Akamatsuverse Fixing Keitaro is Wrong

[Terdwilicker]

I need to say this, and I'm one of the hypocrites since I wrote a couple LONG stories... no, more like 4-5 of them including the short ones, where Keitaro says "no more beatings" in some variation and proceeds to correct his life. At the time, it seemed obvious and would produce a more sensible and likable ending to the series.

Now, with the power of 20-20 hindsight I realize that was a terrible mistake. Why? Because Keitaro isn't supposed to be a reasonable fixable character. He's broken and meant to stay that way. Much of the humor of LH isn't meant to be taken literally (obviously) and you could translate the silly punches into insults or cutting remarks instead but Akamatsu isn't quite good enough at dialogue to pull that off so he went with the cliche LEO punches from Project A-Ko and Ranma. I still like the Manga. I still like the Anime. I just think that attempting to fix it is doomed to OC'ness and failure. Keitaro is quick to lie, for himself of for others. He's not brave much of the time, though he gets moreso until the Jump The Shark timeskip when he returns from the USA acting like Seta Mk.2. Many of us disliked his character after that. LH isn't realistic, isn't meant to be, and some of the characters are very poorly described (Kitsune), with only Naru and Motoko even developing, really. Shinobu too, I suppose.

I don't read or watch Akamatsu's current projects. His harem tendencies scream of cocaine abuse to me, or at least exploitation of women. Women are 51% of the population. Its very unwise to piss them off. While LH had an interesting feminist subtext to each of the female characters, I don't see anything like that in his other work, an idea I guess he abandoned as too much effort with too few noticing his point. Or maybe his lifestyle changed too much so he lost touch.

I guess I'm trying to say that I'm withdrawing from LH fanfic despite writing a fair bit of it and reading a lot more. Others should continue with it. Maybe they'll avoid this sense of futility I've discovered. I hope so.

 

[Shaderic]

So, you're leaving the fandom? I respect your decision, but somehow, your parting words... irk me.

It feels like ... well, I don't know how to put it. Bitchy.

Well, that's your opinion, and I respect it.

 

[Terdwilicker]

So, you're leaving the fandom? I respect your decision, but somehow, your parting words... irk me.

It feels like ... well, I don't know how to put it. Bitchy.

Well, that's your opinion, and I respect it.

I should probably clarify then. I dislike how Akamatsu has developed his niche away from his rather touching story (LH) about a guy and a bunch of young women and the potential romance which mostly failed to develop properly because the series would end if he resolved it and allowed Keitaro and Naru to come clean. Or Motoko. Or dealt with Shinobu, who remains a loose end when the series ended. Or his sister Kanako's obsessive tendencies. Stuff that should have mattered and gotten resolved before the ending just got dropped and I find that disrespectful to the characters, and thus to the fans.

Really, LH ran on too long despite not resolving or even properly dealing with important plot/character points. Perhaps his newer series just exploits what his fans want most, and it has better sales to justify it. I'm just... disappointed that he walled off his tender side and did that silly lolicon/shota story instead of dealing with grown women and how they feel about love, which is really what LH was about.

I'm disappointed in the author. I don't hate the fandom. I don't hate or even dislike the fans. I just see that LH isn't about fixing Keitaro. If you're holding true to LH properly, you can't fix him. It's not LH anymore with a Keitaro that doesn't screw up constantly or doubt himself or stop with his monomaniacal insanity. In his way, he's as crazy as Kaolla Su. You take away his faults and you've merely Gary Stu'd him into Seta Mk.2 earlier. If you keep him angsty but avoid the 3s Company cliches of the first episodes his life goes easier, sure, but is that what LH is really about? Existing peacefully in the dorms? No. Its about strife and lies and misunderstandings and outbursts of violence without consequence and inane distractions with occasional deep views into the character backgrounds. LH is this insane period in Kei's life and the women he lives with. Taking away that energy and insanity is... well its demeaning to who he is and it makes any attempt something lesser.

