FSN + SAO: j-jam it in!

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#1
1 Index
A hyperlinked list of good or important posts. A convenient reference to strong ideas that I, the author, rely on.

1.1 Chapter Plans
1.1.1 Chapters 1 - 3
1.1.2 Chapters 3 - 5 (tentative) (below some discussion)
1.1.3 Chapters 5 - 8 (plus Grimlock's betrayal plan)
1.1.4 Chapters 7 (plus Arc Plan 2)
1.1.5 Chapters 8 - 10
1.1.6 Chapter 10 (revisited)
1.1.7 Chapters 11 - 18 (first pass)
1.1.8 Chapters 11 - 19 (second pass); also "Meanwhile, Outside" first pass
1.1.9 Chapters 11 - 19 (third pass) + Griselda's Guild Current!

1.2 Arc Plans
1.2.1 SAO: Arc Plan 1.0
1.2.2 SAO: Arc plan 1.1 Current!

1.3 Content Discussion
(Spoiler-tagged to compress because it's pretty long).
1.3.1 Content Dump 1: Mundane Skills Only, Don't die even if killed, No Safe Zones, Magecraft Rules, Character's Magecraft Traits
1.3.2 Deathnotes: "What if SAO was Phase One?"
1.3.3 How Kayaba can give Circuits to Muggles IRL
1.3.4 Shadow Zeranion: On who Shirou should save in-game
1.3.5 Content Dump 2: Kayaba and Ilya, Kayaba's magecraft, in-game magecraft

1.3.6 Avider: Kayaba's offer to Ilya could be cooler
1.3.7 Shadow Zeranion: Game simplifications could be trouble? Answer: "Increased Realism"
1.3.8 Why I made Diabel more important
1.3.9 Player Factions: Bumps on a Log, The Army, Criminals, Clearers. Demographics. Disaster Arc proposed.
1.3.10 Happery: Crime doesn't pay (in the game), when will [Inventories] be removed?

1.3.11 Muramasa: who's gonna cure Yuuki?
1.3.12 Introducing the Minecraft Mod
1.3.13 Argo's story role. Runecraft, for Diabel.
1.3.14 "Mental Acceleration" isn't going to happen like in SAO canon.
1.3.15 On Shipping (relationships, not transportation infrastructure) (plus the origin of Sachi's Origin)

1.3.16 Vanigo: Could the Amusphere even be used for magitech? Deathwings: Sure why not
1.3.17 Hexadecimal, One Snow, Itagaki explained
1.3.18 Power Armor vs. Mystic Codes. Environmental Challenge Floors proposed
1.3.19 Gwonbush: Environmental Challenge Floors shouldn't be deadly
1.3.20 Mobile Bases like Charon suggested are a good idea. Posts following are Environmental Challenge Floor suggestions.

1.3.21 If you were Kayaba, how would you get people to learn magic?
1.3.22 Sunder the Gold: Magecraft Tutoring mechanic proposed
1.3.23 Lost Star: Ilya should become a Builder from Mission Creep
1.3.24 Argo, title, how to organize on ffnet
1.3.25 Where Lizbeth's guildmates came from

1.3.26 Content Dump: Possible equipment
1.3.27 Happery describes why "magecraft weakens as more people know it" doesn't make sense
1.3.28 Dead Players vs. Live Players
1.3.29 In-game magic systems
1.3.30 weapon crafting and steel

1.3.31 weapon crafting and way more about steel than you ever cared to know
1.3.32 Ravraxas: Hey there aren't any Arias.
1.3.33 Vanigo's popular Final Boss Fight idea
1.3.34 The Church and the Final Boss
1.3.35 Lost Star: "The Disaster" doesn't require "Remove Safe Zones"

1.3.36 loirit: "The Disaster" means players become responsible for safety instead of Safe Zones
1.3.37 Ravraxas: "Magecraft Heritages" could be a thing
1.3.38 Counting up people's elements
1.3.39 Nasuren: why remove Safe Zones?
1.3.40 Why I would add Ayako or other Fuyuki Kids

1.3.41 Estrecca: There were ranged weapons in the Beta
1.3.42 Timeline compared to outside the game (through chapter seven)
1.3.43 How Ayako was hurt in the VN, and how she could be used in the game
1.3.44 Kirei and Shirou. My assessment of Emiya Style Heroism using the Trolley Problem.
1.3.45 Brainstorming the 3rd Floor Boss

1.3.46 Maybe I'll collapse the currency called [Col]
1.3.47 Patent Mechanic proposed
1.3.48 loirit: Public vs. Private magecraft summarized
1.3.49 Starting a discussion on Ilya's magecraft
1.3.50 More on wishcraft, and answering Puncak re: Ilya vs. Masquerade

1.3.51 Puncak: Ilya and a magecraft theme
1.3.52 Grimlock is desperate and trapped
1.3.53 Seven-color Slimes and the 4th Floor Field Boss
1.3.54 Prospective Ranged Weapon Skills
1.3.55 Puncak: Add Ranged Weapons in the next arc

1.3.56 Ranged Weapons in Beta vs. in Launch
1.3.57 Summarizing how stakeholders will react to the Game End
1.3.58 Numerology, esp. Isopsephy
1.3.59 Content Dump: After SAO ends (tentative)
1.3.60 Ryune: Armored Core is better than Gundam (for a model)

1.3.61 Some Design Parameters for the "sequel"
1.3.62 Leidolf: Ideas for vs. Slime King
1.3.63 Leidolf: Does Grimlock not know the Emiya and Eiznbern names?
1.3.64 Ryune: Iteration of Mecha ALO replacement design
1.3.65 What should I do with Chapter 9.3?

1.3.66 Familiars Patch: Let's talk about it
1.3.67 Familiars in FSN canon; ideas for here
1.3.68 Lost Star: Familiars as a Spore Minigame
1.3.69 Lost Star: Kayaba might run out of RAM?
1.3.70 loirit: Learn about Ploys 1 & 2

1.3.71 Wing101: I think I'm gonna write spin-off fanfiction
1.3.72 About Wing's thing, then [The Disaster]
1.3.73 Puncak: On Familiars. Also, what's the definition of a homonculus anyway?
1.3.74 loirit: Learn about Ploys 3 & 4
1.3.75 lethum: Familiars and the Disaster

1.3.76 Lost Star: Most games would Nerfbat OP players
1.3.77 Vanigo: Why not make Zolgen the Familiarcraft teacher?
1.3.78 Nasuren: Should Kayaba be toughening Bosses in response to just Shirou?
1.3.79 Touching the Nerfbat give Kayaba hives. [Hard Mode] is proposed.
1.3.80 Spectrum: What could hard mode be?

1.3.81 Leidolf: Char concepts for my spinoff fanfic
1.3.82 Azure: Hard Mode is a bad idea (narratively)
1.3.83 Leidolf: If Shirou is too strong the Front Line could get complacent
1.3.84 Hardcore Heathen: Hard Mode is clunky. Maybe Kayaba offers direct bribes instead?
1.3.85 killeregglord: What if [Bumps on a Log] were part of Kayaba's KEIKAKU?

