Jump publishes self insertion Dragon Ball manga.

[Contrabardus]

It's pretty unfair to blame Gohan not reaching his true potential entirely on Chichi. Wanting your child to get an education, and find a good job, and generally be a productive member of society with useful skills beyond just punching things are not exactly the hallmarks traits of a sociopath. It's not her fault that she didn't realize she lives in a Shonen manga where a new villain ten times more powerful than the last who is always intent on destroying the Earth shows up every few years like clockwork.

Also Gohan could have ignored his mom's advice and ran off to train pretty much anytime he wanted to after Namek, and after Namek he damn well should have understood just how brutal his world was and how much being strong was necessary. But he has a gentle personality, dislikes fighting and actually loves studying. So it would be more appropriate to blame him for not reaching his own potential, rather than his mother. He understood the stakes better than her and still avoided training his martial arts skills whenever he could.

(Although in the Dragonball Online/Xenoverse canon, he did become a scientist and his widely published research on the science of ki manipulation resulted in a worldwide boom in martial arts popularity among normal people, massively increasing the average power level of the entire race. So his nerdiness was actually a hugely useful thing in the video game universes!)

I've covered most of this already in previous posts.

I would argue that Gohan's seeming aversion to fighting has several factors. Pleasing his mother, trauma from his earlier experiences involving enemies far beyond him, and the fact that he wasn't trained properly to begin with. He got thrown into a lot ill prepared and didn't really fight in a battle he was prepared for until Cell, and even then barely so. Most of that would have been mitigated by him being trained properly to start with.

It's also not really true that he doesn't like fighting. He says he doesn't enjoy it like his father does, not that he doesn't like it at all. I'd also point out that he was in far from a good mood when he made that comment. The adult fighters had been putting a lot on his shoulders for years before that, and up to that point he couldn't really handle it. They didn't have much choice given what they were dealing with, but that probably had a lot to do with why he doesn't care for fighting like the other Saiyan blooded characters. Though, again, if he had been trained right to begin with, he'd have been better able to handle everything that happened before then.

He had a fine time competing in the tournament at the end of the manga, and runs around as a superhero as a hobby. Being a superhero is a strange past-time for someone who hates fighting. Particularly since he has no real reason to be doing it beyond it being a hobby. He doesn't have some tragic past or serious motive for doing it. He does enjoy it, but doesn't like the life and death battles for the fate of the world, which is somewhat understandable. The non-saiyan fighters probably all feel the same way, but still enjoy training and fighting as an activity.

There's also no reason he couldn't still have managed to end up smart and productive as well as a fighter. They aren't mutually exclusive goals.

By beef with Chichi isn't just that she held back Gohan, that's just part of it. She's got all the signs of being an abusive and manipulative spouse. She's also delusional and single minded to the point it's a problem for those around her. She should have figured out what the deal was with the world a lot sooner. I also fail to see how saving the world from extinction level threats is not productive or useful to society.

I would get if she limited the amount of time Goku was allowed to train him for the sake of his studies, but she seems to have actively put a wedge between them and kept them apart. Beyond just the time Goku lost while he was dead. He wanted to train with him while he was young, but she wouldn't allow it. He says this when he first shows up with him at Roshi's place.

Chichi is not a sane person, and never really has been. Even as a child she was running around overreacting and blasting or pummeling anything around her when Goku met her. She was raised by a notorious bandit and thug, and remained pretty abrasive and aggressive. She's a bit more than just overprotective and would be legitimately dangerous as a spouse to anyone but Goku.

 

[Altered Nova]

Gohan not being properly trained was equally Goku's fault. He could have taught his kid the basics instead of letting Chichi pamper him. Also the kid was only fucking four years old. Nobody could possibly have known that the Earth would be constantly besieged every few years after that point by threats that made Demon King Piccolo look like a joke. Goku himself didn't even start adventuring until he was 12.

Fair enough, I'll clarify that I meant that Gohan doesn't like fighting with actual stakes. As you said, he's fine with playing a superhero when there's no danger to him and the casual competition of a tournament. That's why he doesn't train constantly, it's just a hobby to him. But like I said, he should know better. He's been being forced into life-or-death situations every few years since he could walk. It's on him that he doesn't take his training as seriously as he should, not his mother.

Gohan did end up smart and productive as well as a fighter. He's consistently been at least the third or fourth strongest warrior in the series, and never far behind his father and Vegeta. You are blaming Chichi because he doesn't devote his every waking moment to training his martial arts skills like the other Saiyans do.

I don't particularly like Chichi either, but I have my doubts that Gohan would have turned out much "better" with a different mother. Goku wasn't exactly a great parent either, and Gohan did end up being amazingly well adjusted and happy as an adult while still being extremely powerful. It sounds like you think he should have been a clone of his father who singlemindedly devotes his life to fighting.

