Nasuverse Let's talk about FRO!

[linkhyrule5]

Caster's curses were "realized spells," something along the lines of a Sarda-style "Make Shirou Come to Me" personalized spell.

Most magi use more freeform "liquid spells" or "prana manipulation" to interfere with people's minds. That sort of thing can be washed away with prana.

Trying to wash away a solidified spell is like trying to wash away a fireball - the thing exists, it's too late.

 

[cjl]

Actually, fireballs can't exist. Fire, by definition, is a chemical reaction. Therefore you can't have a persistent fire without a fuel source. You can have a stream of fuel lit on fire, like a flamethrower, or an explosion of fire, like with bombs, but you can't have a mass of fire moving forward. The most you can get is throwing an extremely hot packet of matter, like a plasma ball.

#physics

 

[daniel_gudman]

Leaving aside the validity of using "physics" to explain magic,

Here's a well-known video of a propane tank going up in a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion).

I think that's pretty much the platonic form of a fireball. That totally inappropriate, cheesy background music is certainly seared in my mind as "the fireball theme."

You can have the same fun just with a pressurized steam system busting up when it comes down to atmo pressure, without the comical pyrotechnics (well, you'll still be pulped by the shockwave and cooked like a poached egg, though, so it's not like you'd survive standing next to that, either).

 

[Olivebirdy]

Fun future themes:

Knights and Towers. Rescue 500 Royals from their dungeons. Storm the castle!

Shoot 'em Up: Not sure how you would enforce or encourage gameplay like this. Or maybe it would simply be set up as a direct copy of a Medal of Honor game, so players recognize it. Barbed wire and barricades and trenches everywhere.

Circus Theme. The way to the Boss is basically a set of trapezes, tightropes and hoops of fire. Only players with Acrobatics, or some exploit, will easily make it. Mobs on the ground are elephants, trampolines are everywhere to mitigate falling damage.

Sea Theme: Two parts. Sea level, and underwater. Encourages magecrafts of air-breathing and limiting water pressure. Pirates and Port NPCs are at war, Players can join either side, two plotlines. Hopefully Diabel works something out so there's no PKing.

Demolition/Angry Birds Theme: Huge huge city, empty stone buildings, immune to fire. Players have to find a way to destroy the city, collapse the buildings, in order to destroy the Boss. Mobs are Orcs with huge helmets.

Racing Theme: Gotta go fast.

Air/Flying Theme: There is no floor, just an expanse of sky. Maybe a floating city or two.

Underground/Tunneling Theme: Molemen?

Pyramid Theme: Puzzle Floor! Problem-solving, out-of-the-box-thinking, and custom magecrafts are king here. Sphinxes are not optional.

 

[cjl]

The circus theme sounds fun.

 

[Prince Charon]

The circus theme sounds fun.

Could be a bit of a 'breather' floor, which they'll need a few of.

I like the Sea and Air floors. Pyramid also probably fits the way Kayaba is trying to train them.

 

[Leidolf]

Knights and Towers: Dark Souls style. Enough said.

 

[linkhyrule5]

I'd be careful of giving the characters flight. Once you have it, it's usually a good idea to use it, but even advanced magi like Kayneth, Tokiomi, or even Barthomeloi don't see to use it. In fact I think the only people we see flying are Caster (which, uh, Caster) and ... I think TATARI?

 

[Hardcore Heathen]

I'd be careful of giving the characters flight. Once you have it, it's usually a good idea to use it, but even advanced magi like Kayneth, Tokiomi, or even Barthomeloi don't see to use it. In fact I think the only people we see flying are Caster (which, uh, Caster) and ... I think TATARI?

Flight is an inherently imbalancing mechanic. The easy way around having to design every future floor with Flight in mind is to set up conditions on one floor so that Flight is really easy, but not on the others.

Example: A floor with low gravity and a higher concentration of Oxygen in the atmosphere (making the air more dense). This gives you a floor with super-huge trees and insects, sort of like what you might have seen around the time of dinosaurs. (Insects have inefficient book lungs, so their "maximum size" is hard capped by the percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere).

 

[Olivebirdy]

That sounds like a really fun floor. Cam you imagine the Familiars you can get there? Of course, they would be limited to that floor, unless the owners can figure out a Bubble-Head Charm. Even better if you can get real dinosaurs.



Gold Rush Floor? Something expensive, limited, to encourage conflict between players?

Martial arts/ Kill Bill themed floor: Self explanatory.

Floorwide escort quest. Every player gets a child/merchant/flour baby/Macguffin. A certain number of these needs to survive a time limit to get to the next floor.

 

[Prince Charon]

I'd be careful of giving the characters flight. Once you have it, it's usually a good idea to use it, but even advanced magi like Kayneth, Tokiomi, or even Barthomeloi don't see to use it. In fact I think the only people we see flying are Caster (which, uh, Caster) and ... I think TATARI?

Flight is an inherently imbalancing mechanic. The easy way around having to design every future floor with Flight in mind is to set up conditions on one floor so that Flight is really easy, but not on the others.

One way to deal with it is to just make the floor where you really need to be good at flying a rather late floor, and then you only have to design a few floors to deal with it.

