Dresden Files

shiki

Well-Known Member
I'm also all for Harry/Sarissa. I had a funny feeling that the husband/wife domestic bliss relationship they had in between OMFGMurderTimez will be important down the road.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
The lifespan thing may not be an issue for Murphy. Didn't Odin express an interest an interest/possibility of her becoming a Valkyrie at some point? Also, Gard is out on loan to Marcone, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was willing to work something out with Dresden, for a price, of course.

Elaine/Harry is also viable due to both having similar power levels. Elaine held back because she doesn't want to be on the White Council.

Harry/Sarissa could be an interesting couple, the Summer Lady and the Winter Knight makes for interesting storytelling, but I think there would need to be a lot more development over time before it could become viable.

I don't think the Pairing must necessarily end in tragedy. Could just be the optimist in me, but after all the shit Harry has to deal with, I want to see him have a happy ending.

As for the series being only 5 more plus the trilogy, I think it was stated that it would have twenty books at a minimum.


Rest of post in spoilers due to the book being so new.


First off: Glad to see Murphy and Harry finally getting together and moving past all of the BS they've been dancing around. Not sure if it will have a happy ending or not, but glad to see it move past the "never the right time" phase.


Second: DAMN, Mab is a stone cold bitch. Arranging things in such a manner just to get revenge on Nicodemus for violating her treaty...damn. Glad to finally see her being proactive and getting revenge instead of just cleaning house and maintaining the balance between Summer and Winter

It wouldn't surprise me if allowing Marcone to build the supernatural bank was killing to birds with one stone. Compensating him for her laws being violated, and possibly getting him into her debt.


Third: Sad to see Lash is dead, but glad to see she isn't gone. I'm curious to see how Harry deals with her as well as Maggie. Part of me hopes that he builds her a body of some sort so she can go out and be a real girl. Should be interesting to see the contrast between Maggie/Lashling as daughters, and Bob/Lashling as spirits.


Fourth: Molly. She didn't show up very much, but she did demonstrate that she was keeping secret from her family, and her life as Molly separate from life as the Winter Lady. Something tells me that this will either come out in the worst time and damage her relationship with them, or the dissonance between the two Mollys will cause some sort of break, or make it easier for the Lady's Mantle (or whatever you would call it) to assert itself over her, changing her more into Maeve with Molly's face than Molly with Maeve's powers.


Probably think of a few more points, especially after I reread it.
 

shiki

Well-Known Member
I don't think the Valkryie thing is as much of a solution as you think. As we have learned, positions and mantles of power have their own rules and regulations that the holder MUST fulfill. If she becomes one, which is something I would doubt she would since she is a catholic, she would be bound to the role. Not to mention the price it would take... whew. Love is powerful force, I doubt that Dresden can ever come up with something to match the price that would be required.

As for it not ending in tragedy? Come on, we all know Murphy is doomed and will die soon after they do the funky monkey and that the woman that forms the OTP at the end will be extremely tragic before, during, and after the romance runs its course.
 

lord geryon

Well-Known Member
My first thought after reading Skin Game was that Murph had tripped the death flag. :/
 

Alzrius

Well-Known Member
shiki said:
I don't think the Valkryie thing is as much of a solution as you think. As we have learned, positions and mantles of power have their own rules and regulations that the holder MUST fulfill. If she becomes one, which is something I would doubt she would since she is a catholic, she would be bound to the role.
The question isn't if there's a way for Karrin to extend her life (plausible ways of doing so aren't that hard to imagine), but rather if she'd do so, particularly if it meant being beholden to any sort of supernatural power (or even set of rules).

In that regard...I really don't think she would. She didn't even want to enter into God's service as a Knight of the Cross, so anything besides that seems even more unlikely.
 

FlinFlon

Well-Known Member
Alzrius said:
shiki said:
I don't think the Valkryie thing is as much of a solution as you think. As we have learned, positions and mantles of power have their own rules and regulations that the holder MUST fulfill. If she becomes one, which is something I would doubt she would since she is a catholic, she would be bound to the role.
The question isn't if there's a way for Karrin to extend her life (plausible ways of doing so aren't that hard to imagine), but rather if she'd do so, particularly if it meant being beholden to any sort of supernatural power (or even set of rules).

