin, and I really like the character.á

Personally, I like Steph as Robin, most, but I don't mind her as Spoiler or Batgirl. I like Cass as anything Batty and heroic, so I'm going to be very annoyed if either of them, or Tim Drake, are written out of continuity. In fact, that's partly what inspired <a href='http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12117&view=findpost&p=11542949' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this post in the Comic Misc Ideas thread</a>, which I will quote for anyone to lazy to go look:

A lot of the characters who are being written out of existence by DC's latest idiocy wake up in a strange city. Superboy Prime (possibly Superman Prime) shows up on the public announcement screens, and tells them that their universe just got rebooted yet again, and as they would not exist in the new timeline, he brought them to Earth Prime, as he felt he owed them for the crap he pulled when he was nuts - and maybe they'll be able to stop him, if he loses it again. Before he brought them here, he built this city for them. Not sure where the city is, but perhaps is under the arctic ice cap, like a ginormous Fortress of Solitude.

Eventually, they determine that yeah, he's telling the truth, so now they have to deal with it.

I'll give it its own thread, if I can think of a good title, or somebody suggests one. 'Retconned Heroes on Earth Prime' doesn't have much of a ring to it, y'know?

And honestly, Dick Grayson as Batman has been a fucking long time coming.á I'm pissed that they're getting rid of it so soon.á Plus whatever your thoughts on Batman Inc. its something new in a medium that desperately needs a hint of originality.

I don't really disagree with this. The concept has a lot of potential, and if well written, would not suck. If its being retconned out, that's yet another 'well, why did you do it in the first place?!' thing. Mind you, Nightwing #1 could be about Tim Drake's first adventure as Nightwing, with Dick still being Batman, but I don't hold much hope for that. For all we know, it could be about <a href='http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Van-Zee_%28Earth-One%29' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Van Zee</a>.

I think they may have gone too far. I personally would've enjoyed a story where Jason Todd slowly pulls his head out of his rear to be come his own man and a hero. Now we're just white washing everything he's done.

I'll keep an open mind, but that is the best I can do.

This, I pretty much agree with. It most likely won't be as bad as we fear, or as good as it could be, but we really don't know if it'll be closer to one or the other.

There are supposed to be about 50 titles that have a #1 coming out, AFAIK. Does anyone have a list they can post?

 

[GenocideHeart]

This remonds me of the Age of Apocalypse reboot of Marvel comics, that all 'started' over with a new Issue 1 and new comic names... and while AoA was relatively decently received, that particular idea bombed badly.

 

[Prince Charon]

This remonds me of the Age of Apocalypse reboot of Marvel comics, that all 'started' over with a new Issue 1 and new comic names... and while AoA was relatively decently received, that particular idea bombed badly.

... and was retconned back to more-or-less the previous continuity.

 

[Ryuugi]

Barbara back as Batgirl?á Go kill yourself Dhampyr for that opinion.á The most and greatest of that character's development has been creating and maintaining that identity and purpose while dealing with being crippled.á To handwave it away is a travesty, and honestly offensive to anybody with any kind of taste.

Eh...

Okay, I'll start by saying that I love Oracle as a character. She's an extremely interesting take on the character of Barbara Gordon. The change from Batgirl to Oracle was something I doubt anyone saw in advance and Birds of Prey was awesome (in my opinion...).

Having said that, handwaving away her crippling injury really isn't a problem. It may insult some people that she can walk again, but honestly, the injury was handwaved in. She's bound to her wheelchair for no real reason.
They could have made her able to walk again at any time.

Barbara lives in a world with Alien Technology, Magic, Gods, and everything in between. All it would take to put her back on her feet is Bruce, at any time, day or night, picking up a phone and calling Superman, or Star Labs, or one of the hundred other guys he knew and say 'Hey, could you do me a favor? Batgirl needs her legs back.'

And they'd say yes, because he's Batman and a friend and idol of hundreds of heroes. Then, the next day, she'd be walking again.

Is this fair to all those readers that a stuck to a chair in real life? Not really. But while you could say they handwaved the problem away, but you can't say it doesn't make sense. With intergalactic travel and Magic and Green Lantern Rings and Worm Hole tech and stuff that can bring back the fucking dead...well, you know. I mean, Zatanna could literally pop down and say 'walk again' backwards and that would be it.