 

[linkhyrule5]

I was more talking about cohesion with the rest of the Nasuverse. It doesn't really make much sense for flight to be that easy, given that none of the high-end magi we see on-screen use it (other than Caster).

 

[Olivebirdy]

I was more talking about cohesion with the rest of the Nasuverse. It doesn't really make much sense for flight to be that easy, given that none of the high-end magi we see on-screen use it (other than Caster).

Maybe it's just not efficient for anyone without Air Element.

 

[ice2215]

I was more talking about cohesion with the rest of the Nasuverse. It doesn't really make much sense for flight to be that easy, given that none of the high-end magi we see on-screen use it (other than Caster).

Maybe it's just not efficient for anyone without Air Element.

Nope, we flat out don't see anyone flying except for Medea, who obviously doesn't count since she's from the Age of Gods.

Well, the magical girls fly when they use the Kaleidosticks, but that's Fate/Kaleid stuff and isn't canon.

 

[Leidolf]

The best you see (that isn't a Caster) is someone casting a gravity reduction spell and maybe something that generates enough propulsion to keep them lifted off the ground.

 

[Amodelsino]

Modern flight (of various forms) is making an object fly rather than yourself. But said form of flight actually does seem to be pretty easy all things considered.

Well, there's also Touko Travel. Though that requires placing a magical anchor at the destination to work.

 

[Puncak]

From here.

Q: In Overlooking View, Touko mentioned "even I can't fly without a broom", please tell us about the details of the magecraft involved in flying with a broom.

A: Basically it is a transportation method involving using prana as fuel. Within it, there is the Jet Method, which achieves maximum air speed transiently. There is also the low-cost Ether Sail method. The current new method of transportation involves planting a magical anchor at the destination, and the magus will be pulled toward it, like being pulled by a retracting elastic band. This is the Anchor Attraction Ascension method designed by Touko Aozaki (Patented, commonly referred to as "Touko Travel").

... Although Touko was only half-serious there, broom is still a Mystery that is supported by "Magic Foundation - Black Magic" over the entire world. Female magi can easily achieve magical properties such as "foot not making contact with the ground" and "repelled by the earth" when employing a broom. Furthermore, gravity can be reduced to about 1/6 of normal by using an ointment of witchs' which enhances the effect of "repelled by the earth" mentioned previously.

In other words, a broom is an item that enables "hovering". The source of propulsion varies depending on the magi. Nowadays there is a trend among female magi to research new methods of flight. However, in recent years, there has not been any new innovation that could trump Touko's ridiculously sophisticated method of travel.

 

[Amodelsino]

IIRC Rin also mentions that she could just sit in a chair and fly if she wanted to.

 

[linkhyrule5]

... Huh.

... I wonder why nobody uses it, then. >.>

 

[Leidolf]

Leaving aside that it sounds like a troll answer by the creator, who usually has his main characters break the rules of the world to be special, it probably makes you an easy target. Just about every Servant in a war can hit an airborne target that can't move at supersonic speed.

 

[ice2215]

Hugging onto Archer and letting him jump around the buildings is probably quicker than a flying chair too.

 

[daniel_gudman]

Personally, I have the impression that flight in the Nasuverse is not super-difficult in the technical sense, unless you want to do something useful with it.

Like, for example, "tactical" flight like something out of DBZ is super-hard, because it's too complicated to have fine control of your direction of travel and speed. Maybe the spells aren't that difficult, but it's an "easy to learn, hard to master" kind of deal.

By comparison, flight as a mode of "transport" is more complicated and exhausting than just hiring a cab or buying plane tickets, on top of putting yourself in a highly visible position that's dangerous compared to the Statute of Secrecy.

Aerial recon is great, but it's generally better to just use a bird familiar than to be flying personally.

That's my impression of how flight spells work out in the Nasuverse.

 

[Amodelsino]

That's basically the way it looks to me too. Everywhere it's mentioned it comes across as not difficult, but rather basically useless in most situations. I mean, even Medea doesn't really use her (way better) flight for more than being able to sit outside peoples reach. Her actual mobility comes from teleportation.

 

[Nephirin]

Personally, I have the impression that flight in the Nasuverse is not super-difficult in the technical sense, unless you want to do something useful with it.

Like, for example, "tactical" flight like something out of DBZ is super-hard, because it's too complicated to have fine control of your direction of travel and speed. Maybe the spells aren't that difficult, but it's an "easy to learn, hard to master" kind of deal.

By comparison, flight as a mode of "transport" is more complicated and exhausting than just hiring a cab or buying plane tickets, on top of putting yourself in a highly visible position that's dangerous compared to the Statute of Secrecy.

Aerial recon is great, but it's generally better to just use a bird familiar than to be flying personally.

That's my impression of how flight spells work out in the Nasuverse.

The methods described in the previously shown Q&A actually seem like they're designed with long range transport in mind more than short range though? Like, the "Jet Method" might be good for short range bursts of speed, but it sounds hugely prana expensive. An ether sail is cheap to use, but you aren't about to get much maneuverability. The Touko method sounds like it's designed expressly for long range travel and nothing else.

 

[NMR-3]

Makes me wonder how viable Icarus is as a Servant, really.