In that regard...I really don't think she would. She didn't even want to enter into God's service as a Knight of the Cross, so anything besides that seems even more unlikely.
Of course this all assumes that Dresden is going to live long enough for it to be an issue. :lol:
 
Of course he will. That will be the universe's cruel irony. For all the things he does that, statistically, should kill him several times over, he manages to survive it all, outliving everyone he loves, until finally, when there's no one left, he'll "Die alone."
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
I wonder if he'll get Murphy pregnant. It seems like having kids is starting to be a pattern for people he gets involved with.

Hm... do you think Mab keeping Molly away from Harry had a double purpose? Sure, it kept Harry on a short leash for the mission, but it also meant that Molly was pretty much operating on her own, probably far from home, with no one to talk with besides the Winter Faeries. Given how the mantle influences Harry, and the Winter Lady probably exerts equal if not more influence (she's full on Faerie, after all.) Mab could have wanted to make sure the Winter Lady had time to become the Winter Lady, without pesky influences like "family" and "morality" to distract her. It took less than a decade for Lily to effectively become Aurora, and she was a normal girl off the streets. Lea had months to prime the pump with Molly, and Mab doesn't strike me as teh type to sit around and let nature take its course.

I'm waiting for the moment when she locks eyes with a wizard and doesn't trigger a soul gaze. Equally, if not more horrifying than her using a cell phone.
 

AJ_Katon

Well-Known Member
So I'm all caught up on Dresden Files and I gotta ask: Who do you guys think he's gonna get a kid with next?

I mean the Constantine similarities are there and he even has his own Swamp Thing. And considering John had 3 kids during his Vertigo run, Harry's 2 for 3. My money is on Mab.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
holy shit I didn't even realise there was a Dresden Files topic

AJ_Katon said:
So I'm all caught up on Dresden Files and I gotta ask: Who do you guys think he's gonna get a kid with next?

I mean the Constantine similarities are there and he even has his own Swamp Thing. And considering John had 3 kids during his Vertigo run, Harry's 2 for 3. My money is on Mab.
Well, if we go off the whole trend of 'one year passes per book'...Ivy should be pushing 17 or 18 right now, right? We've seen Molly grow up from an early teenager into the WL, so I half-expect her to be a red herring and Butcher to throw Harry into a pairing with the other girl we've seen grow up. Pre-Cold Days Molly might have made a possibility, but I exclude her and Mab on the grounds of them being full-blown Fae and Harry, no matter if he was in love with either of them, wouldn't want any possible child to become a political power tool. Besides, the Archive needs a fail-safe again if she dies.

Of course, Harry would have to get past Kincaid, though I wonder if he'll ask Kincaid for that favour back :O
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
It seems more like somewhere between six month and a year for most books.  Ghost story was around five or six (May until end of October, I think.)  Then about a year for Skin Game.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
well I'm still in that tiny minority rooting for Harry x Ivy

Murphy must be in her mid-to-late 40s by now I think
 

silentorphan

Well-Known Member
Past midnight here on the US East Coast, and my e-mail inbox is getting hammered with auto-notifications about the release of Book 16.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Huh. I missed the release date for Peace Talks. I knew he had finished writing it early this year, but the actual release seemed to skip by me XD

Will put it on hold at the library.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Finally read through Peace Talks.

Well, huh. My post a few posts up about Harry x Ivy is 4.5 years old now, but I find it hilarious that Ivy very briefly appears and Harry has to do a double-take and calculate how old she has to be before deciding that yes, she is that grown-up now.

Anyways, I guess Peace Talks was a weird thing where they decided to split it up into two books due to length. Fortunately, Battle Ground comes out this month, so I hopefully won't have to wait long to get a copy of it. But it would probably have been better to read them back to back.

Ethniu seems to be an extremely high-tier entity, since she was able to essentially finger-flick Mab. Also, there's a few tidbit Ethniu drops about Mab's relation to Merlin that seems to confirm Mab is Nimue. I have no idea how Harry is supposed to kill her, as implied by the synopsis for Battle Ground. I guess he'll end up having to break out some mordite? Either that or somehow trap her in Demonreach's prison.

