Akamatsuverse Negima manga discussion

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
Well, if revealing the existence of magic would result with me be turned into a rodent I'd probably be up for keeping the secret. At least until I could expose the ermine police and secure some movie rights and a book deal.
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
Reading the final volume of Negima in the US version, it's interesting to see just how much they stress that this is just one possible ending, and there may be others down the road.

Also makes the longest complete series in my collection. Was a long strange trip over the past 9-10 years for this series.
 

EagleCeres

Well-Known Member
The issue goes back to Teh Magical Masquerade, and there're always 2 sides on the Magical side:
- The "Magic is for everyone, share, make everyone happy side and don't be a jerk!" side. (think of the mostly Campy Negima chapters)
- The "Magic is for the elite and born to magic, shut up and get better genes/mana/circuits/blood/whatever into the family!" side. (think of the mostly Dark Negima chapters, ohai F/SN)

There is the fact that discrimination also exists in the Magical World, but it's more based on abilities since those in the know can be of different/mixed races/species (werewolves, tengu, demon, etc) or just plain going with the classic "being a descendant of so-and-so badass =~= some kind of royalty".

We've also been shown there is still slavery and other means of societal control in the Magical World that the "Old World" doesn't normally (publicly) partake of in general because of human rights, differing social moral subsets, etc.

Another of the reasons the Masquerade is kept up is that not all the muggles will believe in magic:
-those that do are more tolerant and/or interested in it and will eventually be in contact with it (ohai Mahora academy and most of it's students/faculty);
- and those that don't, think it's either some ruse, technology or some such activity to cover up something bigger (conspiracy theorists, non magical people, haters that couldn't get/do any magic, religious nutz, non-magical military states, etc).

Although both worlds seem to have the same core issues... some people want power/control, and will do whatever they can to get it.
 
Well, we don't know enough about the Magical world to make general sweeping geopolitical statements I think. We don't know if it's divided into Devloped/Developing or how uniform the advance of technology has been.

Though I do think you're right about both worlds having the same core control issues, that's just a facet of humans, or in this case sentient beings that share a compatible frame of reference, being humans, or sentient beings or whatever.

One thing I did like about Negima was that Magic was much less restricted. Negi teaches those in his class in the know to cast little cantrips without much trouble which is beyond the reach of a lot of masquerades. It seems to point that Magic is primarily a learned skill that Many MANY people can learn to varying degrees.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Can someone please explain how the whole saving the magical world plan worked?

Because I thought about it, and I can't remember properly.

The particulars are a little lost on me at the moment.
 
Basically, convince the governments of Earth to terraform Mars, so when the reality barrier finally falls the magical world inhabitants will not die. I'm not sure about how the various non-humans who are literal creations of magic will fare.
 
IIRC They were going to terraform Mars because magical energy (mana) comes from plant life which will they use to give MM the energy to stave off the collapse.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/mahou_sensei_negima/v33/c338/16.html

Of course there were several things about the plan that just bugged me in general. Poyo Rainyday said the collapsed would start in 10-years while Negi's plan was going to take 30 to 100 years, but this particular issue was never cleared up IIRC. Oh wait-they used Asuna to hold the world together for those required 100 years (how convenient). Creating a bunch drama (such as her not being able to graduate with the others) which was quickly reset within a chapter via Time Lord Chao making it all feel rather pointless. (To be honest I still don't really get how the girl who's main ability is to cancel/negate/erase/whatever magic will be able to slow the magical world's collapse/hold it together-IIRC it was never really made clear what she was doing to prevent the collapse.)
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
That does answer one of my questions.

But another question occurs to me - Why was the Space Elevator necessary?
 
I don't really know. I honestly think Akamatsu made the situation a bit more complicated then he needed too. He left more questions then answers IMO.
 

Knyght

The Collector
To be honest, "more questions than answers" is the phrase that practically summarises the end of Negima.
 
If I remember right, there was some law that was before the Japanese government that would have screwed over manga writers, for the benefit of the big publishing houses. Akamatsu-san decided to end it while he still had full creative control.
 
Which was perhaps wise. Also, a space elevator makes sense if you're trying to spread out into the solar system, it seriously reduces a lot of the costs, or at least front loads them I suppose.

As far as Asuna being the lynchpin thing goes I always thought that that was her natural state sort of thing, that the Twilight Imperial Princess was an integral part of the magic that created the magical world.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
You're right that a space elevator is a good thing which long term cheapens costs for space expansion... But it wasn't needed in the short term goal of terriforming mars what with them having magical teleporters to take them to mars.

So it was a good thing long term but not strictly neccessary.


Also, Ken really didn't make it clear what Asuna was, did he? I mean, I can cobble togwther 70% of the pieces, but I'm still not clear on the whole picture.
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
Ashaman said:
You're right that a space elevator is a good thing which long term cheapens costs for space expansion... But it wasn't needed in the short term goal of terriforming mars what with them having magical teleporters to take them to mars.

