Harry Potter Ordinary

[zerohour]

Moved form Misc Ideas, because I really want to explore this thought.

What if Hermione was, at best, average in magical talent?

She's still as smart as she ever was, but for some reason or another, her practical skills in magic are average at best.  She still writes long essays on the various charms and transfigurations, but has much more difficulty actually executing the spells.  Sometimes even Neville can pull it off before her, though that's rare.

What effect would that have on Hermione?  Would she redouble her efforts, ignoring everything around her to prove that she's just as good with magic as she is with regular schoolwork?  Would she have some sort of breakdown when she loses her place as the best and brightest?  Would she start to think Malfoy was right, and that she was weaker because of her muggle parents?

Just thought it might make for an interesting story.


Link to discussion


Still think it would be an interesting idea to explore Hermione's character if she wasn't amazing at schoolwork and magic.  She's not incompetent at it, she does well on written tests and theory, but when it comes to practical applications, she's not that great.

Currently, until someone suggests a better metaphor, let's say that each spell is like lifting a weight.  If you're not strong enough to lift it, you can't cast the spell.  With enough training, you can become stronger, and become able to cast the spell once you attain enough "magical strength."


Hermione is not only the tiny freshman who can barely lift a textbook, but in the extended metaphor, suffers from a testosterone deficiency that makes her training to become stronger less efficient than the average person's.  She knows all of the physics behind the body mechanics, and how best to apply her strength, but knowledge only gets you so far without the physical strength to back it up when it comes to lifting.  Even if she finds a perfect technique that alllows her to lift twice as much, anyone can learn that technique, and can now lift twice as much as they could before.  Now Hermione can match their 100 pound lift, but that doesn't matter because now they can lift 200 pounds.

Might have taken the metaphor a bit too far, but I think  explained my perspective well enough.  If not, I'll try to clear it up some more.




This is meant to be an exploratory piece on Hermione learning to deal with being average, no longer the best at schoolwork, simply because she doesn't have the magical talent others have.

New thought:
-Since her boggart in Third year was being told she failed all of her courses, would that change after essentially living that nightmare for three years?  Would not being perfect at schoolwork make her have a different fear because she's adapted,, or would it only intensify it?





Snippet:



Hermione frowned at her wand, then turned her attention back to the book in front of her.  She had done everything right, she was sure of it.  She had practiced each of the various wand motions a dozen times before even attempting the first spell, one the book assured her that everyone was capable of casting.  With another precise wave, with an equally precise recitation, Hermione tried again, but once again, the spell fizzled, tempering her confusion with frustration.

Another dozen attempts later, she tried other spells, wondering if perhaps the first was a practical joke, meant to tease Muggleborns as a way of welcoming them into the wizarding world, but each and every one of them didn't work.  The best that she managed was a few sparks like when she had first gotten her wands.  Hermione scowled.  She was doing everything right, so why wasn't it working?

She thought back to that first day, when she first went into the magical world.  The guide that escorted her and the rest of the muggleborn, along with their parents, escorted them to Diagon Alley, explaining the necessity of keeping magic a secret, and how the Ministry of Magic had strict regulations concerning the practice of underage magic.

Of course! Hermione's eyes flashed in understanding.  There must be something preventing her from using magic outside of school, probably something that kept her wand from working until she could receive proper instruction.  After all, children were notorious for getting into trouble (well, most of them were.  She was always sure to listen and obey any and all safety regulations and instructions) so the trouble they could get into once they got magic would be unimaginable.  There was sure to be something keeping her from using her newly discovered magic, she just needed someone to remove it first!

Hermione wanted to write a letter, explaining that she was more than responsible enough to practice a few spells before school started, but restrained herself.  School would be starting in a few short months, and it would be rude to ask for special treatment before the school year even began.  She was sure the offices were filled with letters begging to use magic before school started.  The first step to proving she was capable of using it was not to act like the rest of the children.  Hermione regretfully put her wand away in the special case her father had bought for her.  It was only a few months until school started, then she could put her wand to good use.  In the mean time, she still had plenty of reading material, and the better she knew the theory, the better she would be in practice.  With that thought in her mind, she returned to her reading, putting thoughts of spellcasting out of her head for the moment.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Moved form Misc Ideas, because I really want to explore this thought.

What if Hermione was, at best, average in magical talent?

She's still as smart as she ever was, but for some reason or another, her practical skills in magic are average at best.  She still writes long essays on the various charms and transfigurations, but has much more difficulty actually executing the spells.  Sometimes even Neville can pull it off before her, though that's rare.

