Naruto James Bond -like Naruto

mortalone

Well-Known Member
#1
Prologue

The store clerk's eyes briefly flicked over in his direction, passing over him like he wasn't there.

"Aw man," Naruto whined to himself impatiently. The clerk had already spent half an hour helping a young and beautiful chuunin girl with lush, raven colored hair.

"This sucks," he decided. He stamped out of the store noisily, briefly catching the shop keeper's irritation and the chuunin's cold disdain out of the corner of his eye.

Always the same. The merchants of Konoha would gladly accept his money, but he could only ever expect the worst level of service imaginable. The clerks all had a tendency to favor certain familiar faces (with names Naruto didn't really care to know, like "Hyuuga" and "Sarutobi" -- names he should have known, of course, but at the age of seven he was too much a self-absorbed brat to ever connect someone everyone looked up to like the Hokage with a cigar smoking newly-minted jounin). After that came anyone wearing a vest, and then anyone wearing a headband in general. But even Naruto knew that impersonating a ninja was a criminal offense. Been there, done that.

The pecking order didn't stop there. After the obvious ninjas and the people everyone seemed to know came men who carried themselves with a great deal of respect and dignity (mostly clients of the village and wealthy merchants, not that Naruto knew), then the pretty ladies (who strangely received less polite yet more eager attention), followed then by presentable looking adult men, then children, then the ugly women, and all the way at the bottom, somewhere beneath the fattest whale of a woman that Naruto had ever seen, was Naruto.

Rarely ever any service until he was set to pay, curt treatment that was often outright disrespectful, and no pleasantries or conversation exchanged beyond the bare bones minimum.

Demanding service would get Naruto kicked out. And rounded up by the police if he carried on too much. Once he even got sent to the Hokage. Normally he enjoyed meeting with the Old Geezer (capitalized), but that time the Hokage made him sweat and squirm for almost an hour.

Naruto kicked a rock in frustration. He followed the cloud of dirt it kicked up with his eyes all the way to where it connected with the foot of a man wearing a business suit. The man regarded Naruto for a second.

"Watch it kid."

"R-right," Naruto stammered out. The man walked away, briefly sparing a second glance over his shoulder as Naruto followed him with his eyes. The businessman had a cold look, but it was different. He didn't recognize Naruto? Was he from out of town?

A sudden epiphany came to Naruto as if a light bulb flicked on in his head. Some of the people who came to Konoha were from out of the village right? And the merchants treated them with respect right? That guy in the business suit would probably get better service than a pretty blond girl with giant knockers. The merchants would assume he was either a successful merchant on business with the village... or a wealthy client that the village depended on. That guy mattered. Even a self-absorbed seven year old flunky like Naruto understood that much.

And it wasn't illegal to walk around the village in henge. Even if the instructors told everyone not to at the academy.

Naruto performed the jutsu. His henge did not turn out perfectly. The face was a bit squashed and he was clearly shorter than the businessman, but he felt like a million ryou wearing, no, shrouded by the appearance of an expensive suit.

He impersonated the walk of the businessman as best he could back to the shop, never even realizing that more than a dozen ninja were watching him, more curious than anything. Someone that bad at being a ninja could not possibly have broken into the village, so the shinobi of Konoha correctly deduced that it was an academy student and let the event slide.

The effect of Naruto's henge had an immediate impact on the service he received in the shop. The chuunin girl was no longer there (a good thing; Naruto's experience might have ended very differently had she been there), only a silver haired ninja wearing a jounin's vest who had politely refused service.

The merchant seemed confused, at first, why Naruto -- now a stranger -- would be interested in children's clothing, but accepted the explanation Naruto gave that it was "for my son."

Naruto hoped he sounded manly enough when he said that. Discretely he noticed the jounin train his one eye on Naruto inquisitively. But the jounin never said a word. And for the first time in young Naruto's life he normal.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Idea

[To clarify, the James Bond influence stems from the movies -- although I have seen almost every movie more than once, I have not read any of the books.]

I started with a snippet since I felt it would explain this concept better than just saying "James Bond meets Naruto." Done right I think this could be an interesting concept; loaded down with canned, corny humor ("The name's Naruto, Uzumaki Naruto" errrr - no.) or complete character derailment and the idea would fall to pieces.

