Naruto Naruto Canon Tweaks
- Thread starter Knyght
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nixofcyzerra said:
It's not that big an explosion... that's mostly water. Hell Itachi's just standing there, a few meters away from it, chill as f*ck.
And for all we know, the power of the jutsu's explosion could even be fixed, so Naruto wouldn't be able to supercharge the hell out of them.
Rasenshuriken has more kill, IMO.
Yeah, that one explosion ain't that big, but multiply it by one hundred or even one thousand clones and it's a whole different story.
And while rasenshuriken and bijuudama are indeed far more impressive jutsu, they also require Naruto to master wind transformation + senjutsu and/or master kyuubi chakra mode + befriend kurama to use properly. Great Clone Explosion is a simpler jutsu that he could potentially be capable of using even in Part 1 of the manga, so it's an easy way to power Naruto up and create divergences early on.
Judging by the rarity of explosive tag usage in the manga, I've long assumed that crafting them is a time-consuming process. So buying them is expensive and most ninja don't find it worth the effort to make more than a few of them at a time.
Konan would be the exception, because her telekinetic control over paper would let her mass produce those suckers thousands of times faster than normal.
Konan would be the exception, because her telekinetic control over paper would let her mass produce those suckers thousands of times faster than normal.
Oh damn, you're right. I totally missed that Itachi used a defensive Suiton jutsu.
Except it wouldn't be one big explosion. Unless Naruto can dog-pile 1000 or so clones on his opponent, which is unlikely considering that Naruto starts fighting S-rank enemies pretty early on, it'd be thousands of smaller explosions diffused over a large area. Good for wide-spread destruction, or even huge targets like Tailed Beasts, but not for single human-sized targets. Kakuzu for example, with his Earth Release: Earth Spear would probably be able to move right through an explosion from a Bunshin Daibakuha without flinching. Anyone in Sage Mode, anyone using Lightning Release Chakra Mode, etc. Hell Orochimaru could probably just shrug it off, considering that he tanks a punch from Tsunade.
True, although it is an A-rank Jutsu, same as the Rasengan and Chidori. As for divergences, well... Naruto froze up against the Demon Brothers, if he'd used it against Haku in the Ice Mirrors when Sasuke was right next to him, well... Forest of Death against Orochimaru probably wouldn't make that much difference, though he could have blown that giant snake to hell, using it against Kiba would be overkill and not something you should use on a comrade, Neji's Kaiten could probably negate most of the explosion, though Naruto could use it to knock Neji around, it would definitely come in handy against Gaara... Kabuto's on Kakashi's level and is probably too wily to be caught by it, Kimimaro's Shikotsumyaku basically makes him Wolverine in terms of durability even before he whips out sub-dermal harder-than-steel bone armor and merging with bone spikes, and Sasuke at the VotE would have probably seen Naruto use the technique often enough that he'd have an idea of how to counter it.
It's a great technique, but saying that Naruto would be unstoppable is a bit much, and I think eventually Naruto would move on to bigger gun.
Naruto just needs one tag. After all, Kage Bunshin copies everything the user has on them.
Except it wouldn't be one big explosion. Unless Naruto can dog-pile 1000 or so clones on his opponent, which is unlikely considering that Naruto starts fighting S-rank enemies pretty early on, it'd be thousands of smaller explosions diffused over a large area. Good for wide-spread destruction, or even huge targets like Tailed Beasts, but not for single human-sized targets. Kakuzu for example, with his Earth Release: Earth Spear would probably be able to move right through an explosion from a Bunshin Daibakuha without flinching. Anyone in Sage Mode, anyone using Lightning Release Chakra Mode, etc. Hell Orochimaru could probably just shrug it off, considering that he tanks a punch from Tsunade.
