Evangelion Does 3.0 Misato have any redeeming qualities? (Rebuild 3.0 spoilers)

[Thaeonblade]

I'm writing a post Rebuild 3.0 story and I want to give every character involved an even-handed depiction.

But...I can't find anything likable about Misato after Rebuild 3.0...yet, I don't want to unfairly bash her.

I understand that she was angry at Shinji for causing near Third Impact, yet she's just as responsible for making him pilot Eva in the first place and she even encouraged him while he was in ascended unit 01. Also, putting an explosive collar on the boy without even telling him what he did or whats going on was just cold...even by Gendo's standards. In fact, her actions and attitude push Shinji to nearly cause 4th Impact...

I don't know...someone throw me a bone here. I'll admit that I never really liked Misato in the original series and I don't like this Misato anymore...but I don't want to come off as a blind Misato basher.

 

[byakuryuu]

Actually, Misato's quite conflicted on the whole matter in regards to Shinji. You can expand on what she feels is a certain amount of guilt that she pushed him (Whether he heard her or not is debatable) to take that final step and save Ayanami; at that time she and Shinji probably did not have a gander of an idea that it would have initiated the evolution of Unit-01 into the instigator of Near-Third Impact. If you want to write about Misato, I'd suggest a number of angles.

Firstly, make her someone who thinks she's over her guilt on her involvement in Near-Third Impact (Again, whether or not Shinji heard her is up to you, but canon's iffy on this). You can actually get a pretty good character study on Misato if you read a few of the Vietnam War veteran's mission novels to express their regret on the "what if" scenario. I'd portray her as a broken figure hiding behind a stern exterior as she has to lead the next great hope of mankind in WILL-E. You can portray her gradual corruption into madness with Shinji's return haunting her decision-making capacity through your story, but I strongly suggest that if you do this, it'd be better to counter-balance it by making Shinji himself not quite right in the head either, since he hasn't had more than a few weeks max to stew over his actions. It provides a good dynamic once you bring in other characters.

Secondly, I'd play the angle that she, ultimately, wants to do the right thing. She could have just killed Shinji, but didn't. What this Misato probably wants is an "ideal solution", but has probably gone through so much that her head's thrown out all the clowns and replaced it with a military-instilled robotic sense to duty, her personnel and her friends. Misato would strike me more as a darker version of Macross' Bruno Gloval in the world of post-apocalyptic Earth, and if you want, you can show her gradual fall as your story goes along.

 

[l3fty]

Angry, no, if anything, she is angry at herself more then anyone else, and all her silent moments and denials to even speak with him was her punishing herself, at least as I see it. I sincerely hope Shinji doesn't start as he was in EoE movie and actually heals some emotional wounds that his women are suffering from, even his 3rd double mother (human/origin).

And now I see that you have a dislike for her even in the original TV series, which is rather odd. Both tv and movie Misato went through some horrific things, movie Misato even more with 3rd Near Impact and even worse situation afterwards, not to mention the fact she encouraged Shinji to do what he wanted, which would add to her own guilt trip even more, and resulted in her walling off people by being stone cold.

 

[MnemoD]

Eva is fucked. There's your redeeming qualities.

 

[DhampyrX2]

She still has her smokin' hot body. Does that count as a redeeming quality?

 

[MnemoD]

She still has her smokin' hot body. Does that count as a redeeming quality?

Look at that face though, she has age lines and everything now. She's even more Christmas Cake-y than we already were portraying her to be for hilarity's sake.

 

[WizardOne]

Eva 3.0 in a nutshell.

Wille brought shinji back to life, abused and ignored him, treated him like a criminal, purposefully didn't explain anything to him, and basically treated him exactly the same way his father treated him, because we all know how well that turned out.

'We can't let you pilot EVA ever again because there's a very high probability you'll cause the fourth impact, but welcome back!'

Is literally ALL IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN to turn 3.0 from a shitstorm into a planned and easily avoided scenario. Explain about Ayanami and her clones, talk to him upfront and don't treat him like a monster. Its not like he had ANY Clue what was happening outside the Eva while he was trying to rescue ayanami, he was berserk. It was a retarded blame game where idiots put an untrained fourteen year old boy in charge of a world ending device, without explaining to him how it can end the world, or even that it CAN end the world, and then GET ANGRY AT HIM WHEN HE ACCIDENTALLY PUSHES THE BUTTON. Jesus christ Wille, Hypocrite whores to the max.