The premise is that a young Naruto discovers the value of henge and really takes a shine to it in a big, big way. Henge is for this Naruto what Kage Bunshin is for canon Naruto.

The key to good henge use, as Naruto learns over the years, is becoming the identity of whoever he's henge'd as. Want to be a merchant who trades expensive wines? Got to be able to act the part. Even if henge is a rudimentary technique, there's a reason the academy trains students to master it.

For this idea to work, I think the associations with James Bond have to arise naturally, so that Naruto is not merely some NINO Bond clone, but simply more Bond-like and dealing with more Bond-like problems. This would mean a gradual evolution that requires that the Sandaime (among others) would have to recognize Naruto's talent and cultivate it, developing Naruto into an infiltration specialist "secret agent."

Important question:
What does that mean for genin arrangements? I don't know yet. One possibility is having him apprenticed to somebody, or shipped off to work with ANBU, possibly even under Danzou (though with Sarutobi's ever present watchful eye over him).

Another important question:
What changes should be made to the Naruto world to make it more conducive to this type of story? Obviously there has to be more focus on village relations. I think Akatsuki can take the role of Spectre, but I think I need a village like Kumo, for example, to play the role of Russia. Are Akatsuki still after the jinchuuriki? Or something altogether different? And what of Orochimaru? Will he still invade Konoha? Still go for Sasuke?

Some AU is clearly acceptable here, and I think it can actually be done really well without losing too much in the way of canon characterizations.

Incorporating Bond with Naruto:
Again, rather than simply making Naruto a Bond-clone, I think the idea works best if there is some blending between canon Naruto and James Bond. So let's examine Bond traits (as I see them) and how I think they could relate...

1. Bond's most important trait is the chaos and calamity he leaves in his wake. For a secret agent, he sure does stir up a lot of trouble all the time. It's no wonder that people have heard all about him when you consider the trail of bodies and explosions.

Canon Naruto is frightfully similar in this regard. The meaning of subtle escapes him. This shared trait is a large part of why this idea is even possible without being a total NINO.

2. Bond is fundamentally a showoff. This relates back to (1), but is also worth talking about as a separate point.
2a. Bond one-liners. Often when there's no real need for a quip.
2b. A commanding presence (whether it's Connery's almost animal undercurrent or Moore's cultured sophistication; hell, even Daniel Craig stands out in a crowd very noticeably)
2c. Dresses to impress. Drives awesome cars. Loves to talk wine.
2d. Most importantly, frequently upstages people, especially in the Moore and Brosnan incarnations

Naruto is also a showoff, although he goes about it a bit differently. Trying (and failing) to upstage Sasuke is like half of part 1 of the manga. One-liners are something I think Naruto would add to his arsenal if he had the wit for them. And although it's hard to call Naruto's presence commanding (even now, with all the power he has), there's no question that he makes a presence. The only real issue here would be the way he dresses and the lack of cars in the Naruverse.

I think the important thing here is to meet Bond halfway. The lack of culture is a big, big difference between Naruto and Bond, so obviously Naruto will have to develop some, but overdeveloping this attribute would making him into a NINO in no time flat.

3. The Bond girls. Just... yeah. Every incarnation of Bond is a charmer, although the exact methods, mentality and morality regarding women changes from one Bond to another. Early incarnations made him a real Casanova, but he often suffered from a tendency to treat women as disposable. Later incarnations seem to have more meaningful, yet arguably even more dysfunctional, love lives.

Canon Naruto cannot be rectified with disposable women mindset. Naruto's morality is a very defining feature, and even with catching Naruto young enough to sway his moral outlook, I feel that falling too far from canon would be a betrayal of his character. Sometimes a bit of NINO is okay, but again, I'm trying to merge canon Naruto with James Bond.

However, there's no reason to think that Naruto could not be made popular with the girls. When you get down to it, he has a number of traits in canon that girls go for and we know that there are girls with feelings for him, especially now.

I'm thinking: a bit of animal magnetism like Connery, but with more care shown towards the feelings of women.

I do think that this Naruto would lose his virginity at a young age. You can't send someone inexperienced on an S-class mission only to have them fall for a honey trap. Of course Naruto might fall for it anyway, but he'll find his way out in Bond-like fashion.