So it was a good thing long term but not strictly neccessary.


Also, Ken really didn't make it clear what Asuna was, did he? I mean, I can cobble togwther 70% of the pieces, but I'm still not clear on the whole picture.
Remember, the magical teleporters take you to the magical version of mars, not the real one that needs terraforming.

The two are slowly collapsing into each other. I think the goal is to make the real mars, which the magical spells is on top of, actually able to support life, and therefore, magic, before total collapse.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Antimatter said:
Ashaman said:
You're right that a space elevator is a good thing which long term cheapens costs for space expansion... But it wasn't needed in the short term goal of terriforming mars what with them having magical teleporters to take them to mars.

So it was a good thing long term but not strictly neccessary.


Also, Ken really didn't make it clear what Asuna was, did he? I mean, I can cobble togwther 70% of the pieces, but I'm still not clear on the whole picture.
Remember, the magical teleporters take you to the magical version of mars, not the real one that needs terraforming.

The two are slowly collapsing into each other. I think the goal is to make the real mars, which the magical spells is on top of, actually able to support life, and therefore, magic, before total collapse.
The thing is, through Asuna and the Keys, they had the abilty to go backwards and forwards.

Or at least there is enough evidence that im convinved its possible.

Which brings me toward another question. How inhispitable is MSN Mars? Its implied that Chao was born there, and that refuges from the magical world lived there.
 
Chao WAS born on mars. It just happened to be the magical other-dimensional mars. She knew that the magical world was located/tethered on mars. Negi didn't at that time. So when she was hinting at where she came, she made it seem like it was a joke.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Really? Because it was stated that the MW will collapse 10-20 years in the future (or was it 10-12? Whatever)

Chao was born 100 years in the future.(ish)

So unless something happened that accelerated the process of the MW's collapse by about 80-90 years, I'm pretty sure Chao was born on Mars Mars, not MW Mars.

The point is moot however - unless I'm misunderstanding the manga, people lived on Mars Mars - harsh as it was, people lived there, if even for a short time.
 
Ashaman said:
You're right that a space elevator is a good thing which long term cheapens costs for space expansion... But it wasn't needed in the short term goal of terriforming mars what with them having magical teleporters to take them to mars.

So it was a good thing long term but not strictly neccessary.


Also, Ken really didn't make it clear what Asuna was, did he? I mean, I can cobble togwther 70% of the pieces, but I'm still not clear on the whole picture.
Akamatsu didn't exactly make it clear what the Lifemaker was either (beside being the Creator of the world and who felt more like a Plot Device then a Character) or how the LM created the world and the people-the whole illusion thing did feel like a cop out to avoid actually killing anyone, despite being perfectly okay with impaling a ten-year-old boy through the chest and leave him dying in a pool of his own blood-sure he didn't die, but on some level I feel it hurt the story that Akamatsu was willing to go that far, but not the extra step.

It's like for most of the story he uses kiddie gloves on the characters then (upon the start of the MW Arc) every now and then he takes them off and replaces them with boxing gloves and beats the crap out of them. It was off-putting at times, I didn't read Negima to see little kids get impaled or watch someone get molested in the second to last chapter. There were some points where the Genre shift just didn't work for a story that started with the premise of a 10-year-old boy wizard teaching a Class of 31 girls. If it had taken a more parodic like approach to action/adventure manga I feel the series would of held up better.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Chaotic Symbolism said:
It's like for most of the story he uses kiddie gloves on the characters then (upon the start of the MW Arc) every now and then he takes them off and replaces them with boxing gloves and beats the crap out of them. It was off-putting at times, I didn't read Negima to see little kids get impaled or watch someone get molested in the second to last chapter. There were some points where the Genre shift just didn't work for a story that started with the premise of a 10-year-old boy wizard teaching a Class of 31 girls. If it had taken a more parodic like approach to action/adventure manga I feel the series would of held up better.
I disagree - I think the harem/fanservice/comedy points were some of the weaker points of the series. Well, maybe not the comedic bits. Mostly because no matter how mature Negi is, the centre of the harem is a 10 year old boy and I therefore cannot take any of it seriously; at least without my skin crawling a little and me questioning how the hell that is going to work.

I think it was better as a action/adventure series with harem/fanservice/comedy sections than it would be as a harem/fanservice/comedy manga with action/adventure elements.

As for the kiddie gloves thing - I can see your point, but am actually glad it didn't go whole hog with the death thing. I'd prefer psudo-death and near fatal injuries to actual death or even the other extreme - no fear of death at all.

It fit perfectly with the tone of the series.
 
My point is the more darker action/adventure tone didn't fit well with the first half of the series. Understand I loved Volume 3, The Kyoto Trip, and School Festival fights.