True, although it is an A-rank Jutsu, same as the Rasengan and Chidori. As for divergences, well... Naruto froze up against the Demon Brothers, if he'd used it against Haku in the Ice Mirrors when Sasuke was right next to him, well... Forest of Death against Orochimaru probably wouldn't make that much difference, though he could have blown that giant snake to hell, using it against Kiba would be overkill and not something you should use on a comrade, Neji's Kaiten could probably negate most of the explosion, though Naruto could use it to knock Neji around, it would definitely come in handy against Gaara... Kabuto's on Kakashi's level and is probably too wily to be caught by it, Kimimaro's Shikotsumyaku basically makes him Wolverine in terms of durability even before he whips out sub-dermal harder-than-steel bone armor and merging with bone spikes, and Sasuke at the VotE would have probably seen Naruto use the technique often enough that he'd have an idea of how to counter it.
It's a great technique, but saying that Naruto would be unstoppable is a bit much, and I think eventually Naruto would move on to bigger gun.
Naruto just needs one tag. After all, Kage Bunshin copies everything the user has on them.
Fair enough, that's a pretty good analysis of the jutsu. I still think Naruto would be able to abuse that jutsu to pretty great effect even if it wouldn't be as directly effective against his opponents as I exaggerated. I mean Naruto is already amazing at using clones for diversions, just using the explosions as cover to hide all his transformations and kawarimi more effectively would be pretty darn useful. Kakuzu and Kimimaro might be able to tank the explosions but they are going to have a much harder time seeing the rasengan coming towards their blind spots through all the smoke and debri and noise.
I have to wonder if that would really work. Copying ordinary shuriken is one thing, but the explosive tags are presumably powered by chakra stored in the fuuinjutsu array, and kage bunshin can't copy that chakra or it's even more broken than I already thought (potential infinite chakra generation). I could see it copying the physical tags but all the copies would be uncharged duds. At best he would have to provide the chakra to power the copied tags from his own reserves so the clones carrying the tags will be much more expensive than normal clones.
Which would still be pretty darn useful, admittedly. Even if he could only copy a dozen tags or so before running out of chakra that's still a dozen instant explosive tags. And who knows how many tags he could clone while pulling Kurama's chakra.
...Wouldn't the Great Clone Explosion jutsu be kind of pointless if Kage Bunshin can copy explosive tags though?
I have to wonder if that would really work. Copying ordinary shuriken is one thing, but the explosive tags are presumably powered by chakra stored in the fuuinjutsu array, and kage bunshin can't copy that chakra or it's even more broken than I already thought (potential infinite chakra generation). I could see it copying the physical tags but all the copies would be uncharged duds. At best he would have to provide the chakra to power the copied tags from his own reserves so the clones carrying the tags will be much more expensive than normal clones.
Which would still be pretty darn useful, admittedly. Even if he could only copy a dozen tags or so before running out of chakra that's still a dozen instant explosive tags. And who knows how many tags he could clone while pulling Kurama's chakra.
...Wouldn't the Great Clone Explosion jutsu be kind of pointless if Kage Bunshin can copy explosive tags though?
Oh, most certainly. Using them as a devastating blow against his less durable enemies, and using them to stun, harass and disorientate the tougher one's. Plus it would be incredibly effective for battlefield control and herding opponents to where Naruto wants them to go. Hell, as I mentioned in knight504's More Jutsu thread, teach Naruto a jutsu for moving through earth as well. Imagine Naruto seeding an entire field with underground Shadow Clones at the start of a fight, and then having them leap out of the ground throughout the battle and explode once they get within a few feet of the enemy. The paranoia factor alone would make the tactic worthwhile.
Or even just having a clone that's just hit home with a Rasengan explode for a little more damage. When Naruto first used the completed Rasengan against Kabuto, if the Shadow Clone that Naruto created had grabbed onto him and exploded while he was trying to heal the Rasengan damage, it probably would have killed him.
I figured that's how it would probably work.
How much chakra do you think it costs to make a tag? It's one of the basic ninja tools, and run-of-the-mill ninja aren't much more durable than a regular human.
Uh, well... Itachi was wary of annoying Konan by frequently asking for tags, so he invented it? He thought that the slight delay of the tag's timer/fuse running down, the time it took for the detonation signal to reach the tag, or the bother of igniting them with a Katon jutsu was too troublesome? So he invented an exploding clone that could be instantly triggered manually by the clone itself?
