Nasuverse Iron is my blood, and LIGHT is my heart

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#1
Moved from Centralized Random Idea Thread.
nixofcyzerra said:
So I was perusing a forum I'd recently come across when I briefly glanced at a member's avatar, and saw a guy dual-wielding two swords, one white, one black. Now, I've been on a bit of a F/SN kick lately, so my first though was "Oh, Kanshou and Bakuya," but I take a second look and they're actually the Oblivion and Oathkeeper Keyblades. I have a passing thought that Shirou would have made a pretty damn good Keybearer.

Two days later, the thought has refused to leave my mind, I've discovered a grand total of three F/SN/KH crossovers, all of which were both on ff.net and appear to be self-inserts, though there's no power on this earth that can make me check, and I'm desperately scouring the two wiki's to see if Kingdom Heart mechanics contradict Nasu-verse mechanics (which doesn't actually seem to be a problem as long as I treatl KH magic as Age of Gods Magecraft, due to the individual worlds of KH being far less populated that Earth, and there being plenty of Phantasmal Species wandering around. Land of Dragons, anyone?)

So. Idea: When Master Xehanort tries to take Ventus to Destiny Islands to live out his final days, he gets waylaid somehow (I'm thinking maybe M. Xehanort senses the build up of prana for the coming grail war, or maybe I can think of a better idea later) and winds up in Fuyuki City around 1989, 1990, and Ventus's heart connects with an infant Shirou instead of newborn Sora. Four years later, after the fire and just as Shirou is having his epiphany about wanting to be a person who saves, Ventus's heart shows up and Shirou easily agrees to the merge.

Fast forward 10 years. Shirou is pretty much the same as canon, since Ventus wasn't shown to have any real effect on the formation of Sora's personality. His dreams of swords may occasionallyá include strange-looking ones that kinda look like keys, and he may or may not have "hallucinated" a mysterious voice after Lancer stabbed him, but that's about it.

I don't want to leave out Archer's storyline, so I'll be branching off the UBW route. I'm thinking that between days 4 and 6, definitely before Rider dies, the heartless (drawn by Angra Manyu?) invade and cause the world to disappear into darkness.

Shirou ends up in a place called Traverse Town, Saber has vanished, his command spells are still on his hand but seem to be inert, he's bizarrely gained the ability to project a giant key, and he's got this gem with blue and silver streaks that seems comforting somehow. Oh, and these two anthropomorphic animals, a duck and a dog, have shown up and seem to think he's some sort of chosen one. All in a day's work for a Hero of Justice, right?

Of course, there are more than a few beings from Shirou's world that can survive the world falling into darkness, and some of them will be more than happy to... take advantage of the opportunities that have come their way.


Note: I realise that F/SN having the multi-verse be canon interferes with KH's "there used to be 1 world, then it got broken up," concept, but I'll go with the idea that in every universe Naru Earth is a fragment of the KH original world, and the God's sealed it off and hid it. Or something. And I'm pretty sure I can use "The Light," as in the door to, as the Akashic Records.

Oh, and watch out for Arturia informing Merlin that her world's version of him is a perverted half-incubus, and Berserker facing off against the champion of the Colosseum.
fixed.
nixofcyzerra said:
MastaofBitches said:
That actually sounds pretty awesome, although I can't quite tell if the "gem" is Saber or not, given you mentioned her talking to Merlin, and Berserker fighting Hercules.
Spoilers (holy crap I worked out the colors sweet)The gem is Saber. All the other Servants are copies from the ToH, can go into spirit form and can be supported in prana by their masters, which, along with them all having "A rank willpower" ('cause, ya know, heroes,) gave them enough protection from the darkness to survive essentially unscathed. Saber, however couldn't go into spirit form, her soul was really present in a body provided by the grail, and she didn't have the necessary prana from Shirou, so she ended up crystallised. If she'd had Rin as her master, or if she was present in her real body and needed no prana support, she could have "pulled a beast" without much difficulty. Once Shirou levels up a bit, Saber will make more of an appearance. End Spoilers.

nick012000 said:
Rider, Berserker, and Caster being dropped into the world of Hercules would be hilarious shit. As would Saber's reaction to being dropped into the world of The Sword In The Stone. I mean, Saber knew what she was getting into when she pulled Caliburn from the stone, but this Arthur wound up pulling it free by accident!
nick012000 said:
MastaofBitches said:
Herc's world is made up of the Colosseum and the Underworld, and Merlin would be in Traverse Town or Radiant Garden.
Eh. Handwave the details; the entire point of Kingdom Hearts is as a vehicle to cross over the various Disney properties, just like the entire point of Fate Stay Night is "King Arthur vs Hercules vs Gilgamesh in the modern world". Say the fact that Shirou has Avalon inside of him delayed the destruction of the Arthurian world. Maybe the presence of the ancient Greek heroic spirits did the same to the world of the Hercules cartoon, as well; possibly because they wound up there as the Nasuverse was destroyed, and proceeded to kick enough Heartless ass to delay its destruction long enough for Shirou to arrive.

Regardless, though, seeing how Saber deals with the fact that in the new world her alternate self assumes the throne at age twelve, her beloved brother is a callous oaf, and her half-incubus wizard mentor is now a batty time-travelling sorceror and mechanical tinkerer would be well worth it. As would the Greek heroes' reactions to everything that got Disneyfied (so pretty much everything). ;)
Well, I don't think that Disney's never done anything with either Medea or Medusa, so beyond the differences between Nasu-ancient Greece and Disney-AG, I'm not exactly sure where comedy gold for those two is going to come from.
*checks disney wiki*
Ah, Rider's counterpart appeared in the Hercules T.V spin-off, where she was a lonely girl with a crush on Herc. Hades played her into accepting a spell that turned her human during the day so she could get closer to him, but it didn't work out in the end. She also had a pair of shades with heart-shaped lenses that blocked her petrifying stare. So I suppose that if they ever did meet, Rider might ask her if she has a spare pair. Oh, and Jason (and Perseus) were trained by Phil. And Jason was apparently voiced by Shatner. Although in the myth Herc travelled on the Argo, Disney Herc as a Teen bumped his head on the disassembled boat's mast at one point. So no Caster kicking Disney Jason in the balls.

Actually, MoB has a point. I don't believe that any of the worlds that Sora visited had pieces of them eaten by the Heartless. Oddly enough, Herc's world consists of the Colosseum and the Underworld, and only that. Unless there was more we weren't shown, or something. Wait, Birth by Sleep had "A Town Near Thebes. So Thebes exists. Which implies the rest of Disney ancient Greece exists as well.

As for Arthur meeting Arthur... Merlin is the only character from the SITS world shown, and it's all but stated that said world has fallen to darkness. I believe that he was in traverse town with the Fairy Godmother some time before Sora showed up. However, there will be several conversations between Saber and Merlin that I hope will be entertaining. "...Wart?" And her reaction to the Pride Lands...

But which non F/SN Nasu-verse characters would end up surviving Gaia being swallowed by darkness? Because if Crimson Moon. the 27 D.A.A's and half the Mage's association are running around making deals and experimenting on this bizarre thing that's called a heart, but not the blood-pumping one, things are going to get complicated.
nixofcyzerra said:
MinusMagnus said:
A few things about the KH/FSN cross.

* In Nasuverse aparently each different alternate universe is a different dream of Akasha. Whatever that means is up to debate, but there is a old dude running around between them, who is to say other people can't do it without resorting to Magic.
I don't think that Akasha and "The Light" are incompatible, so I'll be having them as essentially the same thing, but I figure the light will essentially be an aspect of Akasha in each universe. I suppose any modern mage who learns that Shirou is "the one who will open the door to light" will certainly have an opinion about him basically being destined to accomplish what almost every mage in history has wanted to do. And Zelretch will travel to different dimensions, not worlds. True magic will still be needed for any Sliders action, while Gummi ships/corridors of darkness will be needed for travel between the worlds.

*Supposedly anyone who reaches the Root can't come back. People who go out of their worlds can learn things (including magic) that doesn't exist back home. Gaia stomp down anything weird that happens in it's territory. Suspicious, isn't it.
Well, no-one's ever entered the Light and come back in KH, AFAIK, so no problem there. And Gaia's "stomping" may be used as just a quirk of Shirou's world, and may not be present on others, it depends. Shirou certainly won't lose his memory or fade from existence if and when he returns to his world. Gaia crushes paradoxes or anything else that disrupts it's order. I might even have it so that it's responsible for an extra strong world barrier that hid Shirou's world for so long (which is why the other worlds are unknown by modern magi.) However, it's still a system under Akasha, which is "the light." So darkness, or the heartless, should basically be "enemy number one," and possibly too powerful in high concentrations for Gaia to deal with. Spoiler A Counter Guardian will be called in the second a heartless eats somebody's heart, and once more start showing up, multiple guardians will be called in en masse. However, some heartless will be extremely close to the heart of the world, and Gaia will be lost before the CG's can rally and mount an effective counter assault. /Spoiler.
* Are the worlds seem in KH really limited to just what is seem in the games?
Apparently not, seeing as different areas appear in different games sometimes. See my earlier post for the "Town near Thebes" remark. They're there, there's just no reason for Sora/Roxas to go over. That said, I'm not going to expand every world to include stuff not shown in the games. It'd take forever.

I also have been thinking in ways of how to cross the two settings for quite some time. Ideas include:
*All the way back to when Kiritsugu lived on that island named after a crab, he made the Keyblade succession ritual with that guy from Birth By Sleep, I think his name was Terra.
Interesting, but would Kiritsugu really qualify for the Keyblade? He's got a strong heart, but he spends most of his life trying to not feel anything, acting as the "machine that is Emiya Kiritsugu." If a Keybearer's heart is their true power, then Kiritsugu's in trouble.

