Harry Potter Harry Potter Fanfic Updates

Explicitly no. I just read the conversation in HBP; Ron said that Greyback hadn't been transformed, Lupin said that he didn't think Bill would be a werewolf but that the bites were cursed wounds (and so wouldn't heal fully) and they found out in time that Bill wasn't a werewolf, he was just scarred.
 
Cynical Kyle said:
Master of Squirrel-Fu said:
shioran toushin said:
mainly because the regulation is not: you are dangerous because once in a month you become a freaking danger to anyone nearby so you are mandated to take your pills and go into seclusion for the duration of your spell or else...
but: you are frealing dangerous dark shit, so there are no jobs for you, you third class creature how dare you to be alive.


it's no wonder why most of them are psychos.
or at least that is what fanon makes them be
Yeah pretty much. They have no other real alteration other than one day a month they have to be locked in a room to prevent them from hurting others, hell the potions only there to be a back up and to make it a bit less unpleasent. It's really all the security and compromise needed to help werewolves. They aren't any more dangerous than a normal wizard outside of that time.
Still pointless risk to take in hospitals and school conditions which is also assuming that werewolves in question would be nice guys like Remus instead of being closer to Fenrir like most were in the books. High-stress job like hospital work etc.? One missed potion would be disaster. Same thing would be true in school setting and number of positions. You don't even need actual malice when plain incompetence people love to accuse wizards of would be more than enough to guarantee catastrophes. Would any sensible organization employ virus-carrying psychopaths as long as they remember to take their meds?

There probably are numerous jobs that could be done by decent werewolf without that high consequences of failure, but again it's not likely to be worth the risks for any sensible government or organization. Werewolves are carriers off highly dangerous pathogen and according to books most seem to enjoy infecting innocents, so the fact that wizarding governments won't actively exterminate them on sight is already pretty damn humane.
The only positive werewolf we have in canon is Lupin, true, but the only negatives I remember are Fenrir and his band, and that is judging the whole kind for a few bad apples. There is nothing in the books that claim that werewolves turn into bad people if treated right but for one psychopath and his followers.
Why would high-stress jobs be any worse for a werewolf outside the full moon than it would be for anyone else?
It is not a "virus-carrying sociopath", it is someone that turns into a wolf at a specific, documented and of common knowledge time of the month. He doesn't even need to take meds, although they help, just be kept somewhere safe during that specific time.

I see no risks that would make it not worth. The only person that enjoys infecting people in the books is Fenrir Greyback, and he is already an acknowledged criminal. The way you say it is like the belief that people should kill muslins because of the few of them that are terrorists.
 
Yorae Rasante said:
Cynical Kyle said:
Master of Squirrel-Fu said:
shioran toushin said:
mainly because the regulation is not: you are dangerous because once in a month you become a freaking danger to anyone nearby so you are mandated to take your pills and go into seclusion for the duration of your spell or else...
but: you are frealing dangerous dark shit, so there are no jobs for you, you third class creature how dare you to be alive.


it's no wonder why most of them are psychos.
or at least that is what fanon makes them be
Yeah pretty much. They have no other real alteration other than one day a month they have to be locked in a room to prevent them from hurting others, hell the potions only there to be a back up and to make it a bit less unpleasent. It's really all the security and compromise needed to help werewolves. They aren't any more dangerous than a normal wizard outside of that time.
Still pointless risk to take in hospitals and school conditions which is also assuming that werewolves in question would be nice guys like Remus instead of being closer to Fenrir like most were in the books. High-stress job like hospital work etc.? One missed potion would be disaster. Same thing would be true in school setting and number of positions. You don't even need actual malice when plain incompetence people love to accuse wizards of would be more than enough to guarantee catastrophes. Would any sensible organization employ virus-carrying psychopaths as long as they remember to take their meds?

There probably are numerous jobs that could be done by decent werewolf without that high consequences of failure, but again it's not likely to be worth the risks for any sensible government or organization. Werewolves are carriers off highly dangerous pathogen and according to books most seem to enjoy infecting innocents, so the fact that wizarding governments won't actively exterminate them on sight is already pretty damn humane.
The only positive werewolf we have in canon is Lupin, true, but the only negatives I remember are Fenrir and his band, and that is judging the whole kind for a few bad apples. There is nothing in the books that claim that werewolves turn into bad people if treated right but for one psychopath and his followers.
Why would high-stress jobs be any worse for a werewolf outside the full moon than it would be for anyone else?
It is not a "virus-carrying sociopath", it is someone that turns into a wolf at a specific, documented and of common knowledge time of the month. He doesn't even need to take meds, although they help, just be kept somewhere safe during that specific time.