Okay, seriously, just need to point this out:

She already is.

There is absolutely nothing stating in the story that she's better than average with magic.  She's nothing special, outside of the theoretical parts she excels nowhere (and actually struggles a bit with more advanced practical usage of magic), she does everything by the letter, and when handed the cheat codes, actually got mad anyone would resort to the cheat codes.  What made Hermione different from other classmates is that she studied to the point of obsession, making her knowledgeable in many fields and understanding of many concepts, but as far as performing magic she's no better than the rest of her class.

Hermione who is still as smart as she is in canon, but has average practical skills in magic is...

Well, that's just canon!Hermione.

From what you want to accomplish, you want Hermione who is either A) not a bookworm, or B) dumb as rocks.

 

[zerohour]

...You're joking, right?

You're saying Hermione's skills come just from working hard?  That she doesn't excel at magic?


She routinely scores more than 100% on tests, which include practicals.  Fairly sure she managed Os on everything after Fifth Year, and probably did the same for NEWTs.  Terry Boot was shocked/amazed that Hermione knew the Protean charm in fifth year, saying it was NEWT level work.  That means she's exceptional by Ravenclaw standards.  Since no one from Hufflepuff disagreed with that assessment, we can infer that it is also exceptional by Hufflepuff standards.

The idea that she is able to outdo the smart house and the hardworking house without having some exceptional talent is ridiculous.  That or she really should have been put in one of those houses instead of Gryffindor.



On an unrelated note, I kind of want a story where Hermione is the heir to Hogwarts now.

 

[Rising Dragon]

But does she have the talent? Everything in the books points to her prowess being because she studies to the point of obsession. Of course she got top marks in her classes, she spent a great deal of time studying and she paid attention in class, doing everything by the letter and making sure everything she did was correct. That's the opposite of being talented, it shows that what she's capable of didn't come easy. When we see her working on advanced magic, though, we see her struggling. In a field where Harry was naturally talented. We've SEEN what talent looks like in HP, and Hermione is not it. She is skilled, make no mistake, but it wasn't because she was gifted at it. She just busted her ass in the books while Harry coasted on luck and the power of plot and Ron performed under-average while gimped by a hand-me-down wand and his own laziness.

The concept you want to explore is being aimed in the wrong direction. Your concept is "Hermione is very smart but has to work her ass off to get results". Which is exactly what she did in canon. If she were TALENTED at all this magic, she wouldn't have had to study nearly as much and would still get high marks in class, because it comes easy to her. Or she'd end up like Snape and show up her superiors through innovation of the work, doing things easier or making them more powerful, etc.

 

[zerohour]

Yes, talent is clearly a thing.  Since she can do magic, she clearly has the talent for it.  I find it hard to believe that Neville didn't try his absolute best in everything to live up to his parents' legacy, yet he was still fairly average for most of the series, if not lackluster.  Likewise, Filch wouldn't be so devastated about being a Squib if all he needed to get over it was enough hard work.

Yes, we've seen her struggle with some magic, but she has also offhandedly mentioned that she knew spells beyond the expected curriculum.  For the most part, we never see her have difficulty with regular coursework from what I can recall (Divination excluded.)

She works her ass off, I won't deny that, but a large part of that is her desire to be thorough and perfect, rather than being the best.  She regularly writes way more than her teachers ask for, and has done multiple revisions on lots of homework.  That doesn't indicate a struggle to keep up with the curriculum to me.  She wants to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that she is the best and brightest.


Hard work is not an unusual trait in Hogwarts.  There is a House literally dedicated to the concept of hard work, there is another House dedicated to learning and knowledge.  Hermione manages to outperform both of those houses, which represent about 50% of the population of wizards.


Also going to bring up the Time Turner.  She was given a device that could kill her if not used properly, and in the worst case scenario, could cause the universe to collapse due to paradox.  Seriously, the power to end all of existence, and you're suggesting that they gave it to an average person who just worked hard?


Hermione is talented.  Yes, she works hard, but a lot of it is because her inner perfectionist won't accept anything less, rather than difficulty with the workload.   Hard work can only carry you so far.  Talent can only get you so far.  You need both of them to be exceptional.


Edit: What kind of school system has THREE Failing Grades? Seriously. I get that one of them is probably a D equivalent. Not an actual fail, but not enough to move on to the next course, but actually having two different degrees of true failure? Even spazzing out in the middle of an exam for a class he barely paid attention to got Harry a D. Is the Troll grade their way of saying a student is mentally handicapped? Do they send you to a special school for magically challenged wizards? What gives?!