4. Bond is a combat pragmatist. Not only does he not fight fair, but he'll use anything and everything as a weapon, and that's a huge contributing factor to the chaos and calamity he causes.

This is actually a hard trait to rectify with canon Naruto. Despite being a ninja, and despite many chaotic tendencies, he's incredibly honor bound (albeit in a more western sense, rather than a traditional Japanese sense). It might not show all that well at first glance, but it's there. His nindo to never go back on his word. His tendency to fight fair. His sense of justice and his desire to impose it.

An important part of this Naruto's development will be to beat that out of him in training. And perhaps after facing some cruelty on missions.

5. Bond is very knowledgeable on many subjects. The exact degree varies with different incarnations (as always), but he can talk high-value art just as easily as he can talk nuclear fission.

Again, not canon Naruto, but I think this is a trait we can develop fairly easily if we assume a certain bit of fanon -- although it's near impossible otherwise. The certain bit of fanon I am thinking of is that Naruto didn't get good instruction at the academy. Perhaps not actively sabotaged, but certainly not focused on. Combined with his canon trait to spend time causing pranks and trying to stand out and it's no wonder this kid doesn't even know basic things like how chakra is a combination of physical and spiritual energy. For crying out loud, shouldn't that be like day one?

But with his henge he can get attention and many merchants will happily discuss their trade (barring business secrets), which Naruto soaks in, just happy that these guys are talking to him. So when Naruto graduates to genin, he has a lot of knowledge on random little things, enough to sound like he belongs.

Tools

Naruto's skill set is going to be different to reflect his different role.

Jutsu:
His favorite and best technique is his henge, which allows him to slip into circumstances that he'd otherwise be barred from, similar to how Bond relies on his culture and sophistication.

KB is up in the air at this point. I don't want Naruto relying on it the way he does in canon. Spam KB does not fit this Naruto. That said, it's a useful technique... but FFS let's avoid doing the Mizuki scene for the one millionth time, shall we?

Rasengan is something he could only ever learn from Jiraiya or Kakashi, so maybe when he's older...

Elemental jutsu: perhaps something for sensory. For example, a wind technique that allows him to feel the presence of other humans (but not gauge their strength, and risk giving himself away since it means he has to send chakra-laced wind away from his body -- not trying to create a super technique here, just something that can be used in a pinch). Or maybe a different elemental affinity? Water? Lightning?

Summoning? A summon would be incredibly useful, but relying on summons for information gathering might divert him from the Bond-like path. After all, Bond tends to stir the pot and see where the chips fall.

Genjutsu: training this area is something I'm seriously considering. Interrogation techniques would be very in keeping with Bond, especially the Daniel Craig version. Naruto doesn't have to be a genjutsu based fighter to have genjutsu interrogation techniques (e.g. Nugar's People Lie).

Weapons: this is an area Naruto would get a real boost. What would James Bond be without his gadgets? Naruto should have hidden weapons on his person, a trick kunai holster, perhaps a one-shot senbon launcher in his sleeve or his boot. Etc.

Poisons: this Naruto would have much more familiarity with poisons than canon, but although he may occasionally use them, it's not really his thing, just as it isn't James Bond's.
 

FinalMax

Well-Known Member
#2
Ok, things to point out with this idea. Other than that it was attempted already.

1) James Bond is the boon and bane of intelligence gathering. Ask anyone in the old intel gathering community and they will tell you that Bond got them into that gig. They'll also tell you that he is the biggest joke in espionage. Even for the blunt force approach he is supposed to embody, Bond is a joke. We need to acknowledge that before we can continue onwards. His methods are too flashy, and the fact he got away with so much crap in the films is more the result of the rest of Bond's world being too damned stupid. Casino Royale is the notable exception because Bond did get caught and did not really get away unpunished.

Oddly, this makes James Bond an even closer fit with the Naruto universe. This does bring me to my next point.

2) Nobody in Naruto has been a ninja since part 1 ended, and only Naruto himself was effectively the last ninja then. When you mentioned combat pragmatism, I immediately went back to this point I do bring up from time to time. Now combat pragmatism is using whatever is at hand to fight. We are dealing with a world where everyone has magic superpowers. They got a little bit more to work with at any time than the average guy working a 7-Eleven, let alone James Bond. Everyone is apparently taught the flashiest shit imaginable and are told that it is meant for assassination. Even Danzo didn't count as a ninja, more like a disgruntled soldier who decided to channel Gendo Ikari.