I see no risks that would make it not worth. The only person that enjoys infecting people in the books is Fenrir Greyback, and he is already an acknowledged criminal. The way you say it is like the belief that people should kill muslins because of the few of them that are terrorists.
Despite what some people might claim, every muslim doesn't carry infectious diseases that cannot be cured nor do they lose control of themselves every month. You still have yet to prove that majority of werewolves in HP would be good guys or that they totally wouldn't make human errors such as forget taking their medicine when all the evidence is pointing to other direction. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any overt bigotry in HP canon towards vampires or veelas. It's only races that arguably deserve it that get the shitty end of the stick such as werewolves, centaurs & giants.

We have one example of incompetent but good werewolf weighted against one completely sociopathic and dozens of less crazy but still evil followers. I recall centaurs exiling the human-friendly one that ended up teaching divination, rest were quite happy with kill the trespassers-policy, kidnapping and impliedly rape. Giants were all too willing to follow Voldemort for shit and giggles, at least I don't remember there being real reason stated in DH. Judging from only example of pure giant we have, they likely aren't too smart and followed best orator. Which would once again prove why treating giants like humans is bad idea. Hagrid & Maxime demonstrate that half-giants could acclimate to society relatively well, though Hagrid's case again points out why certain vocations might be bad idea.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
Well, I certainly wasn't expecting to enter this thread and find rampant bigotry, even if against fictional minorities.
 
nuclear death frog said:
Explicitly no. I just read the conversation in HBP; Ron said that Greyback hadn't been transformed, Lupin said that he didn't think Bill would be a werewolf
That he wasn't certain is interesting. Then again, magic isn't very experimentally reliable, so I suppose he couldn't be.

Then again maybe most werewolves don't run around attacking people whilst not transformed, resulting in a lack of data.
 
Shirotsume said:
Well, I certainly wasn't expecting to enter this thread and find rampant bigotry, even if against fictional minorities.
I distinctly remember you whining about lack of care about safety in HP-verse, so this kind of realistic safety concerns should be right in your alley. Fanon is one thing, one could rationalize a lot more nuance you in particular were quite unwilling to grant for your targets, be they Wizarding Society/Hogwarts/Dumbledore or whatever. But as long as we're discussing canon, picture it paints about werewolves isn't pretty.

The fact that you might even implicitly relate infectious and at at best highly volatile people with minorities is telling. Seems like your sense of equality is rather skin-deep, perhaps an anti-racism course is in order?
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
Cynical Kyle said:
I distinctly remember you whining about lack of care about safety in HP-verse, so this kind of realistic safety concerns should be right in your alley.
Link me, because I don't recall ever having a debate with anyone over safety standards in hogwarts, unless it was a one-off comment about Petrification Proliferation.

Fanon is one thing, one could rationalize a lot more nuance you in particular were quite unwilling to grant for your targets, be they Wizarding Society/Hogwarts/Dumbledore or whatever. But as long as we're discussing canon, picture it paints about werewolves isn't pretty.
What the fuck is this even English.

The fact that you might even implicitly relate infectious and at at best highly volatile people with minorities is telling. Seems like your sense of equality is rather skin-deep, perhaps an anti-racism course is in order?
This is quite possibly the most hilarious strawman I've seen in my life, and I was on TFF when Raine was around. Seriously, what the fuck mate.
 
Shirotsume said:
Link me, because I don't recall ever having a debate with anyone over safety standards in hogwarts, unless it was a one-off comment about Petrification Proliferation.
Apologies for this one. Unless it actually happened in some obscure thread I missed, I ended up mistaking you with Chuckq who loved to bitch about it in major ones.

What the fuck is this even English.
It's whatever the text chooses to identify as. Didn't the society teach you that using restrictive labels is wrong?

This is quite possibly the most hilarious strawman I've seen in my life, and I was on TFF when Raine was around. Seriously, what the fuck mate.
I'm flattered, but Raine was lot more entertaining than I could ever hope to be. Your style of arguing is actually closer to good old LR's canon extrapolations based on HP Misc. ideas, Rec. & Update threads I crawled through. Although unlike him you don't usually try to pass your extrapolations as canon.

Bandying adhoms back-n-forth is TFF tradition I'm happy to participate in, but can you offer anything substantive? If not, we can totally continue throwing snide remarks at each other.
 