 

[Rising Dragon]

Neville comes across like Hermione does, working his ass off to finally achieve results. Sometimes, hard work only pays off so far, and I daresay a lot of his problems with magic stemmed from his own emotional trauma, because after the Lestranges escaped, he started to improve in magic because he could no longer afford not to. On the other hand, comparing Hermione to Filch is really unfair, because Filch is also suffering from a medical, and most likely genetic condition preventing him from using magic, at which point all the effort in the world won't help him.

Now, in what world does "being perfect" not mean "being the best"? That makes no sense whatsoever. If she's striving for perfection, then yes, she's trying to be the best. No, Hermione doesn't struggle with the curriculum, but that doesn't mean she isn't working her ass off to be the best witch possible. Like you said, she writes way more than necessary for her teachers and does plenty of revisions to her homework. Her knowing more advanced spells is hardly an indication of talent, it just shows she studied beyond her class's level. That's more evidence of working hard, not natural talent. That's the whole point of her characterization early on, that she is a very intelligent girl who studies a massive degree. I read a lot as a kid, often reading books that were not part of my class, does that make me naturally talented? Not a chance in hell.

What ABOUT the Time-Turner? What's it got to do with anything? She showed responsibility enough to not misuse it; that's not an indication of talent. Sure, if someone is only average but shows the maturity and responsibility that proves they won't misuse the Time-Turner, why not?

And what's that about safety? Remember that Hermione was burning herself out through the use of it, coming off as really exhausted and she started missing classes because it was all starting to run together in her mind. That's more proof that her capabilities originate from the sheer amount of effort she was putting in, not from any natural gift for magic. In fact, ignoring that really she was only given it so it can be used as a plot device at the end of the book to save Sirius, the whole thing was showcasing it as a negative aspect of Hermione's character, that she was going overboard on the studying and effort and leaving herself no time for herself, driving herself to exhaustion.

Perfectionism is not a sign of talent. It'd work well with talent, but that's not how Hermione was portrayed.

As for the failing grades thing, pretty sure that was meant for humor, and thus not a lot of thought was put into it because of course the good guys aren't going to be failing school.

 

[Shirotsume]

You guys keep forgetting, it wasn't a lack of talent holding Neville back, it was a goddamn mismatched wand. jesus christ how many times do we have to go through this exact same song and dance?

 

[Yorae Rasante]

Not really... It was a factor, but the wand was only changed after the end of OoP after the first one breaks in the DoM, while his improvement is mainly during the book long before then...

 

[Shirotsume]

Good grief, have you even read the books?

 

[daniel_gudman]

Just by looking at the thread title,
I instantly wanted a story where they accidentally grab the wrong Harry Potter (different kid, same name), and now some rando 11-year-old muggle kid is just bluffing his whole way through, mistaken for hero -style, and doesn't want anyone to know they got the wrong one because he's afraid he'll get Memory Charmed or punished.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

Good grief, have you even read the books?

Years ago, I have to admit (my mother hid the books from me because I read them too much and I never found them again... and mostly the ones until goblet of fire, didn't like 5-forwards much), but I do recall Nevile became one of the students progressing the best in the DA after the escape from Azkaban, and that his wand was broken in the battle at the department of mysteries.

 

[Shirotsume]

Neville's issues were twofold- he had a shitty wand and no confidence, believing he was near-squib.

He had plenty of talent, but he wasn't using it. He started improving in the DA, where the threat of bellatrix made his lack of confidence irrelevant because he HAD to get the spells right, in his mind. As a result, when he failed because of a mismatched wand, he refused to accept that, and kept going, until he was succeeding in SPITE of a shitty focus and a lack of confidence. IF that doesn't show talent, I don't even know what to tell you.

This also had the added benefit of increasing his confidence, because he was finally getting results.

And then at the end of the year, his wand breaks and he gets a properly matched one.

Rock Lee drops the weights. And we get total!bamf!neville of the final book.

 

[zerohour]

All we know about Squibs is that it's a thing.  We really can't say much more about it than that. If it's a genetic thing, then magical prowess is directed tied to you natural abilities, or "talent" as some people might call it.


How does mastering magic two years before you're even supposed to start learning it not qualify as talented?  If it's NEWT level work, that's saying that she shouldn't be capable of learning it for another two years or so.  The average person won't be able to do that, or they would teach it in fifth year.  Every time they need a special kind of magic, Hermione is the one they turn two.  They have her cast the spells, instead of explaining them so harry can cast them because she's not talented enough to do it herself.