1.3.86 I don't like Hard Mode either. Responding to killeregglord and Azunth about The Disaster.
1.3.87 Shirou and Sword Familiars... and what I really wanted Hard Mode to be! Also what if Kayaba stole CT magecraft?
1.3.88 lethum: [Titled Players] proposed.
1.3.89 Nasuren: what if [Titled Players] conferred benefits on their friends?
1.3.90 Hard Mode summarized. [Titled Players] benefits package drafted. Title Candidates. Achievements.

1.3.91 Like an entire essay about builds and what builds characters are running
1.3.92 Spectrum: PoH's backstory from the webnovels
1.3.93 You get to read my complaints against PoH
1.3.94 Why I think PoH was bad character design
1.3.95 Deathwings catches my gag about Lind and Shirou (romantically???)

1.3.96 The [Skill Creator] at the heart of the "sequel"
1.3.97 Ravraxas: Effort vs. Cleverness vs. Talent
1.3.98 Stitching up "The Complete List of Magecraft"
1.3.99 Spells vs. Systems
1.3.100 What if Kayaba twisted Diabel's arm into solving the [Bumps on a Log] for him?

1.3.101 Ravraxas: Will Shirou give Argo an Azoth dagger?
1.3.102 Magician vs. Magus. Azoth for Argo. What should I do to Kuradeel?
1.3.103 Ravraxis: Ways Kuradeel could be a Special Snowflake
1.3.104 killeregglord: ideas re: Argo, Kirito, and Shirou run a quest
1.3.105 Wandering Airhead: Dead Players and PvP, what about them?

1.3.106 Trying to quantify how much PKing there could be
1.3.107 Tonaris: Magecraft changes the body?
1.3.108 I think I'm just gonna drop the Argo-Shirou-Kirito quest in chapter 10
1.3.109 Leidolf: I'm more interested in the aftermath of chapter 10
1.3.110 Nephirin: Ilya and Transference of Conciousness

1.3.111 Ravraxas and Haperry: On how good the BSM would be, as a guild
1.3.112 Hardcore Heathen: Responses to first pass 11-18 chapter plan
1.3.113 Ravraxas: Would a Rare Element be a handicap in its own way?
1.3.114 Hardcore Heathen: Wishlist response: Bounded Fields and Character utilization
1.3.115 Valient: Why is Kirito even joining the Black Cats anyway?

1.3.116 My response to Valient, also some musing re: Kuradeel
1.3.117 Haperry: re: Chapter Plan 11-19 v2: Needs more Griselda
1.3.118 Drachasor: How to balance against Titled Players without the Nerf Bat
1.3.119 My big post re: Reader Q&A, Griselda, Black Cats, Chapter 11, Ilya's Pokemon
1.3.120 Griselda should pick a guild name that really bugs Grimlock

1.3.121 Waver's totally gonna be in the post-SAO arc
1.3.122 Q&A: Beach floor, power armor
1.3.123 Q&A: Ilya's Title, huge beach crabs, how Paladins get strong (meetings)
1.3.124 Q&A: Titles, Beach Episode + Creepy Boss, why kill Sacchi?
1.3.125 Drachasor and Leidolf: should Shirou teach people how to fight?

1.3.126 Mokofooja: people should use magecraft to repair items.
1.3.127 Ryune: how do you weaponize Projection?
1.3.128 Q&A: Repair magecraft; why even use Projection? Projection vs. Tracing; Gemcraft.
1.3.129 Origins: "Ignorant" to "Aware" spectrum.
1.3.130 loirit: sauce on werewolves.

1.3.131 Origin and characterization.
1.3.132 Leidolf: How do guilds handle secret magic? Also story events: 25th Floor Boss decided.
1.3.133 lask: Kayaba should kill Grimlock ASAP.
1.3.134 Maybe Kuradeel will be the hero of the Sugou arc.
1.3.135 lask: Proposing Floor Boss Kerry.

1.3.136 Soliciting concepts for 11.3, Griselda's first quest
1.3.137 Ravraxis: What will Ilya be doing in the endgame?
1.3.138 loirit: sauce on Avalon's DRM settings.
1.3.139 alguAlpaca: motivation for [Dead Players]
1.3.140 Responding to aA. Going back to Griselda and Friends.

1.3.141 Charon: NPC options, Players questioning Shirou & Ilya's abilities
1.3.142 MasalaQuaker: What ever happened to Sella and Leys anyway?
1.3.143 zerohour: Rin in SAO
1.3.144 Q&A: Rin vs Internet; Servant-stuff in-game
1.3.145 ice2215 and zerohour: moar Rin vs. Internet

1.3.146 8FB and 9F design
1.3.147 MasalaQuaker: 8FB = Orc Leader; 9F = Ice Floor
1.3.148 Leidolf: on Schmitt's debut
1.3.149 Q&A; then 8FB design (Orc King) and refugees on 9th Floor?, 9th Floor as cracked Ice sheets
1.3.150 Synthesizing feedback: 9th Floor design, Ilya's vassals; demihumans

1.3.151 TSB: give Ilya an abandoned castle
1.3.152 NPC minions, abandoned castle quest
1.3.153 Revlid: what about FF-style Blue Magic?
1.3.154 Revlid: musings on the MA's backstory
1.3.155 Q&A: hirelings, MA history, why even keep magecraft secret?

1.3..156 linkyhyrule5: Kirito is a special snowflake because of reaction speed, right?
1.3.157 fast rxn speed doesn't impress me much; also, on Origin determination
1.3.158 Nasuren: why didn't Kayaba just kidnap some priests to use?
1.3.159 Chapter plan addendum: omakes, 11-19

/up to page 81

1.3.160 Revlid: Traits, Feedback on Gorm
1.3.161 Abendroth: dungeon idea: Magus' Workshop
1.3.162 What should anti-cold magic even be?
1.3.163 Vanigo: Anti-Cold: Better Insulation, Heating, Cold Tolerance Trait
1.3.164 Revlid: SAO as a game vs SAO as Kayaba's Experiment
1.3.165 I think the Floating Castle was probably just the start

1.3.166 Design of the Black Cats
1.3.167 How Sugu could meet Taiga
1.3.168 linkhyrule: Should Sacchi be good at archery?
1.3.169 I probably won't be using Tsukihime characters
1.3.170 I'm against Sacchi being good at Archery

1.3.171 Rare Element candidates & their place in the Chapter Plan
1.3.172 Why 137 was special; Superior Composite Numbers
1.3.173 Revlid: On Rosalia's character; roll her into Captain Eyeballs
1.3.174 Some boss concepts
1.3.175 Wavelet: It's too early for more Titled Characters

1.3.176 Amodelsino: Shirou Probably doesn't know Ilya is sick
1.3.177 wakshazi: “Solo a boss” = “Get a Title”
1.3.178 Vanigo: It makes sense Argo is using Fake Circuits more than Real Magusses
1.3.179 Nepherin: In the game, it wasn't really creating a Fake Circuit
1.3.180 Q&A re: Black Cats, my view on Fake Circuits