 

[Contrabardus]

Gohan not being properly trained was equally Goku's fault. He could have taught his kid the basics instead of letting Chichi pamper him. Also the kid was only fucking four years old. Nobody could possibly have known that the Earth would be constantly besieged every few years after that point by threats that made Demon King Piccolo look like a joke. Goku himself didn't even start adventuring until he was 12.

Fair enough, I'll clarify that I meant that Gohan doesn't like fighting with actual stakes. As you said, he's fine with playing a superhero when there's no danger to him and the casual competition of a tournament. That's why he doesn't train constantly, it's just a hobby to him. But like I said, he should know better. He's been being forced into life-or-death situations every few years since he could walk. It's on him that he doesn't take his training as seriously as he should, not his mother.

Gohan did end up smart and productive as well as a fighter. He's consistently been at least the third or fourth strongest warrior in the series, and never far behind his father and Vegeta. You are blaming Chichi because he doesn't devote his every waking moment to training his martial arts skills like the other Saiyans do.

I don't particularly like Chichi either, but I have my doubts that Gohan would have turned out much "better" with a different mother. Goku wasn't exactly a great parent either, and Gohan did end up being amazingly well adjusted and happy as an adult while still being extremely powerful. It sounds like you think he should have been a clone of his father who singlemindedly devotes his life to fighting.

I already addressed your first point. Chichi didn't let Goku train him, he wanted to and she refused to let him. He directly says so.

He might be physically capable of forcing her to because he's so much stronger, but it's also not in his nature, and he's clearly very afraid of upsetting her. I'd go so far as to say he's been conditioned by her to the point that he couldn't go against her in the matter. The fact that he didn't train Gohan is because of her interference, not because he was negligent, he was barred from doing so by her. This continued even after the Saiyans first appeared. Goku barely managed to get away with training him to deal with Cell.

Yeah, Goku is never going to win any 'best father in anime' awards. It's not completely his fault, and he's not really a bad one when he's not being dead either. I'd also point out that he often actively avoids his wife, and that has something to do with it as well. I can't really blame him for that considering. Some of it is him though, and the fact that he's not terribly bright. Still, if not for Chichi I think he'd do better as a father, still not going to ever be the best anime father of all time of course, but he'd probably be more of a father without her there. She does seriously seem to get in the way of that, intentionally at times.

I never said anything about Gohan being another Goku. I'm saying he probably would have been a lot more useful and stronger without Chichi's coddling. He would have had more confidence and would have been able to do more, and would have had some idea what the hell he was doing instead of getting thrown into the deep end without any idea how to deal with it. He might have still been in over his head, but would have been able to cope with it a lot better.

I question whether Gohan would have turned out like he did if not for Chichi. He's a momma's boy, and it seems to me like half the reason he's a 'pacifist' is both directly and indirectly because of her. Part of his attitude is because he wants to please her, and part of it is due to his experiences as a kid that he would likely have dealt with better if she hadn't forbid Goku from training with him. If he had been trained properly, he probably would have been more like Goten in regard to his attitude about fighting when he was younger.

He probably would not have turned out like his father in regard to loving to fight, but he'd also probably be stronger and take his training more seriously. That wouldn't have necessarily prevented him from going to school and getting a decent job later in life.

He's also not in the the top three or four strongest warriors in the series aside from maybe two arcs of Dragon Ball Z, Cell and Buu, and only in the last part of the Cell arc. During the Buu saga he's well below Goku and Vegeta's level at that.

Super makes it abundantly clear that he's far, far behind Goku and Vegeta, and that's why they don't take him to the tournament in Super. He's gotten weak and has gone soft, and Piccolo is probably stronger than him in Super. Trunks and Goten are probably each individually stronger than he is as well, even if only by a little. He's fallen a long way and it comes up several times in Super that he has. He ends up next to useless when Frieza shows up again earlier in Super and realizes he fucked up by letting himself go after getting curb stomped.

 

[Master of Squirrel-Fu]

...Same goes for Gohan's training with Piccolo. That's what turns him from an enemy with a mutual problem into a tsundere ally later in the series.

I'd also be sure to cock block Chichi and set Goku up with someone else....

You understand these are mutually exclusive right?




Anyway if it was me I'd probably tag along and train hard enough to be in the same league as Krillian, a solid B-tier fighter.

BUT

Then after Namek when there are Actual For-Real Spaceships available and I was really going to fall behind the power-level treadmill and become totally superfluous, I would take one of the now-available spaceships and fuck off and have a planet-of-the-week space opera adventure across the galaxy.

That seems a lot more interesting, although there's probably a huge chaotic power vacuum with Freeza gone, I also wouldn't really have to worry about getting my face smashed in.

Not necessarily, if Piccolo trains whatever kid fills Gohan's role the result would likely be similar. There would probably still be a Gohan given my premise, it just wouldn't be Chichi's son, and he'd likely be more confident and better able to deal with training and being under fire. Goku named him after his grandfather after all, on the only reason I see that the name might change that is if "Gohan" was born a girl.