But in 3.0 Shinji was a complete moron too. To the point that I can't even articulate how angry he made me.

'NO! Don't DO IT SHINJI THEY'RE THE WRONG SPEARS!'

He fucking does EVERYTHING Kaworu says, UP TO THIS POINT, then suddenly, HURR DURR I AM SELECTIVELY DEAF.


TLDR: Idiots made idiotic decisions, so idiotic in fact that despite loving the life out of 1.11 and 2.22, 3.33 actually left me pissed off at the end.

 

[byakuryuu]

But in 3.0 Shinji was a complete moron too. To the point that I can't even articulate how angry he made me.

'NO! Don't DO IT SHINJI THEY'RE THE WRONG SPEARS!'

He fucking does EVERYTHING Kaworu says, UP TO THIS POINT, then suddenly, HURR DURR I AM SELECTIVELY DEAF.


TLDR: Idiots made idiotic decisions, so idiotic in fact that despite loving the life out of 1.11 and 2.22, 3.33 actually left me pissed off at the end.

Yeah, I didn't get that part. Sure, he was obsessed with saving the world and whatever, but Kaworu said that those weren't the Cassius/Longinus combo they needed, and yet he STILL reaches out for it with Kaworu begging him not to do it.

I know he's fourteen and traumatized, but he was, as you said, following whatever Kaworu said up till then, why the sudden reversal?

 

[MnemoD]

But in 3.0 Shinji was a complete moron too. To the point that I can't even articulate how angry he made me.

'NO! Don't DO IT SHINJI THEY'RE THE WRONG SPEARS!'

He fucking does EVERYTHING Kaworu says, UP TO THIS POINT, then suddenly, HURR DURR I AM SELECTIVELY DEAF.


TLDR: Idiots made idiotic decisions, so idiotic in fact that despite loving the life out of 1.11 and 2.22, 3.33 actually left me pissed off at the end.

Yeah, I didn't get that part. Sure, he was obsessed with saving the world and whatever, but Kaworu said that those weren't the Cassius/Longinus combo they needed, and yet he STILL reaches out for it with Kaworu begging him not to do it.

I know he's fourteen and traumatized, but he was, as you said, following whatever Kaworu said up till then, why the sudden reversal?

Because at this point he's completely been brain fucked, everyone he loved/thought cared about him is now his enemy/about to be blown the fuck up/isn't the "Right Rei", and his only real option at this point is do whatever the fuck he wants, because Asuka and Mari are out to kill him (ANd if not them, Misato or other members of WILLE), and if not them, Gendo.

AKA: The usual Evangelion stuff. "Why this teenage kid so dumb?" "Because one cannot brain properly when under stress, let alone when one is 14, sitting on the destruction of the world, being bashed by everyone he thought he could open up to."

 

[xedalpha]

I agree Misato seems torn. She can't bring herself to kill Shinji, if she had even tried it, she would simply have stopped being Misato.
I agree about WILLE being hypocritical dicks when you consider they are former NERV mostly and helped carve the path Shinji walked down so he was in that mindstate of being so desperate to save Rei that 3i occurred. Adults are responsible for the actions of the children in their care. Face it: all of NERV fucked up. Look at anyone, even a bit player like Aoba, who chose to follow Gendo's order to activate the dummy system. If Shinji had more time, who knows he might have fought off the angel and released that entry plug,and now he's all scowling at Shinji as if to say 'this was all your fault!'. There's Ritsuko who knew things about the EVA she shouldn't but didn't tell the one piloting it. Just to name a few, and then they wake him up all these years later (and are so incompetent that they couldn't actually capture Shinji without him HELPING THEM to do it!) they essentially threw him into Gendo's arms where he was lied to and left so desperate to do something, ANYTHING, that he pulled the spears out because even if Kaworu told him that they might've been iffy, they were literally his only option left.
Shinji fucked up, but only because the choices of the adults around him have only ever left him the 'screw everything up' option on the table. Misato's only saving grace is when she can't kill Shinji and she actually does seem human again and you get a window into her mindset at how she obviously still remembers her affection for him to some degree. And then WILLE creates a symbol of their crimes and failures in the way of the DSS choker, which they, in one last act of shamelessness, put on the child's neck who they used to create that dead world through their choices, inability and failure, daring to call it a symbol of HIS guilt. They imposed their responsibilities on him before Third Impact, and now their guilt of it afterward.
So, yeah, dicks.
I for one will give out a cheer when Shinji inevitably says in the next move "Well they can all just DIE" and Come Sweet Death begins to play...and then it'll be comeuppance time.

