Nanoha StrikerS / Third Season anime

M

Mr Coin00

Well-Known Member
#26
#26
Have you guys thought that Jail could be an hardcore type IV anti-hero since he did not that that cruel air about him? Yes he's quiet cruel, insane but not very cruel. He might once joyful and happy and lived like other humans but his creators, the Brains, took away the things that he cared for just to kept him in control. So he decided to start a vendetta by starting the destruction of TSBA.

Or He's just affably evil that has great ham.

Still there is a part that does not make sense... Why would he even make a clone of the previous Kaiser just to operate the Cradle? He has many resources, the countless number of drones are one of the prove of it. He could just plant bombs underneath the TSBA's home word and let the whole place explode or wage a war by proclaiming his sovereignty.

He created the clone as if he wanted the Kaiser to rule the whole Dimensions all over again.
 
H

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#27
#27
Mr Coin00 said:
Still there is a part that does not make sense... Why would he even make a clone of the previous Kaiser just to operate the Cradle? He has many resources, the countless number of drones are one of the prove of it. He could just plant bombs underneath the TSBA's home word and let the whole place explode or wage a war by proclaiming his sovereignty.

He created the clone as if he wanted the Kaiser to rule the whole Dimensions all over again.
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Well the Cradle is one fine battleship. If you remember, once it places itself in Mid's orbit and gathers mana from the two moons, it's practically the Death Star, but without the glaring weakness. Who wouldn't want to control such a weapon?

Jail wanted a world where he can freely experiment on life and to do that, he must first make sure that no force can oppose him and a fortress where he would be untouchable: which is the Cradle would be used for. Even if he had an unlimited number of drones, if he can be attacked in any way, then there's no point. It's not like he wanted the Saint Kaiser to rule the dimensions, he just wanted the car keys to the Cradle. He probably attempted to operate the cradle without cloning the kaiser, but failed, so... Vivio.
 
daniel_gudman

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#28
#28
Mr Coin00 said:
Still there is a part that does not make sense... Why would he even make a clone of the previous Kaiser just to operate the Cradle?
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...I thought Jail didn't grow Viveo, that's why he had to go mug the Black Projects group that did when he realized he didn't have the key to put in the Cradle's ignition.
 
R

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#29
#29
Yes, Jail wasn't the one to create Vivio. While he acquired the Shroud via Due, he wasn't able to clone her successfully. Like Project Fate, he open-sourced Olivie's DNA and presumably bought/attempted to steal the resulting clone.
 
N

Nanya

Well-Known Member
#31
#31
Sunder the Gold said:
All those poor, failed little babies...
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Think about the cyborgs and how many babies were experimented on with them.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#32
#32
Rising Dragon said:
Yes, Jail wasn't the one to create Vivio. While he acquired the Shroud via Due, he wasn't able to clone her successfully. Like Project Fate, he open-sourced Olivie's DNA and presumably bought/attempted to steal the resulting clone.
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This raises an interesting possibility. Could there be More Vivios around for Nanoha to adopt?

Also one thing I've been curious about. If I understand it right, Subaru and Ginga were also created by a group unaffiliated to Jail. What makes me curious is Subaru, Her Ability is Perfect to fight other cyborgs. Was it an accident (Super Power Lottery) or was she tailored like that? Because if it's the latter then the only explanation I can come up with is that someone wanted to kick Jail's ass.
 
H

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#33
#33
Andarion said:
Rising Dragon said:
Yes, Jail wasn't the one to create Vivio. While he acquired the Shroud via Due, he wasn't able to clone her successfully. Like Project Fate, he open-sourced Olivie's DNA and presumably bought/attempted to steal the resulting clone.
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This raises an interesting possibility. Could there be More Vivios around for Nanoha to adopt?

