Nasuverse Fate/time loop

Avider

Well-Known Member
#26
A translation of the bridge fight, by l46kok:

http://clanufw.darkbb.com/discussion-f10/f...into-b-t111.htm

There's a summarization (not translation!) of the end result of that battle (by yours truly) on the next page. Don't expect much, it's literally just a summary. And it's only really for those who played F/h a already.

(I haven't been following the guy who's "officially" translating F/h a, so I don't know if he got to this part yet. Just a disclaimer.)
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#27
Muramasa said:
As to doing better if he fought like an archer, I doubt that. He fought like an Archer against Saber in F/HA. Saber won.
Is that so? Huh... Actually F/HA is one of my biggest blind spots as far as my knowledge of Type-Moon goes. I gotta read up on that.

Berserker would have done the same, only faster, since he could just pick up Ilya and dodge while going after Archer.
:huh: Berserker can think to dodge while being mad enhanced? *shrugs* moot point. We already know Archer can't handle Berserker by himself.


Rider has Pegasus and Bellerophon, 'nuff said.
Bellerophon requires a period of preparation before it can be pulled off. Quite difficult when your constantly being peppered with sword-arrows.

Gil is...well, himself.
....yeah.

Caster can teleport and put up barriers equal to God Hand, and, more importantly, she isn't someone you want to fight in a ranged battle.
UBW route had Archer fight Caster at range. He won.

Assassin he could probably take down, but Lancer has Protection from Arrows and A Rank Agility.
Against Archer's normal shots' sure. But what can 'Protection from Arrows' do with projectiles that explode in your face (Broken Phantasms)? . The agility part of the equation though is noted.
The scene in question was pretty cool. Also, Avider, Saber had to gaurd Shirou, who was stnding around like an idiot, while being hit my multiple attacks, despite the fact that said attacks took twenty+ seconds to charge. In a battle ground of Archer's chosing, where he knew his enemy would be.

Berserker is a surrisingly good fighter, even when ME'd.

It does? I don't remember that. I thought it just needed to be put on Pegasus.

Yeah.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, they were pretty close. Regardless, Caster isn't a very good fighter.

Keep in mind the BP's take, like ten to twenty seconds min (and up to, like, forty, that we know of). Against Lancer, who moves at, like, mach three.

Edit: Thanks for the link, Avider.
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
#28
Ryuugi said:
The scene in question was pretty cool. Also, Avider, Saber had to gaurd Shirou, who was stnding around like an idiot, while being hit my multiple attacks, despite the fact that said attacks took twenty+ seconds to charge. In a battle ground of Archer's chosing, where he knew his enemy would be.

Berserker is a surrisingly good fighter, even when ME'd.

It does? I don't remember that. I thought it just needed to be put on Pegasus.

Yeah.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, they were pretty close. Regardless, Caster isn't a very good fighter.

Keep in mind the BP's take, like ten to twenty seconds min (and up to, like, forty, that we know of). Against Lancer, who moves at, like, mach three.

Edit: Thanks for the link, Avider.
That's exactly what I mean by Archer fighting as an archer (sniper). As such, he has a huge advantage over most other Servants and their Masters.

Archer is very dangerous, precisely because he's almost like Kiritsugu. Sure, he might be weaker and slower than some of the other Servants, but he's the kind to plan and gain the advantageous ground, sneak snipes including. Well, that's not when he's being all "SWORDS AHOY!"
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#29
Read the summary...


Interesting. The only way Saber could fight Archer in that circumstance and keep Shirou alive was through the use of a command seal (effectively, she was buffed). Also something I didn't take into account was Saber's magic resistance and the fact that it even applies to traced weaponry to an extent.
 

ksho

Well-Known Member
#30
Someone on beast lair already translated the complete bridge fight scene more than 3 years ago. It's under the Walkthroughs and Translations section:

Dead Bridge:
http://nrvnqsr.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa...lay&thread=3235

While you guys are there, you should also look out for other translations of key scenes from Fate/Hollow Antaraxia like Lancer vs Bazette, Avenger vs Saber etc.



Another good source for translated Fate/Hollow Antaraxia scenes would be this blog site (The guy mostly does the slice of life scenes from F/HA):

http://gndynames.wordpress.com/

He does them sporadically though, so some shifting is required. Some of my personal favourites:

Meido Heaven:
http://gndynames.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/...round-the-maid/


Saber is just so huggable :wub: :
http://gndynames.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/...ations-plushie/


Lancer and his big mouth (The poor guy....he should know by now not to tempt the Archers :snigger: )

Part 1:
http://gndynames.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/...ncers-heaven-i/

Part 2:
http://gndynames.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/...cers-heaven-ii/

Part 3:
http://gndynames.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/...ers-heaven-iii/
 

Garlak

Well-Known Member
#31
Spiral of Fate, a FSN story by Kieran. Recently started, only has two chapters... and apparently Kieran is taking a forced break from fanfiction. (Due to, I think, health concerns?)

