Nasuverse Iron is my blood, and LIGHT is my heart

[knight_of_ni]

UBW is a part of Shirou, he may not be able to access it until late in the story, but it isn't something he can ever get rid of. With adding Sora's stuff on top of UBW and Avalon still being inside him, it runs the risk of making him a munchkin once he starts fixing some of his issues.

The other stuff does seem like it will work out much better.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

UBW is a part of Shirou, he may not be able to access it until late in the story, but it isn't something he can ever get rid of. With adding Sora's stuff on top of UBW and Avalon still being inside him, it runs the risk of making him a munchkin once he starts fixing some of his issues.

The other stuff does seem like it will work out much better.

So what you're saying is that you think that Keyblade+UBW+Avalon is too hax? Technically Avalon by itself is hax. It's the ultimate defence when activated, and gives you Regen when it's not. However, Saber becoming a Summon Gem will cut of the prana flow, meaning that Shirou's regen will only be active when she's summoned, and Saber only cottoned onto the possibility that Avalon was in Shirou in the Fate route after he'd healed from a fatal wound again. Seeing as Sora had, and Shirou will have, access to Cure fairly early on, Shirou may never discover that Avalon is within him.

As for UBW, Shirou only realised that his weapon Tracing stemmed from his RM while fighting Gil. And that was after seeing Archer use it , and then the two of them fighting to the point where Shirou absorbed a lot of Archer's skill. Under different circumstances, Shirou's, what, a decade or more away from actualising UBW on his own?

I've got a good idea of how Shirou's strength and power level will progress as the fic goes on, and the antagonists will be challenges for him (with a few possible exceptions.

 

[knight_of_ni]

UBW is a part of Shirou, he may not be able to access it until late in the story, but it isn't something he can ever get rid of. With adding Sora's stuff on top of UBW and Avalon still being inside him, it runs the risk of making him a munchkin once he starts fixing some of his issues.

The other stuff does seem like it will work out much better.

So what you're saying is that you think that Keyblade+UBW+Avalon is too hax? Technically Avalon by itself is hax. It's the ultimate defence when activated, and gives you Regen when it's not. However, Saber becoming a Summon Gem will cut of the prana flow, meaning that Shirou's regen will only be active when she's summoned, and Saber only cottoned onto the possibility that Avalon was in Shirou in the Fate route after he'd healed from a fatal wound again. Seeing as Sora had, and Shirou will have, access to Cure fairly early on, Shirou may never discover that Avalon is within him.

As for UBW, Shirou only realised that his weapon Tracing stemmed from his RM while fighting Gil. And that was after seeing Archer use it , and then the two of them fighting to the point where Shirou absorbed a lot of Archer's skill. Under different circumstances, Shirou's, what, a decade or more away from actualising UBW on his own?

I've got a good idea of how Shirou's strength and power level will progress as the fic goes on, and the antagonists will be challenges for him (with a few possible exceptions.

Avalon is always somewhat active. Saber just kicked it up to a useful rate. It was how he survived frying his nerves every night. I had forgotten the amount of plot hax required for Shirou to get his main plot hax going; so that might not be an issue.

 

[Lord of Bones]

All that said, I might have a scene with something like this. It all really depends on how Kirei and Maleficent would interact. How would a team-up benefit either of them?

And I definitely, definitely want to write Kirei/Frollo interaction.

*Interestingly, the order of the first, second and fourth pillars in Sora's DTTH mirrors the order in which Ven visited the worlds of the characters shown on said pillars. Dwarf Woodlands, Castle of Dreams and Enchanted Dominion. Of course, it actually makes logical sense for Maleficent to control the Heartless and attack the worlds in that order, as Ven, Terra and Aqua left the Land of Departure to visit those worlds, and the Land of Departure is in the Realm of In-between, closer to the Darkness. This implies that those worlds are closer to the RoI-B and the RoD than say, Neverland, and would therefore be easier to assault.

