Nasuverse Kariya's Legacy Ideas

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#1
Earlier this year I came up with an idea to do fanfic called Kariya's Legacy, where a chance meeting with Kariya changes Shinji's life and led to him being determined to protect Sakura by becoming a Spellcaster.

This is done by having his father's circuits grafted onto his soul since he inherited his mother's sorcery trait "Inheritor", but the extensive process has greatly shortened his life. Afterwards he spends a year recuperating with his Aunt in China before he returns.

I still need some help since the Holy Grail War is about to begin, so if anyone is capable of it then can you bounce ideas off the following:

1.) Eastern Magecraft - I wanted Shinji to have a solid grasp of Eastern Magecraft to contrast Rin's Western Magecraft. I already have some things in place, but more would be nice.

2.)Lu Bu - Shinji's Servant for the war is Lu Bu as Rider, but I'm having trouble deciding on his personality. He was a Berserker in Fate/Extra so by virtue of being insane I can't really use him for much as a reference point.

Can anyone make some suggestions?

Link to Current Work
Preview Thread
 

Fellgrave

Well-Known Member
#2
For Eastern Magecraft, my first suggestion would be to consider Onmyojis and their associated legends and pop culture versions. I'm not sure how that would translate into Nasu-verse terms, but having the Ofudas act as some form of Mystic Code might work.

For Lu Bu, I'd say go based on the Dynasty Warriors/Warriors Orochi version. There's enough content there to give you a solid personality and history to work around.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#3
Well, not much is covered in Nasuverse but I've done somethings with it. I had an idea for a Formalcraft that would store mana over the course of the war and then unleash it into a ritual to fire a bolt of lightning, but I'm trying to figure out how to explain in the Nasuverse Terms.

As for Lu Bu, yeah, I can work with that.
 

Fellgrave

Well-Known Member
#4
Well... reinforcing is basically forcing Prana into an object right? I seem to remember there being some Mystic Code that worked ass basically a Prana battery, storing the energy the was forced into it until the user wanted to release it. And Formalcraft could work into the Ofuda idea I had, since the calligraphy must be done delicately while at the same time being charge with Prana for later use.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#5
Leidolf said:
This is done by having his father's circuits grafted onto his soul since he inherited his mother's sorcery trait "Inheritor", but the extensive process has greatly shortened his life. Afterwards he spends a year recuperating with his Aunt in China before he returns.
This probably isn't what you want to hear at all, but... I'm going to be attacking the basic foundation.



The Matou Sorcery Trait is already "Absorption".

Well, basically I'm saying you're adding an unnecessary detail there with the "Inheritor" thing.

The problem...

Who does that grafting? Zouken? There's nobody else that can (Kotomine could but no way Zouken would allow that). The hell does Zouken care anyway?

Who the hell is this Aunt? Why didn't she help Kariya?

Where does Shinji get the knowledge to learn Onmyou stuff?

Well, usually Shinji's Servant would be "Perseus" just going off of details Nasu mentioned in passing like from his first draft and stuff.

Does Sakura also summon a Servant or has Shinji supplanted her as the Matou participant?

If Shinji's basically a decent person, will he work with Shirou? They should still be super-best friends if they never got in a fight over Sakura. Cooperation is practically guaranteed then.

Or Rin? Since he's not despicable she wouldn't object to him personally, right?

If he just summons "The Servant that will help me", then couldn't he get EMIYA as his Servant?

Basically I feel like this needs a couple more brainstorming sessions before anything else.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#6
I have thought those things through and tried to explain them in-story and I have an outline. I'm just not as proficient with some aspects of Nasuverse and needed help on certain parts:

1.) In-story, Zouken is over a couple of centuries old and so it's natural he knows a few people, so he had a spiritual doctor come abroad to do the surgery. Zouken does it as part of his long term goal of breaking Sakura, much like he spurred Kariya on to make him suffer and teach her a lesson about disobeying him.

2.) The Aunt is from his mother-side and has no particular love for the Matou, but she gets involved in teaching him over the course of a year since he's the last living thing from her sister.

3.) The shenfu comes from his Aunt, and he picks up scraps of knowledge from Ryuudou through bribery and hypnotism.