It starts off with a Shirou going through his 26th loop of the Fifth Holy Grail War.
 

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#32
Garlak said:
Spiral of Fate, a FSN story by Kieran. Recently started, only has two chapters... and apparently Kieran is taking a forced break from fanfiction. (Due to, I think, health concerns?)

It starts off with a Shirou going through his 26th loop of the Fifth Holy Grail War.
Damn. :huh:

This isn't the only time either; I was around when he announced that he was taking a break due to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome back in 200. . . 5, I think.

I was the first time I feared for the Author Existence Failure of a fanfic writer.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#33
á á Shirou awoke to a familiar ceiling.

á á ". . . DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!"
From the abovementioned fic, right after the poor guy was sure he'd ended the loops.

EDIT: If Shirou isn't going to get stabbed by Lancer, and thus Rin doesn't have to use the gem to heal him, wouldn't she get someone other than Archer-EMIYA?
 

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
#34
If I didn't already knew, now I am completely sure of just how complicated F/SN is.

I need to get that game, if only to appease that burning curiosity of mine... :ph43r:
 

darthturtle

Well-Known Member
#35
Prince Charon said:
á á Shirou awoke to a familiar ceiling.

á á ". . . DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!"
From the abovementioned fic, right after the poor guy was sure he'd ended the loops.

EDIT: If Shirou isn't going to get stabbed by Lancer, and thus Rin doesn't have to use the gem to heal him, wouldn't she get someone other than Archer-EMIYA?
Well, Archer-EMIYA was still presumably stabbed and healed. His summoning is before the healing in any particular timeline, so changing the Later won't affect the Now.

Otherwise, Archer's entire plan of killing himself becomes a silly paradox(He can't kill himself if he's not a counter guardian).
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#36
darthturtle said:
Prince Charon said:
á á Shirou awoke to a familiar ceiling.

á á ". . . DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!"
From the abovementioned fic, right after the poor guy was sure he'd ended the loops.

EDIT: If Shirou isn't going to get stabbed by Lancer, and thus Rin doesn't have to use the gem to heal him, wouldn't she get someone other than Archer-EMIYA?
Well, Archer-EMIYA was still presumably stabbed and healed. His summoning is before the healing in any particular timeline, so changing the Later won't affect the Now.

Otherwise, Archer's entire plan of killing himself becomes a silly paradox(He can't kill himself if he's not a counter guardian).
His plan, IIRC, was to kill himself in order to prevent himself from becoming a Counter Guardian. So, he wanted to change history. If he still shows up, even though Rin doesn't use the gem to heal Shirou, that means that his plan won't work.
 

Liam-don

Well-Known Member
#37
Prince Charon said:
His plan, IIRC, was to kill himself in order to prevent himself from becoming a Counter Guardian.á So, he wanted to change history.á If he still shows up, even though Rin doesn't use the gem to heal Shirou, that means that his plan won't work.
Considering that he wasn't erased from existence the instant Shirou died, it's a pretty sure bet his plan failed, right?

Anyway, a continuation of your original snippet, Charon. Probably not perfect, but readable I think.

*********

Emiya took a deep breath as he contemplated his work. He'd used the previous months to prepare himself as best as he could. Forcing this body to assimilate his fighting skills, training the circuits to handle his magic, discretely gathering informations on his opposition, all that and more. Tomorrow, Bazett Fraga McRemitz would come to Fuyuki together with her Lancer and open the first act of this War. Before that happened, he needed to be ready and that meant performing the last and most critical part of his planning: summoning his Servant.

So here he stood, in the shed in the backyard of the Emiya household, where Kiritsugu had first summoned his Servant and where a fool had stumbled upon a miracle which had saved his life. A life he had wasted in the most ridiculous way.

But not this time.

This time there would be no need for a miracle. He'd carefully traced the summoning circle, chosen the time and prepared the incantation. Here too, he was as ready as he'd ever be.

Just one last step.

ôTrace, on.ö He chanted, but rather than turn toward the hill of his soul, he focused on this body and the treasure hidden within.