 

[DhampyrX2]

Personally, I'm waiting for a 4.0 where Shinji and the rest of the world will be just as fucked up, but the Rei 2 and Asuka from the original Evangelion somehow get pulled into the world from the sea of Tang and start cleaning house to rescue him and the franchise.


Hey a guy can dream.

 

[xedalpha]

Yeah, the Asuka who could fight 9 EVAs on emergency power and the entire JSSDF despite having been mindraped, the one who fought an Angel in a volcano and under the ocean despite having the wrong equipment. Gotta say, despite being the more unstable of the two, the Soryu model is far superior to the Shikinami one. You really think after 14 years, THAT Asuka, with two fully working EVAs, would still let the war be going on? In Rebuild she beat merely one angel single handedly and needed Shinji to help CAPTURE SHINJI. As I recall, in the rest of the 3.33 movie, all she did was run out of power and get literally bitchslapped aside by Unit-13 only to moan about how Shinji would raise his hand to a girl. And then she blew up Unit-02. So, yeah, I would love original Asuka to just step in and start taking names, but I'm just a humble crossover writer, not the genius that is Anno...

 

[WizardOne]

Because at this point he's completely been brain fucked, everyone he loved/thought cared about him is now his enemy/about to be blown the fuck up/isn't the "Right Rei", and his only real option at this point is do whatever the fuck he wants, because Asuka and Mari are out to kill him (ANd if not them, Misato or other members of WILLE), and if not them, Gendo.

This totally isn't an excuse.

He was clearly rational. He wasn't having a panic attack, he was capable of hearing his friend, who clearly knows shit.

He ignored MULTIPLE calls to cease, a flat out 'THIS IS WRONG'. Hell, Kaworu even SAID what was wrong.

And this is RIGHT after he got a lecture on how he pretty much destroyed Japan in an Eva.

This is plot induced stupidity at its worst. Its completely uncharacteristic. He did whatever Kaworu said up to this point, believed his story about the two different spears allowing Shinji to save the world, and then when Kaworu says 'These are the wrong spears Shinji, don't pull them out, its dangerous.'

He suddenly decides to completely ignore him and stop taking advice. He wasn't even in immediate danger of dying at the time, and it took him a while to pull them out, so he had time to think through his decision.

3.33 Shinji deserved what happened to him, its entirely his fault. Yes, you can argue that its a product of his backstory, but he wasn't coerced. He did it entirely of his own free will, in fact, AGAINST advice.

In 2.22 what he did was entirely accidental, he didn't mean to kill people, he was trying to save them, in fact, I think he was really cool, it just sucks that he didn't know his girlfriend was in fact an angel on the opposite side of the spectrum, so saving her resulted in an impact.

In 3.33 IT WAS ON HIM. He decided to remake the world, he ignored the literal angel on his shoulder who flat out told him 'DON'T FUCKING DO THIS, THAT'S THE WRONG ARMAGEDDON BUTTON'

In 2.22, Shinji was basically sat down in front of a big shiny red button which ends the world, and he
wasn't told what it does, and he wasn't told to not press it. Armageddon was pretty much inevitable at that point.

In 3.33, he was sat down in front of a big shiny red button, again, and told it would save the world, then
about 2-5 minutes prior to pressing it, his shoulder angel says 'Oh shit dude, don't press that, I got the instructions wrong,
it could be really dangerous.'

Then he fucking pressed the fucking button. Sure, he was neglected as a child, and his friends have decided they hate him
but I don't think you respond to this with
'Oh well, he ignored advice and pressed the Armageddon button, but its totally okay, its not his fault, he was neglected as a child.'

You scream 'FUUUUUUCKKKKK YOUUUUUUU SHIIIIIIIIIIIINJIIIIIIIIIIIIIII' and then die as the world explodes. Again.