*At the end of the fourth Holy grail war, Angra Manyu(sp?) managed to put a crack on the barrier of the Nasuverse world in which the Heartless managed to get inside. Gaia can keep them from reaching the World's heart but the Grail is keeping the crack open. The plot would follow a Shirou who actually learned how to fight from his father as he help people in a Japan that is falling apart due to the little critters and searching for a permanent solution to the problem.
*Follow a similar premise to the one above but have Shirou figuring out how to travel between worlds from a magic book he got from a Heartless (some of them do carry these things) searching for a cure to his father's curse (it may or may not include get anough money to pay for a Mega Elixir). He would end up involved several adventures, including stoping the <a href='http://www.mariowiki.com/Smithy_Gang' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Smithy Gang</a> from invading a world.
I am really unsure about how to bring Angra Manyu into this. He's basically a sacrifice that's supposed to be the evils of the world, and it's KH canon that darkness being invited into peoples hearts makes them a heartless. So Angra Manyu was an innocent that had the darkness of others forced into him, becoming a powerful heartless? The Shadow Giants that Dark Sakura used were quite heartless-esque, weren't they? And because A.M was corrupted by the darkness of others, one of his special heartless abilities is that he can corrupt other people (ala Saber Alter.) Hey, if A.M (inside the grail) fell into darkness, would he try to become "the evils of all the worlds" by absorbing all the darkness he comes across? If so I have a potential final boss.

And Shirou could have been around 14 before Kiritsugu died if you believe him being over 18 in F/SN (yeah right.) So he'd be just the right age to go on a world jaunt. (I'll be having Shirou be 16 as of Heaven's Feel 5, though.)

nick012000 said:
nixofcyzerra said:
And her reaction to the Pride Lands...
<a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSdm0rE3nWU' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>King of the Wild</a>, Saber Lion!

As for her meeting Wart-Arthur, well, compare <a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=fO_3EO-Vd5o' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a> to <a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XCxr3Wgok' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>this</a>, and consider how she might react to the differences.
I can't figure out how she'd react. The sword in the stone ends only a little while after Arthur's coronation, so Saber might want to warn Arthur about Mordred and such, but it's also Disney, so lighter and softer. Arthur's also a boy, so she'd also be a little unnerved (as would anyone learning about a gender-bent version of them,) and possibly might even see Arthur as someone who has the potential to become a superior version of her that isn't "hampered by femininity." (Not my views, just trying to get into her head.) Plus, Merlin's a lot more helpful, and can visit the future, and he knows for a fact that Arthur will be famous. As she's just going to meet Merlin, I'm thinking introspective brooding with occasional questioning, finished with Saber extracting a promise from Merlin.

Also, another thought: the Gate of Babylon is opened by the use of a key-shaped sword, and thus quite possibly wields the Original Keyblade. Hilarity ensues when he joins up with the Heroes; all the treasures of the world are his by right, after all, including the world itself, and how dare those impudent Heartless attempt to destroy that which belongs to the King of Heroes?
Ah, balls. I completely forgot about "Gate of Babylon: King's Treasure!" Allright, allright. Maybe Spoiler Gilgamesh was a Keyblade Master who participated in the Keyblade War. We don't have a date for it except that the events surrounding have becomes legends, so saying it was around 5,000 years ago shouldn't be much of a problem. Or maybe Enkidu was the master, the Keybearer created by the Gods in preparation for the war! Yes, and Gilgamesh was on his way to becoming a Keybearer until Enkidu's death caused the start of his downfall. And the King's Treasure is either a weapon Gil had commissioned after seeing Enkidu's Keyblade, or his version of Soul Eater, a weapon which had begun to transform into a Keyblade but was interrupted when Gil fell to the dark side, so the only real Keyblade ability it has is opening the invisible door. /Spoiler

And I have plans for Gilgamesh. I'm thinking he starts scouring the worlds looking for kick-ass weapons that should really be in his hands. Spoiler King Triton is going to be really angry when Shirou shows up. /Spoiler

MastaofBitches said:
Which could lead to Gilgamesh and Shirou becoming Bro's down the road.
Hang on, let me go get my tin foil hat. Spoiler Spending time with Disney characters is going to make Shirou more idealistic than ever, and do wonderful things to his charisma stat. Gilgamesh will at some point recognise that Shirou reminds him of Enkidu, and although Gil will have no friend but Enkidu, that vow doesn't cover... apprentices. /Spoiler
nixofcyzerra said:
Lord of Bones said:
Who would be vulnerable...thing is that Trollmine is King of Uncomfortable Truths. He'd probably just stay neutral while he trolls people.
True, but how many Disney characters have uncomfortable truths that need to be pointed out to them? How would he troll Tarzan? Or Alice? (Kotomine meets The Chesire Cat and they get into a troll-off, spending hours just trolling each other, and then travelling around trolling others together in an epic trolling team-up. Magnificent.) Although, considering that he has a grail-heart, which is immune to any curse (darkness?) that's weaker than something of A.M power level... I need to think on that.

nick012000 said:
So, done a bit of reading on the wikis. If Shirou is the one replacing the Kingdom Hearts protagonist, who is the one replacing the seventh Princess? They're supposed to have no darkness in their hearts, so wouldn't pretty much every girl in the story be disqualified due to angst? Pretty much the only female that isn't an angsty mess to some degree is Taiga.

Putting Taiga as a Princess of Heart would be amusing, though. I mean, most of them are in relationships with their local protagonist, but Taiga's is genderbent, with her playing the role of the domestically-lazy husband who supports the family, while Shirou plays the wife's role, cooking and cleaning and looking after her.

Plus, she even is a Princess, even before the magical stuff gets involved! A Yakuza Princess! :D
Ah, sorry. I'm not replacing Destiny Islands with Fuyuki City. Master Xehanort is on his way to DI when he gets waylaid and ends up in Fuyuki, and if Ventus hadn't connected to Shirou, and manifested a Keyblade, he'd have continued over there so Ventus could live out his final days.

Terra will still have chosen Riku as his successor. Kairi is still the 7th PoH. Destiny Islands will still fall into darkness; it's just that nasu-earth will fall at around the same time. However, in this AU, Sora never connected to Ventus's heart. It's actually a point of contention as to whether Sora could have wielded a Keyblade at the start without Ven's heart's influence, as he never went through a Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony, but then the Kingdom Key (the keyblade of the realm of light, not just your average KB) in KH1 was technically Riku's in the beginning. It originally chose Riku, and went back to him later, but then Sora proved his heart was stronger and the Kingdom Key returned to him. Some argue that was partially due to Ven, but Sora didn't have any problems with the Keyblade after Ven's heart had migrated to Roxas.

Now, I'm of the opinion that Sora's heart was strong enough that he could potentially be a Keybearer, even without a ceremony, on account of being "the chosen one," but the presence of Ventus's heart made him "stand out" to the Kingdom Key when it was first looking to "jump ship" from Riku. Without Ventus's heart, Sora could potentially earn one anyway, either by spending enough time around a sucky Keybearer while being awesome and strong-hearted, impressing an existing Keyblade Master enough that they do the inheritance ceremony, or via some other method, but in my fic Spoilers There won't be time for any of that to happen, as Riku will vanish into the darkness, Kairi's heart will take refuge in Sora as in canon, but without the Keyblade, Sora will not be able to defeat the Destiny Island Darkside, and will be turned into a Heartless. However, driven by the need to know what happened to his friends, he'll become a Nobody, so we'll have a very weak Sora-shadow, and a Roxas who has all of Sora's memories, and looks more like him and not Ven. And he won't have any Keyblade access (though I suppose if Sora gets his body restored by Kairi or another PoH and then gets a KB, then proper Nobody Roxas might be able to steal it away from restored from Darkness Sora.) Kairi, as a PoH, cannot become a heartless, but Namine will still be brought into existence. Kairi's body will vanish into a distant realm or wherever it went to in canon, while her heart will be stuck travelling through the dark corridors untill... well, we'll get to that later. Riki will wind up in Hollow Bastion. He'll still have the Kingdom Key, but be unable to summon it, as the KK won't work for someone succumbing to darkness, but hasn't found a better bearer yet. Without seeing Sora make new friends and providing Maleficent with manipulation material, he'll wise up to her a fair bit sooner, and once he finds out what's actually happened to his friends, we'll have an even more severe case of the atoner on our hands than we did in canon End Spoilers
nixofcyzerra said:
Lord of Bones said:
In some cases, I can see the Troll King trolling the villains...like Clayton. Or Gaston.
Hmm... Clayton wants to shoot Gorillas and get rich. He is arrogant and totally convinced in his own abilities and invulnerability, though. I suppose Trol-lol-mine could manipulate him into a fight, but it... lacks something. And troll Gaston by setting him up to get beat up by strong females?

Besides, Kotomine's current goal is to find validation for his own existence via Angra Manyu being born into the world. He might look to the Darkness for something similar, or, under the right circumstances, he might return to his former abandoned wish; salvation from his tortured existence by becoming someone who can enjoy anything other than committing sins. He might look to those who have experimented on the heart to accomplish that. I'm undecided.

Actually, how likely is Kotomine to become a heartless? Is he the sort to feel strong feelings of revenge, hate, greed, or fear?

nick012000 said:
Kotomine meets Frollo. <a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyS3weMlxLA' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Hilarity</a> <a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfKHqYO8zl0' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>ensues</a>. Especially since Kotomine's order doesn't seem to have oaths of celibacy.
Oh man, that would be epic. Kotomine would destroy him. But HoND only appears in KH 3d, which isn't even out in Europe yet. I suppose I could have Troll-lol-lol-omine find that world earlier timeline-wise, but I wouldn't want to write it without playing the game first.
nixofcyzerra said:
nick012000 said:
Lord of Bones said:
Kotomine's actually fairly stoic, all things considered. It'd be more interesting if he wasn't a heartless; his own distortion is quite enough, I believe.
It seems to me that if you're going to link Angra Mainyu together with the Heartless, that it's entirely possible that Kotomine became a Nobody when the Grail gave him a (physical) heart made out of tainted Grail mud. Or, possibly, that his distortion was because he was already a Nobody, and the Grail gave him a Heart made from the Darkness of Angra Mainyu (because it's the fucking Holy Grail, and doing the impossible was the entire reason it was created in the first place). Or maybe his Heart was damaged somehow (hereditary curse?), and it resulted in him being a sort of pseudo-Nobody.
He can't be a Nobody, as he's shown to feel various emotions, throughout F/Z and F/SN. He just can't feel happiness except at the suffering of others. I'm thinking that his Heart just has a natural defect. It's just the way it is, and because that's the source of his problem, even if he were to be split into heartless and nobody, and then be restored by both parts of him being defeated, it wouldn't help at all. I may have Xemnas troll Kirei with this fact. I might even have a sub-plot that involves Kirei desperately searching for someone with extensive knowledge of hearts, in the hope that he can become normal, only for his hopes to be cruelly dashed.