He'd pondered the question for a time but in truth there had been no other choice. Saber was by far the best Servant he could hope to summon and so he needed the appropriate catalyst.

Emiya Shirou himself had been it in the original timeline, his foolish mentality overlapping enough with the King of Knights' ethics that she'd answered his call.

But he was different. A twisted existence such as him would without a doubt repel her from beyond the ages.

So, instead he'd fallen back on her sheath. Not the real one though, its abilities were too good to discard unnecessarily, and there was no need for it. He was absolutely confident that, just in this case, he could create a perfect copy. The only perfect copy he'd ever achieve, his greatest projection.

Even as it was, a loose mass of magical energy spread across this body, he could still see it perfectly whole, not even the littlest detail missing. And as he carefully Traced the image in his mind, he gathered the material from this body of fire and steel and then brought them together into reality. There was an intense flash of light and then...

Perfect.

Satisfied, Emiya put the sheath in the center of the circle and began chanting again in earnest. There was no time to waste. Certainly the copy was perfect now, but soon the World would recognize it for the fake it was and corrode it. Before that happened, he needed to perform the summoning.

It was easy. Unlike Rin, he was at his best at the critical times, when his tension was so high it cleared his mind. He endured peacefully the fire that burned him, shrugged off the way his senses went haywire. All that was nothing in comparison to what he had endured.

And finally the shed was bathed in light once again, the command seal engraving themselves on his hand, and she appeared.

Perfect, he thought.

Then something he couldn't see pierced his chest.

For an instant the surprise eclipsed the pain. He blinked and suddenly his sight was filled with her face.

ôSab-er?ö He couldn't understand. This was Saber. Even now as his vision grayed he could have recognized her among thousands. Then...

ôWhy?ö

His heart tightened as he read the pure disinterest on her face. She wrenched her sword away from his body mercilessly, cutting him nearly in two.

And then he noticed the anomalies.

ôShirou...ö

It wasn't his sight that was fading, Saber was really deathly pale. And her armor...

"... You should have killed me when you had the chance.ö

It was black.

As she advanced on him, he couldn't help but laugh as hard as his destroyed chest could manage.

ôA distorted Servant for a distorted Master.ö He whispered. "How fitting."
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#38
Shirou didn't die. Lancer failed to kill Shirou, that's why Rin was able to heal him.

Catalysts aren't used up when used for summonings. That's why they're called catalysts.

So he caused Saber Alter to time-loop too? Different. I didn't expect anyone to write a Bad End scenario.

I'm still at a loss as to exactly how he managed that though. Did he get infected by the shadow before looping?
 

Liam-don

Well-Known Member
#39
Amodelsino said:
Shirou didn't die. Lancer failed to kill Shirou, that's why Rin was able to heal him.
I'm saying that if Archer-within-Shirou still existed after he killed himself, it means that the paradox didn't take since he couldn't exist if there's no EMIYA in the Throne.

Catalysts aren't somehow used up when used for summonings. That's why they're called catalysts.
True, but if EMIYA extracted Avalon from his body, could he put it back? If there's no need to, why take a chance?

So he caused Saber Alter to time-loop too? Different. I didn't expect anyone to write a Bad End scenario.
He's not dead yet.:ph43r:
 

firestorm

Well-Known Member
#40
I wouldn't imagine that he is, considering he doesn't die when he is killed...
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#41
firestorm said:
I wouldn't imagine that he is, considering he doesn't die when he is killed...
I've heard this an number of times now, but I still don't get it. I mean, I get the refeance, but I don't see how it applies to Shirou. He died many time in the Bad Ends and even in the True Ends. It's also been stated that there are a number of situations in which he would die. Unless you are talking about the Time Loop thing.
 

darthturtle

Well-Known Member
#42
Ryuugi said:
firestorm said:
I wouldn't imagine that he is, considering he doesn't die when he is killed...
I've heard this an number of times now, but I still don't get it. I mean, I get the refeance, but I don't see how it applies to Shirou. He died many time in the Bad Ends and even in the True Ends. It's also been stated that there are a number of situations in which he would die. Unless you are talking about the Time Loop thing.
I thought they were referring to Archer-Shirou killing Student-Shirou.

Basically, if Archer is able to kill normal Shirou, then Archer himself must not be affected by Shirou's death, since if he was, then he'd stop existing, and if Archer doesn't exist, then he can't kill Shirou.

In other words, paradox.
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#43
Oh, it's the 'Time to kill Shirou' hour is it? Let's see.