1.3.181 Ravraxas: What does it mean to be a good magus?
1.3.182 Mage Assocation vs. SAO survivors
1.3.183 Revlid: What would the Mage Associations even be like, anyway?
1.3.184 Wavelet: MA is for Secret-Keeping, and Second Owning spiritual lands
1.3.185 Shirou v Bazette; Statute of Secrecy; Enforcer workload; igloo in 12.3

1.3.186 Sakura Route concept
1.3.187 My position on Conservation of Mystery
1.3.188 Pucak: “Super Elephants” was a prank by food; Mystery
1.3.189 Chapter 13 planning
1.3.190 happery: use 13.1 to show off Black Cat's ether chops

1.3.191 wakshazi: mithril is a thing in the nasuverse
1.3.192 Jorlem: make the 13.3 boss a roc
1.3.193 SlvrCrystalC: terrorbirds
1.3.194 Ancienter animals on higher floors
1.3.195 Wandering Airhead: Theories on what Grimlock thinks Kayaba is doing

1.3.196 linkhyrule: Here's some typos from rereading the story
1.3.197 Hostages; Slime King; Rare Elements; Final Boss
1.3.198 Revlid: Behemoth = “Heavy”
1.3.199 TSB: could you imprison Red Players?
1.3.200 What I want Behemoth to be

1.3.201 Revlid: What are Sorcery Traits?; Rare Element Ideas; SAO side-material characters
1.3.202 Lind vs canon timeline; my response to Revlid re: Rare Elements, Sorcery Traits
1.3.203 Revlid: Maybe use Monji Gatou?
1.3.204 Shadow Zeranion: Backstory of Tohsaka and Edelfelts
1.3.205 I don't want to use Fate/Extra characters

/up to 100




2 Original Post
Recently I said something on the Random Ideas Forum:

daniel_gudman said:
I got to wondering "why would the F/SN crew seriously get involved in SAO anyway", and here's the answer I came up with:
Ilya likes to play video games, and since she's dying anyway, Shirou was more than willing to play that new VR game with her.
As you might also be aware, I've also inflicted my opinions on Chronodekar's thing, Tohsaka Online.

Basically, I have come up with a premise for a Sword Art Online cross with Fate/Stay Night, and I want to run it by you folks.

2.1 Ilya route
While terminally ill, and hanging out in Shirou's house bored while he does school, Ilya gets into the beta test of SAO. When the game comes out, she bugs Shirou into playing with her, and Shirou gives her what she wants in the time remaining. Plus he's interested in the game because it's got "Sword" in the title although he's not 100% willin to admit that to his friends.

Prosaically, this means that UBW route (both) is disqualified because Ilya already came down with a case of the Deads. I'm not a super-big fan of Heaven's Feel, so that's kind of pushing me towards just using post-Fate route.

Plus Fate is the route where Shirou gained the least from Archer so he's got the most space to grow his Tracing in-story without having to push the envelope too much.

Also, if Ilya's remaining life span is ~1 year and the game takes at least 2 years to escape....

2.2 Kayaba actually gets a motive
Because human common sense is that "magic is not real", that "mythological beasts are just fiction", and that "Mana doesn't exist", that means that Alaya contradicts Gaia. It's not modern technology, it's not the vast human population; the reason why Gaia is in opposition with Alaya is because the vast majority of humans believe in a false paradigm. Low "soul weight" is a side effect of humans opposing the idea of Gaia and being continuously ground away by "world correction", not huge numbers. The increased incidence of Counter Force incursions is just the result of human knowledge being out of synch with the planet's nature.

How do you fix this? By dragging 10,000 people into a closed magecraft simulator and pumping out as many magecraft practitioners as you can, specialized in combat, to completely overwhelm the Enforcers when the simulation ends. Kayaba intends to blow the doors off the Masquerade by simply dumping 5,000-odd mages into modern society.

Anyway that's the thrust of Kayaba's speech at the end of Episode 1, when he begins the death game, gives everyone their "real" face, and enables the Magic skill system.

(...Does this mean that Kayaba's goal is something Kiritsugu couldn't even imagine: "saving everyone"? I like that because it punches Shirou in his metaphorical face.)

Whether he's correct about that or not is debatable (and, indeed, feel free to debate it!). The point is, rather then whether he's definitely truly right or not, he's confident enough in his hypothesis to bet 10,000 lives on it, and now Shirou has to deal with that. Not just the threat, but the ambiguity.

2.3 Separately from that,
I'm leaning towards Kayaba learned contract-magecraft in backstory from Zouken just to cut Mike off at the pass and let the Matou family, ie Sakura, be important later on; and do a kinda parallel with Kirito's family situation. The plot-advancing reason for Kayaba to do this would be, to create a soul-magic-based safety switch to allow players to activate their "virtual magic circuits" without accidentally reaching into their soul and activating their "real magic circuits", thereby giving out hints Kayaba doesn't want to give out (yet). Then when they clear the game they can activate their circuits on their own time.

I dunno whether Kayaba's gonna betray and/or murder Big Z or not (probably yeah just to make Kayaba a comparative good guy) but I'm also kind of wondering who you'd root for, between the following two, if Zouken decided to snatch Oberon's IRL body and wear his face.


Anyway,

What do you think?

What would Shirou get up to, especially in the first month when the body count is highest?
(I kinda want to run the "Never once understood" thing by him dramatically driving down the death count by hundreds, but in the process he accumulates a super-horrible reputation as a notorious kill-stealer, running around throwing himself into other peoples' fights).

Would Kayaba still play "Heathcliff" or not?
(I think he'd use it to push "magecraft" rather than run a clearing guild... if he thought people weren't chasing magecraft hard enough).


(Ah, if it's you're thinking about something like squaring the circle of integrating Tron with Sleep Learning Thaumatergy, I'd prefer you hypothesize how it could be done, not say it can't be done, okay Avider?).

Thoughts?
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#2
daniel_gudman said:
Also, if Ilya's remaining life span is ~1 year and the game takes at least 2 years to escape....
Ilya gets her mind uploaded and winds up in ALO?

Also, this sort of reminds me of the legend of the <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholomance' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Scholomance</a>.
 

EagleCeres

Well-Known Member
#3
nick012000 said:
daniel_gudman said:
Also, if Ilya's remaining life span is ~1 year and the game takes at least 2 years to escape....
Ilya gets her mind uploaded and winds up in ALO?
Sounds more like the Alicization/Underworld arcs of SAO.

But that sounds more like an excuse later on for Adult!Ilya (Iri2.0 hawtness!).
 