Perhaps it's because they were group fights and everyone contributed like an equal team (IIRC teamwork was a major theme in the beginning with Negi learning to accept help from others), but in the MW Arc the power gap was ripped wide open and Negi left the girls' in the dust. I don't expect Yuuna, Makie, or even Yue to be part of the "elite class", but those who had been training since they could walk like Kaede and Ku? They should have put up a better fight against Quintum and Sextum. And lets face it those three Averrunci existed solely to clear out the battlefield so we could go straight too Negi vs. Fate. They were killed off in a minute after appearing. They were less characters and more plot devices.

Maybe Akamatsu was trying to be "realistic" by making the villains so powerful (in which case I think we should of had a few more level up arcs before MW) and that a bunch of barely trained teenage girls (with only a few real fighters among them-who while skilled just weren't at the broken level yet) would just be in over their heads.

However all that seem to do was justify Negi's insistence in doing things on his own. This wasn't really a good way to end the final battle arc, his partners should be standing next to him, not behind him.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
Chaotic Symbolism said:
My point is the more darker action/adventure tone didn't fit well with the first half of the series. Understand I loved Volume 3, The Kyoto Trip, and School Festival fights.
I can see your point there. Still, I don't think the slightly darker tone was bad. It was an evolution that was gradual enough that it wasn't too jarring.

Perhaps it's because they were group fights and everyone contributed like an equal team (IIRC teamwork was a major theme in the beginning with Negi learning to accept help from others), but in the MW Arc the power gap was ripped wide open and Negi left the girls' in the dust. I don't expect Yuuna, Makie, or even Yue to be part of the "elite class", but those who had been training since they could walk like Kaede and Ku?
Ah yeah, that got me too. Negi being stronger/more skilled than the others - fine. Hell, enough significantly strong - still fine. Them being damn near useless - not good.

They should have put up a better fight against Quintum and Sextum. And lets face it those three Averrunci existed solely to clear out the battlefield so we could go straight too Negi vs. Fate. They were killed off in a minute after appearing. They were less characters and more plot devices.
100% agree - A more even fight for starters.

They should have appeared much earlier and had at least some character - as it was they were a barely foreshadowed add on that fell flat.

Maybe Akamatsu was trying to be "realistic" by making the villains so powerful (in which case I think we should of had a few more level up arcs before MW) and that a bunch of barely trained teenage girls (with only a few real fighters among them-who while skilled just weren't at the broken level yet) would just be in over their heads.

However all that seem to do was justify Negi's insistence in doing things on his own. This wasn't really a good way to end the final battle arc, his partners should be standing next to him, not behind him.
That was a major failing - They should have just made it a team thing - Negi vs Fate 1 vs 1. Kotaro + 2 others (1 combat 1 support) vs Sextum. Split the team for the other two, combat and support.

As it was, the Support role became more important than the Combat ones. For what was at the time a full on action/adventure series, that's just bullshit.
 
Ashaman said:
I can see your point there. Still, I don't think the slightly darker tone was bad. It was an evolution that was gradual enough that it wasn't too jarring.
You're probably right, but the way the series ended just left such a bad taste in mouth I can't help but look back and wonder where things went downhill. If I were to pick it'd have to be at the Governor's ball the pace picked up significantly after that and the story's flow started to suffer.

Also I never quite got why CE attacked the ball in the first place, I mean they had Asuna, they had the Keys, they had the element of surprise (since no one knew they had Asuna). If they kept their heads down a little longer they could of gotten their "end the world" plan off without a hitch.

100% agree - A more even fight for starters.

They should have appeared much earlier and had at least some character - as it was they were a barely foreshadowed add on that fell flat.
Not to mention the Averrunci's roles could have just been given to the Fate Girls-they at least want and believe in what they're doing and thus had a lot more potential as characters and be a serious threat, but were wasted. Dynamis and The Averruncus Series? Except for Fate because he has free will and that incident with Luna and her sister the rest are doing this because they are "programmed" too. Not because they actually care for the "dolls". They just had no real depth to them.

The Master of the Graves: Who? Why? What? Where? That's all I can say.
 

Knyght

The Collector
Chaotic Symbolism said:
You're probably right, but the way the series ended just left such a bad taste in mouth I can't help but look back and wonder where things went downhill. If I were to pick it'd have to be at the Governor's ball the pace picked up significantly after that and the story's flow started to suffer.

Also I never quite got why CE attacked the ball in the first place, I mean they had Asuna, they had the Keys, they had the element of surprise (since no one knew they had Asuna). If they kept their heads down a little longer they could of gotten their "end the world" plan off without a hitch.
Agreed. That was the point where things got totally hectic. I remember being surprised how things seemed to be moving into the endgame already.
 

Ashaman

Well-Known Member
I think we are 3 for 3 on the ball as where it began to get too hectic. But I still think it wasn't until the shithole of the Sports Festival that the series was really bad.

And Chaotic - don't forget Ponyo, Zazies random sistet from nowhere.
 
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