OniGanon

Well-Known Member
If I had a condition that involved me TURNING INTO A FUCKING OMNICIDAL WOLF THING once a month and feeling like crap a few days afterward, I'm fairly confident I would never, GODDAMN EVER forget about it. That kind of shit would be ticking away in my thoughts at all times, constantly counting down the days until it happens again. My entirely life would be scheduled around it.

So this 'forget to take their medicine' stuff sounds pretty silly to me.


"Sorry about your son, old chap. I forgot to take my medicine. It just totally slipped my fucking mind that I was going to turn into a lupine murder machine this week."
 
OniGanon said:
If I had a condition that involved me TURNING INTO A FUCKING OMNICIDAL WOLF THING once a month and feeling like crap a few days afterward, I'm fairly confident I would never, GODDAMN EVER forget about it. That kind of shit would be ticking away in my thoughts at all times, constantly counting down the days until it happens again. My entirely life would be scheduled around it.

So this 'forget to take their medicine' stuff sounds pretty silly to me.


"Sorry about your son, old chap. I forgot to take my medicine. It just totally slipped my fucking mind that I was going to turn into a lupine murder machine this week."
Remus Lupin crashes that argument. And as he's the nicest & most responsible werewolf we've seen in canon, what does that tell about rest of them?
 
remember that lupin was also an Idiot who 'forgot' to both take his medicine and get the fuck out of 'human contact' because... plot.
OTOH that was pretty much the only time Lupin did that.
otoh, lupin was also the only werewolf we saw that was one of the 'good guys' the others we saw were fenrir's and he was a psycho, werewolf or not.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
What if you just got, like, totally blackout drunk the night of the full moon, so even if you woke back up once you turned into a monster, you were just stumbling around all sloppy for the whole night.
 
:mindfart: wonders if that's what wolfsbane actually does? getting them so high that they are 'docile':mindfart:
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
That's actually what Remus does in Remus Lupin, PI. Turns out the wolf is a fan of scotch. He's quite annoyed that he can't actually publish his findings to help other werewolves because... he's a werewolf.

Cynical Kyle: There's not really much for me to comment on. In-book and in-universe JK Rowling made it pretty clear that while the fear of giants was pretty legit, half-giants and werewolves have never actually been super evil as a rule, just discriminated against. Hell, in-book there's a one-off comment in history class about a werewolf bill of rights or something like that that the ministry tried in like the 1600s where werewolves would be guaranteed equal rights if they pledged to follow a code of conduct- and the examples given were explicitly 'lock yourself up the night of the full moon' and 'do your best not to eat people.' This was before wolfsbane, at that.
It's said the only reason it failed is because no werewolf was willing to out themselves to sign it. It's pretty clear the ministry has been willing to go to bat for werewolves in the past, regardless of the suspicion and paranoia against them, so it's a bit silly to claim that there 'must be truth' behind the bigotry.

Most of the current resurgence of hate seems to be the direct result of Grayback and his singular pack under Voldemort, and Umbridge having a high enough position to push her idiocy into law.
 
As for the one time Lupin forgot to take his potion, he was under the unique and decidedly extreme circumstance of learning that one of his murdered friends wasn't murdered, that maybe his other good friend was framed, and that he had a chance to finally bring one of the people responsible for James and Lily's murder to justice. I imagine under normal circumstances he wouldn't forget, but these are pretty far removed from normal circumstances.
 
Wolfsbane is a real plant. If the magical variety is based on the real variety, which it seems to be, since the plant is also called Aconite (or Monkshood), then the potion is likely toxic. It might well make werewolves too sick to do much, in addition to letting them stay "human" in mind.
 
the potion is just called that, i can't recall anything about the actual ingredients of that potion or if aconite, monkshood, wolf's bane, leopard's bane, mousebane, women's bane, devil's helmet, Queen of all Poisons, or blue rocket is part of those.
but as a trivia Snape actually asks Harry about it in his first class.
 
Rising Dragon said:
As for the one time Lupin forgot to take his potion, he was under the unique and decidedly extreme circumstance of learning that one of his murdered friends wasn't murdered, that maybe his other good friend was framed, and that he had a chance to finally bring one of the people responsible for James and Lily's murder to justice.  I imagine under normal circumstances he wouldn't forget, but these are pretty far removed from normal circumstances.
AND the son of James and Lily and one friend was going to rescue their other friend who was surrounded by the two already-mentioned people.
 
