Nasuverse Fate/zero - Emiya is summoned by Tokiomi

teammfmjamie

Well-Known Member
#1
As the title says it's an idea where Emiya is summoned by Tokiomi.

I've planned it a fair bit out and I was hoping for some comments, feedback or advice on what I might have missed by the ripple effect.

- Without Gilgamesh there he won't be able to corrupt Kirei along the way, but he will still be an iffy individual.

- Saber and Rider get to have their drinking session in peace, though no high quality wine.

- I have an idea where he fights against Kiritsugu at some point, the idea is based off where Archer and Shirou fight in the ubw route where Archer says he can't be beaten by Shirou because he's his ideal, I'm thinking he could say something similiar to Kiritsugu.

- Peforming his role as Counter Guardian instead of worrying about getting rid of his past self.

That's the major things I've thought of so far.

I have a small idea of maybe having him see his child self at some point, just with his parents or something, just to write it in as it would be the perfect chance to destroy himself, with an arrow and then end the paradox...

I'm also thinking that Tokiomi seems like the type of person to use a Command Spell to force the identity out of him...

P.S. I've read a few fics where they mention how Archer knows Luvia Edifelt, but all the sources I've ever read have only had Rin know her...

Thank you. =)
 

Garlak

Well-Known Member
#2
A Servant is not a Counter Guardian.

Archer would not ever be compelled by the Counter Force to do shit. If the Counter Force were involved, and it made use of Emiya, it would make another copy, rather then a Servant. Alternatively, the CF would nudge people/events to have things resolved to its' satisfaction as a first attempt--this is not the same as somebody selling their soul to it for a miracle though.


Again: Archer hated being a "cleaner." He is not going to start mass-murdering the crap out of witnesses while inexorably moving toward a goal.

If Archer is summoned, he is not a Counter Guardian, any more then, say, Rider Alexander.
 

teammfmjamie

Well-Known Member
#3
Oh, I guess I got mixed up from the whole people always saying "Archer decided to do his role as Counter Guardian" in HF route, as it's the one I haven't had the chance to read through...
 

lask

Well-Known Member
#4
teammfmjamie said:
Oh, I guess I got mixed up from the whole people always saying "Archer decided to do his role as Counter Guardian" in HF route, as it's the one I haven't had the chance to read through...
He weighted the value of one life against all the lives risked by letting that one life go on, and said no. That's very very different from being a Counter-Guardian, in much the same way sniping a hostage-taker is much different then dropping a bomb on a hostage taker so that everyone knows you don't fool around.

One is a sane, logical, moral reaction, the other isn't.
 

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
#5
Well, while Archer most likely wouldn't obsess over killing his past self (hopefully), I could perfectly see him obsess over something else.

Making sure that that fucking fire doesn't happen and therefore preventing his past self from becoming Distorted.
 

Aarik

Well-Known Member
#6
Deathwings said:
Well, while Archer most likely wouldn't obsess over killing his past self (hopefully), I could perfectly see him obsess over something else.

Making sure that that fucking fire doesn't happen and therefore preventing his past self from becoming Distorted.
Without Gilgamesh, the fire is impossible...

Well, unless BERSERKER get's that F-15 again and drops demonic flare bombs like candy somehow.
 

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
#7
You're underestimating the Universe vindictiveness. And Archer's awful luck. :p
 

Jorlem

Well-Known Member
#8
Wasn't the fire caused by the corruption in the Greater Grail overflowing once Saber Excaliblasted the Holy Grail out of existence? Even if Gilgamesh isn't there, it still could happen, as Angra Mainyu is still in the Grail.
 

Archanon

Well-Known Member
#9
From what I remember, the fire was Kotomine's wish on the grail... though I could be remembering entirely wrong.
 

Jorlem

Well-Known Member
#10
Looking back at the translation, its not completely clear. Gilgamesh tells Kirei that the destruction was Kirei's wish, but that was after the destruction had been completed, and Kirei had been killed before the Greater Grail had six Servants, and was able to grant a wish. On the other hand, the Holy Grail was communicating with Kiritsugu and Kirei before that, and might have heard his wish then. We really only have the corrupted Gilgamesh's word that that was Kirei's wish.