 

[shiki]

She still has her smokin' hot body. Does that count as a redeeming quality?

Look at that face though, she has age lines and everything now. She's even more Christmas Cake-y than we already were portraying her to be for hilarity's sake.

Well, Misato was well into her 40s in 3.0. She held up rather well even though she had many reason to have stress lines.

As for the other stuff about Shinji, I just put it down to him being an idiot. He spent a whole bunch of time in isolation being told that getting the spears was the only thing to do. So, like an idiot with only a fraction of the truth, he pulled a teen bitch fit when things went down the drain. It doesn't absolve him of any guilt or excuse his actions but it does make sense because he is an idiot.

All of it could have been prevented if Asuka just boned him and kept him distracted with earthly pleasures while slowly acclimating him with the truth instead of locking him up and keeping him uninformed. We all know what happens when Shinji doesn't know what is going on and has to trust his own instincts... it always leads to the end of the world.

 

[MnemoD]

She still has her smokin' hot body. Does that count as a redeeming quality?

Look at that face though, she has age lines and everything now. She's even more Christmas Cake-y than we already were portraying her to be for hilarity's sake.

Well, Misato was well into her 40s in 3.0. She held up rather well even though she had many reason to have stress lines.

As for the other stuff about Shinji, I just put it down to him being an idiot. He spent a whole bunch of time in isolation being told that getting the spears was the only thing to do. So, like an idiot with only a fraction of the truth, he pulled a teen bitch fit when things went down the drain. It doesn't absolve him of any guilt or excuse his actions but it does make sense because he is an idiot.

All of it could have been prevented if Asuka just boned him and kept him distracted with earthly pleasures while slowly acclimating him with the truth instead of locking him up and keeping him uninformed. We all know what happens when Shinji doesn't know what is going on and has to trust his own instincts... it always leads to the end of the world.

That's about the main reason I would argue Shinji isn't stupid. Shinji has... poor instincts. I mean, you have to abide by the fact he clearly has no fucking survival instinct at all, case in point EoE hiding under a damn staircase just waiting to be found.

 

[WizardOne]

She still has her smokin' hot body. Does that count as a redeeming quality?

Look at that face though, she has age lines and everything now. She's even more Christmas Cake-y than we already were portraying her to be for hilarity's sake.

Well, Misato was well into her 40s in 3.0. She held up rather well even though she had many reason to have stress lines.

As for the other stuff about Shinji, I just put it down to him being an idiot. He spent a whole bunch of time in isolation being told that getting the spears was the only thing to do. So, like an idiot with only a fraction of the truth, he pulled a teen bitch fit when things went down the drain. It doesn't absolve him of any guilt or excuse his actions but it does make sense because he is an idiot.

All of it could have been prevented if Asuka just boned him and kept him distracted with earthly pleasures while slowly acclimating him with the truth instead of locking him up and keeping him uninformed. We all know what happens when Shinji doesn't know what is going on and has to trust his own instincts... it always leads to the end of the world.

That's about the main reason I would argue Shinji isn't stupid. Shinji has... poor instincts. I mean, you have to abide by the fact he clearly has no fucking survival instinct at all, case in point EoE hiding under a damn staircase just waiting to be found.

First time I've ever heard someone use 'poor survival instincts' as an excuse for very, VERY nearly ending the world twice.

I mean, its true, but holy shit, that's the least of his problems. The primary one being that he's being forced into plot induced stupidity by the writers.

He was amazing in 2.22. He overcame his fear, his hatred, and came back to save lives, he was determined to help. He really grew as a character.

In 3.33, he not only regressed, he got SO MUCH WORSE, and then his brain dropped out. It was probably trampled by Fuyutsuki after that godawful shogi game.

 

[MnemoD]

She still has her smokin' hot body. Does that count as a redeeming quality?

Look at that face though, she has age lines and everything now. She's even more Christmas Cake-y than we already were portraying her to be for hilarity's sake.

Well, Misato was well into her 40s in 3.0. She held up rather well even though she had many reason to have stress lines.

As for the other stuff about Shinji, I just put it down to him being an idiot. He spent a whole bunch of time in isolation being told that getting the spears was the only thing to do. So, like an idiot with only a fraction of the truth, he pulled a teen bitch fit when things went down the drain. It doesn't absolve him of any guilt or excuse his actions but it does make sense because he is an idiot.

