Gundam Wing Rewrite

#1
So Frozen Teardrop has finally ended and it was so bad that it's inspired me try and rewrite Gundam Wing from the ground up. However, I'm having some difficulty coming up with ideas on how to make cretin characters relevant to the overall plot and not just have them as tag along characters.




For example; I would love to make Middie Une (the girl from Trowa's Episode Zero chapter) and Sylvia Noventa important but I'm can't seem to come up with unique narratives to develop their characters. Here is what I have so far.
-Middie Une is still an Alliance spy to help pay for her sick father and brothers. She is Lady Une's nice from her fathers side and of course, Trowa's love interest.
-Sylvia Noventa helps Relena, in some capacity (and they are possibility good friends I don't know). She is also Quatre's love interest.



Along with those problems, I also wanted to have some gritty tactical ground battles that involve team work from the five pilots; in the vain of 08th MS Team. However, I'm not sure how I'm going to pull that off (or where in the story to even place such scenes) considering how so much of GW's plot revolves around their Gundams being OP.

Anyway, that's a ruff outline of what I've though up so far.
 

The Ero-Sennin

The Eyes of Heaven
Staff member
#2
08th MS Team is a horrible formula to emulate for MS battles because in those battles the Federation treated their MS basically like glorified tanks and did so little with them that it was easy for guys like Norris Packard to run rings around them. It is the literal dawn of MS Combat, they're slow, and ungainly machines.

The 5 Gundams should feel OP and unstoppable. They're an Outside Context Problem for the Earth Sphere/OZ, something that they have to completely rewrite their doctrine in order to have a chance against. I would recommend taking the Gundam 00 approach, and having the ESUN/OZ trial and error their way towards fighting the Gundams, evolving their tactics to fighting them while the Gundam Pilots themselves do what they can to stay a step ahead of them. Whether it be by changing up how they fight or holding back on the capabilities of their MS until such a time where they need to reveal those capabilities.
 
#4
The Ero-Sennin said:
08th MS Team is a horrible formula to emulate for MS battles because in those battles the Federation treated their MS basically like glorified tanks and did so little with them that it was easy for guys like Norris Packard to run rings around them. It is the literal dawn of MS Combat, they're slow, and ungainly machines.
I never thought about it that way. It's been a while since I've seen 08th MS Team but when I recall some of it, I remember cretin scenes like the one where one MS stabs another right into the cockpit and (either blood or oil) comes spewing out. And another scene where the team gets ambushed on a bridge and the nerdy kid dangles himself off the bridge with a rope so he can relay the enemy's position to Shiro.

I guess what I want is to add some grit to the fighting. In 08th, I could feel how messy, miserable, and dirty the fighting was and Gundam Wing lacks that kind of atmosphere. 

I really hope I conveyed that in an understandable way.

The Ero-Sennin said:
having the ESUN/OZ trial and error their way towards fighting the Gundams, evolving their tactics to fighting them while the Gundam Pilots themselves do what they can to stay a step ahead of them.
Wasn't that what the Mercurius and Vayeate were for? They didn't remain a threat for very long.

H-Man said:
Did you bother looking at Glory of Losers?
Yeah, it's really hit or miss as a manga. It goes into more depth concerning some events (like Wufei's wife and whatnot) but then it also adds characters and events from Frozen Teardrop and changes important plot points from the original for no real reason (like how it's Heero's fault that Relena's father died instead of Lady Une)
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#5
The biggest advantage the Gundams had in Wing was the Gundanium Alloy. IIRC, Gundams Sandrock doesn't have the offensive "punch" necessary to actually damage armour that tough. Only beam cannons/gatlings and sabres do.

OZ does eventually construct their own Mobile Suits with that kind of armour, but not until after they return to space. You could simply introduce it earlier. Even just riot-style shields for the Leos would probably make things more difficult for the Gundam pilots.

Also, you could consider more use of electronic countermeasures. Interfering with the "sensors" of the Gundams would help reintroduce the "fog of war," which I feel could help add grit.
 

KageX

Well-Known Member
#6
nixofcyzerra said:
The biggest advantage the Gundams had in Wing was the Gundanium Alloy. IIRC, Gundams Sandrock doesn't have the offensive "punch" necessary to actually damage armour that tough. Only beam cannons/gatlings and sabres do.

OZ does eventually construct their own Mobile Suits with that kind of armour, but not until after they return to space. You could simply introduce it earlier. Even just riot-style shields for the Leos would probably make things more difficult for the Gundam pilots.

Also, you could consider more use of electronic countermeasures. Interfering with the "sensors" of the Gundams would help reintroduce the "fog of war," which I feel could help add grit.
The fact is that Gundanium Alloy does that to an extent, it is literally undetectable by radar.

So trying out alternatives to that in order to detect the Gundams early is likely something that OZ and the Earth Sphere would be pursuing enthusiastically.