Harry definitely is a lot more calculating and conniving than he was even a few books back. The level of opposition against him has also climbed. I guess committing magical genocide will do that for your reputation, as well as throwing in with Winter.

Harry also has something called conjuritis, which is basically a bad cold where whenever he sneezes, he conjures up whatever image he has in his head at the moment. I am guessing there will be a (potentially funny) moment where this turns the tide of battle. I also notice that what wasn't yet revealed was who must have blackmailed Thomas into his assassination attempt.
 
Last edited:

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
I finished listening to the audiobook for Peace Talks some time back. A wonderful listen and I'm eagerly awaiting the next book. A friend of mine told me that it ended in a cliff-hanger; something which made me leery to start the book, but since we have the next one coming out soon, it isn't as much of a problem. And compared to other cliff-hangers, Peace Talks is fine.

In some ways, the way Peace Talks ended reminded me of an unfinished fanfiction (something I'm used to) instead of a cliff-hanger which ... upsets me these days.

I'm not sure what to make of Ethniu. The finger-flicking was obviously a show. Makes me wonder if she was wearing iron or not - the traditional Fey weakness. And timing it so that Winter's forces were deployed elsewhere? That reeks of a setup.

I am really, REALLY looking forward to seeing how Queen Mab responds. She's not one to take something like this lying down and Harry (as her Knight) isn't a push-over either.

Speaking of Harry - I think it was in this book that it was mentioned that he's a high-profile person-of-interest. That, in retrospective isn't too surprising, but it caught me off guard. A lot of the time, we see Harry as being a very, *very* cautious and calculating wizard - someone who does not seek attention. And yet, when he realizes that he's High-Profile - that's wow. Really shows how much he's accomplished over the past few years.

A puzzle is the entire Thomas situation - what was the point of it? What purpose did it serve? I would not be surprised if Mab was behind that, as a way to get out of debts from Lara Raith; admittedly, it's a weak argument - that feels too convoluted.

My inner fanboy wants to see Grandpa and Grandkid reunited and having a Family Talk about how to proceed.

Good times ahead for Battle Grounds, I feel. Good times!

-chronodekar
 

silentorphan

Well-Known Member
Past midnight here on the US East Coast, and my e-mail inbox is getting hammered with auto-notifications about the release of Book 17.

Deja vu?
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
Finished the audiobook for Book 17 yesterday. It was a good listen.

In a nutshell? A lot of fighting. More so that some of his other books, I think. The resolution at the end was good (and amusing to read).

Retrospectively, the battle *felt* too intense. There were a lot of forces brought to bear - the Fairy Queens, Odin, Gouls, the White Council ... etc. Heck, even the Kinghts of the Cross entered the battlefield. It feels unfair that all that power only "equalled" the opposition. It *should* have been a beat-down. A smack-down of epic porportions. Instead? It was a good war story. Lots of fighting with a lot of wounded on every side.

In the earlier books, the Faulmer were mentioned as a faction which rose up to fill a void left behind by the Red Court. It feels really odd that they fought as well as they did.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed book 17. It just feels unfair to me, given the build-up from the earlier books.

The ending resolution was fun! I'm looking forward to Book-18 now. :D

-chronodekar
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
So while I haven't got to read Battle Ground yet, I was able to recently read Brief Cases, the third short story novel compilation.

A Fistful of Warlocks has Luccio team up with Wyatt Earp in ye olde Tombstone to fight off some warlocks, and I think is the only in-the-flesh appearance of Kemmler. Short but sweet with the action.

Then there's a trio of Bigfoot stories where Harry gets involved in Bigfoot's son's life to help him out a bit. Neat. The last one is really funny imo.

Curses deals with the Billy Goat Gruff curse. I'm sure Chicago Cubs fans were in despair (a genius bonus is that Billy Goat Gruff got killed off in Peace Talks, which explains why the Cubs won in real life!)

There's a few more Harry shorts, with AAAA Wizardry being where he gives a lecture to younger Wardens-in-training, and Jury Duty, where he does some detective work sniffing around when he gets called to a case that has an obvious supernatural background.

Even Hand is a tale from the perspective of Johnny Marcone. It does show his ruthlessness and pragmatism well.