Elvarein

Well-Known Member
#4
Out of curiousity, would not the mage's association just stomp Kayaba and damn the consequences?
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#5
Elvarein said:
Out of curiousity, would not the mage's association just stomp Kayaba and damn the consequences?
Presumably, by the time they find out about it, he's got an army of thousands of combat-magi of his own to fight him with (or, perhaps more accurately, Shirou and/or Kirito do), none of whom give a fuck about keeping magecraft a secret.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#6
nick012000 said:
Elvarein said:
Out of curiousity, would not the mage's association just stomp Kayaba and damn the consequences?
Presumably, by the time they find out about it, he's got an army of thousands of combat-magi of his own to fight him with (or, perhaps more accurately, Shirou and/or Kirito do), none of whom give a fuck about keeping magecraft a secret.
That does sound like what this Kayaba is planning.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Rin and Sakura are deeply concerned about Shirou and Ilya being trapped in the game. Of course, neither of them are exactly tech-savvy, but if Rin has her Carnival Phantasm-canon Dresden-mage-effect, she could make quite a mess of things.

Any of Shirou's other friends joining the game? Taiga, for example? Ayako?
 

Elvarein

Well-Known Member
#7
Prince Charon said:
nick012000 said:
Elvarein said:
Out of curiousity, would not the mage's association just stomp Kayaba and damn the consequences?
Presumably, by the time they find out about it, he's got an army of thousands of combat-magi of his own to fight him with (or, perhaps more accurately, Shirou and/or Kirito do), none of whom give a fuck about keeping magecraft a secret.
That does sound like what this Kayaba is planning.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Rin and Sakura are deeply concerned about Shirou and Ilya being trapped in the game. Of course, neither of them are exactly tech-savvy, but if Rin has her Carnival Phantasm-canon Dresden-mage-effect, she could make quite a mess of things.

Any of Shirou's other friends joining the game? Taiga, for example? Ayako?
Actually what I was trying to say that given that it seems rather hard to believe that one of the Mage factions or the Church would find out about more about what Kayaba is up to and they would stomp him even it means the death of all the pople in SAO.
 

Archanon

Well-Known Member
#8
Elvarein said:
Prince Charon said:
nick012000 said:
Elvarein said:
Out of curiousity, would not the mage's association just stomp Kayaba and damn the consequences?
Presumably, by the time they find out about it, he's got an army of thousands of combat-magi of his own to fight him with (or, perhaps more accurately, Shirou and/or Kirito do), none of whom give a fuck about keeping magecraft a secret.
That does sound like what this Kayaba is planning.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Rin and Sakura are deeply concerned about Shirou and Ilya being trapped in the game. Of course, neither of them are exactly tech-savvy, but if Rin has her Carnival Phantasm-canon Dresden-mage-effect, she could make quite a mess of things.

Any of Shirou's other friends joining the game? Taiga, for example? Ayako?
Actually what I was trying to say that given that it seems rather hard to believe that one of the Mage factions or the Church would find out about more about what Kayaba is up to and they would stomp him even it means the death of all the pople in SAO.
How would they find out about it? Presumably, the only people who could tell them are a) Kayaba or B) trapped inside a videogame.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#9
Elvarein said:
Prince Charon said:
nick012000 said:
Elvarein said:
Out of curiousity, would not the mage's association just stomp Kayaba and damn the consequences?
Presumably, by the time they find out about it, he's got an army of thousands of combat-magi of his own to fight him with (or, perhaps more accurately, Shirou and/or Kirito do), none of whom give a fuck about keeping magecraft a secret.
That does sound like what this Kayaba is planning.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Rin and Sakura are deeply concerned about Shirou and Ilya being trapped in the game. Of course, neither of them are exactly tech-savvy, but if Rin has her Carnival Phantasm-canon Dresden-mage-effect, she could make quite a mess of things.

Any of Shirou's other friends joining the game? Taiga, for example? Ayako?
Actually what I was trying to say that given that it seems rather hard to believe that one of the Mage factions or the Church would find out about more about what Kayaba is up to and they would stomp him even it means the death of all the pople in SAO.
If they found out, then yes, they certainly would. Given how generally anti-tech and non-tech-savvy they are, you're also correct (though that may not be how you meant it) that it's hard to believe that they'd find out in time.
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
#10
One of these days, I might just write a story about Atlas and portray them as a bunch of geniuses who's completely in tuned with modern technology, and in fact are even further along.


Which explains their friction with the Old Guard, and if there's any faction of the magic world that would be future tech, Atlas would be them.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#11
Avider said:
One of these days, I might just write a story about Atlas and portray them as a bunch of geniuses who's completely in tuned with modern technology, and in fact are even further along.


Which explains their friction with the Old Guard, and if there's any faction of the magic world that would be future tech, Atlas would be them.
Given how little we know about Atlas, I could see them being tech-savvy and noticing this, tech-savvy and missing it, or not all that tech-savvy. I could also see them caring or not caring, or even being all for it (though that's an outlier). We just don't know enough about them.
 

wingthesword

Well-Known Member
#12
Rani from Fate/Extra was from Atlas. She was a homonculus. It seems her master was a philosopher from all the things she said she learned from him. They seem to be good at making stuff. That's the impression I got.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#13
wingthesword said:
Rani from Fate/Extra was from Atlas. She was a homonculus. It seems her master was a philosopher from all the things she said she learned from him. They seem to be good at making stuff. That's the impression I got.
Also, the Dust of Osiris is a version of Sion from an alternate future where she went full vampire before using the Philosopher's Stone to cure herself and become the leader of Atlas before travelling back in time in an attempt to destroy the world, and man, she is exactly as ridiculously powerful as that description implies.
 

biigoh

Well-Known Member
#14
Fuuuwah...

That is an interesting idea.

And yes, Ilya needs more love.
 

chrnno

Well-Known Member
#15
Well you made me curious at least. It is a very interesting premise and Ilya is such an underused character that it is nice seeing an idea revolving around her. That Shirou is also involved just completes it, for some reason I rarely get into stories that don't have the main character as... well, main character.

Aside from that it is a good plan assuming most people do survive. Not only they will be capable of using magecraft and no intent on keeping it hidden but also after they leave pretty much everyone in the world will be watching so if they show anything the news would quickly spread way too beyond any hope of actual control.

Finally it is great seeing someone actually thinking a bit when going for changes(or not so much since technically it is not that different from canon) in the mechanics of the Nasuverse, or of any verse really, since most tend to dumb down everything and remove anything they disagree with.
 

wingthesword

Well-Known Member
#16
chrnno said:
Well you made me curious at least. It is a very interesting premise and Ilya is such an underused character that it is nice seeing an idea revolving around her. That Shirou is also involved just completes it, for some reason I rarely get into stories that don't have the main character as... well, main character.

Aside from that it is a good plan assuming most people do survive. Not only they will be capable of using magecraft and no intent on keeping it hidden but also after they leave pretty much everyone in the world will be watching so if they show anything the news would quickly spread way too beyond any hope of actual control.

