Harry Potter Inverted Harry Potter

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#1
Not entirely sure where this came from, but it seemed like an interesting thought exercise.

What if the muggles and magicals were reversed? Everyone who was a wizard or a witch is a muggle, and everyone had no magical powers now has them.

Society: Given that muggles have no means of magically concealing themselves, they wouldn't be able to hide themselves from society at large. Being without magical power would likely be more of a social stigma.

Depending on how magical genetics works, things could even be worse. If the canon "Magic" gene was dominant, then intermarrying in this world would basically doom your children to be without magic. Knowing this, muggles might be ostracized, or even hated.

This would probably result in the Dursley's treating Harry even worse, since everyone would know that Lily was a muggle, and their desires to be normal would mean they would hide the fact that any of their blood was lacking. Harry might be hidden away and not even publically acknowledged.

They may start treating him better after Dudley displays magical abilities, since his poor blood didn't pass on to him, but I still can't see them treating him well. Maybe just neglecting or ignoring him. He can get food or read books, but they aren't going to go out of their way to make him happy.


Civilization: Given the resistance wizards have towards technology, I would see their tech level somewhere around 14th or 15th century levels. At the absolute best, they may have progressed to a Steampunk level society, but that's unlikly and certainly computers and other modern tech don't exist.

Depending on how this is spun, that could mean they still think the earth is flat, or that the only recently discovered the Americas, and the native magicians and their society. Could be an interesting thing to explore.


Pure Bloods: No longer the pinnacle of magical ability in their minds, they most likely resent their failings. They might even think like the canon Dursleys, and say that it's unnatural. Could easily begin forming a KKK type group.

Probably have more thoughts for this later, but I'd appreciate any thoughts or perspectives you guys all have to offer.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#2
You do realize canon has a perfect example of this situation already, yes?

They're called squibs.


All you're doing is changing the scale.
 

jaredstar

Well-Known Member
#3
off i hand i would say the world would likely be suffering from over crowding (life spans that can react at least the mid 100's) and disease (various medical diseases that are never cured if the tech level is where you said)
 

Cynical Kyle

Well-Known Member
#4
Where did that spiel about wizards in HP-verse being against technology even come from ? Weasleys had that flying car, wizards had no problem using radios & cameras, Dumbledore even had London Subway map in one of his scars. Even if they weren't technologically progressive, diseases would hardly be a problem. Their medicine is already ahead of ours because they can simply magic the problems away. Brain tumor? No prob, vanishing charm will take care of it. Broken bones? Whelp, drink this to grow new ones.

Magical world really gets far too much shit for being "backwards" from fanbase despite evidence to contrary. Even the richest of normal folk don't have access to almost instant long distance travel whereas pretty much every witch & wizard can Apparate & Portkeys seem to be easy to buy if one can't simply make one. Their newspapers have moving pictures, possibly even before television was invented. They don't need broad range of household tools & machines as magic takes care of that. Floo has triple function as fireplace, transporting and communication like older phones. Internet, computers & mobile phones seem to be the only feats of modern technology that magicals don't have equivalent of.

Wand literally serves as possibly lethal Swiss army knife. While it can't likely equal the sheer destructive power of most destructive modern weapons, clever wizard could still conceivably cause immense destruction by poisoning water supplies, charming/transfiguring key infrastructure & confounding or controlling political & military leadership etc. If Voldemort really wanted to kill all muggles, he would've only needed to Imperio a top brass of nuclear power and force a nuke launch for bonafide MAD-scenario.

As for social issues, judging by Hogwarts Founders their society seems to have held women in equal position to males since Dark Ages. I haven't read DH in a while, but I don't recall Dumbledore catching flak from being gay either nor did there seem to be any discrimination based on skin colour. Their social issues are different, more focused on discrimination against magical creatures & those with lack of magic. Certainly not more progressive than muggles on that front, but not behind them either unlike fanon claims.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#5
Cynical Kyle said:
If Voldemort really wanted to kill all muggles, he would've only needed to Imperio a top brass of nuclear power and force a nuke launch for bonafide MAD-scenario.
This is probably the best evidence that they really don't understand or respect technology. Voldemort grew up in the muggle world, was around when nuclear weapons were used in WW2, and DID NOTHING with this knowledge.

The Magical world is disdainful for anything that isn't magical. Most of the technology, like radios, is modified to be magical in nature. Mr. Weasley, who is a tech enthusiast, can't even name a telephone correctly.

Also, you can't just use magic as a solve all theoretical problems. I'll give you bones, since we saw an example of that, but a brain tumor? We have no evidence that there is a spell to detect one, let alone treat one.

I'm not saying society can't be advanced, but the advancement will not be in technology. The Hogwarts Express wouldn't be a train, but it might be a massive, flying ship, similar to Durstrang's.

