Nasuverse I believe the local parlance is 'crackfic'?
- Thread starter Pale Wolf
- Start date
It's still unclear to me how a boy who was essentially nothing more than a scapegoat was the cause of the taint on the Grail.
Was the villagers' curse to make him the avatar of All The World's Evil effective? Or did it somehow turn out that way due to the association of the name Angra Mainyu? I'm confused.
Was the villagers' curse to make him the avatar of All The World's Evil effective? Or did it somehow turn out that way due to the association of the name Angra Mainyu? I'm confused.
Hmmm, let me see if I can answer this. The grail doesn't summon the heroes themselves. With the exception of Arthur, who's still alive, all of them are basically copies of concepts. The concepts themselves are stored at the Throne of Heroes, the actual people aren't there. Even though the sacrifice was nothing more than a scapegoat, his concept was pure evil and that is what was summoned and what corrupted the grail.
Of course I could be wrong, but I think that is somewhat correct.
Of course I could be wrong, but I think that is somewhat correct.
I was gonna post a link to a site that explains why Avenger corupted the Grail. I'll try to explain. Also contains spoilers on much of the backstory.
Avenger = Angra Mainyu
Avenger was sacrificed in a village ritual to "cleanse" the village. Had something to do with the idea that humans are not naturally evil but instead are "tainted" with sin or darkness. The ritual is done becuase they believe the evil need to placed somewhere or it would just taint them again. So they try up Avenger and start placing all their sins upon him. Thats what all the black tatoos covering his body represent. If I remember correctly, Avenger's father bit off Avenger's toe. (can't remember for sure)
After the ritual was over, it left Avenger dead in mind but not body(unsure?). As it goes, he goes from being a person to "concept" or "a wish" to be more precise. The wish was to gather all of mankinds evil into one being. The transformation might be said that he goes from "personality" to "wish". Oddly, even though Avenger is all of mankind's evil, he does not hate mankind. I believe he becomes a "demon that accepts any outcome". (little fuzzy on that) He wants to help humans even though he is suppose to be the essense of their hatred.
When Avenger was summoned during the Third Grail war, he is all wish, but no power, personality, NP, or face. He is defeated on the fourth day of the war. (Note: When a Servant is defeated, they return to the grail as a way to power it's completion. The idea behind the grail is using the servants as a way to touch the "root" of the world, which might be described as a sea of souls. This "touching" is what allows the grail to grant wishes.) When Avenger goes to the Greater grail after his defeat, he merges with the Greater grail. (note: the darkness that controls Sakura is actually hatred "bleeding" from Avenger... i think) This is possible because he is acutally a "wish" and not an actual servant. This is what causes the "tainting" of the grail and also allows the summoning of servants other than "heros". Even though Avenger wants to help, since he is "evil" he can only grant wishes through distruction. Thats what caused the huge fire during the 4th war.
Hope that answered more questions than it raised.(note: it's been a while since i've read this so I might 'be wrong on/have missed' a few points.)
Edit: F1 explains it much fewer words. :sweat:
~The Ecchi Sessha
Avenger = Angra Mainyu
Avenger was sacrificed in a village ritual to "cleanse" the village. Had something to do with the idea that humans are not naturally evil but instead are "tainted" with sin or darkness. The ritual is done becuase they believe the evil need to placed somewhere or it would just taint them again. So they try up Avenger and start placing all their sins upon him. Thats what all the black tatoos covering his body represent. If I remember correctly, Avenger's father bit off Avenger's toe. (can't remember for sure)
After the ritual was over, it left Avenger dead in mind but not body(unsure?). As it goes, he goes from being a person to "concept" or "a wish" to be more precise. The wish was to gather all of mankinds evil into one being. The transformation might be said that he goes from "personality" to "wish". Oddly, even though Avenger is all of mankind's evil, he does not hate mankind. I believe he becomes a "demon that accepts any outcome". (little fuzzy on that) He wants to help humans even though he is suppose to be the essense of their hatred.