All of it could have been prevented if Asuka just boned him and kept him distracted with earthly pleasures while slowly acclimating him with the truth instead of locking him up and keeping him uninformed. We all know what happens when Shinji doesn't know what is going on and has to trust his own instincts... it always leads to the end of the world.

That's about the main reason I would argue Shinji isn't stupid. Shinji has... poor instincts. I mean, you have to abide by the fact he clearly has no fucking survival instinct at all, case in point EoE hiding under a damn staircase just waiting to be found.

First time I've ever heard someone use 'poor survival instincts' as an excuse for very, VERY nearly ending the world twice.

I mean, its true, but holy shit, that's the least of his problems. The primary one being that he's being forced into plot induced stupidity by the writers.

He was amazing in 2.22. He overcame his fear, his hatred, and came back to save lives, he was determined to help. He really grew as a character.

In 3.33, he not only regressed, he got SO MUCH WORSE, and then his brain dropped out. It was probably trampled by Fuyutsuki after that godawful shogi game.

Well, yeah, but blaming the character for the writer...

 

[xedalpha]

Either way, I can't help but wonder how the dub will translate Misato's most notorious line in 3.0 when Shinji asks her what he's supposed to do ("Shinji Ikari: From now on, do nothing..." or will it be more along the lines of the even more morbid interpretation, depending on the sub you read, which comes out: "Shinji Ikari...you'll never do anything again") and more interestingly how Alison Keith will work Misato when it comes out.

 

[MnemoD]

Either way, I can't help but wonder how the dub will translate Misato's most notorious line in 3.0 when Shinji asks her what he's supposed to do ("Shinji Ikari: From now on, do nothing..." or will it be more along the lines of the even more morbid interpretation, depending on the sub you read, which comes out: "Shinji Ikari...you'll never do anything again") and more interestingly how Alison Keith will work Misato when it comes out.

I would put money on the second, and she will do it as she always has. And we will all -hate- Misato in that moment, and we will -hate- that we are forced into hating Misato for it. And Allison Keith will probably be like "That was harsh." at some con.

 

[shiki]

Huh, looking at all that just reminds me that I have never ever seen the dub version of Eva. When I first saw it in the late 90s, a year or so after the original broadcast, it was the Japanese version showing on a subsidiary of PBS.

 

[MnemoD]

I caught EoE on Adult Swim, and looked it up on the net from there.

 

[WizardOne]

Look at that face though, she has age lines and everything now. She's even more Christmas Cake-y than we already were portraying her to be for hilarity's sake.

Well, Misato was well into her 40s in 3.0. She held up rather well even though she had many reason to have stress lines.

As for the other stuff about Shinji, I just put it down to him being an idiot. He spent a whole bunch of time in isolation being told that getting the spears was the only thing to do. So, like an idiot with only a fraction of the truth, he pulled a teen bitch fit when things went down the drain. It doesn't absolve him of any guilt or excuse his actions but it does make sense because he is an idiot.

All of it could have been prevented if Asuka just boned him and kept him distracted with earthly pleasures while slowly acclimating him with the truth instead of locking him up and keeping him uninformed. We all know what happens when Shinji doesn't know what is going on and has to trust his own instincts... it always leads to the end of the world.

That's about the main reason I would argue Shinji isn't stupid. Shinji has... poor instincts. I mean, you have to abide by the fact he clearly has no fucking survival instinct at all, case in point EoE hiding under a damn staircase just waiting to be found.

First time I've ever heard someone use 'poor survival instincts' as an excuse for very, VERY nearly ending the world twice.

I mean, its true, but holy shit, that's the least of his problems. The primary one being that he's being forced into plot induced stupidity by the writers.

He was amazing in 2.22. He overcame his fear, his hatred, and came back to save lives, he was determined to help. He really grew as a character.

In 3.33, he not only regressed, he got SO MUCH WORSE, and then his brain dropped out. It was probably trampled by Fuyutsuki after that godawful shogi game.

Well, yeah, but blaming the character for the writer...

Yes. There's two levels of this. The 'Fanon' level, where you blame the character for not making intelligent decisions, as if they were a real person and not a representation of a script, and the realistic level, where you blame the writer for writing the character in such a way that he made stupid decisions.