Finally it is great seeing someone actually thinking a bit when going for changes(or not so much since technically it is not that different from canon) in the mechanics of the Nasuverse, or of any verse really, since most tend to dumb down everything and remove anything they disagree with.
I thought that's why we wrote fanfiction? Because we loved the series but disagreed with it.
 

chrnno

Well-Known Member
#17
Yes but that is only motivation not what you actually write. Otherwise you end up with all those stories that have the so-called 'Reverse Butterfly Effect' where you have a huge change that has no actual consequences afterwards so ends up being essentially a canon copy.
 

ecs05norway

Well-Known Member
#18
So, any new thought on this topic?

Only just finished watching SAO, here :D
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#19
Alright, so I've got some ideas, and now I'm soliciting feedback on them.

This is mostly copypasta from the Excel spreadsheet where I've been jotting down notes.

Fair warning:
Since I'm noodling ideas here, there are definitely going to be major spoilers for once I get around to writing this.






Mundane Skills only
If it's something that should be called "magic", then it's a magical ability, not a Skill. Any kind of sensory enhancement (Nightvision, Detect/Pursuit) has to be accomplished by magecraft instead; any effect from crystals (eg, healing crystals, teleportation, etc) is negated by crystals being removed from the game, and also require magecraft instead.

Essentially, since Kayaba is trying to force people to use magecraft, naturally he'd be removing all the Skills that accomplish "magical" effects. Healing hit points, and causing and curing status effects are considered magical effects. The only exception is Floor crystals that allow the user to move freely between the conquered floors; but that's just a contrivance to deal with the artificial topology of Aincrad.

Don't Die Even If Killed
Yeah, if you're killed in SAO, you don't actually get your brain fried. I'm not saying this to go lighter and softer. Consider this from the perspective of the Outside, what it looks like from IRL:
If you take the helmet off, if you interfere with the game, they die.
If you leave them alone and keep them safe, they live.

So, what Kayaba is doing is, buying as much time as possible, by making it a situation where the doctors and computer engineers trying to rescue the trapped players, are better off going slowly and carefully... because, while they're trapped, at least the players are safe, right?
Compared to canon, where from the outside, it was a race against the game's internal death rate.
Kayaba's doing what will buy him the most time to train his players to the utmost.
Well, he still tells players that "if you die in the game, you die for real", because practicing magecraft requires that you walk beside death.

I'm thinking that Ilya finds this out after managing to circumvent the enchantments on the NerveGear and get in touch with Rin. Probably she would tell Shirou, so he would stop running around trying to save people, and focus on hanging out with her. Shirou, of course, would be torn between telling people this secret to relive them from suffering over their fallen comrades, and keeping it secret to prevent Kayaba from implementing "dying for real" to maintain the "threat of death". Ultimately, I think Shirou would just resolve to become a Front-Liner and beat the game ASAP, as the optimal solution. But, if you think differently, let me know!

Anyway, I tried to come up with a scenario that would be "more fucked up than canon", to keep this appropriately grimdark, and to recover the narrative weight that "death is serious", and the result was:
After they die, "ex-players" are used to pilot monsters and field bosses. Because their perception and memories are interfered with, they don't realize that's happening though. Well, as monsters, they still continue to use, develop, and practice magecraft. As a bonus from Kayaba's perspective, he's not wasting any of his precious specimens, the trapped players.

The first time this was implemented was on the 9th Floor or so; the "dead" players were used as Ghouls, while the Floor Boss was a Dead Apostle.

No Safe Zones
After the fifth floor or so, there are no longer any safe zones.

My reasoning: Kayaba wants to force the players to create functional parallels to the "Safe Zones" by the development and use of Bounded Fields.

Well, since there aren't any Safe Zones, naturally there are no cities either... so to deal with that, infrastructure crafting mechanics were introduced.

Once a city is built, the game AI will generate NPCs to fill it and populate the non-player portions of game economy. Since there was a "Wizard of Oz" expy Quest in canon, the game hinting that might involve a "Field of Dreams" expy Quest ("If you build it, they will come")?

At any rate, this "building cities" thing requires a new set of crafting Skills.

NEW SKILLS / Description
FORESTRY
The ability to harvest trees into logs. Higher ranks can harvest more difficult trees. Efficiency of harvesting is also a function of skill rank. Unlocked from Axe skill.

SAWING
Turning raw logs into lumber. Skill rank caps the difficulty of logs that can be affected. The efficiency rate of logs into lumber is a function of skill rank. Buildings can be harvested and reused at a penalty. Unlocked from Axe skill.

MINING
Extracting resources from the ground. Naturally occurring ores and minerals only, such as iron and granite, that are appropriate for building. Taking this skill provides you with a free shovel.

SMELTING
Refining raw ore into usable metals for any kind of smithing. Creating or handling supernatural ores require magical skills as well.

BLACKSMITHING
Creating non-equippable metal goods such as nails and pipes. Higher skill ranks allow more complex results, like hinges or wrought ironwork. Unlocked from Hammer skill. There are synergies with the weaponsmithing skills.

Practically, this implies the development of so-called "Mid-line Guilds" that support the Front Liners by building the cities and bases behind them. Enchanting them with protective Bounded Fields and establishing Workshops on commission are part of that.

The best and most famous of these guilds is the <<DWORFS>> (title all caps), although they have a problematic reputation. Their guild leader (Who???) infamously used an enchanted pole to <<Fish>> in an active volcano, although he couldn't explain why he thought it would be a good idea at any point. Well, the result was, that field boss fight was awful.

Magic Rules
Basically, this is Kayaba describing the Laws of the World from the Nasuverse to the players trapped in Aincrad.

The following is from the revised players' handbook:
(Notes about my logic in applying it is in parenthetical italics):
Ah, also, since this is supposed to be academically accurate to the Nasuverse, I'm willing to listen to relatively savage criticism from the Type Lunatics for this bit.


MAGIC CIRCUITS
Every Character has a specific number of magical circuits that have been fixed since birth. The number and capacity of your circuits determines how much Prana they can hold. Think of it as your MP metric. Modifying Magic Circuits is comparable to transplant surgery.

Learning to open and use your magic circuits is an important Quest. There are several Quests that provide this, so find the one best suited to you.

PRANA
Prana is the fuel burned by magi to accomplish their magical works. Composed of the lesser source generated within living creatures, called "Od", and the greater source that saturates the atmosphere, called "Mana." Condensing Mana out of the air and adding it to the Od in your circuits is an important Spell.

ELEMENTS
Every Character has "alignments" or "elements". A classic of video games! Multiple elements are possible. Determined at birth. Adding or changing elements is possible, but the process is traumatic.

There are five elements, but either of the Western and Chinese systems could apply to you.
Western Elements: Fire, Earth, Air, Water, Ether
Chinese Elements: Fire, Earth, Water, Wood, Metal

There are several NPCs that will identify your elements for you as a Quest Reward.

Some players may possess Rare Elements that are unique to them. In that case, they would require a unique Quest, generated by the system, to have their elements identified.
(In the case of identifying Rare Elements, the programs of the game aren't complex enough to do it, so Kayaba would "cheat" by doing blood tests or something IRL and then feeding that data to the system; the "unique Quest" is a buffer to give him the time to do that.)

