Nasuverse Fate/time loop

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#1
Counter-Guardian EMIYA opened his eyes, and was quite confused. The ceiling above his head was familiar, being the ceiling of his room at the Emiya house that he'd inherited from his adopted father. The fact that he was here was bizarre, as the Grail War was over, and after he'd killed his past self, he really couldn't see Rin letting him live, much less giving him enough prana that he didn't feel drained, or putting him in his own bed.

He got out of bed, and noticed another anomaly: the room was taller. Looking down at his hands, he saw that they were pale, not the tan that he had long grown used to. Then, he saw the calendar. The first Servant of the Fifth Holy Grail War was most likely summoned last night.

What. The. FUCK!?

*/*/*

So, this would be Shirou's first Loop. Poor Shirou.

If anyone wants to continue this loop, rather than start a new one, feel free.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#2
It's his own fault for messing with things like paradoxes.

Silly EMIYA, paradoxes are for Star Trek, not Counter Guardians.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#3
Doing a time loop thing in Fate - hell, in the Nasuverse, period - is kinda cheating.
After all, there are already two officially-released games focused around that very concept.
 

trevelyan1983

Well-Known Member
#4
Huh. Archer!Shirou. Interesting. He'll know a lot more than he lets on, but he won't have the kind of prana levels he's used to.

Could make for an interesting dynamic, where it's not his 'Hero of Justice' schtick that's getting him owned, but his inability to remember that he's much more squishy now.

Also, I suspect this would be the starting point of an Ilyasviel Route.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#5
Given what Shirou with Archer's tracing abilities managed to do to Saber Alter in Sparks Linear High with three pairs of Kanshou and Bakuya, and the fact that everyone but Gil and Saber under Shirou are susceptible to Gae Bolg (including Lancer himself), I imagine that EMIYA could still take out everyone but Gil and Herakles with Shirou's prana level (as long as it's one on one).

Also, he still has Reinforcement and the fact the he can project anyone's strength as long as he can do the same with their weapon.

The reason EMIYA isn't kicking everyone's ass in the VN is because the war isn't his goal. He's quite capable of killing pretty much everyone involved in the war on the first day if he wanted to. Knowledge is a powerful tool.
 

firestorm

Well-Known Member
#6
Well, he can't in Fate. UBW and HF is a different story.

Have we ever heard about exactly what created Archer? Could have been either Fate route, Ilya route, or an HF bad end (Hero of Justice comes to mind).
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#7
Even Fate Shirou only has a 50% chance at most of becoming a Counter Guardian, so it's significantly different than even that.

He cared about Illya a lot (probably more than he cared about anyone else), but whether or not he was romantically interested in her is never said.

It definitely wasn't Hero of Justice. HF Shirou has absolutely no chance of making a pact with the world (whether this is because he won't or because the world won't offer him one has never been clarified). Besides, he implied that before he gained power from Alaya and started doing stuff like ending entire wars and killing countless numbers of people to do so, he was still just as idealistic as Shirou was in UBW.

It was a completely different situation in his war than all of the VN routes, as a different Archer was summoned, but all the other Servant's were the same.

Fuyuki's usually pretty reliable.
 

firestorm

Well-Known Member
#8
Well, Fate Shirou is pretty idealistic, and he has no idea about who Archer is anyways. Where was it said that in his Grail War Rin summoned a different Archer? I mean, obviously it makes sense, but Fate Shirou didn't know about EMIYA either. UBW and HF Shirous have no chance at becoming EMIYA, given that UBW Shirou is with Rin and HF Shirou gave up on his ideal altogether. But for HF Bad End Shirou...isn't the whole thing about Hero of Justice being him putting his ideals ahead of his friends, making that Shirou a perfect candidate for EMIYA?


EDIT: anyways, so we get more then one snippet.

A flash of light.

"I ask of you, are you my - " A feminine gasp.

"S-Saber?" Impossible. The last thing I remember is a burst of light from Excalibur destroying the Grail. But that voice...