Then there's a few Molly stories that I didn't finish because she was so boring.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
I finished Battle Ground. Lots to talk about, and I won't even get close to it all.


This definitely needed to be cut into two. Peace Talks was more of a slow build with a few heist sequences. Battle Ground is a war novel. It's amazing to finally see all these factions collide like this. Ethniu herself was I think a little underwhelming, but definitely did her role in upsetting the status quo. However, if anything, I think too few named good guys died or suffered terrible fates in this book.

What's really amazing is how much more Harry and Mab's relationship is fleshed out here. I commented on it previously when I was reading through Peace Talks, but Harry has been insanely effective for Mab as her Winter Knight. He tied up the whole affair with Maeve, he helped her screw over Nicodemus, and he's apparently been getting Winter Court owed favours steadily repaid. Now he's in a sense defended Mab's honour and position as the one who pushed through the Unseelie Accords. His and her interactions throughout BG really set the stage for what's becoming more and more a partnership instead of subordinate and queen, even if Mab gets the better of him at points like with the marriage. I adore her meta-commentary near the end of the book.

Also, Harry gets to basically grab Mab roughly twice. Once early on to protect her from I think one of the assassins, and again later to protect her from rebar spears. Definitely not something he could get away with out of scenarios like this! Mab still gets to look great herself, too. She was the only one really able to go up against Ethniu alone to start, even if she could only hold out for one attack.

One more note...I borrowed this from the library and dropped it back off, and I don't have a copy of Cold Days either to compare with. But I think I remember in Cold Days that when Harry briefly went after his mantle, he keeled over because his bargain with Mab to join Winter was the only thing that kept his back healed. I'm pretty sure at least once in BG he gets his mantle cut off at least once from the presence of iron, but he doesn't keel over. Wizard healing is a lot better than normal human healing, albeit still as slow, so it's entirely conceivable that Harry's back has finally healed.

So the Fomor are basically done as a fighting force. King Corb at one point mentioned a fifth of his forces were killed, and that was before the final fight, then their retreat, then the helicopters gunning down more of the Fomor as they escape into the water. If they have any form of a written language, Ivy alone will now likely oppose them actively since they specifically attacked the mortal world. Now the Red Court has been completely annihilated, and the Fomor have been drastically reduced in number. The White Court has been mostly neutralised as a personal threat to Harry in previous books, and with his impending marriage to Lara even more so. Marcone might still hate his guts, but since Chicago as a whole is likely to band together in a weird quasi-alliance against basically the rest of the supernatural world that isn't part of the Unseelie Accords, he wouldn't get any advantage currently in having Harry killed. The Denarians aren't broken, but they've certainly been weakened - Deidre is dead, at least one coin that I recall (maybe two) are in Hades' vault, Nicodemus' squires abandoned him, and Tessa's faction will have been even more turned against him.

It makes me wonder who the next batch of enemies to take front stage will be. The Black Court has been hinted in previous books to have been mostly wiped out centuries ago with only its really wily, devious, powerful heavy-hitters remaining. I take that to mean they've also had centuries to regroup and very slowly build a power base again. The Jade Court of Vampires has only been mentioned like once before, so they may be a non-factor. I think it's more likely the Black Council of wizards and the necromancers will start to pop up again in more serious numbers, now that Nemesis has been revealed to Harry and has lost one of its major vassals.

Speaking of Nemesis, so it was forced to reveal its name as He Who Walks Beside, one of the three Walkers. He Who Walks Behind was the one that was summoned by Justin DuMorne to kill Harry, who Harry barely managed to banish, while He Who Walks Before was a major antagonist in Cold Days ('Sharkface'). But Nemesis has been a lot more subtle in its approach through the series, manipulating events from afar and possessing Justine. I have to wonder if there is a distinct seperation being made between the three Walkers: something like Behind is a loner more interested in a good fight, Before is more a psychotic who likes violence and gore and death, and Beside is a subtly manipulative megalomaniac working towards the stated Outsider goal of total omnicide.