I also see no reason that would affect the child's potential given Pan's apparent abilities.

Even if not, I would not likely be celibate, and would likely try to manipulate things so that Piccolo trained whatever half saiyan there was. I don't see any good reason to think that Gohan in particular was the cause of it, but rather Piccolo being forced to look after and take care of someone for a while and learning to care about someone else. It just happened to be Gohan.

Honestly, I think things would still pan out the same way eventually even if he didn't have to train someone that way. Piccolo being forced to merge with both Nail and Kami helped with that a lot as well, plus he does grow to like the other Z fighters eventually. Even if he did stay evil for a while, which I doubt he would after the events of Namek, he wouldn't be much of a threat, if only because things like Cell and Buu would keep forcing him to side with the others for the sake of his own self preservation. Even during the time between he wouldn't be anything that the Saiyans couldn't handle, that's why he merged with Kami to begin with, because he'd hit a wall and couldn't keep up with everyone else to fight Cell without merging again.

Gohan accelerated this process, but I don't think he was the only cause in the end. He'd still calm down, just not as quickly or dramatically.

I still have no idea where you're pulling Sociopathic from, since you're not giving anymore evidence that isn't highly subjective and hasn't already been reasonably argued against. And honestly, if you're planning on just coldblooded murdering her as a child, for things she hasn't done yet which aren't even heinous crimes that need to be stopped then that pretty much makes that person far more horrible than they claim her to be.

Seriously, if you don't like her just leave her alone or direct her somewhere fucking else, but going out of your way to hunt her down and plan out a way to murder her because she acts like a bitch and doesn't let her son have fun is far more fucking monstrous than any accusations that could be leveled at her.


EDIT: honestly this is the kind of shit I'd expect from a Perfect Lionheart SI, wanting to kill characters because they weren't 100% supportive to the hero and think it's okay because they were obviously terrible human beings.

 

[Contrabardus]

...Same goes for Gohan's training with Piccolo. That's what turns him from an enemy with a mutual problem into a tsundere ally later in the series.

I'd also be sure to cock block Chichi and set Goku up with someone else....

You understand these are mutually exclusive right?




Anyway if it was me I'd probably tag along and train hard enough to be in the same league as Krillian, a solid B-tier fighter.

BUT

Then after Namek when there are Actual For-Real Spaceships available and I was really going to fall behind the power-level treadmill and become totally superfluous, I would take one of the now-available spaceships and fuck off and have a planet-of-the-week space opera adventure across the galaxy.

That seems a lot more interesting, although there's probably a huge chaotic power vacuum with Freeza gone, I also wouldn't really have to worry about getting my face smashed in.

Not necessarily, if Piccolo trains whatever kid fills Gohan's role the result would likely be similar. There would probably still be a Gohan given my premise, it just wouldn't be Chichi's son, and he'd likely be more confident and better able to deal with training and being under fire. Goku named him after his grandfather after all, on the only reason I see that the name might change that is if "Gohan" was born a girl.

I also see no reason that would affect the child's potential given Pan's apparent abilities.

Even if not, I would not likely be celibate, and would likely try to manipulate things so that Piccolo trained whatever half saiyan there was. I don't see any good reason to think that Gohan in particular was the cause of it, but rather Piccolo being forced to look after and take care of someone for a while and learning to care about someone else. It just happened to be Gohan.

Honestly, I think things would still pan out the same way eventually even if he didn't have to train someone that way. Piccolo being forced to merge with both Nail and Kami helped with that a lot as well, plus he does grow to like the other Z fighters eventually. Even if he did stay evil for a while, which I doubt he would after the events of Namek, he wouldn't be much of a threat, if only because things like Cell and Buu would keep forcing him to side with the others for the sake of his own self preservation. Even during the time between he wouldn't be anything that the Saiyans couldn't handle, that's why he merged with Kami to begin with, because he'd hit a wall and couldn't keep up with everyone else to fight Cell without merging again.

Gohan accelerated this process, but I don't think he was the only cause in the end. He'd still calm down, just not as quickly or dramatically.

I still have no idea where you're pulling Sociopathic from, since you're not giving anymore evidence that isn't highly subjective and hasn't already been reasonably argued against. And honestly, if you're planning on just coldblooded murdering her as a child, for things she hasn't done yet which aren't even heinous crimes that need to be stopped then that pretty much makes that person far more horrible than they claim her to be.

Seriously, if you don't like her just leave her alone or direct her somewhere fucking else, but going out of your way to hunt her down and plan out a way to murder her because she acts like a bitch and doesn't let her son have fun is far more fucking monstrous than any accusations that could be leveled at her.


EDIT: honestly this is the kind of shit I'd expect from a Perfect Lionheart SI, wanting to kill characters because they weren't 100% supportive to the hero and think it's okay because they were obviously terrible human beings.