That seems like a good "starting point" for Anti Gundam Measures.

As for Gundanium itself the method of making it is known only to a few. It is alluded to that OZ intended it be a secret weapon.

The Five Scientists took the formula with them, so OZ trying to keep their involvement in Gundanium's creation and how they let it's creators seemingly "defect" to the Colony Lberation Movement would be an interesting bit of background politics.

Even if it can't be proven that the Scientists who made the Tallgeese made the Gundams the fact that it seems they were made using "Secret" OZ Technology that was meant to be classified would make things difficult for OZ early on, especially since the rest of the Military seems to have a rivalry with them.
 
#7
KageX said:
As for Gundanium itself the method of making it is known only to a few. It is alluded to that OZ intended it be a secret weapon.

The Five Scientists took the formula with them, so OZ trying to keep their involvement in Gundanium's creation and how they let it's creators seemingly "defect" to the Colony Lberation Movement would be an interesting bit of background politics.
Was this in FT? I've read the FT translations off and on since it came out in 2010 so there is some that I've already forgotten about. But to the point, I thought the Gundam tech and the scientists were from the Barton foundation.

Which reminds me, Oz was apparently the organization that ordered the hit on the original Heero Yuy so how was Dakum Barton okay with his only daughter getting knocked up by one of their top officers?
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#8
Well, if you follow FT, she didn't get knocked up. Mariemaia is supposedly a clone of Leia Barton, as revealed in Frozen Teardrop's finale. Because everyone in Gundam Wing has to be a clone or some bullshit.

FT did its very best to ruin Gundam Wing.
 
#9
Rising Dragon said:
Well, if you follow FT, she didn't get knocked up.  Mariemaia is supposedly a clone of Leia Barton, as revealed in Frozen Teardrop's finale.  Because everyone in Gundam Wing has to be a clone or some bullshit.

FT did its very best to ruin Gundam Wing.
Haven't gotten around to reading the last bit. I just know that it ended and that one of the Heero's proposed to Relena. I think it was Alpha. 

I was thinking about reading it next week but don't know if its worth finishing to the end.
 

da_fox2279

California Crackpot
#11
You know, Wing was the first Gundam series I was exposed to, and helped kick off my interest in Gundam and other Giant Robot shows. But reading the replies in this thread, regarding the various manga spin-offs, makes me glad I stopped reading GW manga after the origin one (Episode Zero, I think?).
 
#12
da_fox2279 said:
You know, Wing was the first Gundam series I was exposed to, and helped kick off my interest in Gundam and other Giant Robot shows. But reading the replies in this thread, regarding the various manga spin-offs, makes me glad I stopped reading GW manga after the origin one (Episode Zero, I think?).
It's only Frozen Teardrop that ruins everything and it's not a manga, it's a poorly written Light Novel.

Epizode Zero is canon to the show so it's important. Blind Target has nice artwork and is a pretty good story overall that has lots of 1xR. The manga versions of GW and EW are at least worth the read since they're slightly different from the show but not enough to break major continuity. Ground Zero I found was pretty boring except for the In Rose chapter since I'm a sucker for HxR stuff.

There is a new Gundam Wing manga called "Glory of the Losers" which is basically a rewrite of Wing but with added crap from FT. The art is nice and sometimes it elaborates on cretin aspects of the original story but I can't ignore all the FT addons.

BTW does anyone have any ideas what I should do with Middie Une and Sylvia Noventa?
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#13
About Middie, go with that theory that she is Lady Une, and thus things get really awkward when Trowa infiltrates OZ as a colonist soldier. About Sylvia, have her attend Relena's school in the Sanc Kingdom, so she can provide a counterweight to Dorothy and Relena (have her advocate for more moderate policy regarding pacifism- something like you still need weapons to defend yourself is fine), make things awkward for Heero as he tries to get out of his comfort zone to keep an eye on her and becomes her friend, and I think having her join group that was protecting Sanc might work too.
 

Lord Raa

Exporter of Juice Tins
#14
Worst rewrite of Gundam Wing I ever saw was one where Heero Yuy was actually a cyborg and the robot part was HK-47.












Actually, that might be a lie. I think the worst one I saw was where they put everyone in the same school and took away the Gundam action.
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#15
All I can say, Lady, is that as someone who's in the middle of developing his own completely original Gundam story (timeline and everything), you have your work cut out for you, even with having all of the character and MS and organization names figured out ahead of time.
 
#16
I have more questions about GW now that I've had some time to think about it but I'm going to answer some stuff first

Azure said:
About Middie, go with that theory that she is Lady Une
:hmm: Uhh not sure about this one.

Azure said:
About Sylvia, have her attend Relena's school in the Sanc Kingdom, so she can provide a counterweight to Dorothy and Relena (have her advocate for more moderate policy regarding pacifism- something like you still need weapons to defend yourself is fine)
This is a great idea. I was thinking that would be the best place for her to meet Heero again and get to know Quatre too but you fleshed out the idea for me. Thank you.