4.) The idea of the Servant is that I wanted it to be Lu Bu and so his Aunt was coerced into finding a catalyst by Zouken. For him, the way it goes is:

* If Shinji dies, it's a gap for Sakura knowing he died because he was fighting for her sake. If Shinji dies by Rin's hand, all the moreso.
* If Shinji wins, well he's got the Holy Grail and doesn't really need any of them anymore.

5.) Sakura is serving as the one supplying the Prana, based on the Shared Mastership that Archibald introduced and reproduced after acquiring the necessary information. He gets that in exchange for some thing more valuable as the Archibald family would have no use for the information and just about everything can be traded in the Clocktower for the right price. The book of false servant is an alternative, but not quite as good.

6.) He and Shirou are good friends, but neither knows the other is a spellcaster. Ideally they would team up, but I can't make it too easy and Saber wants the grail for her wish while Shinji wants the grail for his sister.

7.) Rin thinks he's a good brother, but Shinji loathes her for abandoning Sakura despite the fact that she's the last of the Tohsaka. She's putting herself as a magus before a sister, while Shinji is her brother who became a spellcaster for her sake. He's planning on killing her, but he knows it's not going to be easy and once he learned about the war he sees it as a way to accomplish that.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#7
The newest chapter is up now.

For the next chapter I'm planning have the summoning ritual take place for Shinji, but I feel like I need to alter the text to apply the Shared Mastership for Lu Bu. Does anyone have suggestions?

As for Lu Bu, I want to work in his personality like suggested, a love of battle and a desire to fight to see who's the strongest. He meshes well with Lancer in battle, dislikes Archer but wishes to see who's the better archer despite him being a Rider class, and doesn't get along with Saber.

Somewhere in the story I would like for him to betray Shinji in exchange for the Grail, siding with Caster, similar to how Archer did in UBW, matching his legend.

How do these stats look?
Alignment:
Chaotic Neutral

Stats:
Strength: B
Mana: D
Agility: A
Endurance: A
Luck: C
Noble Phantasm: Sky Piercer, Red Hare

Class Skills
Magic Resistance: B
Riding: A

Personal Skills:
Nature of a Rebellious Spirit: B
Charisma: B
Military Tactics: (?)

Noble Phantasms

Red Hare - His horse that strides in flames.
Houtengeki - His weapon, which has multiple forms.
1.)Sky Piercer – Halberd Form
2.)Cannon Force - Bow Form (If he were an Archer he would have access to Gate Halberd Shot)
3.) Earth Smasher – Ax Form
4.) Mountain Crusher – Hammer Form
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#8
Is it possible for Rin to summon Archer if she uses her pendant, despite Shirou not needing it to be resurrected since Lancer doesn't attack him before he summons?

I was thinking that even if it wasn't used, it would still summon him no matter what.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#9
Leidolf said:
Is it possible for Rin to summon Archer if she uses her pendant, despite Shirou not needing it to be resurrected since Lancer doesn't attack him before he summons?
Yes.

It's connected because it's the pendent that Rin used to resurrect EMIYA back when he was alive as an Emiya Shirou. It's actually part of his equipment as a Heroic Spirit; there was a scene in UBW (I think? Maybe prologue actually) where Rin mentioned that EMIYA had given it back to her, supposedly on Shirou's behalf.
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
#10
That's a who knows I think.

It's a bit of a problem to think about, since:

i. Heroic Spirits aren't dimension travelers (sliders).
ii. This is clearly an alternate dimension, hence there might not be an Archer with that pendant to sympathize with the past (or timeless) summoning.
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#11
Except... the Grail can easily work such a thing. It's fairly obvious that the EMIYA summoned in Fate/stay night was from a different dimension/timeline/whatever than that of the Shirou you play as.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#12
Rising Dragon said:
Except... the Grail can easily work such a thing. It's fairly obvious that the EMIYA summoned in Fate/stay night was from a different dimension/timeline/whatever than that of the Shirou you play as.
Yeah, this. IIRC, the timeline Archer came from had a different Archer, so that in and of itself is a difference, right from the start, from before Shirou got stabbed.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#13
So the consensus is that EMIYA is a given as long as she uses her pendant as a catalyst. Got it.
 