*sigh* Let me try to think of an example of a clone user who used a special ninja tool... When Kisame made water clones, did the cloned Samehada's ever display any special properties? Minato's Shadow Clone used Hiraishin, but using the marker the real Minato placed on Obito years ago. I'm not sure the clone ever used a cloned Kunai to teleport.
I dunno. I guess Kage Bunshin probably can't do that. The only time I think we see someone combine Shadow Clones with tool use, aside from Naruto's use of Kunai/Shuriken, was Hayate's Dance of the Crescent Moon, and he just used a regular sword.
Or even just having a clone that's just hit home with a Rasengan explode for a little more damage. When Naruto first used the completed Rasengan against Kabuto, if the Shadow Clone that Naruto created had grabbed onto him and exploded while he was trying to heal the Rasengan damage, it probably would have killed him.
I figured that's how it would probably work.
How much chakra do you think it costs to make a tag? It's one of the basic ninja tools, and run-of-the-mill ninja aren't much more durable than a regular human.
Uh, well... Itachi was wary of annoying Konan by frequently asking for tags, so he invented it? He thought that the slight delay of the tag's timer/fuse running down, the time it took for the detonation signal to reach the tag, or the bother of igniting them with a Katon jutsu was too troublesome? So he invented an exploding clone that could be instantly triggered manually by the clone itself?
*sigh* Let me try to think of an example of a clone user who used a special ninja tool... When Kisame made water clones, did the cloned Samehada's ever display any special properties? Minato's Shadow Clone used Hiraishin, but using the marker the real Minato placed on Obito years ago. I'm not sure the clone ever used a cloned Kunai to teleport.
I dunno. I guess Kage Bunshin probably can't do that. The only time I think we see someone combine Shadow Clones with tool use, aside from Naruto's use of Kunai/Shuriken, was Hayate's Dance of the Crescent Moon, and he just used a regular sword.
Shadow Clone is B Rank. Great Clone Explosion is A-rank.
Actually Great Clone Explosion is probably way more expensive, as when a Shadow Clone disperses, the chakra it has left to use for jutsu (and possibly even the chakra used to generate its physical body) returns to the user.
Exploding Shadow Clone probably uses all of what the clone has left to fuel the explosion, so the user wouldn't get anything back. Probably not even memories, as who wants to remember exploding?
Actually Great Clone Explosion is probably way more expensive, as when a Shadow Clone disperses, the chakra it has left to use for jutsu (and possibly even the chakra used to generate its physical body) returns to the user.
Exploding Shadow Clone probably uses all of what the clone has left to fuel the explosion, so the user wouldn't get anything back. Probably not even memories, as who wants to remember exploding?
I think I'd have started Part 1 with these guys:
Ignore Sai...
The main cast would be 15-16 years old instead of 12-13. This would be the standard age of graduation outside of wartime, an age that's more appropriate for the setting and more suited for their careers. It could even tie in with Hashirama's desire to stop little children from fighting battles so it became the standard for ninja to graduate as teenagers or, at worst, children on the verge of becoming teenagers. That'd include characters like Kakashi and Itachi; Kakashi could be 15 or so in Kakashi Gaiden instead. As long as all the timeline changes are kept consistent, I don't think it makes much difference to the actual events. Kishimoto's not all that consistant anyway.
I just think I might have enjoyed it more if the main characters have been teenagers instead of children.
Ignore Sai...
The main cast would be 15-16 years old instead of 12-13. This would be the standard age of graduation outside of wartime, an age that's more appropriate for the setting and more suited for their careers. It could even tie in with Hashirama's desire to stop little children from fighting battles so it became the standard for ninja to graduate as teenagers or, at worst, children on the verge of becoming teenagers. That'd include characters like Kakashi and Itachi; Kakashi could be 15 or so in Kakashi Gaiden instead. As long as all the timeline changes are kept consistent, I don't think it makes much difference to the actual events. Kishimoto's not all that consistant anyway.
I just think I might have enjoyed it more if the main characters have been teenagers instead of children.
Every single female in that picture save Sakura has a ridiculous pair of breasts for someone that active, especially because you know all of them but probably Ino are wearing some kind of sports bra.