"Shirou!" An impact into my chest.

"Oof!" I look down, and...

There she is. My Servant, the King of Knights. Servant Saber, Arthuria Pendragon.

"Wh-what? The last time I saw you was when you destroyed the Grail, when we attacked after Rin was stabbed!"

She looks at me, puzzled. "Rin...stabbed? Are you sure you are alright, Shirou? Rin was with us when we attacked, and was able, with your help, to sustain me in this world through..." she blushed. Remembering our battle against Berserker, I knew exactly what she was talking about.

UBW Good End Saber and Fate Shirou. :evil2:
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#9
I would think so, but Nasu said that the Shirou's resulting from the HF path would never become EMIYA.
 

firestorm

Well-Known Member
#10
Are you sure it's not Shirous from HF Normal/Good End that he's talking about?
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#11
Even if they result from BAD END's, they're still from the HF route. Personally I don't think it makes sense either, but we know EMIYA (the one in F/SN) isn't from any canon path anyway.

EDIT: Also, it's HF True End. There is no Good End for HF.
 

Epsilon

Well-Known Member
#12
What was the other game that had time loops? I know the first one was Fate Hollow Ataraxia unless you're talking about Kagetsu Tohya which technically isn't a real time loop but a recurring dream based on the Tsukihime story rather than FSN.
 

Epsilon

Well-Known Member
#14
Well, do you have a translated transcript that explains the truth about the time loops in FHA? I'm of the opinion that it's an actual time loop thanks to Rin's experiment which alters the event horizon which changes time and space, thus allowing Bazett to revive and loop along with Avenger.
 

firestorm

Well-Known Member
#15
Sorry, yes, you're right, Normal/True.

Anyways, F/HA is a loop created by the Grail inside Bazett's mind from the destruction of the Grail until she wakes up in Caren's care.
 

Epsilon

Well-Known Member
#16
So I guess it was a dream of sorts.

Hmm... I wonder what type of loop story can come out of this. Maybe an interesting take on Battle Moon Wars?
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#17
I wonder, for the snippet I posted, what would Shirou's goals be (other than 'don't get killed by Archer')?

Also, kind of sad that there's only been two short snippets, so far.
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#18
I'm kind of wondering about the state of EX-counterguardian!Shirou's magic circuit. If I recall, a magic circuit resides in the soul and Archer's was probably altered to an extent by the world.


Edit: So where does Shirou go from there? Since it's only the first or second day into the war, odds are he hasn't gotten stabbed by Lancer yet. Would he actually want to repeat that experience? He could try to summon Saber on his own... but then it'd probably be a bit more difficult to have Rin as an ally...

Archer may or may not be gunning for his head... What to do... what to do...
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#19
Amodelsino said:
Given what Shirou with Archer's tracing abilities managed to do to Saber Alter in Sparks Linear High with three pairs of Kanshou and Bakuya, and the fact that everyone but Gil and Saber under Shirou are susceptible to Gae Bolg (including Lancer himself), I imagine that EMIYA could still take out everyone but Gil and Herakles with Shirou's prana level (as long as it's one on one).

Also, he still has Reinforcement and the fact the he can project anyone's strength as long as he can do the same with their weapon.

The reason EMIYA isn't kicking everyone's ass in the VN is because the war isn't his goal. He's quite capable of killing pretty much everyone involved in the war on the first day if he wanted to. Knowledge is a powerful tool.
First of all, Shirou managed to take Saber Alter because A) her mobility was limited (seriously, it was D Rank), B) her luck was lowered, C) her Instinct was lowered, and D) Saber was underground, so she couldn't use her MP's.

Second of all, when Archer fought Lancer, both Shirou and Rin stated that Archer was about to die.

Third of all, Shirou can't even open UBW by himself.

Fourh of all, it's been stated several times that Shirou would die if he used some of the more powerful NP's.

Fifth of all, Shirou really sucks with Magecraft. Archer is a bit better, but not much. That C- is there for a reason.