You haven't read enough of the thread. All of this has already been addressed.

There was certainly no mention of hunting her down and killing her as a child. The plan stated -was- to direct her elsewhere or derail things before Goku got himself into that mess. Killing her was always a last resort option, and it was specifically mentioned that if it came to that it would be before she shows up at the Tenka Ichi Budokai, when she's grown up.

She's a problem throughout the series in various ways, and it was explained what the signs she's abusive are. Most of the people she knows are afraid of her and go out of their way to avoid upsetting her. Most of her family and husband's friends walk on eggshells around her because of her temper.

She literally puts the entire world in danger because of her obsessive aversion to martial arts training. I'm not just talking about her son here, but Goku as well. She's attempted to stop him at several times well beyond the point she should know better. Planet killing shit drops on the world every few years, and it is always more powerful and dangerous than whatever came before it.

She also bullies Goku, not physically of course, but verbally. She also frequently makes efforts to push him away from his family. It's gotten to the point that he often actively avoids her, and not just to be lazy and not work.

He's brought home millions of Zeni on at least a couple of occasions so he shouldn't need to work much. Zeni seem to be worth more than Yen, but less than dollars. I believe the prize when he won the Budokai tournament was ten milllion? It's varied from 500k zeni to 10m zeni so I'm not certain of that. Plus, I believe there might have been mention of Ox King helping them out a bit. This is probably what they lived on through DBZ. A lot of the tournament prize money probably went towards the home and land they own.

Even if it was roughly equivalent to Yen, Mr. Satan gives them around $1.1 million USD [100m zeni] worth in DBS and it's gone in less than a few months somehow. Goku eats a lot, but not that much. Especially since he's fond of cheap food like rice and noodles. [Mostly because they are easy to draw and he's a shonen character.]

Everyone in Dragon Ball, with the possible exception of Bulma, would be better off without Chichi's presence.

 

[Master of Squirrel-Fu]

...Same goes for Gohan's training with Piccolo. That's what turns him from an enemy with a mutual problem into a tsundere ally later in the series.

I'd also be sure to cock block Chichi and set Goku up with someone else....

You understand these are mutually exclusive right?




Anyway if it was me I'd probably tag along and train hard enough to be in the same league as Krillian, a solid B-tier fighter.

BUT

Then after Namek when there are Actual For-Real Spaceships available and I was really going to fall behind the power-level treadmill and become totally superfluous, I would take one of the now-available spaceships and fuck off and have a planet-of-the-week space opera adventure across the galaxy.

That seems a lot more interesting, although there's probably a huge chaotic power vacuum with Freeza gone, I also wouldn't really have to worry about getting my face smashed in.

Not necessarily, if Piccolo trains whatever kid fills Gohan's role the result would likely be similar. There would probably still be a Gohan given my premise, it just wouldn't be Chichi's son, and he'd likely be more confident and better able to deal with training and being under fire. Goku named him after his grandfather after all, on the only reason I see that the name might change that is if "Gohan" was born a girl.

I also see no reason that would affect the child's potential given Pan's apparent abilities.

Even if not, I would not likely be celibate, and would likely try to manipulate things so that Piccolo trained whatever half saiyan there was. I don't see any good reason to think that Gohan in particular was the cause of it, but rather Piccolo being forced to look after and take care of someone for a while and learning to care about someone else. It just happened to be Gohan.

Honestly, I think things would still pan out the same way eventually even if he didn't have to train someone that way. Piccolo being forced to merge with both Nail and Kami helped with that a lot as well, plus he does grow to like the other Z fighters eventually. Even if he did stay evil for a while, which I doubt he would after the events of Namek, he wouldn't be much of a threat, if only because things like Cell and Buu would keep forcing him to side with the others for the sake of his own self preservation. Even during the time between he wouldn't be anything that the Saiyans couldn't handle, that's why he merged with Kami to begin with, because he'd hit a wall and couldn't keep up with everyone else to fight Cell without merging again.

Gohan accelerated this process, but I don't think he was the only cause in the end. He'd still calm down, just not as quickly or dramatically.

I still have no idea where you're pulling Sociopathic from, since you're not giving anymore evidence that isn't highly subjective and hasn't already been reasonably argued against. And honestly, if you're planning on just coldblooded murdering her as a child, for things she hasn't done yet which aren't even heinous crimes that need to be stopped then that pretty much makes that person far more horrible than they claim her to be.

Seriously, if you don't like her just leave her alone or direct her somewhere fucking else, but going out of your way to hunt her down and plan out a way to murder her because she acts like a bitch and doesn't let her son have fun is far more fucking monstrous than any accusations that could be leveled at her.


EDIT: honestly this is the kind of shit I'd expect from a Perfect Lionheart SI, wanting to kill characters because they weren't 100% supportive to the hero and think it's okay because they were obviously terrible human beings.

You haven't read enough of the thread. All of this has already been addressed.