SORCERY TRAITS
Special abilities that have been added to the bloodline of a magi. Comparable to a specialized, inheritable Rare Element.

MAGIC CREST
A system of carving your Spells into your circuits as an "automatic effect", and then transplanting those circuits into your children. The most valuable inheritance of a magus. For a magus, improving it is a duty to their ancestors and descendents.

(Entries for completeness, but from Kayaba's perspective, if either "Sorcery Traits" or a "Magic Crest" applies to you, then you don't need the handbook in the first place, and by default you're probably his enemy anyway).

MAGECRAFT SYSTEM
The style and approach you use to accomplishing your mysteries. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, but the most important is to choose the one that fits you best: compatibility between you and the system is the strongest factor in determining effectiveness.

Known systems: Formalcraft, Runes, Invocation, Evocation, Alchemy, Numerology

There are many NPCs who will provide induction into their system as a Quest Reward.
(I honestly don't know how much support Kayaba could provide here... for something like Formalcraft he might have a lot of academic knowledge, but for less common styles I'm not sure. Well, he's a genius and this is his life's work, so I guess it would be hard to be too ambitious.)

SPELLS
These are the unique mysteries you can perform to accomplish supernatural effects. They are listed separately from Skills in your "Spellbook"; there is no need to equip them, as they are always available.

The basic method is to hypnotize yourself into believing what you imagine is possible, and then pouring Prana into the image to materialize it. The self-hypnosis is often assisted by an Aria, a spoken phrase that you use to convince yourself. Although standard Aria exist, modifying them to match yourself will always be more effective.

There are many NPCs who will teach basic spells as a Quest Reward.

(Remember, Kayaba's goal isn't "balanced gameplay", but "teaching magic." So rather than trying to do something like maintain balance with the Sword Arts, he wants to encourage people to dive into magic).

(Especially... if anyone has good ideas for what those "basic spells" that get offered as Quest Rewards would be, that would help me. The Reinforcement/Alteration/Projection ladder for physical magecraft is obvious, but I would like more than just that.)

ORIGIN
Your mystical purpose that has existed within you since birth. Rather than "fate" or "destiny", it's more like "outlook" or "perspective". Actions in agreement with your Origin are easier for you. Magecraft is not exempt! Fully comprehending, understanding, and accepting your Origin are called "Awakening" to it. Someone that is Awake can perform supernatural effects simply by acting towards their Origin.

Your Origin can be determined for you by various NPCs as a Quest Reward, but Awakening to it is something you'd have to do for yourself.
(Kayaba couldn't figure out a way to program the game to do more than simply identify origins using analytic methods, and it wasn't central enough to his goals for him to invest much effort in trying.)

So What Magic Parameters Did Daniel Give the SAO Kids Anyway

Asuna
Circuit Count: 29
Elements: Wind, Fire, Earth
Magecraft Style: Physical Evocation
Known Spells:
Using Fire to heat up and contain a rubbing wind, an electric charge is created; then the current flow is controlled with Earth. Early on it's essentially a capacitor that prepares electricity for releasing Lighting effect. More than anything, I'm just being literal-minded about her nickname.
Other Notes:
Since she's a serious and studious person, she's good at orthodox physical effects, but ultimately her imagination is limited.

Kirito
Circuit count: 20
Elements: Ether
Magecraft Style: Numerology
Known Spells:
??? I haven't really decided. Well, illusions maybe... contrast with Asuna.
Other Notes:
Circuit Switch image is a transistor changing voltage. Asuna calls him a nerd.
His nature and alignments make him into someone Kayaba sees as an heir: a fellow Ether-based Numerology user.

Klein
Circuit Count: ???
Elements: ??? (Probably Air)
Magecraft Style: ???
Known Spells:
???
Other Notes:
I don't know that his IRL job was ever discussed, but since he kinda-sorta fills the same slightly-older-mentor role for Kirito that Shirou received from Taiga, let's make him a teacher too! He'll teach math.
Running with that: he's Kirito's homeroom teacher in the High-School-For-SAO-vets that the cast got sent to. Well, that's beyond the scope of the SAO arc, so I don't want to think about that too much yet.
Running further: He starts dating Taiga. (That might be too much.)

Diabel
Circuit Count: 24
Elements: Water, Fire
Magecraft Style: Runes (Self-proclaimed "Rune Knight")
Known Spells:
Uses "Negative Flow" to suck heat out of things; combined with his water element, that allows him to call himself an Ice user.
Other Notes:
Good at External Flow. Bad at Internal Flow.

Because Illfang the Kobold Lord was replaced with a slime-type monster (Kayaba wanted to force the players to use magic from the start, so the first floor boss was strong against physical attacks but weak against magic), he fought conservatively, survived, and ended up forming a guild with Kaibou. Because they got called the "Red and Blue Demons" just because of their hair colors, and because Diabel was sensitive to Kaibou's insecurities, the Guild was named, <<Two Flags>>; the image was extended to all the guildmembers partnering up with someone who contrasted and complimented them. Well, because the Buddy System accidentally got built into the guild image, their margin of safety was naturally high, which Diabel encouraged as a lucky accident once he noticed. The end result was that <<Two Flags>> is the clearing guild with the best reputation.

Kaibou
Circuit Count: 30
Elements: Fire, Metal
Magecraft Style: Invocation
Known Spells:
Excellent at direct Physical Enhancement.
Other Notes:
Terrible at externalizing magic, so he ended up focusing on what he could do, which is buffing himself.

Argo
Circuit Count: 0
Elements: N/A
Magecraft Style: Formalcraft (Divination)
Origin: "Knowing" or "Learning"
Known Spells:
??? Haven't picked anything out yet.
Other Notes:
Considering her Origin, she would be considered a valuable tool (or even apprentice) for reaching the Root by many researchers in the Association.

Agil
Circuit Count: 3
Elements: Average One
Magecraft Style: Formalcraft (Bounded Field specialist)
Known Spells:
Many bounded field effects.
Other Notes:
Considering his low capacity but high flexibility, as well as his personal tendencies, someone that ended up a Mid-Liner who sets up Bounded Fields for others... for a reasonable fee.

Silica
Circuit Count: 25
Elements: Beast (Rare; compared to Chinese "Wood")
Magecraft Style: Evocation / Summoning
Known Spells:
Familiar Creation
Other Notes:
Received help from Ilya...? Not sure.
Maybe, someone who met Shirou while they were both doing the "Rare Element Identification Quest".

Lisbeth
Circuit Count: 22
Elements: Fire, Metal
Magecraft Style: Alchemy
Known Spells:
Enchantment
Other Notes:
Also someone who gets hints from Ilya? Well, no matter what, aggressively pursues Shirou as a business partner. At any rate, Shirou is someone that supports her love of Kirito.
...Actually, according to "giving a man a fish, versus teaching a man to fish" logic, isn't providing players with the strongest, best weapons possible the most efficient way for Shirou to save others? Then it becomes an ego struggle inside him over whether he wants the satisfaction of saving others, versus giving them the tools to save themselves.