It all depends on Kirei and Maleficent. Maleficent, for her part, would be somewhat intrigued by a mortal who literally cannot feel joy by doing anything other than evil; Kotomine would view her as somewhat much like himself - one who does evil because it's the only thing they can derive satisfaction from.

It's not like Maleficent's any less of a troll herself, given that she was going to release Prince Philip to awaken Aurora when he was old, feeble and couldn't get it up anymore.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

UBW is a part of Shirou, he may not be able to access it until late in the story, but it isn't something he can ever get rid of. With adding Sora's stuff on top of UBW and Avalon still being inside him, it runs the risk of making him a munchkin once he starts fixing some of his issues.

The other stuff does seem like it will work out much better.

So what you're saying is that you think that Keyblade+UBW+Avalon is too hax? Technically Avalon by itself is hax. It's the ultimate defence when activated, and gives you Regen when it's not. However, Saber becoming a Summon Gem will cut of the prana flow, meaning that Shirou's regen will only be active when she's summoned, and Saber only cottoned onto the possibility that Avalon was in Shirou in the Fate route after he'd healed from a fatal wound again. Seeing as Sora had, and Shirou will have, access to Cure fairly early on, Shirou may never discover that Avalon is within him.

As for UBW, Shirou only realised that his weapon Tracing stemmed from his RM while fighting Gil. And that was after seeing Archer use it , and then the two of them fighting to the point where Shirou absorbed a lot of Archer's skill. Under different circumstances, Shirou's, what, a decade or more away from actualising UBW on his own?

I've got a good idea of how Shirou's strength and power level will progress as the fic goes on, and the antagonists will be challenges for him (with a few possible exceptions.

Avalon is always somewhat active. Saber just kicked it up to a useful rate. It was how he survived frying his nerves every night. I had forgotten the amount of plot hax required for Shirou to get his main plot hax going; so that might not be an issue.

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

All that said, I might have a scene with something like this. It all really depends on how Kirei and Maleficent would interact. How would a team-up benefit either of them?

And I definitely, definitely want to write Kirei/Frollo interaction.

*Interestingly, the order of the first, second and fourth pillars in Sora's DTTH mirrors the order in which Ven visited the worlds of the characters shown on said pillars. Dwarf Woodlands, Castle of Dreams and Enchanted Dominion. Of course, it actually makes logical sense for Maleficent to control the Heartless and attack the worlds in that order, as Ven, Terra and Aqua left the Land of Departure to visit those worlds, and the Land of Departure is in the Realm of In-between, closer to the Darkness. This implies that those worlds are closer to the RoI-B and the RoD than say, Neverland, and would therefore be easier to assault.

It all depends on Kirei and Maleficent. Maleficent, for her part, would be somewhat intrigued by a mortal who literally cannot feel joy by doing anything other than evil; Kotomine would view her as somewhat much like himself - one who does evil because it's the only thing they can derive satisfaction from.

It's not like Maleficent's any less of a troll herself, given that she was going to release Prince Philip to awaken Aurora when he was old, feeble and couldn't get it up anymore.

I'd forgotten that Mal planned to release Phillip eventually. Actually, considering how beautiful Aurora was supposed to be, and how her beauty was a gift from Flora, Maleficent planning to have her betrothed be elderly and frankly decrepit when he woke her creates a whole layer of subtext. Interesting.

I can see your points on how the two of them might perceive one another, but the problem is something similar to something that always bugs me when it appears in Ranma fanfic. The two of them aren't going to swap life stories the second they lay eyes on one-another. And I don't think Maleficent would be able to sense Kotomine's issues, or his deformed Heart straight away upon meeting him.