-He was impaled through the heart by Lancer (all routes)
-Nearly severed in half by Berserker (Fate and Heaven's Feel)
-Had his arm severed by Caster and eventually died of shock (Fate route bad end)
-Impaled by Rider on two occasions and was turned to stone (UBW bad end, HF bad end x2)
-His reality marble malfunctioned and he died of multiple, hideous stab wounds (Fate route bad end)
-Torn to shreds by the shadow (Several HF bad ends)
-Got caught in one of Archer's Broken Phantasms (UBW bad end)
-Was again killed by Archer if you failed to secure Lancer's help (UBW bad end)
-Was cut down by Gilgamesh (Fate route bad end)
-Had his head chopped off by Saber (Fate route bad end.)
-Was brutalized by Berserker in several occasions (though he survived it, oh how he wish he didn't.)
-Issei stabbed him to death once (UBW bad end)
-He may also have been devoured by Zoukens worms on one occasion (Not sure about this one. I have to check.)


There's a hell of a lot more too. Consequentially... 'HOLY ****' Nasu! How much are you going to torment this guy!?
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#44
darthturtle said:
Ryuugi said:
firestorm said:
I wouldn't imagine that he is, considering he doesn't die when he is killed...
I've heard this an number of times now, but I still don't get it. I mean, I get the refeance, but I don't see how it applies to Shirou. He died many time in the Bad Ends and even in the True Ends. It's also been stated that there are a number of situations in which he would die. Unless you are talking about the Time Loop thing.
I thought they were referring to Archer-Shirou killing Student-Shirou.

Basically, if Archer is able to kill normal Shirou, then Archer himself must not be affected by Shirou's death, since if he was, then he'd stop existing, and if Archer doesn't exist, then he can't kill Shirou.

In other words, paradox.
It was outright stated that the odds of Archer killing Shirou doing much in the way of anything for Archer himself was Extremely Low. Even Archer himself said so.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070610070740/...wiki.com/Archer

As for why he was trying to do so anyway?

http://web.archive.org/web/20070622235819/...i.pbwiki.com/VS
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#45
Hmm. A thought: The Throne of Heroes is "in" Akasha. The Holy Grail punches a hole through reality into Akasha.

Shiki Tohno can kill concepts.

If Shiki Tohno can get into the Throne of Heroes through the hole created by the Holy Grail, he can probably kill the true Counter-Guardian EMIYA. The toxic mana sludge the Grail produces would probably kill him if he tried, but Archer can trace Avalon to protect him from that.
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#46
nick012000 said:
Hmm. A thought: The Throne of Heroes is "in" Akasha. The Holy Grail punches a hole through reality into Akasha.

Shiki Tohno can kill concepts.

If Shiki Tohno can get into the Throne of Heroes through the hole created by the Holy Grail, he can probably kill the true Counter-Guardian EMIYA. The toxic mana sludge the Grail produces would probably kill him if he tried, but Archer can trace Avalon to protect him from that.
No. Shiki has no chance of doing anything to the Throne.
 

Tsuki_CB

Well-Known Member
#47
Theoretically Shiki could kill anything, at least from my limited knowledge. The problem is besides that he's rather normal by human standards.

So while he could kill say...Saber with a knife he first has to get close enough to hit her without being skewered.

At least that's what I think...I'm probably wrong, Nasuverse has always given me a headache.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#48
No. Nasu confirmed that Nanaya Shiki could never ever kill a Servant. Ever. He can't even fight one, and he could never kill one even with a surprise attack. His mind just can't comprehend their existence.

Even 3rd personality Ryougi can't kill Servants. Though her physical capabilities would allow her to defend herself from a theoretically average one. Maybe.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#49
Amodelsino said:
No. Nasu confirmed that Nanaya Shiki could never ever kill a Servant. Ever. He can't even fight one, and he could never kill one even with a surprise attack. His mind just can't comprehend their existence.

Even 3rd personality Ryougi can't kill Servants. Though her physical capabilities would allow her to defend herself from a theoretically average one. Maybe.
He wouldn't be killing a Servant, though. He'd be killing the Heroic Spirit on the Throne of Heroes.

If Shiki's mind isn't strong enough to comprehend how to kill him, Archer can fix that with a little Reinforcement. ;)
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#50
Wouldn't work. Ignoring that reinforcement wouldn't help him to comprehend them at all (since it wouldn't change his entire way of perceiving reality), reinforcing someone else is incredibly hard. Archer isn't Medea.

EDIT: What are you talking about? Killing the Eirei in Akasha itself would be harder than killing the incarnation of an Eirei known as a Servant, not to mention it would cause one hell of a paradox.
 
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