Sachi
Circuit Count: 39
Elements: Ether
Magecraft Style: Invocation, Numerology (from Kirito)
Origin: "Dying"
Known Spells:
???
Other Notes:
Naturally unfortunate: someone who is traumatized by their own Origin.
Well, after her guild gets mostly killed off, her ability to force "Death" on others makes her terrifying as a Monster character. Kayaba said "sure why not", ran with it, and an infamous recurring Field Boss was born.
Well, that link wasn't discovered until after the game was cleared, though.

Grimlock:
Circuit Count: 19 (Natural) + 57 (Crest)
Elements: ??? Haven't decided. At least Ether, probably.
Magecraft Style:
Known Spells:
Memory Manipulation, Brainwashing
Other Notes:
His nature as a magus was a secret even from his wife. While she grew confident and courageous in SAO, she also decided that if Kayaba was right about magic being real, she would endorse his goal of disclosing magecraft to the world: so, Grimlock killed her.
Since then, determined to do anything it takes to stop Kayaba. His chosen method is killing / sacrificing everyone trapped in the game. This extremeness might be motivated by guilt over his wife?
The puppetmaster who controls Laughing Coffin from the shadows.
(All of that from just one thought: "If I can make Kayaba cool, I can make Grimlock cool too.")


...

You might notice I've used "giving the SAO characters Nasuverse abilities" to build some plot threads, so I'm interested to recruit comments on that, too, because I haven't really woven those threads into a coherent story.
 

BloodRevan

Well-Known Member
#20
An interesting idea, but I don't think there's anything anyone can do that can make Grimlock cool. And I hope he gets eaten by a Grue.

I like your replacement for death.

Poor Sachi though, that's pretty high up there on the Suckiest-Origin-to-Realize list.

And I agree with the earlier sentiment, Illya does need more love.

A question for the Type Lunatics: Wouldn't Kabaya's mind uploading render the Heaven's Feel into magecraft?
Hmm.
Me@Now said:
"Emiya Shirou, surviver of the Great Fire of Fuyuki City, adopted son of Emiya Kiritsugu, the Magus Killer, Master of Saber and victor of the Fifth Holy Grail War! Illyasviel von Einzbern, biological daughter of Emiya Kiritsugu, Master of Berserker and Lesser Grail for the Fifth Holy Grail Warà, truly, I am in the presence of greatness.

I admit, Einzbern-san, that while I included the Wishcraft sorcery trait, I did not expect for anyone to ever be able to use it." Kayaba pressed a key, and a system notice appeared to Illya and Shirou. 'Magic Circuits are now active. Magecraft skills now available to Saber Illya/the White Knight of Justice'. Additionally, Illya received a second notification: 'Saber Illya: Wishcraft sorcery trait detected and now available for use. Be warned, Wishcraft uses several times the prana of spells but allows for a greater range of effects.'

"A rare element for Emiya-san, I see. Very well, tell me Emiya-san, are you aware of your element? Otherwise I'll need to do some tests."

Shirou shot a look at Illya, that wasn't information one should really volunteer, but neither of them would have been able to stop him running his tests. Illya bite her lip and made a decision, "His Element is swordà as is his Origin, though he's not Awakened to it." Yet. Hopefully with the information volunteered he wouldn't decide to run any 'tests'.

"A possible Incarnationà This could explain how you used Gradation Air to recreate the Golden Sword of Owed Victory. Projection nearly on the level of Denial of Nothingness, near perfect replication of a Noble Phantasm, a Faker shouldn't be able to do thatà and T?saka Rin's Archer displayed similiar abilities, and seemed aware you would be able to do such thingsà I seeà greatness indeed.

But you needn't worry about the Clocktower learning those facts, I had their observers dealt with. Hmmà Oh dear, are you aware, Einzbern-san, that your body is unlikely to last more than a year?"

"I am, it's why we're in here."

"I see, very well." Another button press by Kayaba's featureless avatar and Illya noticed a little blinking icon in the left corner of her vision. It looked like a brain and the word 'Uploading' was under it. Another notice came up: 'Mindstate Save System activated for Saber Illya. Save Complete. Mindstate Save Successful.'

"What!?" Illya turned her attention to completely back to Kayaba. "Is thisà"

"It is exactly what you think it is, I expect. If one is to die in my world, I'd prefer it be on their feet in battle. Not on their back because their body gave out.? If you manage to survive and return to the real world, there will be a new body waiting for you. I fear, however, it will not be up to Einzbern standards."

<s>'The old man's gonna have a heart attack when he learns of this.' Illya began to snicker happily.

"Illya, what'd he do, what's so funny?"

"The Heaven's Feel is no longer Sorcery, He's turned it into magecraft. I wish I could be the one to tell old man-Acht, it'll kill him."</s>
Minor edits to the snippet.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#21
daniel_gudman said:
ELEMENTS
Every Character has "alignments" or "elements". A classic of video games! Multiple elements are possible. Determined at birth. Adding or changing elements is possible, but the process is traumatic.

There are five elements, but either of the Western and Chinese systems could apply to you.
Western Elements: Fire, Earth, Air, Water, Ether
Chinese Elements: Fire, Earth, Water, Wood, Metal

There are several NPCs that will identify your elements for you as a Quest Reward.

Some players may possess Rare Elements that are unique to them. In that case, they would require a unique Quest, generated by the system, to have their elements identified.
(In the case of identifying Rare Elements, the programs of the game aren't complex enough to do it, so Kayaba would "cheat" by doing blood tests or something IRL and then feeding that data to the system; the "unique Quest" is a buffer to give him the time to do that.)
There's also the Sixth Imaginary Element, Demon, which is notable for responding to the thoughts and desires of humans (and thus creating demons). Mention of sub-elements like Holy and Lightning might also be advisable.


SORCERY TRAITS
Special abilities that have been added to the bloodline of a magi. Comparable to a specialized, inheritable Rare Element.

MAGIC CREST
A system of carving your Spells into your circuits as an "automatic effect", and then transplanting those circuits into your children. The most valuable inheritance of a magus. For a magus, improving it is a duty to their ancestors and descendents.

(Entries for completeness, but from Kayaba's perspective, if either "Sorcery Traits" or a "Magic Crest" applies to you, then you don't need the handbook in the first place, and by default you're probably his enemy anyway).
I'll point out that there's also Psychic Powers, which are basically spells that people are able to perform "naturally", without any proper magecraft training; Shirou's UBW and Shiki's Mystic Eyes border on this, and there's a whole bunch of psychics with various abilities in Kara no Kyoukai.

MAGECRAFT SYSTEM
The style and approach you use to accomplishing your mysteries. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, but the most important is to choose the one that fits you best: compatibility between you and the system is the strongest factor in determining effectiveness.