Barbara can't walk because they handwaved the billion solutions. You can't really get that upset when someone remembers any of the ones they have easy access to (which, in her case, is pretty much all of them).

I was under the impression that Barbara stayed crippled as a matter of personal principle. Since the easy cures aren't available to the rest of the world, she refuses to take one.

Yeah, she gave that reason in some comic. She didn't want the treatment if everyone else can't have it.

Thing is, that's a stupid reason.

Not everybody will ever be able to have something. Even if it becomes widely available, some won't be able to afford it (like with modrn doctors). And even if everyone could, doctors can't work all the time.

This isn't just true of doctors and medicine, either. Barbara uses technology people don't have access to, contacts they have access to; fuck, if we listed everything the Bat Clan has that normal people don't, we'd be here all day. ANd never complains about that.

But you know what's worse? Many of the DC cures could be made available to the public. Hell, Damien got a synthetic spine after being shot. So she's just stupid, basically.

Alan Moore didn't intend for The Killing Joke to happen in the normal DC Universe; the powers that be just overruled him.

What I'm saying is that, yeah, they've given us reason why she can't walk again, but they all work off of handwavium.

I mean, Booster Gold went back in time multiple times to stop the Joker from shooting her, but failed each time because it's a 'fixed point' in the time stream. Fuck, what?

 

[A Curious Stranger]

I mean, Booster Gold went back in time multiple times to stop the Joker from shooting her, but failed each time because it's a 'fixed point' in the time stream. Fuck, what?

Someone doesn't watch Doctor Who.

 

[Ryuugi]

I mean, Booster Gold went back in time multiple times to stop the Joker from shooting her, but failed each time because it's a 'fixed point' in the time stream. Fuck, what?

Someone doesn't watch Doctor Who.

I do, actually. Which is why I know that he's changed fixed points in time. Twice.

But that's not the point because this isn't Doctor Who.

What I'm asking is 'Why is Barbara Gordon getting shot a fixed point in time?'

 

[cgobyd]

I mean, Booster Gold went back in time multiple times to stop the Joker from shooting her, but failed each time because it's a 'fixed point' in the time stream. Fuck, what?

Someone doesn't watch Doctor Who.

I do, actually. Which is why I know that he's changed fixed points in time. Twice.

But that's not the point because this isn't Doctor Who.

What I'm asking is 'Why is Barbara Gordon getting shot a fixed point in time?'

Because every point is a fixed point.

I mean look at how many times has booster gone back and time and done stuff that should have changed how history happened and yet there was never any change.

 

[Lord Raine]

The entire timestream appears to be comprised of nothing but fixed points, and that's a fact you should be thankful for. If it wasn't for that, Gold would have destroyed the universe from excessive paradoxes a long time ago. It's a good thing that he can't really change anything.

 

[Jryu]

Look, like or dislike the Bat family (and what they may or may not do to with the characters in the Reboot,) this whole thing isn't about them.

No, the only reason DC is scuttling all their back story and restarting everything, is because DC lost the rights to Superman.

Well, okay, not Superman so much, as Superman's back story and iconic look. They can still have a character named Superman, who can fly and shoot heat rays from his eyes... they can probably even get away with making him super-strong and bullet proof.

But Krypton? Kryptonite? The name Kal-El? The memorable blue and red suit, the "S" Shield? Yeah, DC and Warner Bros. can't use any of that (outside of certain movie deals already in place, and existing media) come the end of the year.

This is also why this change isn't going to be retconned out in a few months. They CAN'T go back. Everything about Superman has to be retconned as is - one of their pillars - and unless the Siegels opt to sell them the rights back (unlikely, after what they had to go through to secure them in the first place), DC will never be able to use that material again.

So yeah, I can understand them just deciding to start from scratch. It will be easier.

Good bye, Superman of my youth...

 

[zeebee1]

"There are a lot of Superman fans who are rooting for the Shuster's and Siegals in this Lawsuit."

I don't think they're happy anymore. Besides, the Siegals get nothing but words with this. They've lost all potential to make a profit. Not unless they can make more shows or movies which won't be considered official by the fans.

 

[Lord Raine]

How does DC lose the rights to Superman? The fuck?