There was certainly no mention of hunting her down and killing her as a child. The plan stated -was- to direct her elsewhere or derail things before Goku got himself into that mess. Killing her was always a last resort option, and it was specifically mentioned that if it came to that it would be before she shows up at the Tenka Ichi Budokai, when she's grown up.

She's a problem throughout the series in various ways, and it was explained what the signs she's abusive are. Most of the people she knows are afraid of her and go out of their way to avoid upsetting her. Most of her family and husband's friends walk on eggshells around her because of her temper.

She literally puts the entire world in danger because of her obsessive aversion to martial arts training. I'm not just talking about her son here, but Goku as well. She's attempted to stop him at several times well beyond the point she should know better. Planet killing shit drops on the world every few years, and it is always more powerful and dangerous than whatever came before it.

She also bullies Goku, not physically of course, but verbally. She also frequently makes efforts to push him away from his family. It's gotten to the point that he often actively avoids her, and not just to be lazy and not work.

He's brought home millions of Zeni on at least a couple of occasions so he shouldn't need to work much. Zeni seem to be worth more than Yen, but less than dollars. I believe the prize when he won the Budokai tournament was ten milllion? It's varied from 500k zeni to 10m zeni so I'm not certain of that. Plus, I believe there might have been mention of Ox King helping them out a bit. This is probably what they lived on through DBZ. A lot of the tournament prize money probably went towards the home and land they own.

Even if it was roughly equivalent to Yen, Mr. Satan gives them around $1.1 million USD [100m zeni] worth in DBS and it's gone in less than a few months somehow. Goku eats a lot, but not that much. Especially since he's fond of cheap food like rice and noodles. [Mostly because they are easy to draw and he's a shonen character.]

Everyone in Dragon Ball, with the possible exception of Bulma, would be better off without Chichi's presence.

Again, you're not explaining how her behavior makes her a sociopath rather than just a bitch or a jerkass. There's a rather big difference. As for people fearing her, that's just how shit is in fiction. When a character thinks that they have done something to piss off another character, especially if it's female, they act frightened of their wrath. That's fucking comedy. Most of his friends don't even have a reason to fear her because she's so weak compared to them and doesn't have any sort of emotional or responsibility leverage. It's just fucking Henpecked husband and nagging wife comedy.

And by tenkai Ichi she's till 15-16 the same age as goku, still pretty much a kid just closer to an adult.

They walk on eggshells because most of their interaction with her is recruiting her husband and young child to fight monsters in death battles where they have been seriously injured or died before. The very start of the series of Z has her toddler son kidnapped and then placed into a fight where several of the worlds strongest fighters were brutally killed, and leaving her husband a possible vegetable with how badly he was beaten.

We've already pointed out how from any reasonable point of view of any parent would not want their child, however powerful, to be placed in such danger when there are other people who can fight. You just seem to insist that because she doesn't have the meta knowledge of Gohan being a main character or having the potential to take down fighters his father could not she's malicious.

And lastly about money. It has been shown, twice, that Goku as a kid could eat away the entire Budokai prize in one sitting and then some. When he fought Jackie Chun/Roshi who used the money to buy him a mean and complained about loosing all the prize and again when Tien won and bought Goku dinner and lost the entire prize in one sitting.

Post dragon ball he's not only an adult who can probably eat more, but now she has 2 more voracious eaters from Gohan and Goten. In super they probably celebrated like any poor family that has a windfall, they slurged on stuff they wanted first. If the family went out to eat it's very easy to see them somehow take out a giant chunk if not all of the money eating everything in several restaurants.

I'm not saying Chichi is a good, or even likeable person. And I do think the show probably would have been better off if she didn't appear in it. But to call  her a sociopath and say she would deserve to be killed for not being as likable as the rest is going way to far.

 

[Contrabardus]

You understand these are mutually exclusive right?




Anyway if it was me I'd probably tag along and train hard enough to be in the same league as Krillian, a solid B-tier fighter.

BUT

Then after Namek when there are Actual For-Real Spaceships available and I was really going to fall behind the power-level treadmill and become totally superfluous, I would take one of the now-available spaceships and fuck off and have a planet-of-the-week space opera adventure across the galaxy.

That seems a lot more interesting, although there's probably a huge chaotic power vacuum with Freeza gone, I also wouldn't really have to worry about getting my face smashed in.

Not necessarily, if Piccolo trains whatever kid fills Gohan's role the result would likely be similar. There would probably still be a Gohan given my premise, it just wouldn't be Chichi's son, and he'd likely be more confident and better able to deal with training and being under fire. Goku named him after his grandfather after all, on the only reason I see that the name might change that is if "Gohan" was born a girl.

I also see no reason that would affect the child's potential given Pan's apparent abilities.

Even if not, I would not likely be celibate, and would likely try to manipulate things so that Piccolo trained whatever half saiyan there was. I don't see any good reason to think that Gohan in particular was the cause of it, but rather Piccolo being forced to look after and take care of someone for a while and learning to care about someone else. It just happened to be Gohan.