Also one thing I've been curious about. If I understand it right, Subaru and Ginga were also created by a group unaffiliated to Jail. What makes me curious is Subaru, Her Ability is Perfect to fight other cyborgs. Was it an accident (Super Power Lottery) or was she tailored like that? Because if it's the latter then the only explanation I can come up with is that someone wanted to kick Jail's ass.
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Vibration Shatter is not just perfect for dealing with other Cyborgs, it pretty much is perfect for beating anything, as even Quattro IIRC states that it can be used to kill normal people with ease. I'm betting that somebody really intended that Subaru ended with such an ability, but not to kick Jail's ass. It would be for presenting a more superior product to the TSAB council, since if you have a weapon that can beat most kinds of defenses, you potentially have a gold mine on your hands.
 
R

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#34
#34
If Ginga and Subaru share the same Inherent Skill, then chances are whoever created them intended them to be very powerful, very dangerous weapons.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#35
#35
Hoki said:
Vibration Shatter is not just perfect for dealing with other Cyborgs, it pretty much is perfect for beating anything, as even Quattro IIRC states that it can be used to kill normal people with ease. I'm betting that somebody really intended that Subaru ended with such an ability, but not to kick Jail's ass. It would be for presenting a more superior product to the TSAB council, since if you have a weapon that can beat most kinds of defenses, you potentially have a gold mine on your hands.
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I see, so rather than cybernetics&electronic destruction ability it's All around very destructive but cybernetics&electronics have it even worse than other targets. Thanks for explanation.

Rising Dragon

Well they Are Weapons, no two ways about it. Just because they could have normal lives doesn't change the fact hat they were built with combat in mind...
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#36
#36
A bit of a Fridge Horror which occurred to me regarding Erio.

He was taken from his parents and was experimented on but later got saved by TSAB. Now the question is Why did Fate adopt him instead of handing him over to his real parents. It would be probably rather easy to find them.

There are two options
1. After they handed their son over they were quietly killed by the kidnappers. They had an "accident" and that was it for them.
2. They denied any and all queries from TSAB about Erio being their son to hide the fact that they had him cloned.

Essentially Erio's parents are either Dead or they rejected him, claiming they are not his parents.
 
K

Kireen

Well-Known Member
#37
#37
Well, consider that it's not exactly legal to clone someone, so, when the whole matter came out his parents would be in in quite a bit of trouble, so it's logic to think that they tried to deny as much as they could.

And they also handed him over without much resistance, so he either doesn't want to see them because he was hurt or they rejected him. I think that giving him back to them would have not been the best choice, and the alterantives where an orphanage and adoption by soeone else.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#38
#38
Kireen said:
Well, consider that it's not exactly legal to clone someone, so, when the whole matter came out his parents would be in in quite a bit of trouble, so it's logic to think that they tried to deny as much as they could.

And they also handed him over without much resistance, so he either doesn't want to see them because he was hurt or they rejected him. I think that giving him back to them would have not been the best choice, and the alterantives where an orphanage and adoption by soeone else.
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I know I'm simply trying to look at this from Erio's point of view. I mean... imagine how he must have felt, first he gets taken away from his parents, then goes through absolute Hell which leaves him almost crippled both physically and mentally and then the parents he loved and trusted, ones he probably wished to come back to are either dead or don't want anything to do with him... Fate really must have seen a lot of herself in him.

Imagine it, he meets his parents for the first time in what is probably years as Fate or other TSAB officer asks them if he is their son and they look away and say "No"...
 
F

Filraen

Well-Known Member
#39
#39
Kireen said:
Well, consider that it's not exactly legal to clone someone, so, when the whole matter came out his parents would be in in quite a bit of trouble, so it's logic to think that they tried to deny as much as they could.

And they also handed him over without much resistance, so he either doesn't want to see them because he was hurt or they rejected him. I think that giving him back to them would have not been the best choice, and the alterantives where an orphanage and adoption by soeone else.
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From what I remember Erio's parents were doing a fairly good job (or at least not a bad job) on raising him so I doubt they would deny him. And with TSAB's policy on criminals it wouldn't be so hard for them to keep custody of Erio, even on a guilty veredict.
 