When Avenger was summoned during the Third Grail war, he is all wish, but no power, personality, NP, or face. He is defeated on the fourth day of the war. (Note: When a Servant is defeated, they return to the grail as a way to power it's completion. The idea behind the grail is using the servants as a way to touch the "root" of the world, which might be described as a sea of souls. This "touching" is what allows the grail to grant wishes.) When Avenger goes to the Greater grail after his defeat, he merges with the Greater grail. (note: the darkness that controls Sakura is actually hatred "bleeding" from Avenger... i think) This is possible because he is acutally a "wish" and not an actual servant. This is what causes the "tainting" of the grail and also allows the summoning of servants other than "heros". Even though Avenger wants to help, since he is "evil" he can only grant wishes through distruction. Thats what caused the huge fire during the 4th war.
Hope that answered more questions than it raised.(note: it's been a while since i've read this so I might 'be wrong on/have missed' a few points.)
Edit: F1 explains it much fewer words. :sweat:
~The Ecchi Sessha
Now it does make sense. Thanks to both of you!
One thing I did get clearly was just how Sakura was "controlled". In point of fact, the emotions she felt as Dark Sakura were entirely her own. Thanks to Matou Zouken's worms, her libido was driven through the roof - creating an ever-increasing lust for Shirou, and consequently an ever-increasing envy of Saber, Rin, and Ilya, who she saw as "competition that Sakura was losing ground to". Further, Zouken taught Shinji to heap abuse on Sakura (strongly hinted at, and possibly confirmed at some point I missed, that Shinji repeatedly raped her) - there are all kinds of issues that spring up from that.
Her connection to Angra Mainyu came from the worms Zouken put in her. Specifically, Zouken had taken broken shards of the Grail from the Fourth Grail War and merged them with some of his worms, which he put into Sakura. This effectively made Sakura a candidate for being the new "body" of the Grail (supposed to be Ilya's job), and when Shinji tried to blackmail her, she snapped and her dormant magic power joined with the tainted Greater Grail - effectively making her and Angra Mainyu into one, giving her access to endless magic power (from the limitless potential for evil in mankind?), and making her very scary.
It certainly wasn't mind-control - IIRC, she changed back pretty quickly when she decided she wanted to.
Hmm. I remember reading that, though there is only one Greater Grail, there is a new Lesser Grail for each Heaven's Feel ritual. Could that mean that Avenger was the Lesser Grail for the Third Grail War?
One thing I did get clearly was just how Sakura was "controlled". In point of fact, the emotions she felt as Dark Sakura were entirely her own. Thanks to Matou Zouken's worms, her libido was driven through the roof - creating an ever-increasing lust for Shirou, and consequently an ever-increasing envy of Saber, Rin, and Ilya, who she saw as "competition that Sakura was losing ground to". Further, Zouken taught Shinji to heap abuse on Sakura (strongly hinted at, and possibly confirmed at some point I missed, that Shinji repeatedly raped her) - there are all kinds of issues that spring up from that.
Her connection to Angra Mainyu came from the worms Zouken put in her. Specifically, Zouken had taken broken shards of the Grail from the Fourth Grail War and merged them with some of his worms, which he put into Sakura. This effectively made Sakura a candidate for being the new "body" of the Grail (supposed to be Ilya's job), and when Shinji tried to blackmail her, she snapped and her dormant magic power joined with the tainted Greater Grail - effectively making her and Angra Mainyu into one, giving her access to endless magic power (from the limitless potential for evil in mankind?), and making her very scary.
It certainly wasn't mind-control - IIRC, she changed back pretty quickly when she decided she wanted to.
Hmm. I remember reading that, though there is only one Greater Grail, there is a new Lesser Grail for each Heaven's Feel ritual. Could that mean that Avenger was the Lesser Grail for the Third Grail War?