If Kotomine were to learn of the Heart, the Heartless and the Ansem Reports (possibly only the ones that Sora got in canon at first that made "Ansem" appear like a good guy,) and also learnt that Maleficent had given the "Evil Alliance" pages from the report, then it's possible that he'd seek out Maleficent wanting information about the whereabouts of "Ansem." Maleficent would see value in his offer because, as Shirou and Riku barely know one another, she doesn't really have an asset that would allow her to manipulate Shirou, so a character that understands Shirou as Kotomine does, and who also knew his father, would be quite valuable. Throw in a couple of scenes of collaborative trolling, and maybe have them gain a degree of insight into the other. Have Kirei experience character growth by interacting with someone who's flat-out evil and likes it that way.

But of course, they're both ultimately trying to use the other, Kirei planning a betrayal as soon as he can find "Ansem," and Maleficent spoiler that I think I'll go with planning for Kirei to be A,SoD's new body. Shame that Kirei's got no real yen for personal power and so isn't likely to delve too deeply into darkness, and his time as an Executor taught him how to resist possession from demons to a degree. A,SoD needed Riku to "let him in," so he won't have any real chance of possessing Kirei against his will. Meaning that A,SoD will have to go with his back-up plan... /spoiler

 

[Lord of Bones]

The gifts of grace and beauty were also from Maleficent.

"The princess shall indeed, grow in grace and beauty, beloved by all who know her..."

 

[MastaofBitches]

You know, if Kairi's heart still ends up inside Sora, then isn't Riku's Keyblade still going to go to Sora, because of Kairi? Kairi has the ability to wield a Keyblade after all. So, wouldn't it workout the same as if Sora had, had Ven inside him?

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

 

[MWkillkenny84]

I can perfectly see that type of 'relationship' born between Maleficent and Kirei, even if with the natural, inavoidable backstab between the two of them "when you will outlive your usefulness".
Possess Kirei?
:evil2: :evil2: :evil2:
Try again A,SoD.
Just a question: a creature like Nero Chaos (a vampire/collective of devoured creatures) can become a 'partial' Heartless (by devouring some of the critters) and survive a 'world' collapsing?

 

[nick012000]

Just a question: a creature like Nero Chaos (a vampire/collective of devoured creatures) can become a 'partial' Heartless (by devouring some of the critters) and survive a 'world' collapsing?

Probably not, since he died when Tohno Shiki stabbed his very concept to death, and then did it again when a Japanese schoolgirl he ate came back to life with all his powers and begged Shiki to kill her.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

The gifts of grace and beauty were also from Maleficent.

"The princess shall indeed, grow in grace and beauty, beloved by all who know her..."

Was that actually a gift, or Mal just making a premonition?

You know, if Kairi's heart still ends up inside Sora, then isn't Riku's Keyblade still going to go to Sora, because of Kairi? Kairi has the ability to wield a Keyblade after all. So, wouldn't it workout the same as if Sora had, had Ven inside him?

Erm... *thinks for a moment* Ven was an active Keybearer. Kairi at this point only has the potential to someday wield a Keyblade, she hasn't actually been chosen yet, and she's not really in a position to earning it now. Plus her Heart just been through a fairly traumatic event. She's wasn't a constant voice in Sora's head in canon, after all, and Nomura has never stated that Kairi had anything to do with Sora earning the KB in canon. Plus the scene in KH2 where Riku hands Kairi Destiny's Embrace still hasn't been properly explained. So... No.

Though I would totally read a well-written fic where Kairi gets a Keyblade early on and kicks ass, to make up for all the fan-dumb fuelled hate she gets from Yaoi fan-girls.

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Just a question: a creature like Nero Chaos (a vampire/collective of devoured creatures) can become a 'partial' Heartless (by devouring some of the critters) and survive a 'world' collapsing?

Probably not, since he died when Tohno Shiki stabbed his very concept to death, and then did it again when a Japanese schoolgirl he ate came back to life with all his powers and begged Shiki to kill her.

Yeah, he dead. No appearance of NC in this fic.

That said, he apparently consumes creatures entirely, which I suppose would include their Hearts. But eating a Heartless, which is essentially a Heart coated in Darkness? Merging with Darkness = Bad Idea. Hell, the Heartless he merged with would probably start taking the Hearts of the other animals inside him, creating more Heartless within Nero Chaos. So he'd eventually end up being "eaten" from the inside.