Either way, I think it's fairly clear that any wish that is made is going to be distorted by Angra Mainyu's wish, and will be 'granted' through destruction.
 

Cherry_lover

Well-Known Member
#11
lask said:
He weighted the value of one life against all the lives risked by letting that one life go on, and said no. That's very very different from being a Counter-Guardian, in much the same way sniping a hostage-taker is much different then dropping a bomb on a hostage taker so that everyone knows you don't fool around.

One is a sane, logical, moral reaction, the other isn't.
That's not any different from what the Counter Force does. It kills anyone who is a potential threat to ensure that the threat is exterminated. It takes no risks, just like MoS Shirou didn't, and thus just eliminates anyone in the vicinity to make sure the problem is resolved.

Further, at that point Shirou does not know the true situation, so based on what he (and Archer) know there was no reason whatsoever to kill Sakura. However, Archer made no real attempt to kill Sakura, he just went along with Rin's intentions.
 

AOG

Active Member
#12
Actually, they had a reason at that point, it just wasn't a very good one. Kirei said she "might" not survive the surgery to get rid of rest of the worms, and it was a huge risk to try. So he then does (in normal Kotomine fashion) of egging on our naive heroes to do his dirty work. I mean really, he was smiling for that entire scene. The thing at this point they had to deal with is "through prana deprivation, she'll go crazy and attack people". Kirei knew everything about what was happening by the time he operated on her. As Shirou found out in the church later on (and punched Kirei good for his trouble), HF was one big troll from both Zouken and Kotomine. Our protagonists just fell for it.

But anyway, Archer as Tokiomi's servant? Well now that he has a chance to live through the war, he might be able to fix a few things... though Berserker might be too much for him to handle. Archer can't be as wasteful as Gil is.
 

Deathwings

Well-Known Member
#13
Archer is also far, far, FAAAAAAAAAAR more skilled then Gil could ever hope to be.

Also, while he can't carpet bomb an area quite as well as Gil can, he can however snipe people with homing explosive arrows from several kilometers away.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#14
Deathwings said:
Archer is also far, far, FAAAAAAAAAAR more skilled then Gil could ever hope to be.

Also, while he can't carpet bomb an area quite as well as Gil can, he can however snipe people with homing explosive arrows from several kilometers away.
True. <a href='http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Hrunting' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Hrunting</a>, as an arrow, is damn scary, especially when he has enough prana to do it repeatedly in a fairly short time, and I don't think anyone in the Fourth had a defense like Herakles God Hand lolnohax to stop it. Saber did fairly well in F/ha, but mainly because Archer was killed.

If Archer knows about the corruption of the Grail, I could see him telling his Master, and perhaps arranging to not need to fight Saber. Really, how much he's willing to tell will be a very BIG[/b factor in how this war goes.

That, of course, means that you should work out how Archer's version of the Fifth Heaven's Feel went.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#15
Saber did well because of Instinct and lol they're both Emiya Shirou.

If Archer actually fulfilled his role as an archer, then he could just kill servants before they could react from kilometers away.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#16
Amodelsino said:
Saber did well because of Instinct and lol they're both Emiya Shirou.

If Archer actually fulfilled his role as an archer, then he could just kill servants before they could react from kilometers away.
Saber's instinct would probably let her react and block them. A bunch of the other servants would have similar abilities.
 

Amodelsino

Well-Known Member
#17
No they wouldn't? Saber's instinct let her block them because it borders on flat out precognition, and they weren't BPs, just charged Hruntings (even the final one that Shirou used Rho Aius to block would have come around again if Saber hadn't managed to kill Archer). She still lost the first time and Shirou got killed.

It would be a different story if he'd actually taken the time to overcharge them so they would explode.
 

Ragnarock

Well-Known Member
#18
nick012000 said:
Amodelsino said:
Saber did well because of Instinct and lol they're both Emiya Shirou.

If Archer actually fulfilled his role as an archer, then he could just kill servants before they could react from kilometers away.
Saber's instinct would probably let her react and block them. A bunch of the other servants would have similar abilities.
Saber couldn't block them at all, she just deflected them away because the attack was just that powerful.
 
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