Honestly, I think things would still pan out the same way eventually even if he didn't have to train someone that way. Piccolo being forced to merge with both Nail and Kami helped with that a lot as well, plus he does grow to like the other Z fighters eventually. Even if he did stay evil for a while, which I doubt he would after the events of Namek, he wouldn't be much of a threat, if only because things like Cell and Buu would keep forcing him to side with the others for the sake of his own self preservation. Even during the time between he wouldn't be anything that the Saiyans couldn't handle, that's why he merged with Kami to begin with, because he'd hit a wall and couldn't keep up with everyone else to fight Cell without merging again.

Gohan accelerated this process, but I don't think he was the only cause in the end. He'd still calm down, just not as quickly or dramatically.

I still have no idea where you're pulling Sociopathic from, since you're not giving anymore evidence that isn't highly subjective and hasn't already been reasonably argued against. And honestly, if you're planning on just coldblooded murdering her as a child, for things she hasn't done yet which aren't even heinous crimes that need to be stopped then that pretty much makes that person far more horrible than they claim her to be.

Seriously, if you don't like her just leave her alone or direct her somewhere fucking else, but going out of your way to hunt her down and plan out a way to murder her because she acts like a bitch and doesn't let her son have fun is far more fucking monstrous than any accusations that could be leveled at her.


EDIT: honestly this is the kind of shit I'd expect from a Perfect Lionheart SI, wanting to kill characters because they weren't 100% supportive to the hero and think it's okay because they were obviously terrible human beings.

You haven't read enough of the thread. All of this has already been addressed.

There was certainly no mention of hunting her down and killing her as a child. The plan stated -was- to direct her elsewhere or derail things before Goku got himself into that mess. Killing her was always a last resort option, and it was specifically mentioned that if it came to that it would be before she shows up at the Tenka Ichi Budokai, when she's grown up.

She's a problem throughout the series in various ways, and it was explained what the signs she's abusive are. Most of the people she knows are afraid of her and go out of their way to avoid upsetting her. Most of her family and husband's friends walk on eggshells around her because of her temper.

She literally puts the entire world in danger because of her obsessive aversion to martial arts training. I'm not just talking about her son here, but Goku as well. She's attempted to stop him at several times well beyond the point she should know better. Planet killing shit drops on the world every few years, and it is always more powerful and dangerous than whatever came before it.

She also bullies Goku, not physically of course, but verbally. She also frequently makes efforts to push him away from his family. It's gotten to the point that he often actively avoids her, and not just to be lazy and not work.

He's brought home millions of Zeni on at least a couple of occasions so he shouldn't need to work much. Zeni seem to be worth more than Yen, but less than dollars. I believe the prize when he won the Budokai tournament was ten milllion? It's varied from 500k zeni to 10m zeni so I'm not certain of that. Plus, I believe there might have been mention of Ox King helping them out a bit. This is probably what they lived on through DBZ. A lot of the tournament prize money probably went towards the home and land they own.

Even if it was roughly equivalent to Yen, Mr. Satan gives them around $1.1 million USD [100m zeni] worth in DBS and it's gone in less than a few months somehow. Goku eats a lot, but not that much. Especially since he's fond of cheap food like rice and noodles. [Mostly because they are easy to draw and he's a shonen character.]

Everyone in Dragon Ball, with the possible exception of Bulma, would be better off without Chichi's presence.

Again, you're not explaining how her behavior makes her a sociopath rather than just a bitch or a jerkass. There's a rather big difference. As for people fearing her, that's just how shit is in fiction. When a character thinks that they have done something to piss off another character, especially if it's female, they act frightened of their wrath. That's fucking comedy. Most of his friends don't even have a reason to fear her because she's so weak compared to them and doesn't have any sort of emotional or responsibility leverage. It's just fucking Henpecked husband and nagging wife comedy.

And by tenkai Ichi she's till 15-16 the same age as goku, still pretty much a kid just closer to an adult.

They walk on eggshells because most of their interaction with her is recruiting her husband and young child to fight monsters in death battles where they have been seriously injured or died before. The very start of the series of Z has her toddler son kidnapped and then placed into a fight where several of the worlds strongest fighters were brutally killed, and leaving her husband a possible vegetable with how badly he was beaten.

We've already pointed out how from any reasonable point of view of any parent would not want their child, however powerful, to be placed in such danger when there are other people who can fight. You just seem to insist that because she doesn't have the meta knowledge of Gohan being a main character or having the potential to take down fighters his father could not she's malicious.

And lastly about money. It has been shown, twice, that Goku as a kid could eat away the entire Budokai prize in one sitting and then some. When he fought Jackie Chun/Roshi who used the money to buy him a mean and complained about loosing all the prize and again when Tien won and bought Goku dinner and lost the entire prize in one sitting.