 

[Lord of Bones]

This being Maleficent, it's likely she enforced and enhanced Flora's and Fauna's gifts just to twist the dagger before cursing Aurora.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

This being Maleficent, it's likely she enforced and enhanced Flora's and Fauna's gifts just to twist the dagger before cursing Aurora.

Having just watched the scene in question on youtube, I have to agree. Man, I don't remember Mal being that much of a troll.

To quote a certain tumbler:

ôsheÆll be loved by all~~ butwhensheturns16sheÆllprickherifingeranddie LOLOLOLö

Problem?

 

[MWkillkenny84]

Having just watched the scene in question on youtube, I have to agree. Man, I don't remember Mal being that much of a troll.

To quote a certain tumbler:

ôsheÆll be loved by all~~ butwhensheturns16sheÆllprickherifingeranddie LOLOLOLö

Problem?

Fae.
Corrupted, 'evil' (from a human point of view), but she's of the fairy race.
Disney versions apart, Fae Folk and 'human friendly' were an oximoron, 90% of the times (see youkai into Japanese typical folklore).

On NC... that, or he will become an Heartless version of himself... does this change something, in the eventual, impossible case of an 'encounter' between him/it and the Heartless?
On a second note, how many problems have Akiha (and others demon-blooded characters) and Ciel (former Roa's incarnation) with the Darkness?

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Fae.
Corrupted, 'evil' (from a human point of view), but she's of the fairy race.
Disney versions apart, Fae Folk and 'human friendly' were an oximoron, 90% of the times (see youkai into Japanese typical folklore).

In some ways Maleficent is closer to one of the Fiendish kind than a Type-moon Fairy. I'll probably have Mal, the 3 good fairies and the Fairy Godmother all be Elementals of a sort.

On NC... that, or he will become an Heartless version of himself... does this change something, in the eventual, impossible case of an 'encounter' between him/it and the Heartless?
On a second note, how many problems have Akiha (and others demon-blooded characters) and Ciel (former Roa's incarnation) with the Darkness?

NC is dead as you can get. Shiki saw to that. I suppose that if he were alive, after the Heartless he tried to assimilate consumed first the Hearts of the animals he's merged with and then his own, he could produce a Heartless that can defeat other Heartless and consume their Hearts to become stronger.

As for those with Akiha and Ciel, Demon blood doesn't mean they aren't comprised of a Heart, Soul and Body, and Akiha's demon blood isn't thicker than her human AFAIK, so she's not a distortion. As for Ciel, she can't die, but losing one's Heart isn't technically death.

 

[nick012000]

As for those with Akiha and Ciel, Demon blood doesn't mean they aren't comprised of a Heart, Soul and Body, and Akiha's demon blood isn't thicker than her human AFAIK, so she's not a distortion. As for Ciel, she can't die, but losing one's Heart isn't technically death.

Technically, I think Akiha does have demon blood stronger than that of her human blood, which is why she can go Crismon Red Vermillion. Also, Ciel's unkillability is based around Gaia getting stumped with a paradox, so once Gaia dies, Ciel is killable once more.

 

[MastaofBitches]

You know, if Kairi's heart still ends up inside Sora, then isn't Riku's Keyblade still going to go to Sora, because of Kairi? Kairi has the ability to wield a Keyblade after all. So, wouldn't it workout the same as if Sora had, had Ven inside him?

Erm... *thinks for a moment* Ven was an active Keybearer. Kairi at this point only has the potential to someday wield a Keyblade, she hasn't actually been chosen yet, and she's not really in a position to earning it now. Plus her Heart just been through a fairly traumatic event. She's wasn't a constant voice in Sora's head in canon, after all, and Nomura has never stated that Kairi had anything to do with Sora earning the KB in canon. Plus the scene in KH2 where Riku hands Kairi Destiny's Embrace still hasn't been properly explained. So... No.