And that should be enough of the quibbles, now onto everything else.

3) Bond isn't exactly knowledgeable in a great many subjects. He just knows how to fake it. There have been moments in the films (particularly the Brosnan era) where Bond was able to blend in not by knowing what is being said, but by making everyone else think he does. He has to be damned good at acting like he is a big shot in order for him to roll with the big shots. This is what often leads Bond into meeting his foes under somewhat cordial conditions initially. We can work with this for making a Bond-like Naruto. Naruto already has a lot of that self-worth that makes it possible, so the hard part is dealt with. He just needs to know how to use it. How to act, how to bullshit with the best of them, or at least how to fake it.

4) Reapplying the tools of Naruto to facilitate making him Bond-like is actually going to be the hard part. Everyone associates Bond and Naruto by certain things. For Bond, it's the one-liners and gadgets mostly. It's what made the Daniel Craig version so jarring for some, as his one-liners weren't exactly strong and he used no gadgets to speak of. It was a more pragmatic Bond doing simple things that made him closer to being an actual spy. For Naruto, it's his use of Kage Bunshin and the orange that tend to be associated with him. Becoming a ninja would effectively be impossible for him without the Kage Bunshin. And the only reasonable way for him to get that technique is the whole Mizuki incident. It doesn't mean we have to let it play out exactly the same though.

4a ) We could see Naruto learning some kind of application for Wind Ninjutsu, but not necessarily some kind of sensory thing. If we're going for a Bond-like, we should consider distractions. A gust of wind or a light breeze that kicks up some dust. A spark that sets off a small fire, or maybe short out a light.

4b ) Genjutsu has unfortunately been a bit overdone when it comes to making Naruto closer to Bond or a Hollywood Ninja. Using it for interrogation sounds more like a Bond Villain thing really, and the best results are still going to come from simple means rather that complex illusions. Still if we must have Naruto use illusions, we might as well have him use them again as distractions. Maybe make a gambler see a winning roll of the dice for a big, conspicuous payday. Make an ID tag show his face instead of the guy he picked it up from. Hell, make the villain think he was affected by the poison.

4c ) We don't need to go overboard on gadgets. We saw from the Daniel Craig version that Bond doesn't need super-science gadgetry to get a job done, just creative uses of more current tech. The Bond films with the fanciest gadgets were often the campiest ones. So the same approach must be considered here. Kunai with a hidden compartment? Ok, that's actually doable. Fit some wire in there or perhaps an explosive of some sort. Hide a message in there for sure. A watch with heat-seeking missiles and lasers is a bit much though. False heels and other compartments would be more the norm for a Bond-like Naruto.

Hope this all helps.
 

mortalone

Well-Known Member
#3
It does.

Regarding previous Bond!Naruto attempts, if I read them I forgot them. Although I figured this had been attempted before, but I also think it's easy to fail at.

Regarding your points individually:

1) Agreed. Although I to a degree, the Naruverse should help make this work.

2) Unfortunately true, and realistically it hasn't been since the chuunin exams that ninja have been ninja. I'm a bit worried about this myself, because even if I make things sufficiently AU to make the ninja more like ninja, the role of the Tailed Beasts becomes a bit of a sticking point. The power to effectively nuke a city with Kyuubi chakra makes Bond-esque infiltration tactics a bit of a moot point.

And I'd say that the Kyuubi is an even more defining trait of Naruto than KB or orange.

3) This one I sort of disagree with. Yes, Bond does act his way through a number of circumstances, but he always knows enough to recognize the legitimate threats and figure out how to shut them down (e.g. which lever to pull to shut down the nuclear reactor). Moreover, when standing in front of an expert, it's imperative to have a certain base level of skill in order to bluff your way through, no matter how good an actor you are. Otherwise you're counting on dumb luck that you won't have to open your big fat mouth.

4) I was thinking of letting Naruto pass the graduation exam with bunshin and then learn KB later under the instruction of a jounin. The Mizuki thing does not need to be rehashed.

4a) I like this.

4b) I see your point and like your suggestion.