Edit: I'm kind of wishing I'd had this idea a few months ago. KH 3D has introduced a stable freaking time loop by the villain that makes the events of almost every game all part of Xehanort's plan.

2nd edit: Have a sinking suspicion that Shirou would react to seeing a Keyblade in a similar way to how he reacted to seeing Ea.
nixofcyzerra said:
He-who-voted-for-Kodos said:
I kind of think Sakura may be pretty well suited to be a Riku-type character in this. She's got the shards of the tainted Grail as the original source to bring out the darkness, oodles of pent-up emotion, presumably a strong enough heart to use the darkness without succumbing to it and becoming a Heartless, and an established Dark form. I kind of see someone manipulating her like Terra and Riku: first it's "use this and you'll have the power to help those people," then after it's started affecting her, playing on her feelings about Rin and Shirou, which eventually causes her to go full Dark Sakura. At that point, kind of like HF, with Rin fighting to be a good big sister, and maybe some Keyblade-heart shenanigans, if Shirou is around. Afterwards, like Riku, she can use the darkness, but too much runs the risk of her going crazy again.
Spoilers Ahoy Malificient will come across Sakura (who, due to basically resisting darkness her whole life, will have withstood the effects of the dark corridor with little difficulty) and Rider, and will possibly see her as a potential replacement for Riku. Expect a Maleficent/Rider fight, and scenes with Maleficent doing her best to manipulate Sakura while Rider urges her not to listen. /Spoilers

Actually, I'm going to go a little off-topic here, and say that while I don't dislike Sakura as a character, and I admire her for enduring the torments of Zouken and Shinji as well as she did, I actually really dislike the Shirou/Sakura pairing. Aside from the fact that Shirou abandons his ideals completely in HF, Sakura places Shirou on a pedestal, and looks to him as a source of hope and strength, when she should be looking inside herself. A relationship between the two would have Sakura being too dependent on Shirou.

*Potential spoilers depending on how the rest of my plot goes* I might go with Riku becoming a bit of a mentor to Sakura, potentially even involving a romantic sub-plot. /Spoilers

Also, would Saber Alter and Saber Lily be like Saber's Heartless and Nobody, like Ansem and Xemnas were for Xehanort?
The only heartless that maintained a human form and mind was "Ansem," Seeker of Darkness, and it's believed that was due the fact that he became one on purpose. Saber obviously wouldn't do that, and has very little darkness in her heart, except for perhaps how she feels that someone else would have made a better king. If she did become a heartless, it would be a fairly weak one. Almost definitely a Shadow, or possibly a Neo-shadow or a Mega(not Giga)-shadow at most. If Saber Alter does make an appearance, it would probably only be a evil copy summoned for an original vs. evil clone fight. As for Saber Lily, she's supposed to be a version of Saber who became a queen instead of a king, so I'm not exactly sure how "Liratax" would look like her. I don't think I'll be writing Saber losing her heart, anyway.


MastaofBitches said:
He-who-voted-for-Kodos said:
MastaofBitches said:
nixofcyzerra said:
I might even have a sub-plot that involves Kirei desperately searching for someone with extensive knowledge of hearts, in the hope that he can become normal, only for his hopes to be cruelly dashed.
Does he even want to be normal after Fate/Zero?
On Kotomine, I'm not sure, but after he saw the fire at the end of F/Z, wasn't he kind of annoyed that he just got the final answer to his question, without seeing the process? Like, he just reached his destination, but wanted the journey, too? In that case, I can see him seeking out someone who understands the heart to try and find out why he is the way he is. Not trying to change, but wanting to know.
So, Kotomine would be hunting down Ansem/DiZ? Or maybe Mickey?
"ùSatisfied? Kirei.ö

The priest clutched his stomach, exhausted and breathing rapidly from his laughter; Gilgamesh asked in a calm voice.

"No, not enough. Just this is not enough.ö

Kirei wiped away the tears from his maniacal laughter, and shook his head.

"True ù I have finally found my answer in this life that is full of question marks. This is a very great improvement. However, this doesnÆt solve any problems. I only bypassed the process and method of solving the question to arrive directly at the answer. Just like that, how will you have me acknowledge it, and even then what is there for me to acknowledge?ö

If God is the Creator of All Things, then to all souls, æhappinessÆ is truth.

But now, there truly existed a soul that had turned its back on morality and yet obtained happiness. Kirei had also only just begun to believe that this soul was no one else but himself.

In that case, the definition of good and evil, as well as the very existence of truth, had created a contradiction. This contradiction could not be overlooked.

"Within the equation from which this strange answer is derived, there should exist a reason that is simple and easily understood. No, there is definitely one. Then what exactly is ità I must clarify it, I must find it. Even if it takes my whole life, I want to understand.ö
So yeah, he definitely wants to understand why someone like him can exist, but I personally think (and please tell me if you disagree) that if he encountered the possibility that he could be altered into someone who could obtain happiness without having to turn their back on morality, he would be at least a little tempted. Ansem the Wise knows more about manipulating and quantifying the heart (or at least trying to) than Mickey, so if Kirei found out about the experiments that created the Emblem Heartless, he'd certainly try to seek out Ansem (whether he finds the real one or the fake, or both, is still undecided in my mind.)

MastaofBitches said:
He-who-voted-for-Kodos said:
MastaofBitches said:
nixofcyzerra said:
Have a sinking suspicion that Shirou would react to seeing a Keyblade in a similar way to how he reacted to seeing Ea.
If he did, he'd be in considerable pain until his body can forcefully understand how to copy it, or suppress the pain it causes.
I'm not sure a Keyblade would be quite like Ea. Maybe more like Excalibur, in that it doesn't make his brain blue-screen, but he can't replicate it. Ooh! If Shirou and Archer started synchronizing, would that read like he has two hearts and let him use two Keyblades?
Would Archer even have a heart? He's a spirit that can take on physical form, sure, but he's till not real. He might have a copy of a heart, but I doubt he has a real one.

Maybe just go with Avalon or UBW bullshit? Or he could always just dual wield the Keyblade and a Noble Phantasm?
Upon reflection, I've decide that a Keyblade won't be impossible to trace like Ea, but instead just really really hard. As in around the same level of difficulty as the Jeweled Sword of Zelretch, without the blueprints. A first attempt to trace a Keyblade without assistance will end up with a completely lousy copy that's pretty flimsy and practically powerless, to the point where it can only unlock mundane locks. However, Shirou will have an advantage that Archer doesn't, Spoiler and will project a decent imitation of Ven's Keyblade (that he saw in his dreams) Wayward Wind a couple of times before gaining the Kingdom Key when it leaves Riku, for a reason that is explained in a spoiler below.

As for Archer, well, here's the thing. In the rules I've set down for my cross-over, the Nasu-earth, in every dimension, is a world which is part of the original world that fell apart when Darkness entered the hearts of it's residents. Spoiler I might even have nasu-earth be the world that was created by the largest fragment of the original world, which is why nasu-earth has a will when none of the other worlds are shown to have one, and also might have the sundering of the original world be related to the end of the Age of Gods in some way, I'm not sure yet. /Spoilers However, this is the only dimension that had the special world barrier created by Gaia, that in every other dimension hid nasu-earth from travellers between the worlds, damaged by Master Xehanort when he arrives while preparing for Ven's death.

This is an extremely roundabout way of pointing out that the Throne of Heroes is the same as it is in F/SN, although I suppose there might be heroes from other worlds (that don't have Nasu-earth counterparts) in it. This, combined with the fact that the Throne only ever has one version of a Hero, means that Archer is this fic won't be an alternate future version of Keybearer! Shirou, but canon Heroic Spirit EMIYA. And he won't have ever been summoned by Gaia as a CG, or had a copy summoned as a Servant, outside of the Nasu-Earth world (which I really need a name for.) So Archer's going to be as confused over what's going as everybody else. As for being a copy of his ToH's version, the Riku Replica was stated to have had a heart, so I see no problem with Servants having them too, or perhaps a connection to the originals. However, Archer probably won't obtain a Keyblade of his own at all. He may, however, gain some ability at tracing them, but then he does already have a pretty good arsenal. Spoiler Like I said, I'm going to have tracing a Keyblade being exceptionally difficult, as it involves some concepts that are hard for people to fully understand, much like a Reality Marble. However, Ven's presence will give Shirou an instinctive understanding of some of the 7 or 8 steps of projecting a blade from UBW's into the real world, that Archer will lack. This is for one very important reason. If Archer figures out how to trace Keyblades, all he has to do is visit the Keyblade Graveyard, which is an actual world, and he'd become so hax he could probably solo every other character, heroes and villains alike.
nixofcyzerra said:
MastaofBitches said:
nixofcyzerra said:
So yeah, he definitely wants to understand why someone like him can exist, but I personally think (and please tell me if you disagree) that if he encountered the possibility that he could be altered into someone who could obtain happiness without having to turn their back on morality, he would be at least a little tempted.
It would depend on how much of the "old" him was left after 10 years of exposure to Gilgamesh, who has been encouraging Kirei's descent into darkness.
Perhaps him being curious would be better, and the possibility becomes more tempting as he investigates, although he is resistant to the change in his ambitions, and any expressed desire will be tentative, more easily ignored at first. He'll have been separated from Gilgamesh as well (Gil will be busy elsewhere,) travelling on his own, making a "religious pilgrimage." Actually, let me explain further. Spoiler involving character development: The biggest problem I have with Kotomine, the thing that bothers me the most, is that he didn't exactly have a real choice in becoming who he did. He was f'ed in the head from birth, a born sociopath. He was "primed" to walk down the path of villainy. I'm undecided which path I wish to take, but I want Kirei to reach the point where he'll either choose to be a villain intentionally, or have a "never had a choice" moment where he essentially surrenders to his nature. /Spoilers.
nixofcyzerra said:
Ansem the Wise knows more about manipulating and quantifying the heart (or at least trying to) than Mickey, so if Kirei found out about the experiments that created the Emblem Heartless, he'd certainly try to seek out Ansem (whether he finds the real one or the fake, or both, is still undecided in my mind.)
And I was so looking forward to Kirei trolling Mickey..
How would Kirei troll Mickey? What uncomfortable truth does his majesty fail to acknowledge? What logical fallacy does Mickey not register? Give me some raw material to use and I'll make a scene and have the two characters meet. Or! I could have an Omake corner where Trollomine troll a random KH character suggested by the readers!