You can blame the character for being stupid, AND the writer for writing them stupidly.

 

[MnemoD]

Well, Misato was well into her 40s in 3.0. She held up rather well even though she had many reason to have stress lines.

As for the other stuff about Shinji, I just put it down to him being an idiot. He spent a whole bunch of time in isolation being told that getting the spears was the only thing to do. So, like an idiot with only a fraction of the truth, he pulled a teen bitch fit when things went down the drain. It doesn't absolve him of any guilt or excuse his actions but it does make sense because he is an idiot.

All of it could have been prevented if Asuka just boned him and kept him distracted with earthly pleasures while slowly acclimating him with the truth instead of locking him up and keeping him uninformed. We all know what happens when Shinji doesn't know what is going on and has to trust his own instincts... it always leads to the end of the world.

That's about the main reason I would argue Shinji isn't stupid. Shinji has... poor instincts. I mean, you have to abide by the fact he clearly has no fucking survival instinct at all, case in point EoE hiding under a damn staircase just waiting to be found.

First time I've ever heard someone use 'poor survival instincts' as an excuse for very, VERY nearly ending the world twice.

I mean, its true, but holy shit, that's the least of his problems. The primary one being that he's being forced into plot induced stupidity by the writers.

He was amazing in 2.22. He overcame his fear, his hatred, and came back to save lives, he was determined to help. He really grew as a character.

In 3.33, he not only regressed, he got SO MUCH WORSE, and then his brain dropped out. It was probably trampled by Fuyutsuki after that godawful shogi game.

Well, yeah, but blaming the character for the writer...

Yes. There's two levels of this. The 'Fanon' level, where you blame the character for not making intelligent decisions, as if they were a real person and not a representation of a script, and the realistic level, where you blame the writer for writing the character in such a way that he made stupid decisions.

You can blame the character for being stupid, AND the writer for writing them stupidly.

I guess I'm just too realistic, then. Feel it's unfair to call Shinji stupid for sticking with the plan when he had no other options. Especially since the only -real- reason he did so was because "We got nothing."

 

[shiki]

Honestly, that scene works well on multiple levels. Although it was stupid, it really showed the desperation and longing that Shinji had. He just wanted to go back to the happy times in 2.0 with a Rei that liked him, a supportive Asuka, and an amused fun-loving Misato. This whole movie was built the latter half of the TV series and the direction that his character went was true to the source material despite being a remake of the series. It hit on many of the important themes of isolation, abandonment, and attachment with the really stupid looking and homo-erotic piano playing scenes. Those scenes built up to the crap fest at the end.

You have to remember that he was thrust straight from trying, and failing, to save Rei into a world that was completely different with people that acted completely different and treated him as if he was a worm despite him being a lynchpin. You can blame a lot on the writers but that scene where he goes for the spears in completely believable and in character for someone pushed past their comfort levels. He latched on to the plan because that was all he knew. He literally had no other pertinent information.

If anything, you could and should blame them for the stuff that happened in the first half of the movie more than the second half. Misato's team should have known that going to stoic route would have burned them just based on their past interactions with Shinji and pulled a honey trap if their intention was to keep him away from Gendo/remove him from the equation. It was like they gave her an idiot ball just so they could force Shinji to run away without looking like a total douche. Sadly, it makes him look like a gigantic dumbass of epic proportions.

To address an earlier comment, I equate poor instincts with stupidity.

 

[xedalpha]

I do for some reason get the feeling Misato was at least in part being forced to play up to the rest of the crew, that combined with her own internal conflict didn't help, but yeah I agree that she really should've known better. I get the feeling in 4.0 we'll have it flipped on it's head with her being forced to ask him to pilot Unit-01 or 13, probably with either her sacrificing herself or there being some kind of admission or reconciliation on her part.
One way or another, I think we're getting one last impact before this series is out. Though that would kind of break Anno's promise about a completely new ending, so a curveball might end up being shown. Either way, I'm hopeful they heal the rift between them as I do feel this Misato isn't nearly beyond saving as a character. It's more like we simply haven't seen enough of her motivations and what lies beyond that mask, the only glimpse we got of that was when she refused to kill Shinji and when she seems to be thinking about him during the battle (having well gone back to just calling him Shinji-kun again)