Post dragon ball he's not only an adult who can probably eat more, but now she has 2 more voracious eaters from Gohan and Goten. In super they probably celebrated like any poor family that has a windfall, they slurged on stuff they wanted first. If the family went out to eat it's very easy to see them somehow take out a giant chunk if not all of the money eating everything in several restaurants.

I'm not saying Chichi is a good, or even likeable person. And I do think the show probably would have been better off if she didn't appear in it. But to call  her a sociopath and say she would deserve to be killed for not being as likable as the rest is going way to far.

I think you're taking this a bit too seriously. Especially considering the world we're talking about. I would remind that Goku himself has killed quite a few people in Dragon Ball. Not all of them were world killing monsters, or even much of a threat to him. I'm not talking about Frieza's men either, but a lot of the Red Ribbon grunts he brought down probably couldn't have really hurt him, and certainly were no threat to his life.

People get blasted out of existence for less by characters that aren't all that evil in Dragon Ball.

Eating out at an expensive restaurant =/= cooking and eating at home. The prize was much smaller at the time as well, only around 500k zeni, and Roshi didn't spend it all on the meal. I'm pretty sure part of that went to a tab and maybe a few pretty girls to keep him company.

If Goku really at that much on a regular basis, farming turnips wouldn't have been enough to sustain him and his family. Despite her complaints, it's pretty clear he and Chichi aren't really that bad off as far as money goes. They own a home and a fair amount of land and aren't wearing old clothes and dressing Goten in hand me downs. He eats a lot, but not nearly as much as you're suggesting in reality. A one off gag is overridden by the evidence in the rest of the manga that makes it pretty clear he's not eating them out of house and home, and certainly didn't eat a million zeni worth of meals in a few months.

Plus, I would point out that Goku and Gohan weren't even at home when she spent all that money. Goku was off training with the gods and dealing with that tournament, so it was just her and Goten.

 

[Master of Squirrel-Fu]

Not necessarily, if Piccolo trains whatever kid fills Gohan's role the result would likely be similar. There would probably still be a Gohan given my premise, it just wouldn't be Chichi's son, and he'd likely be more confident and better able to deal with training and being under fire. Goku named him after his grandfather after all, on the only reason I see that the name might change that is if "Gohan" was born a girl.

I also see no reason that would affect the child's potential given Pan's apparent abilities.

Even if not, I would not likely be celibate, and would likely try to manipulate things so that Piccolo trained whatever half saiyan there was. I don't see any good reason to think that Gohan in particular was the cause of it, but rather Piccolo being forced to look after and take care of someone for a while and learning to care about someone else. It just happened to be Gohan.

Honestly, I think things would still pan out the same way eventually even if he didn't have to train someone that way. Piccolo being forced to merge with both Nail and Kami helped with that a lot as well, plus he does grow to like the other Z fighters eventually. Even if he did stay evil for a while, which I doubt he would after the events of Namek, he wouldn't be much of a threat, if only because things like Cell and Buu would keep forcing him to side with the others for the sake of his own self preservation. Even during the time between he wouldn't be anything that the Saiyans couldn't handle, that's why he merged with Kami to begin with, because he'd hit a wall and couldn't keep up with everyone else to fight Cell without merging again.

Gohan accelerated this process, but I don't think he was the only cause in the end. He'd still calm down, just not as quickly or dramatically.

I still have no idea where you're pulling Sociopathic from, since you're not giving anymore evidence that isn't highly subjective and hasn't already been reasonably argued against. And honestly, if you're planning on just coldblooded murdering her as a child, for things she hasn't done yet which aren't even heinous crimes that need to be stopped then that pretty much makes that person far more horrible than they claim her to be.

Seriously, if you don't like her just leave her alone or direct her somewhere fucking else, but going out of your way to hunt her down and plan out a way to murder her because she acts like a bitch and doesn't let her son have fun is far more fucking monstrous than any accusations that could be leveled at her.


EDIT: honestly this is the kind of shit I'd expect from a Perfect Lionheart SI, wanting to kill characters because they weren't 100% supportive to the hero and think it's okay because they were obviously terrible human beings.

You haven't read enough of the thread. All of this has already been addressed.

There was certainly no mention of hunting her down and killing her as a child. The plan stated -was- to direct her elsewhere or derail things before Goku got himself into that mess. Killing her was always a last resort option, and it was specifically mentioned that if it came to that it would be before she shows up at the Tenka Ichi Budokai, when she's grown up.

She's a problem throughout the series in various ways, and it was explained what the signs she's abusive are. Most of the people she knows are afraid of her and go out of their way to avoid upsetting her. Most of her family and husband's friends walk on eggshells around her because of her temper.

She literally puts the entire world in danger because of her obsessive aversion to martial arts training. I'm not just talking about her son here, but Goku as well. She's attempted to stop him at several times well beyond the point she should know better. Planet killing shit drops on the world every few years, and it is always more powerful and dangerous than whatever came before it.