nixofcyzerra said:
Upon reflection, I've decide that a Keyblade won't be impossible to trace like Ea, but instead just really really hard. As in around the same level of difficulty as the Jeweled Sword of Zelretch, without the blueprints.
So, something he'll have to work at to get a good copy.
Well, like I said, Spoiler Shirou will get a shortcut by harbouring Ven, while Archer will have to do it the long way, but pretty much.

nixofcyzerra said:
A first attempt to trace a Keyblade without assistance will end up with a completely lousy copy that's pretty flimsy and practically powerless, to the point where it can only unlock mundane locks.
That's still pretty useful.
Yeah, but not so much in a fight. Or if you can just pick the lock, or kick the door in. And most nasu-magi can probably manage a door-unlocking spell in their sleep.

nixofcyzerra said:
However, Shirou will have an advantage that Archer doesn't, Spoiler and will project a decent imitation of Ven's Keyblade (that he saw in his dreams) Wayward Wind a couple of times before gaining the Kingdom Key when it leaves Riku, for a reason that is explained in a spoiler below.
While I can understand the choice, would Wayward Wind really work with Shirou's style? It's a reverse grip Keyblade, after all.
This will be an actual plot point, although as Shirou will Spoiler project Wayward Wind with a degree of Ven's skill,/Spoiler it won't be as much a problem as you're thinking, but yeah, he will struggle with the issue at first.
nixofcyzerra said:
MastaofBitches said:
nixofcyzerra said:
MastaofBitches said:
nixofcyzerra said:
So yeah, he definitely wants to understand why someone like him can exist, but I personally think (and please tell me if you disagree) that if he encountered the possibility that he could be altered into someone who could obtain happiness without having to turn their back on morality, he would be at least a little tempted.
It would depend on how much of the "old" him was left after 10 years of exposure to Gilgamesh, who has been encouraging Kirei's descent into darkness.
Perhaps him being curious would be better, and the possibility becomes more tempting as he investigates, although he is resistant to the change in his ambitions, and any expressed desire will be tentative, more easily ignored at first. He'll have been separated from Gilgamesh as well (Gil will be busy elsewhere,) travelling on his own, making a "religious pilgrimage." Actually, let me explain further. Spoiler involving character development: The biggest problem I have with Kotomine, the thing that bothers me the most, is that he didn't exactly have a real choice in becoming who he did. He was f'ed in the head from birth, a born sociopath. He was "primed" to walk down the path of villainy. I'm undecided which path I wish to take, but I want Kirei to reach the point where he'll either choose to be a villain intentionally, or have a "never had a choice" moment where he essentially surrenders to his nature. /Spoilers.
That sounds like it could be genuinely interesting to read... Although he should probably meet a few other evil priests... And how exactly is Kotomine getting to other worlds anyway? Gilgamesh can probablly use his ship to travel the normal way, nut what about Kirei?
I think that Frollo is the only evil religious person shown in all the KH worlds shown so far, AFAIK. And Kirei will eventually end up in Traverse town a little while after Shirou. He'll spend a little more time in the darkness than most, and will figure out how to use the corridors of darkness fairly quickly. He is a fairly proficient magus, and he's been exposed to Angra Manyu, so I don't see a problem with him having an... affinity to darkness. Furthermore, he was an executor for the burial agency, where an iron will is required as protection from possession by demons, and it's likely that his bishop-class priests robe has some form of protective quality. The combination of all these factors means that he's practically immune to darkness exposure. He might acquire a Black Coat at some point by mugging an Organisation member. Depends on whether I can make the scene funny enough.

nixofcyzerra said:
nixofcyzerra said:
Ansem the Wise knows more about manipulating and quantifying the heart (or at least trying to) than Mickey, so if Kirei found out about the experiments that created the Emblem Heartless, he'd certainly try to seek out Ansem (whether he finds the real one or the fake, or both, is still undecided in my mind.)
And I was so looking forward to Kirei trolling Mickey...
How would Kirei troll Mickey? What uncomfortable truth does his majesty fail to acknowledge? What logical fallacy does Mickey not register? Give me some raw material to use and I'll make a scene and have the two characters meet. Or! I could have an Omake corner where Trollomine troll a random KH character suggested by the readers!
Beats me. I've only played Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, and a little of Ven's story in Birth By Sleep so I don't really know anything about Mickey's motivation in the games.
I've played 1, 2, 358/2 days, and Re:coded, but I'm not buying a PSP just for one game. I'd also buy the final mixes and re: chain of memories if they'd just release them in Europe! (Seriously, what did Europe ever do to Square Enix?) Oh, and I have copies of some of the manga.

At first Mickey was really biased towards the light, believing that everything that resided in darkness needed to be wiped out. Then Riku taught him that light and darkness are in balance with each other, and one cannot exist without the other. So maybe I could steal a little from Star Wars and it's arguments over the force. Kirei calling Mickey a hypocrite, stating that he suddenly thinks that darkness isn't so bad because his friend uses it, yet he still fights against it. Double standard. Or something.

nixofcyzerra said:
nixofcyzerra said:
Upon reflection, I've decide that a Keyblade won't be impossible to trace like Ea, but instead just really really hard. As in around the same level of difficulty as the Jeweled Sword of Zelretch, without the blueprints.
So, something he'll have to work at to get a good copy.
Well, like I said, Spoiler Shirou will get a shortcut by harbouring Ven, while Archer will have to do it the long way /Spoilers, but pretty much.
Wouldn't the bleedover allow Archer to get the same knowledge Shirou does?
I'm going to say no. I don't think it's ever stated that Archer received anything from Shirou in F/SN. I don't know whether it was because Archer was the one from the future, or whether it was because he was the elder or had higher od levels, but only Shirou had knowledge flow into him, AFAIK. Unless Archer was somehow spiritually assaulted by Shirou's determination or something. Furthermore, even if the bleed-over was two-directional, it still wouldn't work. Like I said, Spoiler Ven's presence will give Shirou an instinctive understanding of some of the 7 or 8 steps of projecting a Keyblade from UBW's into the real world. However, if Ven's heart left Shirou, then so would the instinctive understanding. So if Archer copied Shirou's knowledge, it would go like this: Right, step x: Do this. Wait, how the hell are you supposed to do that? /Spoiler I will probably include a better written explanation of this in a scene.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#2
nixofcyzerra said:
MastaofBitches said:
nixofcyzerra said:
A first attempt to trace a Keyblade without assistance will end up with a completely lousy copy that's pretty flimsy and practically powerless, to the point where it can only unlock mundane locks.
That's still pretty useful.
Yeah, but not so much in a fight. Or if you can just pick the lock, or kick the door in. And most nasu-magi can probably manage a door-unlocking spell in their sleep.
Although I doubt Shirou can. But, if I'm understanding this right, he'll have his own Keyblade anyway. Why can't he just Dual Wield a Keyblade and a regular Sword/Noble Phantasm?
Well, yeah, obviously Shirou can't. He can't even fix a window. Although he could Structurally Grasp the lock, which would make picking it a snap. And Spoilers yes, Shirou will eventually gain his own Keyblade. /Spoiler Now, in KH, the ability to dual-wield Keyblades is called Synch Blade. Sora originally uses the KB that was meant for Riku. Ven's Keyblade does not appear in KH1 at all. When Sora turned himself into a heartless and Roxas was formed, Ven's heart migrated to Roxas. Roxas uses Sora's Keyblade for most of 358/2 days, but he could only use it because he had Ven's heart within him. Incidentally, Xion also uses Sora's Keyblade. Sometimes at the same time as Roxas (this bit confuses me a little, but whatever.) Towards the end of the game, after Roxas absorbs Xion, Xion's "death" awoke Ven's Keyblade inside of Roxas. That's why he can use two when fighting Riku and Axel, and why Sora can after Roxas merges with him.

This basically shows that Ven's Keyblade is seriously dormant. It takes a heck of a lot for Ven's Keyblade to "awaken." And that's why Spoiler Ven's Keyblade will emerge for Shirou only when it's desperately needed. /Spoiler Shirou will at first make use of traced Keyblades, until Spoiler he gets Riku's, without either Shirou or Riku being aware of that fact. However, Riku will eventually gets that Keyblade back and keep it. Shirou will then again make use of traced KB's and later awaken Ven's heart. However, Ven's heart will at some point want to get back to his body and soul. When Ventus awakens, he will perform the Inheritance Ceremony on Shirou, who will finally gain his own Keyblade. /Spoiler Shirou will spend most of the fic as a "fake Keybearer" (you see what I did there?) As he won't have sync blade at any point, he can't use 2 KB's but he will trace other blades in his off-hand, although NP might be hard to come by at first. Remember, Shirou's world will fall into darkness around day 4 or 5 of the UBW's route. At that point, I'm pretty sure his armoury consists of mundane swords, including the fearsome Tora-Shinai, Caliburn, the sword Archer modified and used against Beserker, Beserker's rock sword, Rider's knife and Gae Bolg.. And if he saw them properly during the 1st Archer/Lancer fight, Kanshou, and Bakuya. He can't look inside UBW yet, as he doesn't even know he has a RM, and he can't project many of those with any skill. Or at all. Day 5 of UBW, he reinforces a chair leg when fighting Rin, and he doesn't even learn the right way of using his existing circuits for another 2 days after that. Projecting the one Keyblade will be good enough for a while, so the 1st time he'll even try to project a second weapon will Spoiler be against an opponent he can't beat with just one sword. I'm thinking maybe Cloud. /Spoiler

nixofcyzerra said:
nixofcyzerra said:
However, Shirou will have an advantage that Archer doesn't, Spoiler and will project a decent imitation of Ven's Keyblade (that he saw in his dreams) Wayward Wind a couple of times before gaining the Kingdom Key when it leaves Riku /Spoiler, for a reason that is explained in a spoiler below.
While I can understand the choice, would Wayward Wind really work with Shirou's style? It's a reverse grip Keyblade, after all.
This will be an actual plot point, although as Shirou will Spoiler project Wayward Wind with a degree of Ven's skill, /Spoiler it won't be as much a problem as you're thinking, but yeah, he will struggle with the issue at first.
Why does he even need to trace it? Can't he just summon the real one by borrowing it from Ven? I mean, Ven's probably somewhere inside UBW.
Like I said, Ven's Keyblade is a seriously heavy sleeper. As for UBW... erm, I hadn't even thought about that. I'm going to say no. UBW is essentially a part of Shirou's soul that serves as an armoury. Ven's dormant heart is connected to Shirou's (...no homo) elsewhere. And Wayward Wind isn't either, although a copy has been ever since Shirou 1st dreamt of it.


