Bleach How skilled could Ichigo be with kido?

[adevilinthedark]

Now, we all know, at the moment, that Ichigo sucks with Kido. That is because he's never actually tried them, and no one ever bothered to teach him.

If someone HAD tried to teach him, how skilled do you think he would be able to become with them?

He does have the ability, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to make the cannonball in the rescue arc.

Also, t: , why does everyone seem to think that Ichigo is a complete dumbass? He isn't. He was ranked in his school. Obviously, he is a good learner at the very least if he can get a ranking.

 

[Lord Raine]

I would contest the idea that Ichigo "sucks" at Kido, because he doesn't know any, and no one has ever bothered to teach him. There's a difference between being a terrible martial artist, and not being a martial artist.

To be terrible at it, you have to know some, but be bad at doing it. Ichigo is the "not a martial artist" in this particular scenario. He's not bad at it, because he doesn't know any of it. Being 'bad' at something requires a capacity in whatever the something is. Just a low quality capacity.


As for whether or not he would be any good with it, that depends entirely on how it works. Zangetsu is confirmed in manga canon to help Ichigo concentrate and compress his spiritual energy. Depending on the actual mechanics of Kido, that could be an incredible aid and boost, or it could do approximately jack squat.

And since we don't know how skilled Ichigo might actually be in it (as like I said, and you mentioned, he's never tried it or been taught it), it's hard to say, beyond factoring in outside things like Zangetsu's abilities.

However, Ichigo does have highly refined supernatural abilities, which he basically came up with himself. Rukia outright says that it's mindblowing for someone who's never been trained a day as a Shinigami to use a technique that some Captains have trouble with.

Ichigo also managed to preform a Quincy exclusive technique just by hearing Uryu describe how it works once.

So going off of that, I'd say that Ichigo would probably be a fairly exceptional student if he was taught Kido, regardless of whether or not Zangetsu's abilities would help.

why does everyone seem to think that Ichigo is a complete dumbass? He isn't. He was ranked in his school. Obviously, he is a good learner at the very least if he can get a ranking.

Because people are used to dealing with "clever but stupid" shonen protagonists, and thus mentally lump Ichigo in with that group automatically.

The fact that Ichigo 'appears' to be stupid in-context isn't helping. By that, I mean he knows essencially nothing about Soul Society or the spiritual world in general, and has to ask all the 'obvious' questions.

 

[windstorm]

No idea on how good Ichigo would be with kido. Someone, like Rukia maybe, should really have tried to teach it to him ages ago. Ichigo might be able to use kido pretty effectively in a battle situation. He's generally a pretty direct and spontaneous type of fighter, but can analyze his opponent and think up some pretty good ideas in the middle of a fight.

Anyways as to how good Ichigo would be with it well it depends on some of the mechanics and technical aspects behind kido as well, which we actually don't know all that much about from this series. How much concentration and control does it take to cast a kido spell effectively? Does channeling too much reitsu cause the spell effects to mess up? Is there a specific method for channeling the reitsu? etc. Ichigo could very well turn out to relatively skilled with it and have no problems or he could end up like Renji with almost no aptitude for it at all. You could have something similar to Naruto with chakra, where too much reitsu causes poor control and messes up certain techniques.

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On the other thing I agree with Lord Raine on Ichigo. People just automatically associate Ichigo with the somewhat dim shonen protagonists you often see. Ichigo's personality seems to suit the role pretty well. Most of the time the manga has little to no focus on any academic or technical knowledge the characters would have as well.

 

[Hedgehog's Roommate]

We just don't know enough of how kido works to be sure.

That said, I think the biggest problem Ichigo would face in learning kido is, imho, the very reason people think he's an idiot. He's very immediate minded. What I mean is that he spends his time only learning what he needs to know in order to deal with the immediate problem, and nothing else. This makes sense though, he's a teenager, very few of those have good long term thinking skills.
Look at every fight he's been in. If he get's his ass beat and is told of some skill that could potentially keep that from happening again in the future, he grabs it with both hands, and just runs with it. However once complete he's content to rest on his laurels a little until the next crisis. That could make him a poor student of kido, or it could make him the most kickass kido user ever. Since when he does apply himself he learns freakishly fast.

t: Lord Raine what Quincy skill are you referring to?