I consider AZ a friend and I'm looking forward to reading his work when he starts writing smarter and more complex and less clicheed characters. He knows I have this expectation from him and he's not shying away from it once he finishes this stuff, assuming he continues writing. I stopped reading his story Legacy because it just feels like a stack of cliches and its too painful to see these characters twisted up to make the story work. Its hard to write sympathetic villains in anime, there just aren't that many animes with villains who are smart and are doing their own version of good. Legacy is dragging. I wonder if he feels like its dragging too? I guess my core argument beyond the characterization is I have a lot more female friends than he does and I can't see ANY women wanting to share a man intentionally. Its not in their nature. The suspension of disbelief grew too great. Legacy became cancerous and I suspect that AZ may feel this way too and just wants to finish it. He should probably answer that himself, however. So far, my favorite AZ story is his Full Metal Panic one. That was clever, well characterized, had some interesting twists and the women interacting with Sousuke seem more plausible than any "open harem". Its also an interesting retelling of that book, too adding a good element to it.

I have a lot of respect for RX7's work. Its consistently high quality, emotional with deeper characterization than one usually finds in fanfiction, particularly written by a male. I've enjoyed reading Midwinter and understood why he stopped writing it, and why he's taken such a strange turn with Kei and Kitsune's interaction into very unexpected territory. I think he respects the "real" Keitaro more than most of us do, thus Kei's failure in facing Kitsune at her most vulnerable. That's a deep understanding of both their canon characters. His depiction of Motoko, while somewhat cliche lesbian is a bit of a reach, still works and I liked her pondering while in the hospital on her feelings over Naru and Kei. I think RX7 has a good plan for Midwinter, despite not telling US what it is, and I'll keep reading it unless it suddenly becomes inconsolably silly, which is not typical for him.

Lord Raa has never tried to write anything but Crack AFAIK. When you read his work you don't expect on-target characterization so I don't get perturbed by that. His weird xovers are often very amusing and I will probably continue reading what he does so long as it doesn't accidentally turn maudlin.

I'm still sad that Akamatsu didn't develop Motoko more before he ended the series. He really should have. And with Kitsune who ends up a disposable bottle fairy, much like we have Shinobu as a fainting violet and doesn't really show much backbone beyond her intro in the first few episodes. Sad, I tell you. It could have been better. Perhaps some fanfic authors can write scenes that expand the characters without violating their characterization or attempting to "fix" Keitaro.

Something Akamatsu did that I really approve of. He never sues fanfic writers. Take that, Rowling.

 

[PCHeintz72]

I'm a little confused on the purpose of the thread. You start off with an analysis of Keitaro, then swap to your own views on the series itself.

As for Keitaro... I like some of the darker stories that attmept to put a darker spin on events. Keitaro centric stories with him 'broke' can be pretty well done (I wish some of these authors would continue their stories though). Some examples include:

- 'Leaving Hinata' by Tezza1502
- 'Love Hina: A Friend in Need' by Tezza1502
- 'Picking Up The Pieces' by Crippled Wings
- 'Friends' by Chibi Fenrir
- 'Fallen Blade' by SimmyC

As for Love Hina and Akamatsu writing in general...

I liked Love Hina anime, I liked Negima anime, I liked A.I. Love You manga... However, I have had troubles reading his remaining works.

- Love Hina manga has literally bored me to sleep on more than one occasion and except for better development of Motoko, Tsuruko, and Kanako... thought it worse than anime.

- Negima manga I'm having a problem with the scanlation I have... it is literally inducing headaches from the constant shifts in fonts, pt sizes, and color of the text.

 

[Terdwilicker]

I'm a little confused on the purpose of the thread. You start off with an analysis of Keitaro, then swap to your own views on the series itself.

Hmm. Still need to clarify then.

Keitaro is meant to fail, from the beginning because that's the gimmick. A lovable loser character stops being lovable when he stops losing. Keitaro isn't a respectable character when he becomes Seta Mk.2. LH Jumps the Shark then and its all downhill with the exception of Motoko's major introspection near the end of the series. I find it hard to respect Akamatsu for destroying the franchise in that writing mistake.

 

[PCHeintz72]

I'm a little confused on the purpose of the thread.? You start off with an analysis of Keitaro, then swap to your own views on the series itself.

Hmm. Still need to clarify then.

Keitaro is meant to fail, from the beginning because that's the gimmick. A lovable loser character stops being lovable when he stops losing. Keitaro isn't a respectable character when he becomes Seta Mk.2. LH Jumps the Shark then and its all downhill with the exception of Motoko's major introspection near the end of the series. I find it hard to respect Akamatsu for destroying the franchise in that writing mistake.

Meh... I guess it depends upon interpretation.

He still gets chased by Naru, she certainly still gets angry at him, it is implied he still gets hit by her (at least in the U.S. release it is). Aunt and others can still walk all over him, martial arts skills or not.