K

Kireen

Well-Known Member
#40
#40
I dunno about how they were before he was taken, but I remember from the manga that Erio was quite aggressive whit the one who tried to help him before Fate took him, so, considering that he was distrustful about most people, maybe he refused to see them, or they avoided to let the family reunite becuase they feared a viiolent reaction against them.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#41
#41
Kireen said:
I dunno about how they were before he was taken, but I remember from the manga that Erio was quite aggressive whit the one who tried to help him before Fate took him, so, considering that he was distrustful about most people, maybe he refused to see them, or they avoided to let the family reunite becuase they feared a viiolent reaction against them.
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Well as I said, he went through hell and was severely unhinged before Fate took care of him. Still the fact that there is no mention of his parents even after he recovered... well the situation looks pretty grim.
 
K

Kireen

Well-Known Member
#42
#42
I'd simply label that as 'the authors were too focussed on Teana and Subaru to give him a good background', but considering how you are trying to see this, it's pretty grim indeed, like most things in this verse that they never explained and will never be.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#43
#43
Kireen said:
I'd simply label that as 'the authors were too focussed on Teana and Subaru to give him a good background', but considering how you are trying to see this, it's pretty grim indeed, like most things in this verse that they never explained and will never be.
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[chuckles] Yeah I always said that Nanoverse has potential to be as grim and nasty as Nasuverse, we just never see the full extent of the darkness which lurks underneath that cute and optimistic story.
 
H

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#44
#44
If you think Erio's case is bad, what about Caro's? She was exiled from her clan at a young age simply because she's too powerful. Who knows how long she wandered dimensional space alone (well technically she has Fried but still) before being found by the TSAB. We never get to see her parents too.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#45
#45
Hoki said:
If you think Erio's case is bad, what about Caro's? She was exiled from her clan at a young age simply because she's too powerful. Who knows how long she wandered dimensional space alone (well technically she has Fried but still) before being found by the TSAB. We never get to see her parents too.
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I was under an impression that her clan simply handed her over to TSAB... I might be wrong though. And her parents... who knows if they weren't killed by one of those rampaging dragons...
 
H

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#46
#46
Andarion said:
Hoki said:
If you think Erio's case is bad, what about Caro's? She was exiled from her clan at a young age simply because she's too powerful. Who knows how long she wandered dimensional space alone (well technically she has Fried but still) before being found by the TSAB. We never get to see her parents too.
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I was under an impression that her clan simply handed her over to TSAB... I might be wrong though. And her parents... who knows if they weren't killed by one of those rampaging dragons...
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Then she really is worse off, since if that was the case, she was responsible for her parents' and several others' deaths, although not by her own fault.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#47
#47
Hoki said:
Then she really is worse off, since if that was the case, she was responsible for her parents' and several others' deaths, although not by her own fault.
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Well she is almost definitely responsible for some injuries, probably deaths too. Her dragons did go berserker at least once or twice...
 
H

Hoki

Well-Known Member
#48
#48
Andarion said:
Hoki said:
Then she really is worse off, since if that was the case, she was responsible for her parents' and several others' deaths, although not by her own fault.
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Well she is almost definitely responsible for some injuries, probably deaths too. Her dragons did go berserker at least once or twice...
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Looks like out of all the forwards, only Subaru had it easy.
 
A

Andarion

Well-Known Member
#49
#49
Hoki said:
Looks like out of all the forwards, only Subaru had it easy.
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[chuckles] Did she? Cloned and created for combat, going through painful surgeries to replace majority of her body with cybernetic implants. Forced to train how to fight and kill. And I sincerely doubt the scientists who made her and Ginga were as loving and caring as Jail was to his daughters.
 
K

Kireen

Well-Known Member
#50
#50
Yeah, all the Forwards had it rough, looking at the main cast, more or less only Nanoha doesn't have a tragic past, it could have been, but in the end evrything was solved.
 
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