 

[Sunhawk]

I think the sensory one?

 

[Amodelsino]

[quote="Hedgehog']t: Lord Raine what Quincy skill are you referring to?[/quote]
I don't know, but I do know what he was able to perform without hearing about it.

He did that before he met Ishida.

Also something to add to the 'not an idiot-hero' thing:

That's right, William Shakespeare.

 

[Steel]

Favorite celebrity:

 

[Mercsenary]

Hmmm wasnt it said that he has a lot of reiatsu? Work on that control a bit and what was that red fire ball kido called?

An image of Ichigo spamming that kido comes to mind.

"FACE RED FIRE BALL WALL OF DEATH!"

 

[Lord Raine]

I think the sensory one?

Yeah. The sensory ribbons thing is a very high level Shinigami ability. However, the ability to see the ribbons in 'color' is a Quincy technique. Shinigami just see ribbons, given the dialogue. Quincy, though, see different colored ones, in accordance with the kind of spiritual power the ribbon's owner has.

Ichigo came up with the Shinigami visualization technique all by himself, but it was Uryu who told him about the colors part that Quincy can see. Then, when Ichigo was in the pit trying to find the box that contained his Zanpakuto, he remembered what Uryu had said about different 'colored' ribbons, and somehow managed to concentrate and pull it off himself. Then, it was easy for him to pick out the one ribbon out of the giant mass of them that lead to Zangetsu.

 

[Garahs]

Yeah. The sensory ribbons thing is a very high level Shinigami ability. However, the ability to see the ribbons in 'color' is a Quincy technique. Shinigami just see ribbons, given the dialogue. Quincy, though, see different colored ones, in accordance with the kind of spiritual power the ribbon's owner has.

I don't buy that. From the way Ishida said it sounded like it was simply a fact of the technique. Not something specific to the Quincy. It's simply that all shinigami ribbons are black as opposed to the white of human spirits. In the pit, Ichigo was just thinking of what Ishida would say and hey, Shinigami's ribbons are black, so lets use that technique to find his powers.

Though considering he only used the technique once before and there weren't really any Shinigami around at the time (Rukia's powers were virtually non-existant by that time), it'd be a little hard to prove.

As for Ichigo learning Kido, I think he could learn it well if he had the time to do so. It's just that with the current events, he doesn't have this time.

 

[Amodelsino]

I don't buy that.? From the way Ishida said it sounded like it was simply a fact of the technique.? Not something specific to the Quincy.? It's simply that all shinigami ribbons are black as opposed to the white of human spirits.? In the pit, Ichigo was just thinking of what Ishida would say and hey, Shinigami's ribbons are black, so lets use that technique to find his powers.

Though considering he only used the technique once before and there weren't really any Shinigami around at the time (Rukia's powers were virtually non-existant by that time), it'd be a little hard to prove.

As for Ichigo learning Kido, I think he could learn it well if he had the time to do so.? It's just that with the current events, he doesn't have this time.

Yeah, Uryu just says that only the upper level of Shinigami can perform it. That's still makes it ridiculously impressive that Ichigo recreated it on his own through natural talent and instinct though, especially given that he didn't even know it was a legitimate technique until Uryu told him about it.

Personally I think Ichigo would do the same with Kido as he's done with every other spiritual technique he's bothered to emulate (emulate becuase I don't think he's ever actually been properly instructed on a technique). That being learn it faster than anyone should have a right to.

 

[lord geryon]

I'd laugh if Ichigo just busts out Black Coffin one day, since he saw Aizen use it.

 

[~NGD OMEGA~]

Holy cow I got in... Anyway there's the orb thing to take into account for this. At first he was hopeless at it, but later managed to pull off an insane one with the advice on how to do it.