4c) Agreed. I was thinking along the lines of a one-shot senbon launcher in his boot kind of thing. With Naruto carrying several contraptions along those lines.
 

grant

Well-Known Member
#4
I'm not sure it could work. A lot of things from the Bond movies and books applied to Naruto creep close to the kind of super-Gary Stu Naruto that plagues fics. Lots of girls throwing themselves at him. Omniscient morality. Playing around with enemies. Something that I like more about the more recent Bond* is that, unrealistic as he still is, he's more human. A deciding factor could be keeping Naruto limited. He doesn't necessarily know what the enemy is up to. For all he knows this could just as easily be a third party or terrorists outside anyone's control. Naruto's one guy. If he goes looking for fights at every opportunity it doesn't matter what demon he's got locked inside. Lastly I'd suggest a 'forget it Naruto, it's Chinatown' situation. He might know someone's guilty. He might know that if any good world they'd die horribly. But because of something, jurisdiction, politics, power etc. he can't touch them. Basically you win some, you lose some and you have to get on with it.

*I do still have a nostalgic love of the Connery movies. God that voice alone...
 

grant

Well-Known Member
#6
Naruto In Name Only. Similar to RINO's only Naruto's not a Republican.
 

mortalone

Well-Known Member
#8
grant said:
I'm not sure it could work. A lot of things from the Bond movies and books applied to Naruto creep close to the kind of super-Gary Stu Naruto that plagues fics. Lots of girls throwing themselves at him. Omniscient morality. Playing around with enemies. Something that I like more about the more recent Bond* is that, unrealistic as he still is, he's more human. A deciding factor could be keeping Naruto limited. He doesn't necessarily know what the enemy is up to. For all he knows this could just as easily be a third party or terrorists outside anyone's control. Naruto's one guy. If he goes looking for fights at every opportunity it doesn't matter what demon he's got locked inside. Lastly I'd suggest a 'forget it Naruto, it's Chinatown' situation. He might know someone's guilty. He might know that if any good world they'd die horribly. But because of something, jurisdiction, politics, power etc. he can't touch them. Basically you win some, you lose some and you have to get on with it.

*I do still have a nostalgic love of the Connery movies. God that voice alone...
I hear ya.

There's a lot that can go wrong with this in general.

I thought about changing the objectives of Akatsuki in large part due to the reasons you are mentioning. That is, canon Akatsuki is playing Pokemon with the bijuu and everyone knows it, but for purposes of this story, perhaps Akatsuki could be some sort of mysterious terrorist organization with more nebulous objectives that lead to the final goal of world domination.
 

marthf1

Well-Known Member
#9
FinalMax said:
....
1)á James Bond is the boon and bane of intelligence gathering.á Ask anyone in the old intel gathering community and they will tell you that Bond got them into that gig.á They'll also tell you that he is the biggest joke in espionage.á Even for the blunt force approach he is supposed to embody, Bond is a joke.á We need to acknowledge that before we can continue onwards.á His methods are too flashy, and the fact he got away with so much crap in the films is more the result of the rest of Bond's world being too damned stupid.á Casino Royale is the notable exception because Bond did get caught and did not really get away unpunished.
....
This is a curious statement to me since wasn't Flemming a spy & used much of his experiences to color pretty much everything that goes on in the novels he wrote? Hmm, Dr. No by film & his twelve novels, according to wikipedia.

If the above is true, wouldn't it be more like WWII & the Cold War greatly changed how spy work was done?

Gah, Connery & Brosnan's first one. So good. Moore was campy & I don't like Craig.


Other than that, I'd say a stereotypical shonen hero would fit reasonably well into the James Bond-archtype. Naruto in particular has a good few traits in part I, though his extroversion would be an issue.
 

Nasuren

Well-Known Member
#10
While it could work...

1) Forget what Bond does, if Naruto leaves too much of chaos and calamity in his wake it'll bite him in the ass eventually. Now I haven't seen many Bond films in recent years, but you forget that Naruto is based of more of a feudal era than a modern one. Meaning if he blows shit up he still have to make a run on the border on foot.

Then it comes down to the formula: He runs away like a ninja, he's easier to track but has to beware coming across enemies in the way. The reverse is that he actually tries to blend in, but there in lies problems of his own.

2) The fact that nobody ever attempted to sneak in a host and Bijuudama a village would usually mean there's a reason for them not to. Meaning there's usually a dangerous reason for a host NOT to try.