Sixth of all, the reason Archer wasn't winning the war is because...a lot of people involved were way stronger then Archer.
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#20
Sixth of all, the reason Archer wasn't winning the war is because...a lot of people involved were way stronger then Archer.

Archer never cared enough for the war to win it. That's not his goal.


Edit: Archer himself is a manipulator and an opportunist. He would set the factions up to kill each other and then pick off the remainders... if his ultimate goal was winning the war... which it isn't.
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#21
Muramasa said:
Sixth of all, the reason Archer wasn't winning the war is because...a lot of people involved were way stronger then Archer.

Archer never cared enough for the war to win it. That's not his goal. And frankly, if he fought like an actual archer instead of closing in short-range, I think his performance in those fights would be much better.

Actually I don't recall Archer ever missing a shot unless he intended to miss in the first place.
The war wasn't his goal, but he was still part of the war. And he didn't do very well.

As to doing better if he fought like an archer, I doubt that. He fought like an Archer against Saber in F/HA. Saber won. Berserker would have done the same, only faster, since he could just pick up Ilya and dodge while going after Archer. Rider has Pegasus and Bellerophon, 'nuff said. Gil is...well, himself. Caster can teleport and put up barriers equal to God Hand, and, more importantly, she isn't someone you want to fight in a ranged battle. Assassin he could probably take down, but Lancer has Protection from Arrows and A Rank Agility.

Archer is not portrayed to be super Hax or anything. There is a reason for that. By comparison, he isn't.
 

toraneko

Well-Known Member
#22
Uh, I read
Muramasa said:
And frankly, if he fought like an actual archer instead of closing in short-range, I think his performance in those fights would be much better.
...and I don't get where the insinuation of "hax" comes in, Ryuugi. "Would've done better" is not the same as "He would've WON DAMMIT!"
 

Ryuugi

Well-Known Member
#23
toraneko said:
Uh, I read
Muramasa said:
And frankly, if he fought like an actual archer instead of closing in short-range, I think his performance in those fights would be much better.
...and I don't get where the insinuation of "hax" comes in, Ryuugi. "Would've done better" is not the same as "He would've WON DAMMIT!"
The hax comment was just in response to how Archer is often portrayed, and not directed at anyone.

By the way, Muramasa, on the state of EX-counterguardian!Shirou's magic circuits? They'd be the same, since the World just provides infinite prana.
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
#24
As to doing better if he fought like an archer, I doubt that. He fought like an Archer against Saber in F/HA. Saber won.
Saber died at least twice.

It was through pre-knowledge Shirou hax that Saber won the last. So no, I don't doubt that.

Mura below:

No, it's not true. Archer being an actual archer is damn dangerous, to all the Servants. It's sneak headshot from miles away, which even if the Servant would survive, the Master wouldn't.
 

Muramasa

Well-Known Member
#25
As to doing better if he fought like an archer, I doubt that. He fought like an Archer against Saber in F/HA. Saber won.
Is that so? Huh... Actually F/HA is one of my biggest blind spots as far as my knowledge of Type-Moon goes. I gotta read up on that.

@Avider: Right... I really have to read up on that part.


Berserker would have done the same, only faster, since he could just pick up Ilya and dodge while going after Archer.
:huh: Berserker can think to dodge while being mad enhanced? *shrugs* moot point. We already know Archer can't handle Berserker by himself.


Rider has Pegasus and Bellerophon, 'nuff said.
Bellerophon requires a period of preparation before it can be pulled off. Quite difficult when your constantly being peppered with sword-arrows.

Gil is...well, himself.
....yeah.

Caster can teleport and put up barriers equal to God Hand, and, more importantly, she isn't someone you want to fight in a ranged battle.
UBW route had Archer fight Caster at range. He won.

Assassin he could probably take down, but Lancer has Protection from Arrows and A Rank Agility.
Against Archer's normal shots' sure. But what can 'Protection from Arrows' do with projectiles that explode in your face (i.e. Broken Phantasms)? . The agility part of the equation though is noted.
 
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