MWkillkenny84 said:
nick012000 said:
Lord of Bones said:
In some cases, I can see the Troll King trolling the villains...like Clayton. Or Gaston.
Kotomine meets Frollo. Hilarity ensues. Especially since Kotomine's order doesn't seem to have oaths of celibacy.
Kirei trolling Gaston?
FUND IT!
Make the False Priest show him all the errors of his ways, and even a "Even a monster can be a better man than you. So, what this little truth make of you, Gaston?" or something similar.
Oh, I like this idea.
"My my, such courage, such devotion... How very gallant. Quite amusing, wouldn't you agree, Gaston? After all, were a man fair of face such as yourself to perform similar acts, fervent admiration from all would be the reward. Every man or woman in the land would know of you. History would remember the name of Gaston. Eternal Glory would have, could have, been yours."

"But instead it is one with the appearance of a monster, one who was feared, shunned, hounded by those around him, that displayed such qualities. Will such a truth be recorded in the annals of history? I doubt it. Mankind prefers to forget such uncomfortable truths. A shame. He would have been an impressive addition to the Throne. Yet... the failure of humanity to accurately record events does not change the inescapable truth that one you call beast has proven himself your better in matters of courage and valour."

"So tell me Gaston. If he is a beast, what does that make you, who has been proven his inferior?"
The only problem is where I can set it. Gaston doesn't appear in KH. Is there a place in the film storyline where the events of KH1, 358/2 days, and KH2 can be set? Sora sleeps for a year between 1 and 2. Does Belle stay in the castle for that long in the film? Did all the heartless showing up scare all the villagers away from the castle when they're about to storm it? Is Gaston sitting in an alehouse brooding, too afraid to face the "demons?"

Frollo?
In this, I pity the Inquisitor.
Kirei WILL show him how you make someone suffer.
Using HIM as a guinea pig.
Frollo is a hypocrite. He proclaims himself above sin, yet he lusts after Esmeralda. He calls himself a man of faith, yet he has no compassion for other people. Kotomine merely has to show Frollo his true self, and then, when Frollo becomes aware that Kotomine now understands him, has evidence of his true nature, and therefore has near-complete power over him... Kotomine shows the real Frollo to the people of Paris, including those who have power over Frollo politically, costing him his prized position, and the respect of every citizen of Paris. "That is how you destroy such a man."

Right, I need one more piece of information to finalise my plot, and then I'll actually start fleshing out the first few chapters and get them to a standard where I won't feel ashamed posting them. I've already decided as to who of the 5th Heaven's Feel participants survive, and how. I've also concluded that as Crimson Moon made a deal with the Gaia to live on it, anything descended from CM in any way is bound to the Earth (Zelretch goes to alternate Earths, but not different planets,) and therefore cannot leave the Nasu-verse Earth when it's heart is devoured.

However, can anyone think of any other Nasu-verse inhabitants who could potentially:

survive their world falling into darkness, either by having Beast-class strength of will, or through some other method?

become Nobodies?
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#3
MastaofBitches said:
nixofcyzerra said:
MastaofBitches said:
That sounds like it could be genuinely interesting to read... Although he should probably meet a few other evil priests... And how exactly is Kotomine getting to other worlds anyway? Gilgamesh can probablly use his ship to travel the normal way, nut what about Kirei?
I think that Frollo is the only evil religious person shown in all the KH worlds shown so far, AFAIK. And Kirei will eventually end up in Traverse town a little while after Shirou. He'll spend a little more time in the darkness than most, and will figure out how to use the corridors of darkness fairly quickly. He is a fairly proficient magus, and he's been exposed to Angra Manyu, so I don't see a problem with him having an... affinity to darkness. Furthermore, he was an executor for the burial agency, where an iron will is required as protection from possession by demons, and it's likely that his bishop-class priests robe has some form of protective quality. The combination of all these factors means that he's practically immune to darkness exposure. He might acquire a Black Coat at some point by mugging an Organisation member. Depends on whether I can make the scene funny enough.
Is Kirei going to be the secondary protagonst or something? Or is he filling the "Riku" niche?
Shirou will be the main protagonist, with either Donald and Goofy or Saber being in the same scenes as him most of the time. The other masters and servants will make appearances. Riku will still be active, but will walk a different path due to Sora's fate and the fact that he's got no real connection to Shirou. At first, anyway. Kirei will have a sub-plot that will set him up as a villain. I'm thinking I'll either use interludes, F/SN style, or flash-backs, KH style, in certain chapters to show what other characters are getting upto.

nixofcyzerra said:
Beats me. I've only played Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, and a little of Ven's story in Birth By Sleep so I don't really know anything about Mickey's motivation in the games.
I've played 1, 2, 358/2 days, and Re:coded, but I'm not buying a PSP just for one game. I'd also buy the final mixes and re: chain of memories if they'd just release them in Europe! (Seriously, what did Europe ever do to Square Enix?) Oh, and I have copies of some of the manga.

At first Mickey was really biased towards the light, believing that everything that resided in darkness needed to be wiped out. Then Riku taught him that light and darkness are in balance with each other, and one cannot exist without the other. So maybe I could steal a little from Star Wars and it's arguments over the force. Kirei calling Mickey a hypocrite, stating that he suddenly thinks that darkness isn't so bad because his friend uses it, yet he still fights against it. Double standard. Or something.
Sounds like something Kirei would be able to exploit.
Maybe, but really it would just be a different, perhaps more eloquent version of what Xemnas says near the end of KH2.
Xemnas: Denizens of light, answer this: Why do you hate the darkness?
Mickey: Aw, we don't hate it. It's just kinda... scary. But the world's made of light and darkness. You can't have one without the other, 'cause darkness is half of everything. Sorta makes ya wonder why we are scared of the dark.
Riku: It's because of who's lurking inside it.
And he would just admit that he was wrong about the Darkness until Riku "showed him the light" (pun intended.) I mean, King Mickey just isn't the sort of fellow you can screw with that easily.

Oh, in other news, I've gone on-line and bought a PSP (with 3 games I'll trade in) on Ebay for ú35, and a copy of BBS for ú15, which I thought was a pretty good deal. So rejoice, Kingdom Hearts fans! I'll hopefully be able to gain a degree of accuracy for the elements introduced in BBS that you just can't get by reading wiki articles.

nixofcyzerra said:
Well, yeah, obviously Shirou can't. He can't even fix a window. Although he could Structurally Grasp the lock, which would make picking it a snap. And Spoilers yes, Shirou will eventually gain his own Keyblade. /Spoiler Now, in KH, the ability to dual-wield Keyblades is called Synch Blade. Sora originally uses the KB that was meant for Riku. Ven's Keyblade does not appear in KH1 at all. When Sora turned himself into a heartless and Roxas was formed, Ven's heart migrated to Roxas. Roxas uses Sora's Keyblade for most of 358/2 days, but he could only use it because he had Ven's heart within him. Incidentally, Xion also uses Sora's Keyblade. Sometimes at the same time as Roxas (this bit confuses me a little, but whatever.) Towards the end of the game, after Roxas absorbs Xion, Xion's "death" awoke Ven's Keyblade inside of Roxas. That's why he can use two when fighting Riku and Axel, and why Sora can after Roxas merges with him.
I Thought Sora could only Dual Wield while in a Drive Form?
He is only shown dual-wielding in drive forms in the game, aside from about 10 seconds at the end of the fight against Xemnas, but Nomura has stated in an interview that Sora can dual-wield without needing either a drive form or his KH2 clothes.

nixofcyzerra said:
This basically shows that Ven's Keyblade is seriously dormant. It takes a heck of a lot for Ven's Keyblade to "awaken." And that's why Spoiler Ven's Keyblade will emerge for Shirou only when it's desperately needed. /Spoiler Shirou will at first make use of traced Keyblades, until Spoiler he gets Riku's, without either Shirou or Riku being aware of that fact.
How? Riku's on Destiny Island, and there are far closer hearts of Power for the Keyblade to migrate too, when Riku falls to Darkness.
Riku will probably be confronting Shirou for the 1st time when the transfer happens. Probably at the same time he met with Sora in canon, the 2nd visit to Traverse Town. And as for other hearts of Power, who else is around who has either gone through a Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony, or can get around that rule by harbouring the heart of a Keybearer? The only other person qualified is Kairi, and her heart will already be within Sora when he loses to the Darkside Heartless.

nixofcyzerra said:
Why does he even need to trace it? Can't he just summon the real one by borrowing it from Ven? I mean, Ven's probably somewhere inside UBW.
Like I said, Ven's Keyblade is a seriously heavy sleeper. As for UBW... erm, I hadn't even thought about that. I'm going to say no. UBW is essentially a part of Shirou's soul that serves as an armoury. Ven's dormant heart is connected to Shirou's (...no homo) elsewhere. And Wayward Wind isn't either, although a copy has been ever since Shirou 1st dreamt of it.
Pretty sure he wouldn't need Sync blade to dual wield Keyblade's he's traced, since they would be connected to UBW.
Well, KH canon has Synch Blade as an actual required ability to use 2 Keyblades at the same time. Seeing as you don't need special training in real life to pick up 2 swords at the same time, and I don't think Braig, Lea, or their Nobody counterparts need Synch Blade to use both of their weapons at once (which they do summon in a manner similar to how a Keybearer summons their Keyblade,) it must be some characteristic of the Keyblade that, unless the Keybearer has synch blade, it's one per customer. Otherwise, Ventus, Terra and Aqua could have grabbed another Keyblade for themselves at the Keyblade Graveyard and just carried it around. And seeing as how Shirou's projections replicate all of the original blade's qualities... That said, Spoiler this rule doesn't apply to willing Keyblades around in UBW. /Spoiler.

nixofcyzerra said:
Frollo?
In this, I pity the Inquisitor.
Kirei WILL show him how you make someone suffer.
Using HIM as a guinea pig.
Frollo is a hypocrite. He proclaims himself above sin, yet he lusts after Esmeralda. He calls himself a man of faith, yet he has no compassion for other people. Kotomine merely has to show Frollo his true self, and then, when Frollo becomes aware that Kotomine now understands him, has evidence of his true nature, and therefore has near-complete power over him... Kotomine shows the real Frollo to the people of Paris, including those who have power over Frollo politically, costing him his prized position, and the respect of every citizen of Paris. "That is how you destroy such a man."
Sounds interesting, but do be careful about "over filling" your fic.
I'll probably only have/show Kirei visiting worlds that will help with his character development. Like I said, earlier, I might have an Omake corner, or maybe a side-story series, that has Kotomine trolling various Disney characters, amongst other things.