As for sexual equality, you're choosing examples that were at the pinnacle of their potential. That's like saying we had sexual equality because X famous person was powerful. It's a poor choice because they represent the 1%, rather than society as a whole. The Dumbledore being gay was only talked about outside of the books, and there was no evidence that he came out. We don't really have a good picture of their stances on social issues, but for the sake of the story,k I think we can say they are on par with the modern age.
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#6
Even if they aren't disdainful of technology, like Mr. Weasley, it's pretty obvious they don't understand technology in the slightest. Like Mr. Weasley.
 
#7
I think that the reason that the Wizard world probably didn't invent much technology is because it didn't need to. Why, for instance, would you need to invent a car when you can get from A to B quicker, safer and easier using floo powder? On the social issues thing we get no hint either way on attitudes towards homosexuality, but we get some of info on squibs and some disdain from families like the Malfoys on people who are 'mudbloods'.

I think that the idea of reversing things could make for a very interesting fanfic, although I don't think it would be to everyones tastes because it is inverting canon. Nice idea though.
 
#8
Cynical Kyle said:
Where did that spiel about wizards in HP-verse being against technology even come from ? Weasleys had that flying car, wizards had no problem using radios & cameras, Dumbledore even had London Subway map in one of his scars.
The Weasleys had a flying Ford Anglia, which was last produced 15 years before Harry was born.  Televisions were also pervasive in every developed country before he was born.  Their cameras aren't described in the books that I can recall, but in the movie they use explosive powder flashes (which makes even less sense considering they can generate light without producing heat using their wands).  Their train is a coal-powered steam engine.  Grimmauld Place uses gas lamps, and every other building ever shown uses torches and candles.  I think all that indicates that wizards are, at the very least, resistant to technology, if they're not outright hostile towards it.
 
#9
point09micron_process said:
Cynical Kyle said:
Where did that spiel about wizards in HP-verse being against technology even come from ? Weasleys had that flying car, wizards had no problem using radios & cameras, Dumbledore even had London Subway map in one of his scars.
The Weasleys had a flying Ford Anglia, which was last produced 15 years before Harry was born.  Televisions were also pervasive in every developed country before he was born.  Their cameras aren't described in the books that I can recall, but in the movie they use explosive powder flashes (which makes even less sense considering they can generate light without producing heat using their wands).  Their train is a coal-powered steam engine.  Grimmauld Place uses gas lamps, and every other building ever shown uses torches and candles.  I think all that indicates that wizards are, at the very least, resistant to technology, if they're not outright hostile towards it.
Except why would they need it? 
That seems to be the point many people missed. Horses, trains, cars, planes, boats, they all came about because it takes time to get from Point A to Point B, and we want to take as little time as possible while being able to carry the most stuff.

Teleportation and shrinking charms remove the need for all of those. And if you can't teleport, you portkey, or Floo. 
That also removes the need for the majority of modern infrastructure.

The train is simply a fun thing to do, plus tradition. I mean, there's no reason not to simply give every child a portkey per family. Or pick them up and sidealong them to Hogsmead. They do it for fun, and give the kids a chance to socialize and catch up. 

And why not steam? We have evidence that they have everburning fire. And even heating charms. And they can produce water with their wands. That pretty much guarantees them unlimited energy right there, something we're still trying to do with all our green energy. No need for caol, unlimited water, and a train that can run forever as long as it has tracks and a wizard or witch.

And they do have Muggle items, like the camera and the wireless and such. But to me they seem more...tacked on for lack of a better word. Like someone looking at another culture, thinking, "Hey, those look fun to mess around with" and trying it. Kind of like Americans and their obsession with chopsticks. Do they use them in everyday life? No, most don't. But that doesn't mean they don't try and fiddle with them in restaurants or with takeout. 

People make the mistake of thinking of better or worse when looking at it, instead of thinking 'different.' 


I like to say it's like trying to describe color to a blind person. Now, imagine instead of a single blind person, its an entire nation of blind people. 
They wouldn't have half the technology we have, because they would have no need for it. Why invent telescopes, study the stars, or paint if there is no one who can see it? Would the thought even cross their minds?

Instead they might have a language like Braille, but one that would also impart smells or noise when touched. echolocation technologies that allow them to 'see' the would down to the microscopic level. Or equally imaginable things for people with sight. Because, what would be the point in half their technology, when its based on the premise of not being able to see?

My point is, when you have the senses and ability that comes with magic, you wouldn't invent things the muggle way. And it might seem backwards to someone who doesn't have those abilities.

As a final thing to end with:

To quote Hermione 'Most wizards don't have an ounce of logic.'

And to respond, I ask you, what use is logic, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and feels like a duck, but the moment you hit it with a Finite Incantatem it turns into a dog instead? What would logic say then? Is it a duck? A dog? A duckdog? 


We're told being able to think logically is a good thing, and it is in a world where the constants stay constant.
But, when you can manipulate the constants of the world with your will, a stick, and some words (The last two being optional) what use is logic?


(As a final note, I'm not saying wizards are better either. Just different.)
 
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