Mu-sensei

Well-Known Member
#14
Or Rin, or Tokiomi, if they manage to become Eirei. Its fanfiction. Go wild, but try to explain the hows within canon limits, unless you're writing crack.
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
#15
Rising Dragon said:
Except... the Grail can easily work such a thing. It's fairly obvious that the EMIYA summoned in Fate/stay night was from a different dimension/timeline/whatever than that of the Shirou you play as.
The summoning was the split point. I.e., it's not that Archer was summoned across universes, 'cause it's not the 2nd, but because he was summoned that things changed. I.e., it's not a self-consistent loop. I.e., the Grail didn't do it, it's just a natural consequence of what was done. I.e., the Grail didn't summon Archer into another universe, which is not fine 'cause not the 2nd, it summoned him into the past, which is fine 'cause the Throne is timeless, and then another universe resulted.

Same effective result, but it's the mechanism that's important, because only one of the two is consistent.

(I say consistent, but it's not really. I can't see how strict time travel can be consistent unless it's self-consistent...)

As for the question, no. You can think of it this way:

The timeline we see in the VN is a supposition of all various timelines that has Archer in its future, hence Rin will alway summon EMIYA if she uses the pendant. However, you can just use some other supposition where there is no Archer, and in that case the pendant wouldn't have any connection to EMIYA because there is none. It's just a rock with loads of mana.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#16
Speaking of alternative Servants, I was thinking of replacing the canon Lancer with his Prototype Version as well since I liked the design behind him more than the original. Well, actually I was going to have Evil Sakura absorb him and then spit him out in this form, but I'm just conflicted on his Noble Phantasms.

I was thinking he would be capable of Warp Spasm (turning him into a berserk state) and summoning hunting dogs, but I'd need the associated legends to go with that. Also I'm not sure if his Gae Bolg should have the one-hit kill since I would be hard to justify not using it when its capable of killing just about anyone and the sheer cost of it being so cheap.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#17
The preview section and fifth chapter is up for those who wish to look upon it. Here

I'm also looking for ideas on what to name Shinji's Mystic Codes.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#18
Leidolf said:
I was thinking he would be capable of Warp Spasm (turning him into a berserk state) and summoning hunting dogs, but I'd need the associated legends to go with that. Also I'm not sure if his Gae Bolg should have the one-hit kill since I would be hard to justify not using it when its capable of killing just about anyone and the sheer cost of it being so cheap.
The wikipedia page didn't have enough material work from?
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#19
Wow, I am an idiot. He reared a replacement for the hound he killed so I can spin it since that's such a huge part of his legend he can summon them at a cost.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#20
Okay, before I move onto the next chapter here's Lancer's stats.

Servant Stats: Lancer

Spirit: Cu Chulainn

Master: Kotomine Kirei

Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Strength: B (A- While under Warp Spasm)

Mana: B

Endurance: C (B+ While under Warp Spasm)

Luck: E (B- Due to the protective amulet that he carries his luck is raised.)

Agility: B (A++ While under Warp Spasm)

N.Phantasm: A

Class Skills:

* Magic Resistance C (B+): This version of Cu Chulainn carries on him a protective amulet that further enhances his Magic Resistance beyond his class skill.

Personal Skills:

* Rune Magic (B ): capacity to use the 18 original runes.
* Battle Continuation (A ): The strength of vitality for predicaments. Also, the ability to withdraw from combat and reach allied territory alive after being defeated. At this rank it makes possible to fight even with deadly injuries and can remain alive so long as one does not receive a decisive fatal wound.

* Battle Frenzy (A ): The flaw of losing oneself in the midst of battle. During combat, when damaged a Luck Check is performed. Because of the protective amulet the Luck check keeps the Battle Frenzy from activating with a 1/10 chance. Should he amulet be lost, the chance becomes 1/4 and should it fail Warp Spasm is activated.

* Protection from Arrows (B ): an inborn ability of Cu Chulainn; as long as the shooter is within his line of sight, he can track down ranged weapons with his eyes and defend against them. Does not apply for attacks made from super-long-range or with a great area-of –effect.