Say Mob, could you check the last few paragraphs at the bottom of the previous post, and let me know what you think?
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#4
Lorelei would survive. Her family would likely be near fully intact.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#5
...if Shirou and company (and Kotomine) were dumped in Atlantica, what forms would they have?

Obviously Gil would have something suitable, like a megalodon, or a mosasaur. In gold. And then proceeds to dismiss Triton as being unworthy of basking in his presence.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#6
Kirei would be some form of shark that doesn't look like a shark. or any type of safe looking but dangerous fish.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#7
zeebee1 said:
Lorelei would survive. Her family would likely be near fully intact.
Really? Considering her family's obsessive hatred of Vamps, I'd think that they'd find it difficult to resist the Darkness, and although some of them might meet the strength criteria, I doubt any of them are good-hearted to become Summon Gems. They, and the majority of the Mage's association, Atlas, etc., will take out countless Heartless before Nasu-Earth's Heart is devoured, but corridors of Darkness won't open near the Clock Tower or any other "magus site" as I believe that only happens in the general area of a world's Keyhole (which is why we never run into anyone else from Destiny Islands in the games.) Nasu-Earth's (and I really need to come up with a better world name. Maybe just Fuyuki City?) Keyhole will be in Fuyuki. Many nasu-magi will probably become powerful Nobodies, though. And thanks for offering a reply to my question, Zeebee. Can you think of anyone else who could potentially survive?

Lord of Bones said:
...if Shirou and company (and Kotomine) were dumped in Atlantica, what forms would they have?

Obviously Gil would have something suitable, like a megalodon, or a mosasaur. In gold. And then proceeds to dismiss Triton as being unworthy of basking in his presence.
Shirou will be a Merman due to "main character status." Donald and Goofy will be the same as canon. Now, S,D+G are actually transformed by Donald's magic in KH1, and their Yen Sid clothes in KH2, so any other character who visits Atlantica won't transform unless they have access to similar magic. However, if they did:

Kirei would be a pufferfish, more specifically, Takifugu. A fish that's deadly poisonous seems to fit him.

Gil would be, as LoB suggested, some form of ancient sea creature (though not to scale) in Golden Armour.

Saber would either be a Lionfish or a Leafy Seadragon, due to her connection to both animals, and Donald's magic having a sense of humour.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#8
I could see Rin as a dolphin due to the similarities; elegant, beautiful, and violent maniacs.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#9
Lord of Bones said:
I could see Rin as a dolphin due to the similarities; elegant, beautiful, and violent maniacs.
Wasn't there a "Mana Transfer Dolphin" in the UBW anime?


In other news, I've been browsing the Kingdom Hearts section of TVTropes in the last couple of days (and it has yet to ruin my life, but stay tuned) and I've discovered <a href='http://heartstation.org/?p=2249' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>a link to an English translation of the 358/2 Days Ultimania 365 Days Chart.</a> A time-line that explains who was doing what on specific days. According to it, 15 days pass between Sora being restored into a human form by Kairi, and Sora, Donald and Goofy defeating Ansem, Seeker of Darkness. 15 days. What were they doing for all that time? Level Grinding? How long does the trip by Gummi ship take, anyway?

And it gets worse. Sora arrives at Castle Oblivion on Day 24 of the 358/2 days time-line. He beats Marluxia on day 49. It takes 25 days for S,D+G to make it through C.O.

This throws the time-line in my head of just how long it took Sora to complete the events of KH1 right off. So I ask all of you, based on the above time scale, just how much time passed from the start of KH1 to Roxas's "birth?"
 

Archanon

Well-Known Member
#10
Of those who might survive, being strong-willed (ie named characters) but not descended from Crimson Moon or with openings the Darkness could exploit:

Aozaki Aoko (possibly Touko as well, possibly not)
Tohno Shiki (possibly, though the Nanaya side might interact with the Darkness, and I don't know much Tsukihime anyway)
Waver Velvet (because Iskander is a bro and toughened him up)
Bazett Fraga McRemitz (depending on timeline and how canon hollow ataraxia is)
Magical Princess Phantas-Moon (haha not really. But it would be hilarious.)
Mikiya Kokutou (I know even less about Kara no Kyoukai, but the wiki says his Origin is "one that will never hurt others, more so than anyone else." And yes, I know the wiki is unreliable. So this is very much a maybe. Also he may not exist in the correct timeline.)
Miyu (Prisma Illya. Again, totally different timeline, so depends on how you want to play it.)




...feel free to pick this list apart.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#11
Archanon said:
Of those who might survive, being strong-willed (ie named characters) but not descended from Crimson Moon or with openings the Darkness could exploit:

Aozaki Aoko (possibly Touko as well, possibly not)
Tohno Shiki (possibly, though the Nanaya side might interact with the Darkness, and I don't know much Tsukihime anyway)
Waver Velvet (because Iskander is a bro and toughened him up)
Bazett Fraga McRemitz (depending on timeline and how canon hollow ataraxia is)
Magical Princess Phantas-Moon (haha not really. But it would be hilarious.)
Mikiya Kokutou (I know even less about Kara no Kyoukai, but the wiki says his Origin is "one that will never hurt others, more so than anyone else." And yes, I know the wiki is unreliable. So this is very much a maybe. Also he may not exist in the correct timeline.)
Miyu (Prisma Illya. Again, totally different timeline, so depends on how you want to play it.)




...feel free to pick this list apart.
Gilgamesh almost certainly would as well, given how he got immersed in all of humanity's evil without being corrupted (at least according to his account of it). Ryougi Shiki could just kill the darkness inside her heart, once she realises what's happening, as could Tohno Shiki, though he might die from the strain of doing so. Aozaki Aoko almost definitely could, if only by shunting the corruption into the future.
 

MWkillkenny84

Well-Known Member
#12
I think every being of the Nasu!Earth will be able to srugh off the corruption, IF they have sufficient magical power/willpower/ego/connections with supernatural sources.
The only ones with problems on that planets are the mundanes. As always.
 

Archanon

Well-Known Member
#13
nick012000 said:
Archanon said:
Of those who might survive, being strong-willed (ie named characters) but not descended from Crimson Moon or with openings the Darkness could exploit:

Aozaki Aoko (possibly Touko as well, possibly not)
Tohno Shiki (possibly, though the Nanaya side might interact with the Darkness, and I don't know much Tsukihime anyway)
Waver Velvet (because Iskander is a bro and toughened him up)
Bazett Fraga McRemitz (depending on timeline and how canon hollow ataraxia is)
Magical Princess Phantas-Moon (haha not really. But it would be hilarious.)
Mikiya Kokutou (I know even less about Kara no Kyoukai, but the wiki says his Origin is "one that will never hurt others, more so than anyone else." And yes, I know the wiki is unreliable. So this is very much a maybe. Also he may not exist in the correct timeline.)
Miyu (Prisma Illya. Again, totally different timeline, so depends on how you want to play it.)




...feel free to pick this list apart.
Gilgamesh almost certainly would as well, given how he got immersed in all of humanity's evil without being corrupted (at least according to his account of it). Ryougi Shiki could just kill the darkness inside her heart, once she realises what's happening, as could Tohno Shiki, though he might die from the strain of doing so. Aozaki Aoko almost definitely could, if only by shunting the corruption into the future.
I was specifically leaving off characters directly from Fate/stay night such as Gilgamesh because they've been addressed already.

I'll acknowledge Ryougi Shiki as a possibility - I can't recall why I left her off in the first place - though again, that depends on timeline, as she's canonically incompatible with Tohno Shiki.

It would utterly defeat the purpose of listing characters who would survive if Tohno Shiki would die from what he had to do to survive.


Did I not include Aoko? Why do you even feel the need to mention her if she's already on the list and you agree with her being there?
 
#14
Well, Ryougi and Mikiya- that is, the ones from KnK- live in another universe from FSN and Tsukihime. So, while it would technically be possible for Ryougi Shiki and Mikiya Kokutou to survive the fall of FSN/Tsukihime Nasu-Earth (for which I suggest the basic Gaia as a name), they wouldn't be the same as the ones from KnK. Not to say they wouldn't be badass, just not the same badass.

On the note of who would be able to survive, outside of FSN and removing those that seem like they'd be bound to Gaia (Primate Murder and anything descended from Type-Moon), I would expect a fair few of the higher-ups within the Mages' Association and Church to survive. Maleficent is supposed to not be overwhelmed by the Darkness because she's looking to dominate it, right? I would expect that kind of thing from magi. And I would expect both groups to have serious stuff to keep their minds under their own control.

From Tsukihime, I don't actually know much about it, but I would imagine that at least Kohaku would wind up falling to darkness. Then there's the question of how it would affect half-demons like Akiha. For Shiki...I'm actually not entirely convinced he'd survive. Not because he wouldn't survive the world falling apart, but because of the Heartless. His ingrained instincts are supposed to have him attack inhuman things, right? It's why he cut up Arcueid. Why wouldn't that lead him to go after the Heartless? But his knife is just a knife, and his MEoDP are supposed to be more focused on the death of living things. So, would they even work on Heartless, with how weird they are? I don't think they would. Ryougi's, sure, but not Tohno's. Even if he did kill them, there would be more where the ones he killed came from, and the ones he killed would just reform eventually. I see him attacking the Heartless, only to realize he can't see their lines and his knife doesn't work on them, and getting ganked from behind. That's just the only way I see it going for Tohno in this case.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#15
Gilgamesh will definitely survive, and I've already got plans for him. As for the others:
Aozaki Aoko (possibly Touko as well, possibly not)
I'll admit that I'm not as familiar with Tsukihime as I am with F/SN, but Aoko is apparently both scary powerful and a nice person. That's a rare combination amongst modern Nasu Magi. However, if I'm completely honest, she's also a complete game-breaker. Is her blowing up a chain of islands canon, or have I read Hill of Swords once too many? Also, her destructive "fifth magic" has yet to be explained, so I'd have to make something up, which I really don't want to do. I'll most likely find some way of removing her as a factor.