We see straight through your wishes, and as an entity I think it's safe to say TFF approves of your lechery.
We see straight through your wishes, and as an entity I think it's safe to say TFF approves of your lechery.
Some tweaks based on the full concept of Tailed Beasts and Jinchuuriki existing from the very start:
The Nine-Tails is introduced as the strongest of the Tailed Beasts rather than an independent entity.
Mizuki tells Naruto that the Nine-Tails was sealed inside him rather than saying he is the beast in human form.
Kakashi and the other jounin recognise the use of Gaara's sand during the preliminaries as the power of Suna's Tailed Beast.
Gaara tells Naruto that he is a Jinchuuriki, the "power of human sacrifice", and is the first to use the official term for their kind. He says that Shukaku is the One-Tailed Tanuki that was sealed into a teapot when Suna was first built and then into a monk. Naruto learns that he is one of the nine who might exist at any time.
Shukaku may not actually have a name at that point and just be known as the One-Tailed Tanuki like all the other Tailed Beasts. So there's no discrepancy between one of them having a name when all the rest don't and no-one questions it.
When the First Hokage is revived, his ability to control the Tailed Beasts is revealed. After killing the Third, Orochimaru's plan to been to use his abilities to control Gaara for the destruction of Konoha and turn him into a pawn.
When Akatsuki sneaks into Konoha, Kisame mentions that it's pretty early to capture the Nine-Tails Jinchuuriki and that they were acting without orders. Itachi argues that Konoha had just suffered an invasion and was at a critical weak point that they could take advantage of, so the potential gain outweighs the potential. So we have a stated reason for why Akatsuki appeared to be moving a few years ahead of schedule whilst justifying Itachi's secret goal.
Yamato's non-existence during the Chuunin Exams for dealing with Shukaku is justified by Orochimaru already knowing of his existence. Kabuto had knocked him unconscious with medical ninjutsu so that he couldn't interfere and stole his uniform to take his place in the stands.
Hmm, I feel like there should be something to justify Naruto not living with the Hokage given how Jinchuuriki usually have ties with the leadership but nothing's really coming to mind.
The Nine-Tails is introduced as the strongest of the Tailed Beasts rather than an independent entity.
Mizuki tells Naruto that the Nine-Tails was sealed inside him rather than saying he is the beast in human form.
Kakashi and the other jounin recognise the use of Gaara's sand during the preliminaries as the power of Suna's Tailed Beast.
Gaara tells Naruto that he is a Jinchuuriki, the "power of human sacrifice", and is the first to use the official term for their kind. He says that Shukaku is the One-Tailed Tanuki that was sealed into a teapot when Suna was first built and then into a monk. Naruto learns that he is one of the nine who might exist at any time.
Shukaku may not actually have a name at that point and just be known as the One-Tailed Tanuki like all the other Tailed Beasts. So there's no discrepancy between one of them having a name when all the rest don't and no-one questions it.
When the First Hokage is revived, his ability to control the Tailed Beasts is revealed. After killing the Third, Orochimaru's plan to been to use his abilities to control Gaara for the destruction of Konoha and turn him into a pawn.
When Akatsuki sneaks into Konoha, Kisame mentions that it's pretty early to capture the Nine-Tails Jinchuuriki and that they were acting without orders. Itachi argues that Konoha had just suffered an invasion and was at a critical weak point that they could take advantage of, so the potential gain outweighs the potential. So we have a stated reason for why Akatsuki appeared to be moving a few years ahead of schedule whilst justifying Itachi's secret goal.
Yamato's non-existence during the Chuunin Exams for dealing with Shukaku is justified by Orochimaru already knowing of his existence. Kabuto had knocked him unconscious with medical ninjutsu so that he couldn't interfere and stole his uniform to take his place in the stands.
Hmm, I feel like there should be something to justify Naruto not living with the Hokage given how Jinchuuriki usually have ties with the leadership but nothing's really coming to mind.
The Mizuki part reminded me that Iruka didn't say that Naruto wasn't the Kyubi but that he wasn't the Kyubi ANYMORE.