3) Naruto would literally have to step it up a bit in the bluff department. A rice merchant who pays attention to army movements in order to help sell rice about one thing, but if said merchant starts talking about seals (as an example) would immediantly be suspicious unless he can correctly bluff a reason why'd he'd be interested.

4) a) & b)While the majority are good ideas, Naruto would eventually encounter a sensor. This would eventually lead to some difficult problems when even henge might tip off his adversaries.

While it might seem tough, if Naruto can infiltrate with a sensor is around, it might be a good reason as to why a valuable Jinchuriki is doing such missions.

C) While a car that turns into a sub would be out of place here, more simplistic devices would work. Anybody remeber that dart thing that Snake Pliskin used to escape the Surgeon General in Escape from LA?
 

Leonite

Well-Known Member
#11
With combat pragmatism, you could technically have that work with the Henge battle... if you had two people.

What do I mean? Well remember in the Zabuza fight, Naruto and Sasuke, on the spot, improvised a weapon out of a henge'd Naruto and using it in a plan. if two ninja that are skilled in Henge were fighting, they could transform one at a time into weapons or objects. Need to deploy an Ame senbon umbrella? Transform into something small, get your ally to throw you in the air, bigger impact radius. Need to distract an opponent to hit him in a blind spot? Use clones while the real copy transforms into a kunai, shuriken or something else, the ally throws them at the foe, who dodges, then they transform back and hit the guy in the blind spot. And so on.
 
#12
Leonite said:
With combat pragmatism, you could technically have that work with the Henge battle... if you had two people.

What do I mean? Well remember in the Zabuza fight, Naruto and Sasuke, on the spot, improvised a weapon out of a henge'd Naruto and using it in a plan. if two ninja that are skilled in Henge were fighting, they could transform one at a time into weapons or objects. Need to deploy an Ame senbon umbrella? Transform into something small, get your ally to throw you in the air, bigger impact radius. Need to distract an opponent to hit him in a blind spot? Use clones while the real copy transforms into a kunai, shuriken or something else, the ally throws them at the foe, who dodges, then they transform back and hit the guy in the blind spot. And so on.
If you can do it sealless, then you've got endless possibilities.

Henge into a version of yourself with longer arms mid-punch, like the Naruto from People Lie was trying to. Henge into a version of yourself that doesn't have stab wounds. (Henge is not dispelled under a punch, and has physical properties, so...why wouldn't this work?) Henge into a smaller dude mid-fight to dodge.

Polymorph any Object is an 8th level spell for a reason - even if we assume that you need to be of similar mass. Or maybe you just need lots of chakra? If you can go bigger, fuck it, turn into the Kyuubi, win off of people running away.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#13
Honestly, just have Naruto master seal-less basic three and he's a fucking beast of a monster just by using his head.
 

grant

Well-Known Member
#14
mortalone said:
grant said:
I'm not sure it could work. A lot of things from the Bond movies and books applied to Naruto creep close to the kind of super-Gary Stu Naruto that plagues fics. Lots of girls throwing themselves at him. Omniscient morality. Playing around with enemies. Something that I like more about the more recent Bond* is that, unrealistic as he still is, he's more human. A deciding factor could be keeping Naruto limited. He doesn't necessarily know what the enemy is up to. For all he knows this could just as easily be a third party or terrorists outside anyone's control. Naruto's one guy. If he goes looking for fights at every opportunity it doesn't matter what demon he's got locked inside. Lastly I'd suggest a 'forget it Naruto, it's Chinatown' situation. He might know someone's guilty. He might know that if any good world they'd die horribly. But because of something, jurisdiction, politics, power etc. he can't touch them. Basically you win some, you lose some and you have to get on with it.

*I do still have a nostalgic love of the Connery movies. God that voice alone...
I hear ya.

There's a lot that can go wrong with this in general.

I thought about changing the objectives of Akatsuki in large part due to the reasons you are mentioning. That is, canon Akatsuki is playing Pokemon with the bijuu and everyone knows it, but for purposes of this story, perhaps Akatsuki could be some sort of mysterious terrorist organization with more nebulous objectives that lead to the final goal of world domination.
Too many 'terrorist organization somehow wants to take over the world' stories in fanfics and in professional fiction. Real world terrorist organizations are often unrealistic* but they're still far more limited in their goals, such as leading uprisings against corrupt secular leaders and reestablishing a theocracy in the region. Maybe separatists created by the instability of war, anti-Konoha terrorists covertly backed by other villages**. Or how about Akatsuki revering the Beasts and see them being treated in this manner (and sealed in unworthy hosts) as blasphemy.