Known systems: Formalcraft, Runes, Invocation, Evocation, Alchemy, Numerology

There are many NPCs who will provide induction into their system as a Quest Reward.
(I honestly don't know how much support Kayaba could provide here... for something like Formalcraft he might have a lot of academic knowledge, but for less common styles I'm not sure. Well, he's a genius and this is his life's work, so I guess it would be hard to be too ambitious.)
Formalcraft and Runes, at least, should be easily available; you can literally download that shit off the Internet after spending a few minutes on Google IRL. Also, "evocation" and "invocation" refer to the manifestation of spirits, rather than elemental magecraft, which is its own thing; the former causes them to manifest externally to the user, while the latter channels them internally; basically, the difference is between summoning Saber as a Servant, and using Class Card Include to become Saber.

Additionally, another important field of magecraft that you didn't mention was familiar creation.

SPELLS
These are the unique mysteries you can perform to accomplish supernatural effects. They are listed separately from Skills in your "Spellbook"; there is no need to equip them, as they are always available.

The basic method is to hypnotize yourself into believing what you imagine is possible, and then pouring Prana into the image to materialize it. The self-hypnosis is often assisted by an Aria, a spoken phrase that you use to convince yourself. Although standard Aria exist, modifying them to match yourself will always be more effective.

There are many NPCs who will teach basic spells as a Quest Reward.

(Remember, Kayaba's goal isn't "balanced gameplay", but "teaching magic." So rather than trying to do something like maintain balance with the Sword Arts, he wants to encourage people to dive into magic).

(Especially... if anyone has good ideas for what those "basic spells" that get offered as Quest Rewards would be, that would help me. The Reinforcement/Alteration/Projection ladder for physical magecraft is obvious, but I would like more than just that.)
Basic spell ideas: basic counterspell by running prana through your circuits. Shooting bolts of energy by blasting energy through your circuits, like Aozaki Aoko does. Minor curse by deliberately failing at reinforcement, weakening the target. Basic elemental manipulation. Calling up and/or creating minor spirits, like Sakura's miniature shadow giants. The <a href='http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/meanings.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>meanings</a> of the Runes, along with a few traditional rune charms (there's a bunch on that site).

...Actually, according to "giving a man a fish, versus teaching a man to fish" logic, isn't providing players with the strongest, best weapons possible the most efficient way for Shirou to save others? Then it becomes an ego struggle inside him over whether he wants the satisfaction of saving others, versus giving them the tools to save themselves.
Shirou has very little ego! I don't think that he'd really hesitate to do the latter, if he really thought it'd help more than his assistance on the front lines. Hell, he may very well decide to do both.

You might notice I've used "giving the SAO characters Nasuverse abilities" to build some plot threads, so I'm interested to recruit comments on that, too, because I haven't really woven those threads into a coherent story.
Well, for one thing, the monster-players might well decide to build themselves their own fortified bases full of Bounded Fields, and launch counter-attacks on the bases of the Clearing Parties, making things a lot more personal.

BloodRevan said:
A question for the Type Lunatics: Wouldn't Kabaya's mind uploading render the Heaven's Feel into magecraft?
No, the Heaven's Feel is the materialization of the soul. Uploading the mind wouldn't accomplish that; at best, you'd wind up with a better version of what Matou Zouken did, using computers instead of worms.
 

BloodRevan

Well-Known Member
#22
nick012000 said:
No, the Heaven's Feel is the materialization of the soul. Uploading the mind wouldn't accomplish that; at best, you'd wind up with a better version of what Matou Zouken did, using computers instead of worms.
Oh.

I was under the impression that Heaven's Feel was required to give a soul a new anchor. (Altered from brain/hardware to digital file/software.)

I'd been wondering how worm guy managed.
 

chrnno

Well-Known Member
#23
BloodRevan said:
Oh.

I was under the impression that Heaven's Feel was required to give a soul a new anchor. (Altered from brain/hardware to digital file/software.)

I'd been wondering how worm guy managed.
No, Heaven's Feel is doing away with the need for a body at all. The Soul becomes an higher existence capable of interacting with the world as a mental body, it also obtains an unlimited source of magical energy due to becoming something akin to a perpetual motion machine. From there the person can use anything as a remote control puppet and it would quickly grow to become impossible to differentiate from the original body, the body mirrors the soul taken to the absolute conclusion.
 

Solaris

Well-Known Member
#24
daniel_gudman said:
Don't Die Even If Killed
Yeah, if you're killed in SAO, you don't actually get your brain fried. I'm not saying this to go lighter and softer. Consider this from the perspective of the Outside, what it looks like from IRL:
If you take the helmet off, if you interfere with the game, they die.
If you leave them alone and keep them safe, they live.

So, what Kayaba is doing is, buying as much time as possible, by making it a situation where the doctors and computer engineers trying to rescue the trapped players, are better off going slowly and carefully... because, while they're trapped, at least the players are safe, right?
Compared to canon, where from the outside, it was a race against the game's internal death rate.
Kayaba's doing what will buy him the most time to train his players to the utmost.
Well, he still tells players that "if you die in the game, you die for real", because practicing magecraft requires that you walk beside death.

I'm thinking that Ilya finds this out after managing to circumvent the enchantments on the NerveGear and get in touch with Rin. Probably she would tell Shirou, so he would stop running around trying to save people, and focus on hanging out with her. Shirou, of course, would be torn between telling people this secret to relive them from suffering over their fallen comrades, and keeping it secret to prevent Kayaba from implementing "dying for real" to maintain the "threat of death". Ultimately, I think Shirou would just resolve to become a Front-Liner and beat the game ASAP, as the optimal solution. But, if you think differently, let me know!
Hmm, I don't think Illya should be able to contact Rin. Even if she could bypass some enchantments. I'm not really sure how they'd communicate. Though I do understand wanting Shirou to spend more time with Illya rather than running around being stupid.

Yeesh. Origin realization is such a dangerous risk.
Also, Sachi becomes Yuyuko?!
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#25
Solaris said:
Hmm, I don't think Illya should be able to contact Rin. Even if she could bypass some enchantments. I'm not really sure how they'd communicate. Though I do understand wanting Shirou to spend more time with Illya rather than running around being stupid.
I think that conversation is important though. Because, if Shirou doesn't learn about it, then he'll become an unstopping machine that either 1) Clears the game at top speed without any safety margin or 2) Goes wherever the highest death rate is (probably second-rate players trying to reach front lines).

Well, either way, he just becomes too serious, or rather, his behavior becomes the center of the story, and honestly, I want the plot to come more from Kayaba than Shirou (at least at this point...).

If it's "how", then I'm pretty sure Ms. Flow-and-Transference and Little Miss Soul Dolls can figure something out... even if they have to get Miss (SQRT(-1) * n) involved.

I'm definately confident that the Einzbern and Matou heirs could figure out a way to communicate spiritually, even if there's a grand barrier. The synergy is too high. Well, they might just tell Shirou that it was Ilya and Rin though?

Actually I kind of like that. Probably I'll do that.

Ah, on another note, I'd also like to solicit input for a title.
 
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