On Ichigo being an idiot though... Kubo seems to like doing strange variations on the normal archtypes, and sometimes shifts to different degrees of what they normally would be in more standard shonen. There are times when Ichigo is really portrayed as an idiot, like seriously so, even without taking into account the knowledge factor. Quite a few scenes also involving Ganju for instance, and even his 'plan' earlier in the series. He's not a complete idiot sure, and apparently is book smart, but he acts pretty stupid at times like most shonen heros would. I wouldn't say he's your typical idiot shonen lead, but he does have several scenes that lean in that direction.

 

[bissek]

Ichigo would be terrible at any kido that requires fine control for the same reason Naruto can't use a standard Bunshin - too much raw power with too little control. Remember, he was the only one who had any serious trouble figuring out how to make the spirit cannonball they used to break into Seretei, and he was the one who was unable to tune his power levels to meld with everyone else's.

On kido techniques that can be brute forced, he could be potentially devastating for the exact same reason.

Of course, the single greatest obstacle to Ichigo using kido is the fact that nobody's ever attempted to train him in it. In the first story arc, Ichigo wasn't much of a student until Grand Fisher, and Rukia wasn't much of a teacher, either. After Rukia was taken, Ichigo was too busy learning general combat skills from Kisuke to try picking up an entirely new style of combat. While in SS, the only time he had for training was taken up entirely by learning Bankai. After SS, he spent all his training time focused on controlling his Vaizard powers. He just hasn't had the time.

 

[nick012000]

I'd laugh if Ichigo just busts out Black Coffin one day, since he saw Aizen use it.

Ha!

-------

"You're still trying to get up? I cut you in half. You're only barely connected by your spine."

Ichigo gritted his teeth, and an idea popped into his head.

"Then I'll take you out from the ground!"

Reaching out, he began to gather his spiritual pressure, black and purple lightning coiled about his hand.

"Hado #90! Kirohitsugi!"

The black coffin appeared around Aizen, its spikes thrusting in as it umpaled him from every angle. Then, in an instant, it was gone.

Aizen held up his white haori.

"You know, I think you put a hole in it." Tossing it aside, he added, "It's not like I needed it any more, anyway."

 

[Amodelsino]

Remember, he was the only one who had any serious trouble figuring out how to make the spirit cannonball they used to break into Seretei

I knew someone would bring this up. He did have problems when he was going on the explanation that Kukaku gave, but he managed it pretty much instantly when he used the principle behind the use of Kido instead.

Besides, the reason Ichigo had trouble wasn't anything to do with 'fine control', it was because the entire exercise was compressing his spiritual energy into a small and specific form. Of course he's going to have more trouble than everyone else at it, given that, in terms of raw spiritual energy, they were all mooks compared to him. There has never been any indication that any Kido spell relies on taking a large amount of spiritual energy and compressing it into a small and specific solid form, which is what Ichigo was trying to do (even if it wasn't what he was supposed to do).

 

[adevilinthedark]

Hey, I forgot how that explanation actually went. Could someone explain? Manga isn't being very helpful.

 

[Lord Raine]

Hey, I forgot how that explanation actually went. Could someone explain? Manga isn't being very helpful.

Checking it now.

 

[Lord Raine]

Found what the manga says.

I'd forgotten how much Uryu got beaten on for slapstick. The smear of blood on the sphere is a nice touch.

Here we see it has something to do with focusing your spiritual power into your palms.

And here, during Ganju's explaination of his shortcut technique, we are told "the basics of all Kido."

 

[zeebee1]

Well, if Ganju could do it it can't be that hard. But it should be noted that supposedly the type of kido he uses is different from shinigami kido.

 

[Lord Raine]

Well, if Ganju could do it it can't be that hard. But it should be noted that supposedly the type of kido he uses is different from shinigami kido.

He says it's the basis for all demon arts, which is the literal translation for Kido. Kukaku affirms this earlier, as you can see, by saying "isn't every Shinigami capable of demon arts?"

His may be different, but it's still Kido, so the same principles should still apply.