* Disengage (C ): The ability to break away from combat. At this rank it has the bonus effect of returning battle conditions to what they were at the beginning of the match


Noble Phantasms:

Warp Spasm: Last Riastrad (Anti-Unit) – The berserker state that he was renown for, it is not manually accessed, but done via Battle Frenzy or Command Seal. Once it reaches a tipping point, all his stats become enhanced but he loses the use of any other Noble Phantasm to enter a state similar to Mad Enhancement until a Command Seal is spent to negate it.

Hounds of Ulster (Anti-Squad) - The ability to summon hound familiar based on the his legend or rearing the replacement hound of Chulainn. He can only summon up to ten per night with the amount of mana available to him.

Gáe Bolg: Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death (Anti-Army) - The true use of Gáe Bolg, is the largest and most powerful attack delivered using the spear. It is the “attack that unleashes countless darts at the enemy” that is spoken of in the legends. It is the attack that made him a hero which utilizes the full potential of the lance's curse, converting all of Lancer's prana into energy and releasing the accumulated power after the spear is hurled, detonating on impact with enough power to blow away a multitude of enemies.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#21
Question: Say Sakura absorbs someone's soul, like she did Rin in the bad ending, would she or Ilya be able to incarnate it using the Grail like they did Shirou and he gets the puppet body?
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#22
My gut feeling is yeah, if she's got it trapped somewhere, she could give it to Ilya and Ilya could stick it in an available body... but (1) you'd need that spare body, and (2) there might be some sanity issues, either because (2.1) Regular!Sakura has started digesting the soul with the Matou "Absorption" Sorcery Trait, or (2.2) Dark!Sakura stored it in the screaming placenta of madness with Angra Mainyu.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#23
I think it would be Dark Sakura, because in my head, after Berserker is taken care of, Shinji calls Rin out in private for a duel and focuses on keeping her at range until she gets close and he calls down a Thunderbolt that she blocks with a gem and then he gets distracted by Sakura and Shirou arriving while Rin throws a Reinforced punch that drives his shattered rib into his lungs and he lays dying in Sakura's arm and unable to say anything while Sakura begs her to heal him (she still has that pendant she used as a catalyst to summon Archer since Shirou didn't get ganked by Lancer) but she refuses on the grounds that he called her out on the duel and he would rather die than accept her help, so she's merely respecting him in the manner befitting a magus.

At that moment Zouken speaks through his familiars and tells her his soul can be saved and the grail can materialize it, but only if she kills the rest. In despair she agrees and resolves to kill them all for Shinji, turning into Dark Sakura and storing his soul inside her.

So basically, I'm trying to break her like in Canon because of Shinji, only this time its because rather than being depraved he was too kind and she was forced to choose between her love or her brother who sacrificed everything for her...
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#24
Yeah but that hinges on cooperation with Ilya, and the Grail wants to devour Ilya from the inside as the vessel....

Ah, how's this?

Dipping a Servant in Grail Juice gives them a Real Body though (some side-effects may occur) (except to Gilgamesh I guess).

So if she nabbed "Shinji's soul" and summoned him into a Servant Class as a Wraith instead of a proper Heroic Spirit, that could be a stop-gap solution until she could get like a pitcher of Grail Juice.

That's an offer the Dark Grail could whisper in her ear, which would allow her to fly off Zouken's rails pretty magnificently?

She wouldn't even have to win, just guarantee the Grail materialized.

Well the human sacrificed as Angra Mainyu just "wished to be born", so I guess there might be a little quid pro quo between Sakura and AM?

...How comfortable are you with doing uncomfortable rapey undertones? Because Sakura's a girl.

...Actually, if AM adds "ah, it's fine if Shirou's the dad", then there's like, no problems anywhere (for Sakura).
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#25
Ooh...your solution intrigues me. Instead of having him die prematurely from the War or the faulty circuits, he would have to live with the constant grating and urging of the corruption from AM as a result of his After-Birth. I wonder what class of Servant he would fall under though, or should I just make one up.

But anyway, after Zouken is killed off, wouldn't letting AM being born = End of the World?

I mean, technically speaking, getting her pregnant won't be the problem. The problem would be how to have Archer, Rin, Saber, and Shirou justify letting her go through with it if that's the case. I was planning on having her regurgitate Lancer!Alter and Berserker!Lu Bu as guards one way or another.
 
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