*The most realistic ones are the nationalists in my opinion.
** I'd suggest changing that to cities actually. You can't really take villages seriously.

This is a curious statement to me since wasn't Flemming a spy & used much of his experiences to color pretty much everything that goes on in the novels he wrote? Hmm, Dr. No by film & his twelve novels, according to wikipedia.

If the above is true, wouldn't it be more like WWII & the Cold War greatly changed how spy work was done?

Gah, Connery & Brosnan's first one. So good. Moore was campy & I don't like Craig.


Other than that, I'd say a stereotypical shonen hero would fit reasonably well into the James Bond-archtype. Naruto in particular has a good few traits in part I, though his extroversion would be an issue.
Flemming was apparently in naval intelligence and was involved in some planning for special operations, but U.K. intelligence around that time (and previously) was not like James Bond. Regular spies were considered good if they could watch trains and calculate how many soldiers were being sent where, not rushing into a command center and shooting someone. The special operations had the common sense notion that you get in, you shoot whatever needs shot and you get the hell out without sticking around to flirt with the nurse. While some of Bond was based on WWI spies, I think a good deal of it was more about excitement and wish fulfillment.

Sadly if you want an idea of real intelligence work, le Carre is a better source.

Getting to the point, Naruto could either be regular intelligence or spec ops (probably more the latter) but not both. That involves different training and different objectives.
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
#15
Hardcore Heathen said:
Leonite said:
With combat pragmatism, you could technically have that work with the Henge battle... if you had two people.

What do I mean? Well remember in the Zabuza fight, Naruto and Sasuke, on the spot, improvised a weapon out of a henge'd Naruto and using it in a plan. if two ninja that are skilled in Henge were fighting, they could transform one at a time into weapons or objects. Need to deploy an Ame senbon umbrella? Transform into something small, get your ally to throw you in the air, bigger impact radius. Need to distract an opponent to hit him in a blind spot? Use clones while the real copy transforms into a kunai, shuriken or something else, the ally throws them at the foe, who dodges, then they transform back and hit the guy in the blind spot. And so on.
If you can do it sealless, then you've got endless possibilities.

Henge into a version of yourself with longer arms mid-punch, like the Naruto from People Lie was trying to. Henge into a version of yourself that doesn't have stab wounds. (Henge is not dispelled under a punch, and has physical properties, so...why wouldn't this work?) Henge into a smaller dude mid-fight to dodge.

Polymorph any Object is an 8th level spell for a reason - even if we assume that you need to be of similar mass. Or maybe you just need lots of chakra? If you can go bigger, fuck it, turn into the Kyuubi, win off of people running away.
Transformation is a basic skill taught to young ninja hopefuls in just how to use their chakra. Presuming you could transform into a version of you that as longer arms, the absolute last place you'd want to do it is in the middle of throwing a punch, since you're much more likely to miss, or if you somehow do, it won't carry anywhere near the same intended power -- it'd be like someone suddenly pushing you forward while punching. You may as well just be long-armed the whole fight.

And, as I've pointed out, you're only taking a superficial form of something. Iruka transformed into Naruto, who obviously didn't have any wounds. However, on the inside, Iruka still has his wounds, and yes, he did feel them just from tackling Mizuki pretending to be him -- remember him flopping against the tree afterwards? Dude just pulled a fuma shuriken out of his back -- that bitch HURT.

Also, we KNOW that you have to summon the image of whatever you're going to transform into... which isn't going to be a super luxury of thinking "transform into someone with longer arms" whie punching "transform into shorter dude" while trying to not get hit. Breaking one's concentration will end the technique, and like I said, if you want to dodge like a short dude, you're setting yourself up for a screwing, since short people don't move the same way as tall people. Plus, it'd be hella easier just to drop to the ground.