For the ties between Jinchuriki and the leadership this can be the thing in favor of the theory of Kushina being high in the Uzumaki clan and Uzushio social hierarchy as being a presumptive heiress or something like this as she didn't have ties with the Hogake.
For the ties between Jinchuriki and the leadership this can be the thing in favor of the theory of Kushina being high in the Uzumaki clan and Uzushio social hierarchy as being a presumptive heiress or something like this as she didn't have ties with the Hogake.
The only reason I can think of for Hiruzen not to have adopted Naruto is if his plan had been for Naruto to never be weaponized or even learn of his jinchuuriki status and just grow up as a normal boy. And normal boys don't get special treatment from the Hokage. The fact that he didn't give Naruto any special tutoring to help him pass his ninja classes and thus presumably was okay with him flunking out and becoming a civilian would seem to support that theory.
Although in retrospect that was a really stupid plan seeing as how Naruto's jinchuuriki status was leaked and he was ostracized by the village, and furthermore that he was eventually targeted by a group of S-rank missing-nin who wanted the Kyuubi and would have been easily killed by them if Mizuki hadn't accidentally tricked Naruto into learning a powerful kinjutsu and getting a second chance as a genin which led to later training that allowed him to become a badass.
...Wow, that's kind of hilarious if you think about it. If it weren't for Mizuki then Naruto would have gotten an early BAD END where he doesn't become a ninja and eventually gets offed by Akatsuki.
So yeah, Hiruzen was kind of dumb and it would have been way better to just come clean to Naruto about why the village hated him, adopt him and teach him the Will of Fire, and give him proper training to protect himself from all of Konoha's enemies who would love to get their hands on his bijuu.
Although in retrospect that was a really stupid plan seeing as how Naruto's jinchuuriki status was leaked and he was ostracized by the village, and furthermore that he was eventually targeted by a group of S-rank missing-nin who wanted the Kyuubi and would have been easily killed by them if Mizuki hadn't accidentally tricked Naruto into learning a powerful kinjutsu and getting a second chance as a genin which led to later training that allowed him to become a badass.
...Wow, that's kind of hilarious if you think about it. If it weren't for Mizuki then Naruto would have gotten an early BAD END where he doesn't become a ninja and eventually gets offed by Akatsuki.
So yeah, Hiruzen was kind of dumb and it would have been way better to just come clean to Naruto about why the village hated him, adopt him and teach him the Will of Fire, and give him proper training to protect himself from all of Konoha's enemies who would love to get their hands on his bijuu.
Well, unlike the other nations, Konoha has apparently never actually weaponised their Jinchuuriki. I guess their habit of churning out S-rank Beasts means they've never really had to.
So if, say, Kushina had flunked her academy tests, she'd probably have just lived as a civilian. If she was a renowned Shinobi in canon, it probably would have based on her own skills (Fuinjutsu and Chakra chains,) and not utilising Kurama's chakra.
Hiruzen wasn't going to worry about Naruto being the Dead-Last, seeing as he trained Jiraiya, who was also last in his class but still became one of the Leaf's strongest Ninja, but if Naruto just didn't have what it takes to become a Shinobi in the first place, then there wouldn't have been much point in trying to force it.
So if, say, Kushina had flunked her academy tests, she'd probably have just lived as a civilian. If she was a renowned Shinobi in canon, it probably would have based on her own skills (Fuinjutsu and Chakra chains,) and not utilising Kurama's chakra.
Hiruzen wasn't going to worry about Naruto being the Dead-Last, seeing as he trained Jiraiya, who was also last in his class but still became one of the Leaf's strongest Ninja, but if Naruto just didn't have what it takes to become a Shinobi in the first place, then there wouldn't have been much point in trying to force it.
Pretty much this.
Sarutobi wanted Naruto to live a normal life, hence why he forbade anyone that could remember the Fox assault to never mention it or that Naruto possessed the demon, and restricted the children from ever finding out about the tailed demons (Kakashi told Granny Chiyo that Sarutobi had all reading material on them removed upon her surprise that Sakura didn't know what a biju was). And while most of them followed the letter of the law, their resentment was picked up by their children, and they, too, were a bag of dicks to Naruto, even though they didn't know why.