Shirotsume said:
That's actually what Remus does in Remus Lupin, PI. Turns out the wolf is a fan of scotch. He's quite annoyed that he can't actually publish his findings to help other werewolves because... he's a werewolf.

Cynical Kyle: There's not really much for me to comment on. In-book and in-universe JK Rowling made it pretty clear that while the fear of giants was pretty legit, half-giants and werewolves have never actually been super evil as a rule, just discriminated against. Hell, in-book there's a one-off comment in history class about a werewolf bill of rights or something like that that the ministry tried in like the 1600s where werewolves would be guaranteed equal rights if they pledged to follow a code of conduct- and the examples given were explicitly 'lock yourself up the night of the full moon' and 'do your best not to eat people.' This was before wolfsbane, at that.
It's said the only reason it failed is because no werewolf was willing to out themselves to sign it. It's pretty clear the ministry has been willing to go to bat for werewolves in the past, regardless of the suspicion and paranoia against them, so it's a bit silly to claim that there 'must be truth' behind the bigotry.

Most of the current resurgence of hate seems to be the direct result of Grayback and his singular pack under Voldemort, and Umbridge having a high enough position to push her idiocy into law.
Yet the fact that no werewolf accepted code of conduct that loose backs up my argument. That likely fueled future hate in the first place. If carrot-approach isn't working, clearly it's time to use stick.We can extrapolate all we want for reason(s) why, but the few canon examples we have support the notion that most werewolf are persecuted for reason.

Rising Dragon: Yet you aren't willing to imagine that other werewolves could have just as pressing personal reasons which would make them to forget to take the potion? That's pretty harsh, denying the human(oid) capability of making mistakes.
 
... it actually doesn't because, but it doesn't mean they are good either, just that there was enough bigotrism and stuff to make them 'come out of the closet' a social suicide, justified or not.
 
shioran toushin said:
... it actually doesn't because, but it doesn't mean they are good either, just that there was enough bigotrism and stuff to make them 'come out of the closet' a social suicide, justified or not.
[Citation needed] for your claim about "enough bigotrism and stuff" that happened to werewolves in past. Way Britain's wizarding government treats werewolves is incredibly lenient when you realize that they are essentially an incurable epidemic in practice. All of the "bigotry" I remember were later legislation that Shirotsume mentioned, which in all likelihood found fertile political climate after nicer approaches failed.

You could invent numerous ways to explain it, but facts are that *canonically* werewolves aren't treated well because most are at best indifferent to the danger they pose to others if not downright malicious. Most of them deserve the shit they get at this point.
 
i was refering to the same example Shirotsume mentioned, noone was willing to oust themselves as a werewolf, because it would be a social suicide at best, whether because they were outright malicious and wanted to keep rampaging or because outright fear and discrimination can't be discerned only infered because like we all said there are too few examples given in canon that were not deeply polarized (lupin and fenrir's crew) to one side or another, so what most of us are complaining are Biased, infered and assumed behaviors.
 
Cynical Kyle said:
Rising Dragon: Yet you aren't willing to imagine that other werewolves could have just as pressing personal reasons which would make them to forget to take the potion? That's pretty harsh, denying the human(oid) capability of making mistakes.
Let's not put words in my mouth, please.  I merely pointed out how extreme Lupin's circumstances were.  Plenty of people forget to take their medication on time, yes.  Generally speaking, though, failing to take their medication won't turn them into infectious, murderous beasts.  I imagine it would take decidedly extreme circumstances like Lupin's for an everyday werewolf to forget to take their medicine.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
shioran toushin said:
i was refering to the same example Shirotsume mentioned, noone was willing to oust themselves as a werewolf, because it would be a social suicide at best, whether because they were outright malicious and wanted to keep rampaging or because outright fear and discrimination can't be discerned only infered because like we all said there are too few examples given in canon that were not deeply polarized (lupin and fenrir's crew) to one side or another, so what most of us are complaining are Biased, infered and assumed behaviors.
It's a moot point anyway- the reason the code of conduct failed was explicitly because the threat of retribution was too great if they outed themselves as werewolves.

The ministry going to bat for you doesn't mean shit if you already got murdered.

Frankly, the fact that Cynical Kyle thinks it's acceptable to start treating werewolves like utter shit because they 'deserve it' for not suiciding en masse to show support for something they can do on their own anyway is...

I don't even know what words there are for that, honestly. Like goddamn.
 
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