So, really, why are we trying to break Transformation again? You don't truly "become" anything, you just take its form. It doesn't cancel out injuries, you just look the part. The moment you lose concentration -- BLAM, it's over, canceled, done.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
#16
On the other hand, Gamabunta asks Naruto to transform them into something with teeth and claws to grab onto the One-Tails with.
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
#17
nick012000 said:
On the other hand, Gamabunta asks Naruto to transform them into something with teeth and claws to grab onto the One-Tails with.
:mellow:

As much as I talk about this in the past, let me clarify. You take on the physical shape of whatever you transform into.

That's the extent of it.

You do not actually become, say, a PS3 so you can play Call of Duty; you're just packaging yourself into its shape. Why you would not work as a PS3 is numerous, but I'll just sum up my favorite answer -- you would not survive being plugged into a wall socket. Or, a pencil sharpener, if you turned yourself into a pencil.

You make look convincing as hell, but in the end you're still a sentient being that shifted themselves into a form and still retain awareness of your surroundings.
 

Leonite

Well-Known Member
#18
Yes, but even then you become more broken. Take on the form of a metal table? It might hurt a bit but the enemy just got hit by a metal table, they're probably hurting more than you are. And even then, theres still the oppitunity for Zabuza fight type techniques.
 

mortalone

Well-Known Member
#19
The answer to that would be that even if you transform into a metal table, you are not actually made of metal, so you do not inflict damage as if made of metal, nor do you resist it as if made of metal.

That's not to say henge is worthless in a fight -- as you pointed out with the Zabuza battle.
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
#20
mortalone said:
The answer to that would be that even if you transform into a metal table, you are not actually made of metal, so you do not inflict damage as if made of metal, nor do you resist it as if made of metal.

That's not to say henge is worthless in a fight -- as you pointed out with the Zabuza battle.
Basically. Transformation is like Mystique in the first X-Men movie. She can duplicate Wolverine's adamantium claws, and they might be able to cut/stab people if used properly. However, just because they look like adamantium does not mean they can cut through foot thick steel or make julienne fries out of Sentinels. Nor can they ever hope to stand up against the real McCoy.

And, while you can find uses for Transformation in a battle, I think most would use it as a defensive choice, like trying to escape a fight, since you have to concentrate on the form you're choosing and maintain it, particularly if it's very different from you, like becoming a shrub. Naruto, ironically, is simpleminded enough to use Transformation as an attack, or a lead-in to a trap.
 

mortalone

Well-Known Member
#21
goldenarms said:
mortalone said:
The answer to that would be that even if you transform into a metal table, you are not actually made of metal, so you do not inflict damage as if made of metal, nor do you resist it as if made of metal.

That's not to say henge is worthless in a fight -- as you pointed out with the Zabuza battle.
Basically. Transformation is like Mystique in the first X-Men movie. She can duplicate Wolverine's adamantium claws, and they might be able to cut/stab people if used properly. However, just because they look like adamantium does not mean they can cut through foot thick steel or make julienne fries out of Sentinels. Nor can they ever hope to stand up against the real McCoy.

And, while you can find uses for Transformation in a battle, I think most would use it as a defensive choice, like trying to escape a fight, since you have to concentrate on the form you're choosing and maintain it, particularly if it's very different from you, like becoming a shrub. Naruto, ironically, is simpleminded enough to use Transformation as an attack, or a lead-in to a trap.
Finger nails can cut people. Hell, what is a talon other than an overgrown nail?

As far as I see it, henge is mostly an infiltration technique. Although battle uses do exist.
 

MinusMagnus

Well-Known Member
#22
You say that. But there are things like Junshin Bunshin (Naruto vs Kiba) wich is basically Akamaru turning into Kiba and being just as strong as him phisically. Then there is Garouga (Kiba vs Sakon e Ukon) wich is basically a scaled up gatsuga made by turning into a giant two-headed dog and using a jutsu without hand-seals.

In one of the games (I know, I know...) there was a whole clan specialised into using Henge in battle.

It can be used in fights, it just takes creativity and practice.
 

mortalone

Well-Known Member
#23
1. Nobody is saying you cannot use techniques while in henge. What we are saying is that you cannot use henge to give yourself unbreakable claws that can slice through anything.

You CAN give yourself claws. But if fighting with claws is your thing, you'd be better off getting a weapon you can attach to your wrist.

2. Juujin Bunshin is a different technique than henge, with a higher difficulty rating according to the databooks. You shouldn't treat it the same way.
 
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