NOW what do we do with her?
- Thread starter Nugar
- Start date
zeebee1 said:
All your arguments are invalid due to the fact that crazy people do illogical things due to reasons that don't make sense.
It actually depends on the psychosis. In Azula's case I would say she is borderline Sociopath. Of course that could because her father found and encouraged her traits, in which case she would be even more messed up. I actually like Vathara's interpretation for the family dynamics, even if you don't subscribe to Azula being a sociopath, her father easily falls into the definition.
From Wiki, if someone has three or more of the following.
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
I would say that 2, 5, and 7 fit. Keep in mind that not all of them have to fit properly, psychology is inexact at best.
However, there is a silver lining. Azula is young enough that it might be possible to adjust her behavior. It would take time, effort, understanding, and patience. In other-words, good luck.
And to further confuse the diagnosis, Azula had hallucinations. This is indicator of Schizophrenia, which is a whole other ball game, and can have very similar symptoms. This disorder is a bit more erratic though, and Azula doesn't strike me as being afflicted.
I never read anything in her character that suggested a dislike of her father. Even if we ignore her slow loss of sanity from (among other things) being left behind she still showed at least some loyalty to him. She named a city after him, didn't kill him when when their powers were gone (and could have blamed it on Zuko), and never shows any interest in harming him.
Lost Star said:
From Wiki, if someone has three or more of the following.
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
It certainly points to a genetic issue *looks at Ozai*
TVtropes had a link to a forum that makes that argument too. It argued that the amount of time between the birth of Iroh and Ozai might be an indication that Ozai was an accidental pregnancy, and that he was pretty much unwanted his entire life. It also argued that Ozai purposely tried to make Zuko weak and Azula his heir as a reversal of his situation with Azulon. I'm not sure I buy that last bit, but I can buy Ozai treating his own children poorly as a result of a lifetime of emotional abuse from Azulon.
Trying to find the link.
Trying to find the link.
Lost Star said:
zeebee1 said:
All your arguments are invalid due to the fact that crazy people do illogical things due to reasons that don't make sense.
It actually depends on the psychosis. In Azula's case I would say she is borderline Sociopath. Of course that could because her father found and encouraged her traits, in which case she would be even more messed up. I actually like Vathara's interpretation for the family dynamics, even if you don't subscribe to Azula being a sociopath, her father easily falls into the definition.
From Wiki, if someone has three or more of the following.
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
I would say that 2, 5, and 7 fit. Keep in mind that not all of them have to fit properly, psychology is inexact at best.
However, there is a silver lining. Azula is young enough that it might be possible to adjust her behavior. It would take time, effort, understanding, and patience. In other-words, good luck.
And to further confuse the diagnosis, Azula had hallucinations. This is indicator of Schizophrenia, which is a whole other ball game, and can have very similar symptoms. This disorder is a bit more erratic though, and Azula doesn't strike me as being afflicted.
And likely, after the betrayal of her closest friends, it got kicked into overdrive.
Her hallucination is most likely due to an extreme amount of stress because of this, which lead to a mentally exhausted state which has been shown to created hallucinations.
Lost Star said:
zeebee1 said:
All your arguments are invalid due to the fact that crazy people do illogical things due to reasons that don't make sense.
It actually depends on the psychosis. In Azula's case I would say she is borderline Sociopath. Of course that could because her father found and encouraged her traits, in which case she would be even more messed up. I actually like Vathara's interpretation for the family dynamics, even if you don't subscribe to Azula being a sociopath, her father easily falls into the definition.
From Wiki, if someone has three or more of the following.
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
I would say that 2, 5, and 7 fit. Keep in mind that not all of them have to fit properly, psychology is inexact at best.
However, there is a silver lining. Azula is young enough that it might be possible to adjust her behavior. It would take time, effort, understanding, and patience. In other-words, good luck.
And to further confuse the diagnosis, Azula had hallucinations. This is indicator of Schizophrenia, which is a whole other ball game, and can have very similar symptoms. This disorder is a bit more erratic though, and Azula doesn't strike me as being afflicted.
Should I be worried I have 4 of those?
3, 5, 6 and 7.
And it's only been a week.
Psychology is inexact at best. Almost everyone that learns about these things gets a bit worried that they have a disorder. Unless you notice a significant impairment in function you probably don't have it. The fact that you are worried actually makes it unlikely that you have it actually.
*Shrugs* This in the internet though. You really shouldn't get a diagnostic from anything online. Especially psychology.
*Shrugs* This in the internet though. You really shouldn't get a diagnostic from anything online. Especially psychology.
All psychological disorders, by definition, have to cause a social or psychological impairment. If you aren't impaired, you don't have a disorder. Personality disorders are a hoot to learn about, because most normal people will go "Hey, that sounds like me" for most of them. That's normal too because everyone has personalities that are varied and interesting.
Lost Star said:
Psychology is inexact at best. Almost everyone that learns about these things gets a bit worried that they have a disorder. Unless you notice a significant impairment in function you probably don't have it. The fact that you are worried actually makes it unlikely that you have it actually.
*Shrugs* This in the internet though. You really shouldn't get a diagnostic from anything online. Especially psychology.
*Shrugs* This in the internet though. You really shouldn't get a diagnostic from anything online. Especially psychology.
With Azula's case, we have much more evidence that she's suffering from some kind of mental disorder. Hallucinations, paranoia etc. That doesn't mean that she falls under the list. Many of those mentioned have to considered culturally. 1 and 2 can be justified by the fact that she's at war, and in her opinion is better than wasting soldiers on pointless attacks. 3 and 4 we don't see much of, 5 can be argued as an officer going into battle. 6 she does show responsibility to her father, even if only her father. 7 can be the same thing. A 1930s Japanese officer who burned a village because Nationalists recruited there could consider themselves justified, as could a U.S officer in Afghanistan who orders a convoy of militants bombed along with nearby villagers selling them food.
So is she crazy at the end? By all evidence yes. That doesn't mean it's easy to define her.