But she still went through a Keyblade inheritance ceremony, and like you said, she has the potential for it. Which means, the Keyblade would be more likely to go to her, and then Sora, then traverse to a far off world.

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

As for those with Akiha and Ciel, Demon blood doesn't mean they aren't comprised of a Heart, Soul and Body, and Akiha's demon blood isn't thicker than her human AFAIK, so she's not a distortion. As for Ciel, she can't die, but losing one's Heart isn't technically death.

Technically, I think Akiha does have demon blood stronger than that of her human blood, which is why she can go Crismon Red Vermillion. Also, Ciel's unkillability is based around Gaia getting stumped with a paradox, so once Gaia dies, Ciel is killable once more.

I was under the impression that when Akiha's hair turns red, it's a sign that she's about to enter the Crimson Red Vermilion state, but more importantly, it's a sign that she's keeping her human and demon blood "in balance." That implies that the "demon's blood" is someone variable.

And does a world losing it's Heart and fading from existence count as death?

You know, if Kairi's heart still ends up inside Sora, then isn't Riku's Keyblade still going to go to Sora, because of Kairi? Kairi has the ability to wield a Keyblade after all. So, wouldn't it workout the same as if Sora had, had Ven inside him?

Erm... *thinks for a moment* Ven was an active Keybearer. Kairi at this point only has the potential to someday wield a Keyblade, she hasn't actually been chosen yet, and she's not really in a position to earning it now. Plus her Heart just been through a fairly traumatic event. She's wasn't a constant voice in Sora's head in canon, after all, and Nomura has never stated that Kairi had anything to do with Sora earning the KB in canon. Plus the scene in KH2 where Riku hands Kairi Destiny's Embrace still hasn't been properly explained. So... No.

But she still went through a Keyblade inheritance ceremony, and like you said, she has the potential for it. Which means, the Keyblade would be more likely to go to her, and then Sora, then traverse to a far off world.

I have no intention of having the Kingdom Key journey from Destiny Islands to Fuyuki, or to any other world. And even if the KK chose Kairi, athough Kairi's Heart was a fair bit more "awake" than Ven's, seeing as Sora had visions of Kairi and felt her emotions on seeing the slide of Hollow Bastion, considering what had to happen for Ven's Keyblade to awaken, it's unlikely that Sora would be able to access Kairi's KK before getting snacked on by the Darkside.

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

 

[MastaofBitches]

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

Yep, back during his own Grail War.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

Yep, back during his own Grail War.

Q: Archer's greatest defence is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?
A: Avalonüs power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

-Fate complete material.

 

[MastaofBitches]

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

Yep, back during his own Grail War.

Q: Archer's greatest defence is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?
A: Avalonüs power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

-Fate complete material.

I'd take that with a grain of salt, since Nasu is known to retcon whatever he feels like. I'd also point out that, that is a question about Archer, who neither possess Avalon, or is capable of tracing it anymore.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

Yep, back during his own Grail War.

Q: Archer's greatest defence is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?
A: Avalonüs power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

-Fate complete material.

I'd take that with a grain of salt, since Nasu is known to retcon whatever he feels like. I'd also point out that, that is a question about Archer, who neither possess Avalon, or is capable of tracing it anymore.

Wait, Avalon draws upon energy from Saber, whose dragon core produces prana, right? Shirou doesn't have any prana within him. He has Od. Doesn't that mean he'd have to convert his od into prana and then direct it to Avalon for any healing to take place?

 

[MastaofBitches]

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

Yep, back during his own Grail War.

Q: Archer's greatest defence is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?
A: Avalonüs power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

-Fate complete material.

I'd take that with a grain of salt, since Nasu is known to retcon whatever he feels like. I'd also point out that, that is a question about Archer, who neither possess Avalon, or is capable of tracing it anymore.