Personally... I feel sorry for the poor sod at the end, and of course myself, who spent money on it.

 

[Fenrir]

Not to sound rash, but Love Hina is really just another love comedy. The only thing that really sets it apart from other ones is Keitaro himself and that's not by much considering there are still quite a few protagonists just like him. However, Keitaro's kindness and tenacity is what make him who he is.

I completely agree with the the idea that fixing that part of his character is the wrong way to go. When Keitaro 'finally gets tired of the girls', you experience something along the lines of Shinji 'getting a backbone' if you know what I mean. Of course, Keitaro is capable of getting angry and Shinji stands up for himself sometimes but 'fixing' integral parts of their character often cheapens who they really are in the process.

Love Hina wasn't about Keitaro staying the same loser that he was. As a love comedy, he was suppose to have silly misunderstandings and make stupid mistakes along the way to securing the relationship he wanted from the start. The fact that he got better didn't undermine his character, it was to stress that he had overcome the burdens he faced at first to become someone that all the girls loved. I mean it could have been a drama or a slice-of-life kind of thing, but it was just a love comedy and that was all it was. If you want to take a serious approach to the story, there were more grievous mistakes than just Keitaro becoming more like Seta.

 

[Lord Raine]

Fixing Keitaro is Wrong

Leaving him the same is boring. This is fan fiction. We can make people grow extra pairs of balls, shoot lasers out their eyes, or pilot giant robot samurai if we want to. Unless you're a supremely good writer that can twist character mentalities and interactions into lace, you aren't going to do very well with that angle.


Also, attempt to critically analyze Keitaro fails. He was made to be the most generic individual possible. Akamatsu said so himself. There is absolutely nothing remarkable about him. The only thing that makes Keitaro at all different from anyone is that he has general handyman skills, and can cook like a demon. Everything else about him is pure vanilla. He's the quintessencial Standard Guy?. Every aspect of his existence is meant to invoke the feeling of "hey, that could be me" within the target auidence.

Ergo, the argument that he should not be changed is absurd. Keitaro was built to be changed. Akamatsu did it that way deliberately, and took advantage of it himself by using that setup to turn Keitaro into a kind of neo Indiana Jones. Fixing and/or changing Keitaro is the entire point of Keitaro.


This is not a complaint about fixing Keitaro. It's a complaint about one specific thing that gets "fixed", and it's only an issue because it's addressed so often in fan fiction that it has become supremely cliche.

 

[Fenrir]

Fixing Keitaro is Wrong

Leaving him the same is boring.

I understand what you mean, but I don't agree with that sentiment. I read fanfiction because I prefer to see characters the way they are. I have no problem with character development and I actually welcome it, but a lot of writers that go as far as switching up his character forget about the importance of making the actual transition.

I prefer seeing characters explored the way they are instead of seeing them striaght change for the better or worse. I'm cool with people building on characters and/or expanding on them, but someone looking to change them to better suit their story or something should consider original stories.

Also, Keitaro is still a character no matter how flat and generic he is believed to be. In fact, I don't see him as the stereotypical love comedy protagonist for several reasons so I don't think it's fair to say he's as generic as possible seeing that he has several qualities from the get go that separates him from the rest.

Characters aren't meant to change, they're meant to grow.

 

[knight_of_ni]

Not to sound rash, but Love Hina is really just another love comedy. The only thing that really sets it apart from other ones is Keitaro himself and that's not by much considering there are still quite a few protagonists just like him. However, Keitaro's kindness and tenacity is what make him who he is.

I completely agree with the the idea that fixing that part of his character is the wrong way to go. When Keitaro 'finally gets tired of the girls', you experience something along the lines of Shinji 'getting a backbone' if you know what I mean. Of course, Keitaro is capable of getting angry and Shinji stands up for himself sometimes but 'fixing' integral parts of their character often cheapens who they really are in the process.

Love Hina wasn't about Keitaro staying the same loser that he was. As a love comedy, he was suppose to have silly misunderstandings and make stupid mistakes along the way to securing the relationship he wanted from the start. The fact that he got better didn't undermine his character, it was to stress that he had overcome the burdens he faced at first to become someone that all the girls loved. I mean it could have been a drama or a slice-of-life kind of thing, but it was just a love comedy and that was all it was. If you want to take a serious approach to the story, there were more grievous mistakes than just Keitaro becoming more like Seta.