Mystic Eyes of Death Perception users.
SHIKI Tohno (Roa) can only see life force, which would be the Soul in this setting. Heartless don't have Souls, so his eyes wouldn't work.

Shiki Nanaya's MEoDP allow him to perceive the death of any concrete, physical existence, but he can't kill concepts like Ryogi can, nor can he kill things that possess deaths that are too far from human perception to be understood. Heartless will fall under either of these two conditions, probably the second. Heartless don't "die if you "kill them," unless you use a Keyblade. Of course, they're not technically alive anyway.

Shiki Ryougi's MEoDP allow her to perceive the death of more or less anything that exists. According to Kinoko, "Shiki can kill what she thinks to be "alive", for example, say a telephone that she perceives as "being alive because it's not broken," and apparently she was wrong when she claimed she could kill God. I'm going to say that Ryogui could utterly erase the Heartless from existence, partially due to her 3rd personality basically being a personification of Akasha, and according to the universal rules of my cross-over, "The Light." However, Kara no Kyoukai takes place in an alternate continuity to F/SN and Tsukihime, so she won't be appearing and stealing Shirou's thunder at all!

Waver Velvet (because Iskander is a bro and toughened him up)
I honestly wish I could include Velvet, or Lord El-Melloi II, as he is a really fun character, and he'd also prove useful for plot purposes, as apparently he's incredibly talented at detecting the hidden talent of others and training it, so he'd make a great mentor figure for magecraft. And he turned Kayneth's Mystic Code, Volumen Hydragyrum, into what's essentially a T-1000! And has it do chores! How cool is that? I might have him Spoiler become a Nobody that replaces a canon member of Org 13, controlling metal. He's also an academic and a scholar, much like Ansem the Wise's former apprentices. /Spoiler

Bazett Fraga McRemitz (depending on timeline and how canon hollow ataraxia is)
When Shirou's world falls into darkness, Bazett is in a near-death state being kept alive by Avenger, and, if the artificial world Avenger created in F/HA actually involved "real" time travel, is also in one of the second days of the time loop. Either way, she's in no condition for hero-ing. Besides, if she was in my fic, I'd have to have her run into Caster, who'd be merciless against such a mature woman. Or have Kazuki beat her up, but then lose against her in the re-match. And we can't have that.

Magical Princess Phantas-Moon (haha not really. But it would be hilarious.)
Alternate Universe. Is descended from Crimson Moon and therefore bound to Gaia. And what?

Mikiya Kokutou (I know even less about Kara no Kyoukai, but the wiki says his Origin is "one that will never hurt others, more so than anyone else." And yes, I know the wiki is unreliable. So this is very much a maybe. Also he may not exist in the correct timeline.)
KnK is an alternate timeline, so any characters from it that don't appear or aren't mentioned in F/SN or Tsukihime won't be in this fic.

Miyu (Prisma Illya. Again, totally different timeline, so depends on how you want to play it.)
See above. Besides, we already have an Ilya. I'd end up writing a conversation with both of them that horribly confuses anyone who reads it.

MWkillkenny84 said:
I think every being of the Nasu!Earth will be able to shrug off the corruption, IF they have sufficient magical power/willpower/ego/connections with supernatural sources.
The only ones with problems on that planets are the mundanes. As always.
The amount of magic power/skill one has just means you can blow more Heartless up before they eat you. And arrogance and egotism increases the odds you'll let darkness into your heart and lose it.

He-who-voted-for-Kodos said:
Well, Ryougi and Mikiya- that is, the ones from KnK- live in another universe from FSN and Tsukihime. So, while it would technically be possible for Ryougi Shiki and Mikiya Kokutou to survive the fall of FSN/Tsukihime Nasu-Earth (for which I suggest the basic Gaia as a name), they wouldn't be the same as the ones from KnK. Not to say they wouldn't be badass, just not the same badass.
I considered it, but the names of most KH worlds are two or three words. Atlantica was just one word, I suppose... Oh, and those two haven't been revealed in the F/SN/Tsukihime universe, and due to Tohno Shiki's presence, Ryougi isn't likely to be. Nor is Mikiya, actually, seeing as Tohno Shiki is basically an Expy of the two of them.

On the note of who would be able to survive, outside of FSN and removing those that seem like they'd be bound to Gaia (Primate Murder and anything descended from Type-Moon), I would expect a fair few of the higher-ups within the Mages' Association and Church to survive. Maleficent is supposed to not be overwhelmed by the Darkness because she's looking to dominate it, right? I would expect that kind of thing from magi. And I would expect both groups to have serious stuff to keep their minds under their own control.
Maleficent is a master of black KH magic, which is basically AoG magecraft. She's the Dragon of the KH series. Literally in BBS and KH1. She's probably stronger than Caster, who in one bad end of F/SN, and correct me if I'm wrong about this, pickled Shirou to use him as a projection foci, and conquered the planet. Furthermore, the reasons why the 5th Heaven's feel participants (including Kirei) remain Somebodies will be because they survive the Heartless invasion until their world's Heart is devoured, and are lucky, fast and skilled enough to enter the Corridors of Darkness that open in the general area of a World's Keyhole when a World is about to fall into Darkness. /Spoilers

From Tsukihime, I don't actually know much about it, but I would imagine that at least Kohaku would wind up falling to darkness. Then there's the question of how it would affect half-demons like Akiha. For Shiki...I'm actually not entirely convinced he'd survive. Not because he wouldn't survive the world falling apart, but because of the Heartless. His ingrained instincts are supposed to have him attack inhuman things, right? It's why he cut up Arcueid. Why wouldn't that lead him to go after the Heartless? But his knife is just a knife, and his MEoDP are supposed to be more focused on the death of living things. So, would they even work on Heartless, with how weird they are? I don't think they would. Ryougi's, sure, but not Tohno's. Even if he did kill them, there would be more where the ones he killed came from, and the ones he killed would just reform eventually. I see him attacking the Heartless, only to realize he can't see their lines and his knife doesn't work on them, and getting ganked from behind. That's just the only way I see it going for Tohno in this case.
Kohaku would become a Heartless, Akiha will have her Heart stolen before she goes Crimson Red Vermillion, and as for the last, see above, and yes, I probably won't actually show it, except in a side-story or an omake or something, but Tohno Shiki will lose his heart pretty much exactly how you said. And he won't have the necessary will to become a Heartless, due to a combination of multiple personalities that I believe spend at least some time fighting/resisting each other, and the mental strain that comes from using the MEoDP.
 

Archanon

Well-Known Member
#16
nixofcyzerra said:
Waver Velvet (because Iskander is a bro and toughened him up)
I honestly wish I could include Velvet, or Lord El-Melloi II, as he is a really fun character, and he'd also prove useful for plot purposes, as apparently he's incredibly talented at detecting the hidden talent of others and training it, so he'd make a great mentor figure for magecraft. And he turned Kayneth's Mystic Code, Volumen Hydragyrum, into what's essentially a T-1000! And has it do chores! How cool is that? I might have him Spoiler become a Nobody that replaces a canon member of Org 13, controlling metal. He's also an academic and a scholar, much like Ansem the Wise's former apprentices. /Spoiler
Replace Vexen! Nobody likes Vexen. :p
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#17
Bazett wouldn't be as much as a threat as you think. She may be dangerous when if she recovers, but she's still missing an arm.
 
#18
Unless there's a way to heal missing limbs, which seems plausible with so many worlds to work with. Or just a way to get a really good prosthetic (i.e., find Touko).
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#19
nixofcyzerra said:
Gilgamesh will definitely survive, and I've already got plans for him. As for the others:
Aozaki Aoko (possibly Touko as well, possibly not)
I'll admit that I'm not as familiar with Tsukihime as I am with F/SN, but Aoko is apparently both scary powerful and a nice person. That's a rare combination amongst modern Nasu Magi. However, if I'm completely honest, she's also a complete game-breaker. Is her blowing up a chain of islands canon, or have I read Hill of Swords once too many? Also, her destructive "fifth magic" has yet to be explained, so I'd have to make something up, which I really don't want to do. I'll most likely find some way of removing her as a factor.
Fanon, as far as I know, though she did blow up a comet a giant skull-puppet shot at her, along with the skull-puppet that shot it at her. As for how her Fifth Magic works, it's basically time fuckery, shunting the location of events and concepts around in the timestream. This lets her do things like borrow ten years of her boyfriend's past to give herself ten years of experience from her future for the duration of a fight, resurrect her boyfriend by shunting the five minutes of him being messily killed elsewhere, and giving herself shitloads of prana to power her brute-force magic attacks by grabbing it from elsewhere in time. Overuse of it risks destroying the universe through some poorly-explained mechanism.

In general, if you want more detail, feel free to head over to Beast's Lair and <a href='http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/2008-Mahoyo-scenes' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>check out</a> the <a href='http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/1993-Mahou-Tsukai-no-Yoru-free-range-discussion-thread-spoil-as-thou-wilt' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Mahayo</a> and <a href='http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/121-The-5th-Magic-What-do-we-think-it-s-about/page5' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Fifth Magic</a> threads.
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#20
On the subject of Maleficent vs Caster...the only two advantages Maleficent has over Medea are her teleportation and draconic shapeshifting. Medea's demonstrated magic beyond Maleficent's canon capabilities (i.e. Rain of Light, those huge-ass laser beams in UC).

Well, and Maleficent was voiced by Eleanor Audley, which makes her full-out crazy awesome.

One way to go at this is that Maleficent technically isn't human and is actually of the faerie, while Caster is a human-spirit-ghost-person-thing, or that each of them prefers different types of magic (i.e. Maleficent's skills at death magic and curses equal Medea's skill at laser beams). Pretty much any actual duel between them is going to involve laser beams, green fire, lightning and half-a-dozen curses cancelling the other.

Also, Caster ending up in the Hercules setting would be sort of funny, to say nothing of Berserker and Gilgamesh.

And Shirou's Disney harem.
 