Wait, Avalon draws upon energy from Saber, who's dragon core produces prana, right? Shirou doesn't have any prana within him. He has Od. Doesn't that mean he'd have to convert his od into prana and then direct it to Avalon for any healing to take place?

Pretty much. It means he has to consciously use it, making it slightly less hax.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

Yep, back during his own Grail War.

Q: Archer's greatest defence is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?
A: Avalonüs power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

-Fate complete material.

I'd take that with a grain of salt, since Nasu is known to retcon whatever he feels like. I'd also point out that, that is a question about Archer, who neither possess Avalon, or is capable of tracing it anymore.

Wait, Avalon draws upon energy from Saber, who's dragon core produces prana, right? Shirou doesn't have any prana within him. He has Od. Doesn't that mean he'd have to convert his od into prana and then direct it to Avalon for any healing to take place?

Pretty much. It means he has to consciously use it, making it slightly less hax.

So then he couldn't have used it to survive turning his nerves into temporary magic circuits like knight of ni said, as he didn't know he even had it at that time. I didn't think that was right.

MoB, while I'll certainly accept the possibility that Shirou can recharge Avalon's energy reserves to up his regen rate, and even consider it probable, as he had no problem using it's active ability against Kirei at the end of Fate, I don't recall him actually consciously charging the Avalon inside him in the VN. In fact, the only instance I can think of Shirou doing that is in Gabriel Blessing's "In Flight." Was there a scene in the VN where Shirou did so?

 

[nick012000]

Wait, Avalon draws upon energy from Saber, whose dragon core produces prana, right? Shirou doesn't have any prana within him. He has Od. Doesn't that mean he'd have to convert his od into prana and then direct it to Avalon for any healing to take place?

Prana is simply a general term for life energy in general, and includes both od, the life energy of a particular person, and mana, the life energy of Gaia.

 

[MastaofBitches]

I was under the impression that after Saber vanished following the destruction of the 4th HF's grail, Avalon had a fixed amount of prana left in it, that was used up over the years every time Shirou was injured. Otherwise how could a very low-level healing factor help Shirou survive the fire? And where was it stated that Avalon was what allowed Shirou to survive creating temporary magic circuits?

While Avalon did have a fixed amount of Prana in it, and it was used up healing him from the fire, Avalon eventually became capable of using Shirou's prana, due to being a part of his body for more than 10 years. It's not as effective when it's running on Shirou's prana, as it is on Sabers, but it still works.

So Archer has a weak healing factor?

Only as much as any other Servant does. Remember, Archer doesn't have Avalon, and he's long past the point of being able to Trace it.

So he gave it away in the hypothetical Ilya route he's supposed to have come from?

Yep, back during his own Grail War.

Q: Archer's greatest defence is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?
A: Avalonüs power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

-Fate complete material.

I'd take that with a grain of salt, since Nasu is known to retcon whatever he feels like. I'd also point out that, that is a question about Archer, who neither possess Avalon, or is capable of tracing it anymore.

Wait, Avalon draws upon energy from Saber, who's dragon core produces prana, right? Shirou doesn't have any prana within him. He has Od. Doesn't that mean he'd have to convert his od into prana and then direct it to Avalon for any healing to take place?

Pretty much. It means he has to consciously use it, making it slightly less hax.

So then he couldn't have used it to survive turning his nerves into temporary magic circuits like knight of ni said, as he didn't know he even had it at that time. I didn't think that was right.

MoB, while I'll certainly accept the possibility that Shirou can recharge Avalon's energy reserves to up his regen rate, and even consider it probable, as he had no problem using it's active ability against Kirei at the end of Fate, I don't recall him actually consciously charging the Avalon inside him in the VN. In fact, the only instance I can think of Shirou doing that is in Gabriel Blessing's "In Flight." Was there a scene in the VN where Shirou did so?

He traces it against Kirei in Fate, because his body still remembered it. He was able to trace a fully charged Avalon, which would imply he knows how to charge it himself.