That's not rash at all, Love Hina is not that good. I found a good few of the fanfics better than the manga and some of them did screw around more with Keitaro's character than I would like now. LH is just rather dull, imo.

 

[PCHeintz72]

I should note one thing. Keitaro is not truly normal... Were that the case, Naru and Motoko would have insured any normal individual would have died the first day he met them.

For a more 'bad ass', or a character of a Harem / love saga with more of a backbone, one should problably be looking at something like Happy Lesson and the character of Chitose.

 

[Lord Raine]

Characters aren't meant to change, they're meant to grow.

If you're doing it right, then there is no difference at all between those two things. I see no difference between them, certainly.

I don't think it's fair to say he's as generic as possible seeing that he has several qualities from the get go that separates him from the rest.

But he is generic. He has nothing going for him that could not be applied effortlessly to any other main male lead. Give me two minutes, and I could come up with dozens of ways for Keitaro as a character to be completely encompassed by someone like Ichigo, Ranma, or Naruto, all in addition to what they already are.

In fact, it's arguable that Ranma is already there, and we just never see it. It would be absurdly easy to say he has the exact same skillset, given his training trip around the world.

I should note one thing. Keitaro is not truly normal... Were that the case, Naru and Motoko would have insured any normal individual would have died the first day he met them.

As fun as it is to play with, it's made quite clear by the context of the manga that Keitaro's durability is nothing more than a gag. Like Mutsumi's inhuman strength.

 

[knight_of_ni]

Characters aren't meant to change, they're meant to grow.

If you're doing it right, then there is no difference at all between those two things. I see no difference between them, certainly.

There is a difference in what is meant, character growth, from what I can tell, means that a character has learned or changed from in story experiences. Change, from what I understand, just means randomly changing a character by changing set character traits into something they aren't. There is also the fact that "change" would probably be sudden, and growth would be developed over the story.

I have read many fics with character change, but fics generally lack character growth.

God dammit, I said I wouldn't post. This will only end in rage.

 

[AkinaAE86]

I should probably clarify then. I dislike how Akamatsu has developed his niche away from his rather touching story (LH) about a guy and a bunch of young women and the potential romance which mostly failed to develop properly because the series would end if he resolved it and allowed Keitaro and Naru to come clean. Or Motoko. Or dealt with Shinobu, who remains a loose end when the series ended. Or his sister Kanako's obsessive tendencies. Stuff that should have mattered and gotten resolved before the ending just got dropped and I find that disrespectful to the characters, and thus to the fans.

I agree on this point.

However I think Keitaro change after the timskip was needed. He got a mentor, albeit a messed up one, and he basically turned into Seta Ver. II.

Keitaro's weakness comes from his own insecurities, once those issues were resolved. Sort of. He became more confident.

 

[darthturtle]

Keitaro had been making gradual changes since chapter one. All the characters had, to an extent. The fact that a timeskip took place and Keitaro was offscreen for a while does not mean that he stops growing entirely.

Already seen that sort of drunk logic happen with Naruto, and we more or less agree that that was unbelievable.

 

[FinalMax]

The problem isn't fixing a character's flaws. It's doing so in a believable manner. The hallmark of a good story is the growth of the main characters. Some stories don't even need that much of a plot, so long as the characters grow in a way we can look at and say "that makes sense."

That concept explains why timeskips are extremely risky. Most timeskips will sadly either exaggerate character growth to the point of being ridiculous or, as in darthturtle's example of Naruto, completely reverses character growth. Since we don't see what's happened, we end up with a disruption of what is supposed to be a continuous story. However, some of the best uses of a timeskip occur when the story is more of a chronicle. A skip from the end of one defining event in a character's history to the beginning of the next can generally produce a good effect for the reader.

On Negima, I always understood it as Akamatsu's version of a "fuck you" to the publishers. If I remember correctly, Kodansha wanted him to make another romantic comedy when he wanted to try his hand at a more action-oriented series. So Negima started with an attempted subversion of a romantic comedy before going into the action parts, though I do suspect that some of the girls were the result of corporate meddling.

Not surprisingly, I dislike the animated versions of both Negima and Love Hina. This stems more from reading the manga before watching the series, but both shows had a tendency to leave out chunks of the manga. Love Hina ended during the Burning Blade arc of the manga, and Negima didn't even really go into volume 5 when they ended the first failed attempt at a TV series. I won't go more into detail on how bad the Negima anime was, but I will commend the English dub for being bad enough to make it more bearable.