Chicago will likely band together to fight off outside supernatural forces from now, as I mentioned earlier. Funny enough, this should ingratiate Harry with the Chicago Police finally, as they've had an in-your-face supernatural invasion occur on their watch. The likes of the Winter Court can probably integrate into Chicago, as long as they're aware there's no preying on Chicago at the same time anymore. As mentioned above, while Marcone is probably pissed off at Harry for his actions at the end of the book, Harry is too useful to him now. If Johnny Marcone is the Baron of Chicago, and he intends to protect Chicago from the supernatural again, having the Wizard of Chicago is also a major deterrent.

Also, fuck Rudolph. I'm not too impressed with how Murphy got killed off.

With her dead, I also wonder if/when Harry will get another lover. I don't count Kim Delaney, so that leaves me at sort-of 5 lovers Harry has had so far - Elaine, Susan, Lash, Luccio, and Murphy. Three of them died in some way sacrificing themselves for Harry, which has really gotta add up for him. The ship has sailed for him and Molly. He might swing back to Elaine, or maybe this thing with Lara will actually move past platonic (extremely, extremely, extremely, EXTREMELY doubtful). Perhaps he'll give up on love for a while. There might be some new female character showing up. I think Ivy is also now 18 or 19, though that may be a little squick for some given Harry knew her since she was 7 and the larger age difference...
 

chronodekar

Obsessively signs his posts
Staff member
Now that you mention it,

The moments between the Winter Knight and Queen have been GOOD highlights for me in the book. I was smiling/grinning to myself when Harry stepped in to defend Mab. Those were awesome moments! Is anything romantic going on between them? ... As a reader, I'm undecided. But if either of them felt that way, I would not expect it to be hard to communicate as such to the other. And if it was reciprocated? We're talking about affairs between Queens of Fairy and their Knights - who is going to challenge either? Besides, the couple in question are more than experienced with keeping things out-of-sight, if they cared to do so.

I am very intrigued with what will happen between Harry and Lara. Comedic fun aside, how would a marriage even work? Canonically, any promises made in Winter's name have been kept - without exception. Sure, the Winter Knight can lie, but I have this feeling that when a big show of exchanging vows is made the promise would be as good as if Mab herself gave it. Heck, he's doing it *for* Queen Mab. To even suggest that he not fulfill the marriage vows would bring dis-honor to Winter.

Harry is many things, but blatantly bringing dishonor to Winter? No, I don't see him doing it.

Which is what puzzles me - after the marriage, where would his loyalties lie? To Winter? Or to the White Court of Vampires?

Even keeping that aside, there is another question that puzzles me - would the wedding vow involve love? Traditionally, I would expect it to - at least, a wedding where neither party exchanges vows of love to the other is no wedding to me. But that brings up the point - Love is harmful to the White Court. It was how Harry's mother nullified the prior vampire head (the one before Lara, I forgot his name).

If Harry were to, well, do the wedding night deed with Lara ... would she survive it? Or has the problems his brother Thomas faced, been a build-up to this moment? Will Harry need to build a harem on the side just to spend nights with Lara?

...

Reading my own comment just now ... I think I want to read that in fan-fiction, but have trouble seeing it in canon material. -sigh- Might just be better to wait for the next book than to speculate.

I disagree with you on the size of the book. At least, about the suggestion to split the book into two. Battle Grounds had a lot of stuff happening within it. I welcome more Dresden books of similar length!

-chronodekar
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
I considered Mab as a shipping option with Harry, buuut...while it's feasible, to me it seems like one of those relationships that would require so much slow burn development that the series would be just about over before it could happen. If it happened in a few books, it would require some real ham-fisted plot development. Plus Mab's actions are a lot more strictly beholden to her office than Harry's are, so there's no way it could happen without Harry's marriage with Lara being broken off first, be that to Lara dying, or relations with the White Court being dissolved.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Also, it took me way too many years to realise just how perfect of a fit Harry is for Winter Knight. After all, Harry is Starborn, which means Outsiders can't influence him. And what is the Winter Court's job? To protect the rest of reality against the Outsiders.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
It sounds like what would have been the next book, Mirror Mirror, which would have been a normal 'breather' case file, will be pushed back a book. Instead, Jim Butcher intends to write 'Twelve Months', which will provide a sort of 'picking up the pieces' look in the year following Peace Talks and Battle Ground.
 
Top