Azure said:
make things awkward for Heero as he tries to get out of his comfort zone to keep an eye on her and becomes her friend
Don't know about them being friends (or maybe just not close friends or anything). I wouldn't want my readers to think I'm trying to set up a love triangle.

Now for the questions.

If Dakem hated Oz for killing the original Heero Yuy then why was he ok that one of their top officers knocked up his only daughter in Heero's episode Zero story.

Also, Traze went to great lengths to kill every single pacifist on earth, but why? No one had been listening to them for years. I highly doubt they were much of a threat to his takeover. And why did he end up supporting Relena's cause later on in the show? I understand he didn't kill her because of Zech but why help Heero save her later on?
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#17
Like I said before. Sumisawa wrote both Episode Zero and Frozen Teardrop, and likely had all of these figured out ahead of time. Dekim was okay with it because his daughter never got knocked up by one of OZ's top officers--Mariemaia is revealed to be a clone of his daughter, created by Dekim to further his own agenda. Presumably, that's why he claimed he made Mariemaia in Endless Waltz, and why he claimed he could make another like her.

And, like I said before, it's a stupid idea, like all of FT is. But from the evidence in all of his works, it fits and doesn't create a plot hole, at least as far as his canon goes.
 
#18
Rising Dragon said:
Like I said before.  Sumisawa wrote both Episode Zero and Frozen Teardrop, and likely had all of these figured out ahead of time.
I figured he had help and input from some of the shows script writers, hence why Episode Zero wasn't complete shit like FT. Also, it's hard to think he had all that figured out when he had to retcon Odin Lows character design to be Heero's father among other things.

Rising Dragon said:
Dekim was okay with it because his daughter never got knocked up by one of OZ's top officers--Mariemaia is revealed to be a clone of his daughter, created by Dekim to further his own agenda.
This seems to be another thing that Sumisawa retconed since Mariemaia looks nothing like her mother at all and she told Relena that it was proven though DNA testing that she was his child.

Rising Dragon said:
Presumably, that's why he claimed he made Mariemaia in Endless Waltz, and why he claimed he could make another like her.
Now that you mention it, I do remember him saying that. I just assumed he would get some random little girl and have her pretend to be Mariemaia.

Rising Dragon said:
And, like I said before, it's a stupid idea, like all of FT is.  But from the evidence in all of his works, it fits and doesn't create a plot hole, at least as far as his canon goes.
Okay lets assume that Mariemaia was the actual child of Treize and Barton's daughter. Should we assume Dekim would do everything the same? And then there's the question of why he need a pawn at all? He had lots of money and resources; couldn't he just build his own army?

Also, I still can't figure out why Treize killed all the pacifists but then supported Relena's ideology later on. All I come up with was that he didn't like where Oz was headed and just gave up on it.
 

H-Man

Random phantom.
#19
The point of Mariemaia is that Treize died a martyr.

As much as Dekim hated him, Treize and his ideals were still respected by many people after his sacrifice; people who would be willing to join a 'second verse, same as first'. Dekim Barton, on the other hand, represented the same 'old blood' that Romefeller and Quinze were part of, and maybe there were rumors that he was involved in Operation Meteor by those who actually knew more details.

He wouldn't get as much immediate success if he didn't use anyone related to Treize, even if she were a clone or something. [And maybe that's the point; he created a clone with Treize's DNA, which is different from a proper child's combined DNA.]
 
#20
Rising Dragon said:
Like I said before.
Oh god, I just realized I already asked one of these questions. :sweat: I sincerely apologies. This is the kind of stupid crap I do at 2:30 in the morning. :wacko: Please forgive me.

H-Man said:
He wouldn't get as much immediate success if he didn't use anyone related to Treize,
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
#21
did they ever explain how Dekim Barton had the guy who killed his son in his hands and basically never even mentioned it or anything in Endless Waltz?
 
#22
seitora said:
did they ever explain how Dekim Barton had the guy who killed his son in his hands and basically never even mentioned it or anything in Endless Waltz?
But No Name never killed his son (I think). I'm pretty sure it was some random worker that had family on Earth and didn't want the original Operation Meteor to happen. I need to re-watche the movie again. I haven't seen it in about 4 years.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
#23
Yeah, you're right. For some reason I was misremembering that scene as thinking Trowa killed Trowa Prime himself.
 
#24
seitora said:
Yeah, you're right. For some reason I was misremembering that scene as thinking Trowa killed Trowa Prime himself.
It was surprising that he never said anything about it though. I'm starting to think the man just didn't give a shit about his own children.
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#25
I'm pretty sure that was it--the guy's pretty damn amoral. That said, Triton didn't kill his son, but it wasn't his son's killer that escaped to Earth. So he had plenty of time to deal with his son's killer if he wanted to.
 
Top