She also bullies Goku, not physically of course, but verbally. She also frequently makes efforts to push him away from his family. It's gotten to the point that he often actively avoids her, and not just to be lazy and not work.

He's brought home millions of Zeni on at least a couple of occasions so he shouldn't need to work much. Zeni seem to be worth more than Yen, but less than dollars. I believe the prize when he won the Budokai tournament was ten milllion? It's varied from 500k zeni to 10m zeni so I'm not certain of that. Plus, I believe there might have been mention of Ox King helping them out a bit. This is probably what they lived on through DBZ. A lot of the tournament prize money probably went towards the home and land they own.

Even if it was roughly equivalent to Yen, Mr. Satan gives them around $1.1 million USD [100m zeni] worth in DBS and it's gone in less than a few months somehow. Goku eats a lot, but not that much. Especially since he's fond of cheap food like rice and noodles. [Mostly because they are easy to draw and he's a shonen character.]

Everyone in Dragon Ball, with the possible exception of Bulma, would be better off without Chichi's presence.

Again, you're not explaining how her behavior makes her a sociopath rather than just a bitch or a jerkass. There's a rather big difference. As for people fearing her, that's just how shit is in fiction. When a character thinks that they have done something to piss off another character, especially if it's female, they act frightened of their wrath. That's fucking comedy. Most of his friends don't even have a reason to fear her because she's so weak compared to them and doesn't have any sort of emotional or responsibility leverage. It's just fucking Henpecked husband and nagging wife comedy.

And by tenkai Ichi she's till 15-16 the same age as goku, still pretty much a kid just closer to an adult.

They walk on eggshells because most of their interaction with her is recruiting her husband and young child to fight monsters in death battles where they have been seriously injured or died before. The very start of the series of Z has her toddler son kidnapped and then placed into a fight where several of the worlds strongest fighters were brutally killed, and leaving her husband a possible vegetable with how badly he was beaten.

We've already pointed out how from any reasonable point of view of any parent would not want their child, however powerful, to be placed in such danger when there are other people who can fight. You just seem to insist that because she doesn't have the meta knowledge of Gohan being a main character or having the potential to take down fighters his father could not she's malicious.

And lastly about money. It has been shown, twice, that Goku as a kid could eat away the entire Budokai prize in one sitting and then some. When he fought Jackie Chun/Roshi who used the money to buy him a mean and complained about loosing all the prize and again when Tien won and bought Goku dinner and lost the entire prize in one sitting.

Post dragon ball he's not only an adult who can probably eat more, but now she has 2 more voracious eaters from Gohan and Goten. In super they probably celebrated like any poor family that has a windfall, they slurged on stuff they wanted first. If the family went out to eat it's very easy to see them somehow take out a giant chunk if not all of the money eating everything in several restaurants.

I'm not saying Chichi is a good, or even likeable person. And I do think the show probably would have been better off if she didn't appear in it. But to call  her a sociopath and say she would deserve to be killed for not being as likable as the rest is going way to far.

I think you're taking this a bit too seriously. Especially considering the world we're talking about. I would remind that Goku himself has killed quite a few people in Dragon Ball. Not all of them were world killing monsters, or even much of a threat to him. I'm not talking about Frieza's men either, but a lot of the Red Ribbon grunts he brought down probably couldn't have really hurt him, and certainly were no threat to his life.

People get blasted out of existence for less by characters that aren't all that evil in Dragon Ball.

Eating out at an expensive restaurant =/= cooking and eating at home. The prize was much smaller at the time as well, only around 500k zeni, and Roshi didn't spend it all on the meal. I'm pretty sure part of that went to a tab and maybe a few pretty girls to keep him company.

If Goku really at that much on a regular basis, farming turnips wouldn't have been enough to sustain him and his family. Despite her complaints, it's pretty clear he and Chichi aren't really that bad off as far as money goes. They own a home and a fair amount of land and aren't wearing old clothes and dressing Goten in hand me downs. He eats a lot, but not nearly as much as you're suggesting in reality. A one off gag is overridden by the evidence in the rest of the manga that makes it pretty clear he's not eating them out of house and home, and certainly didn't eat a million zeni worth of meals in a few months.

Plus, I would point out that Goku and Gohan weren't even at home when she spent all that money. Goku was off training with the gods and dealing with that tournament, so it was just her and Goten.

Hmm, point.

Honestly, like I said, I don't like Chichi. I'm just nettled at her being called a sociopath without compelling reasons because of behavior that is just bitchy and kinda shitty at worst. It just sounds like exaggerating for the sake of bashing which ticks me off regardless of the character.

 

[seitora]

So chapter two was released a few weeks ago.

https://imgur.com/gallery/nINIk

There's the translated one.

 

[seitora]

And the last chapter for any interested.

https://imgur.com/gallery/VVctx