And it does seem that Kushina wasn't utilized as a weapon, either, or else, I highly doubt Kumo would have left her conscious (and ironically enough, let her be found and rescued). Whether or not her status as a jinchuuriki was publically known is another story.
Sarutobi wanted Naruto to live a normal life, hence why he forbade anyone that could remember the Fox assault to never mention it or that Naruto possessed the demon, and restricted the children from ever finding out about the tailed demons (Kakashi told Granny Chiyo that Sarutobi had all reading material on them removed upon her surprise that Sakura didn't know what a biju was). And while most of them followed the letter of the law, their resentment was picked up by their children, and they, too, were a bag of dicks to Naruto, even though they didn't know why.
And it does seem that Kushina wasn't utilized as a weapon, either, or else, I highly doubt Kumo would have left her conscious (and ironically enough, let her be found and rescued). Whether or not her status as a jinchuuriki was publically known is another story.
I can sort of see why Dumbledore tried giving Harry a normal life, but I don't think that rationale would work for Naruto, unless he never became a ninja.
As soon as he did, it basically became inevitable that he'd come into contact with situations dangerous enough to require the Kyuubi.
Sarutobi could've held him back from that, but why let him become a ninja in the first place, then?
As soon as he did, it basically became inevitable that he'd come into contact with situations dangerous enough to require the Kyuubi.
Sarutobi could've held him back from that, but why let him become a ninja in the first place, then?
Part of the whole "live a normal life" does involve letting Naruto choose his lot in life. Also, as far as Sarutobi knew, trying to use the Fox's chakra would be a monumentally bad idea, seeing that Kushina's seal had suddenly gave way and left the village in shambles as a result. Of course, when he and Konoha discovered that Naruto could consciously tap into the Fox's chakras and retain control of himself, he was killed the same day and had no chance to try and help him develop that power.
I'm pretty sure Hiruzen knew that Kushina's seal had been sabotaged and Kushina didn't just lose control of the Kyuubi on her own. Obito probably didn't have time to mutilate the dead bodies of all the ANBU and med-nin he murdered to make it look like Kurama had killed them, and the Kyuubi couldn't have summoned itself to the center of Konoha. That's kind of why the Uchiha clan were suddenly isolated in the village under constant surveillance, the top brass suspected they were behind the attack.
That's not entirely right. The possibility of the seal breaking while Kushina was giving birth was always a probability, as that's when it would be at its weakest, hence why Sarutobi sent his wife to help maintain the seal's integrity throughout the process. No would necessarily have to sabotage anything -- just kill everyone that could keep it under control, and let nature take its course.
Also, Obito blew up the building that the delivery was taking place, so without some hard forensic work done on the bodies, one can presumably say the Fox escaped its binds on its own. The Uchiha may have been suspected in having a hand in the proceedings, but that was just conjecture drawn because one of their own is the only known person that could control it (I wonder if they could see the Sharingan in its eyes), and also, from the general reactions in regards to the Uchiha, that was a thought shared by only those near the top brass; the rest of the village didn't seem to hold the Uchiha responsible for anything. In the end, there's not much evidence to conclude that the Fox attack was anything but a fluke of nature that took many lives.
Also, Obito blew up the building that the delivery was taking place, so without some hard forensic work done on the bodies, one can presumably say the Fox escaped its binds on its own. The Uchiha may have been suspected in having a hand in the proceedings, but that was just conjecture drawn because one of their own is the only known person that could control it (I wonder if they could see the Sharingan in its eyes), and also, from the general reactions in regards to the Uchiha, that was a thought shared by only those near the top brass; the rest of the village didn't seem to hold the Uchiha responsible for anything. In the end, there's not much evidence to conclude that the Fox attack was anything but a fluke of nature that took many lives.
Except for the fact (which you conveniently ignored) that Kurama was summoned to the center of the village, which conclusively proves that someone else was involved in the in the Kyuubi's rampage. Sure, they may have just taken advantage of Kurama breaking free on it's own, but the possibility that they may have also sabotaged the seal is obvious and Hiruzen would be a fool not to consider it.