MWkillkenny84

Well-Known Member
#21
Maleficent Vs Caster/Medea?
Sorry for the Disney's fans, but here the greek Witch wins, even if by a thinner margin: first, SHE IS NOT ALONE (if she has managed to save False Assassin and Kuzuki/Murderfist Sensei). Even as a cannon fodder, Koujiro can perfectly wound Maleficent, if she's too distracted into fighting Medea spells-on-spells. And I do not want to speak of what Kuzuki will do to Maleficent if he will be able to have the fae-witch into his fists' range.
And second, Medea is more 'ruthless', and if she start to use her draining mana spells on Maleficent's mook army she can fuel herself at a greater level than Maleficent.
So, even if Maleficent has more firepower, Medea has more skills.
And we all know one of the major rules regarding the Nasuverse is "This rule say X, EXEPT if..." and so on...
Ah, Waver as Vexen's replacement?
FUND IT!
And I think Zeltrech will want to save his adoptive granddaughter, her fianceÚ and friends (read: Arcueid, Shiki and so on).
 

Lord of Bones

Well-Known Member
#22
...This is Maleficent versus Medea, not "Medea with prep and mooks versus Maleficent and mooks". And ruthlessness? Seriously? Maleficent condemned a baby to die for her parents' act of spurning her, then personally went out to see the death done herself.

Would Maleficent's dragon form be considered a Phantasmal Beast?
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#24
Archanon said:
nixofcyzerra said:
Waver Velvet (because Iskander is a bro and toughened him up)
I honestly wish I could include Velvet, or Lord El-Melloi II, as he is a really fun character, and he'd also prove useful for plot purposes, as apparently he's incredibly talented at detecting the hidden talent of others and training it, so he'd make a great mentor figure for magecraft. And he turned Kayneth's Mystic Code, Volumen Hydragyrum, into what's essentially a T-1000! And has it do chores! How cool is that? I might have him Spoiler become a Nobody that replaces a canon member of Org 13, controlling metal. He's also an academic and a scholar, much like Ansem the Wise's former apprentices. /Spoiler
Replace Vexen! Nobody likes Vexen. :p
Vexen is one of Ansem's original apprentices, and was responsible for the Replica project. He's too important to be sent on missions, which is where I plan on having "Varwex's" (Xarwev?) predecessor meet her end. (As recent revelations about Xemnas's plan make Number 12's presence in Organisation XIII a little... strange.)


Bazett's arm.
Those comparisons I made were references to statements made in interviews. And even if a Disney world or one good curaga spell could give Bazett her arm back, it doesn't change the fact that she's not exactly in the condition to be defending herself against the Heartless or enduring the influence of the RoD. ...Unless.... Could Avenger command the Heartless?! Argh, Angra Manyu's transformation upon entering the greater grail still confuses me at times. Angra Manyu essentially desired to become all the evils of the world. When he entered the Greater Grail, it identified him as a human and granted his wish, so he became all the evils of the world, or it created an amount of Darkness equivalent to that found in the entire world, and placed it into his Heart, creating a Heartless several orders of magnitude stronger than any we see in the Kingdom Hearts series. Fine. No problem (for me, anyway. Shirou should be completely terrified.) But how the hell does Avenger come into this?!


nick012000 said:
Fanon, as far as I know, though she did blow up a comet a giant skull-puppet shot at her, along with the skull-puppet that shot it at her. As for how her Fifth Magic works, it's basically time fuckery, shunting the location of events and concepts around in the timestream. This lets her do things like borrow ten years of her boyfriend's past to give herself ten years of experience from her future for the duration of a fight, resurrect her boyfriend by shunting the five minutes of him being messily killed elsewhere, and giving herself shitloads of prana to power her brute-force magic attacks by grabbing it from elsewhere in time. Overuse of it risks destroying the universe through some poorly-explained mechanism.

In general, if you want more detail, feel free to head over to Beast's Lair and <a href='http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/2008-Mahoyo-scenes' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>check out</a> the <a href='http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/1993-Mahou-Tsukai-no-Yoru-free-range-discussion-thread-spoil-as-thou-wilt' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Mahayo</a> and <a href='http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/121-The-5th-Magic-What-do-we-think-it-s-about/page5' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Fifth Magic</a> threads.
She can manipulate personal timelines, her own and other people's? Cutting-and-pasting events as she pleases? That's so broken. How does she deal with alternate futures that don't end up happening? Is she screwing over her parallel selves?

God-damn it, I was going to have Nasu-verse Merlin be the master of the 4th magic, time travel, as a perfect mirror to Disney Merlin, who is also a time traveller. Maybe the 4th is time travel while the 5th is screwing with time?

Did the Aoko who appears in Tsukihime go through the events of Mahou Tsukai no Yoru? Is MTnY set in the same universe as F/SN and Tsukihime? Or, considering that each route in both F/Sn and Tsukihime is an alternate universe, the same "cluster of universes?" Or is MTnY like KnK, set in a different continuity?


Lord of Bones said:
On the subject of Maleficent vs Caster...the only two advantages Maleficent has over Medea are her teleportation and draconic shapeshifting. Medea's demonstrated magic beyond Maleficent's canon capabilities (i.e. Rain of Light, those huge-ass laser beams in UC).
I'm sorry, but LOL What?! In her Birth By Sleep boss battle, Maleficent teleports, summons green flame and bolts of dark lightning, transforms herself into a pin-wheel cloud/vortex that causes damage with dark magic, and is shown to be immune to basic Air and Magnet spells. Oh, and calls upon mooks. Ven is helped by the three good fairies when he fights her.

In her KH1 battle, she's shown to be able to summon Pureblood Heartless, levitate objects (the floating platform she stands on,) summons 'meteors' of dark energy, and fire lightning strikes that track your allies. Oh and she can hit you with her staff if you get too close.

And she can turn into a freaking dragon (though the ability was sealed in BBS, and so it needs to be unlocked in KH1.) I believe her fire in this form also tracks, and in BBS, her head was her only weak point, meaning that Keyblade Master Aqua, the most proficient of the three BBS protagonists in magic, could only harm her by aiming for the skull. And Aqua had help beating her from Prince Phillip, and it's possible she couldn't have done it alone.

She can also manipulate the darkness in the hearts of others to have them do her bidding (and might be able to effect Kuzuki, I'm not sure yet.) Oh, and in KH2, she create thorns in the Hall of The Cornerstone, creates a wall of green flame to protect Sora right after the battle of 1000 Heartless, and, oh yeah, comes back from the dead.

Even going with her KH1 portrayal (who appears to have weakened since BBS even as a dragon,) before she has the darkness in her Heart fully unleashed, I'd say she could beat Caster.

One way to go at this is that Maleficent technically isn't human and is actually of the faerie, while Caster is a human-spirit-ghost-person-thing, or that each of them prefers different types of magic (i.e. Maleficent's skills at death magic and curses equal Medea's skill at laser beams). Pretty much any actual duel between them is going to involve laser beams, green fire, lightning and half-a-dozen curses cancelling the other.
What do we know about the Fey in F/SN, aside from knowing they forged Excalibur and Avalon? Oh, and pretty much, but don't forget Caster and Maleficent can both teleport as well. I plan to put some real effort into writing their fight scene.

Also, Caster ending up in the Hercules setting would be sort of funny, to say nothing of Berserker and Gilgamesh.
I've actually looked into the history behind Jason, Medea and Heracles, seeing as Heracles was on the Argo's voyage according to some, so expect a little introspection from Caster when she runs into Berserker. (I find it interesting that we're never shown Berserker's assault on the temple, only given a little info about it in interviews.) There will be a Herac vs. Herc battle. And as for Gilgamesh, well, his civilisation came about 15-1600 years before Thebes was founded, so what can I write about there?

And Shirou's Disney harem.
No harem for Shirou (I'm a little undecided on pairings but I doubt I can write a harem fic that isn't horribly awful,) but several female Disney/Square Enix characters will be more impressed with Shirou than they were with Sora, due to him being about three years older and considerably more physically developed. Not to mention his shirtless scenes in Atlantica.


MWkillkenny84 said:
Maleficent Vs Caster/Medea?
Sorry for the Disney's fans, but here the greek Witch wins, even if by a thinner margin: first, SHE IS NOT ALONE (if she has managed to save False Assassin and Kuzuki/Murderfist Sensei). Even as a cannon fodder, Koujiro can perfectly wound Maleficent, if she's too distracted into fighting Medea spells-on-spells. And I do not want to speak of what Kuzuki will do to Maleficent if he will be able to have the fae-witch into his fists' range.
Maleficent can summon Heartless to keep the close-combat specialists busy. She can also levitate stuff she stands on and teleport, so it might be harder for Kuzuki and Assassin to get into her range than you think.

And second, Medea is more 'ruthless', and if she start to use her draining mana spells on Maleficent's mook army she can fuel herself at a greater level than Maleficent.
So, even if Maleficent has more firepower, Medea has more skills.
What LoB said regarding her ruthlessness, and although Heartless do contain MP orbs in KH1, and Caster might be able to absorb them right out of the Heartless she faces, her spells are a lot larger than Sora's and would use up much more energy. Firing a rain of light would probably drain most, if not all, of Sora's MP in one shot. The mana drain spell would give her a small recharge, but if she's relying on it she'll probably have already lost.

And I think Zeltrech will want to save his adoptive granddaughter, her fianceÚ and friends (read: Arcueid, Shiki and so on).
Zelretch is off at the Biennial "Zelretch prank of the year" awards, where many, if not all, of the different Zelretch's who've mastered the 2nd magic get together and judge which one has pulled off the best prank. There are several categories, including: "most artistic," "most disproportionate to the offence," and "best tailored to the victim." He won't be appearing, and I won't be writing the awards ceremony, as it would likely cost me my sanity.


Lord of Bones said:
Would Maleficent's dragon form be considered a Phantasmal Beast?
While, in Nasu-verse terms, Maleficent is an extremely powerful Age of Gods style magus, she is not an extension of the world, or a mediator of nature. She just can transform herself into a Dragon, taking advantage of it's superior physical capabilities.


He-who-voted-for-Kodos said:
...Maleficent as the dragon Argon Coin summons?
A: Caster can't use the coin, B: the coin summons a specific dragon, C: Maleficent isn't a Nasu-verse dragon, which are extensions of the Earth, and D: interviews state that even if Caster could summon the dragon, it isn't strong enough to be able to make a clear difference against higher level opponents, so it can't be that powerful.

And if I was going to do it, Mushu would be funnier, even if he's in a summon gem. Say, he's a guardian spirit, right? Does Mulan (the film) ever go into what that means exactly?
 
#25
Other thing that came to mind: Shirou undergoing Phil's hero training. The arguments they get into: "You. Ain't. A. Hero." "I. Will. Be." And better still if part of the training involves a high-jump bar.
 
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