Being the Best and Being Perfect are two different things.   Being the Best is comparative.  You want to be better than everyone else, and whatever score you get on the test is largely irrelevant as long as it's better than everyone else's score.   Being perfect means aiming to get 100 percent regardless of how everyone else does.   To use a sports metaphor, the best baseball player can hit the ball about 40% of the time he goes up to bat.  a Perfect baseball player would hit the ball every single time.


Hermione works hard because she chooses to work hard, not because she needs to work hard.  If she actually needed to work hard, Ron wouldn't be thinking she's crazy for going through so many revisions, or for going way over the minimum requirements for assignments.  He'd feel bad because she's having difficulty with the work.  She does those things because her standards are insanely high, way higher than anyone else's. 


I bring up the Timer Turner because it a demonstration of getting special treatment.  You don't give special treatment to the average person, you give it to the exceptional person.  The fact that it's super dangerous to use only hammers the fact that she's special in harder.  The Time Turner means that McGonagall thought Hermione was capable of handling a course load above and beyond what you would expect from the average student.  If they thought the average person could handle taking all of those classes, they'd hand out timeturners at the start of third year, and not bother with having them select classes.

Or just rearrange the schedule so you could take all of them without risking a Time Paradox.  You know, if they were sane.

As for Hermione wearing herself out, maybe it's because she was aiming to keep up her insane work pace that caused her to have a breakdown, rather than difficulty with the work.  Maybe because she didn't give herself enough time to sleep, maybe because humans are wired for 24 hour days, and changing that will probably mess you up a bit.  Maybe it's the stress of potentially causing a paradox and ending the world. In the end, she passed all of her classes, and since she didn't complain about her grades, we can assume that her scores met her high standards, probably Os across the board.



Regarding the wands, Ron had a mismatched wand first year as well, and we never hear about him having unusual difficulties.  Hell, he had a broken wand in second year, and he did just fine.  I'm willing to accept that it could be a factor, but I hardly think it's the decisive force people seem to think it is.  Neville does struggle because of it, but he does well enough that he passes his classes, so it couldn't be that big of a deal.  Also, not every class involved using wands so you can't blame his mediocrity in those classes on his wand.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Oh, good, we're bringing the grades into this. Lemme tell you this, then: since the NEWTs are the endgame of Hogwarts academics, most students take them. Most students pass them, too. So... actually yeah, the average wizard/witch would complete NEWT level stuff. If they study for them, practice them, then by all means they can learn them ahead of time. They're the equivalent of senior year finals, not a PhD or a university thesis or something. If I study for things beyond my level and practice them, then do well on it, that's certainly not a sign of talent in me.

I know the difference between wanting and needing to work hard. That doesn't indicate that she's extremely talented in magic. At most you can call her talented at logic or critical thinking. There's been nothing in the source material to claim or even hint that she's talented at certain or all fields of magic. Everything it HAS indicated is that she's hard-working and studies a lot. From a storytelling perspective, you don't depict someone as naturally talented at everything as someone who studies and practices to an obsessive degree, because it's hard to depict someone like that. From a storytelling perspective, you depict talented people as those who don't HAVE to study or practice to that degree, because it comes naturally to them, to the amazement of others.

This franchise has already shown people like that. Dumbledore. Snape. Voldemort. Harry. The Weasley twins.

Hermione has NEVER been featured in any capacity as having an easy time of things, where she can coast on that talent and not stress herself out over it. And your Time Turner example is no better than your comparisons to Neville and Filch, because the usage of that isn't governed by talent, but by responsibility and maturity. Which Hermione has in spades for the most part. Most students you wouldn't dare hand a Time Turner out because they'd wreak havoc with one. They thought Hermione could handle the usage of one, but as I must point out again: she couldn't. Her insane course load got the better of her in the end. Even if she passed that year, it proved to her she wasn't the exceptionally talented person who can ace all the courses at once with no problems whatsoever.

As for your bringing up Ron, no. After his wand was destroyed he really had to struggle with magic, especially when it backfired on him and made him throw up slugs all night. As for the classes without wands, we only see one of them that he struggled in: Potions. And we know he struggled in it because Snape constantly terrified the boy. That's right back up there with his emotional trauma hampering him.

 

[zerohour]

No, OWLs are the equivalent of senior exams.  They are ORDINARY Wizarding Levels.  You are considered Ordinary if you can pass them, just like having a high school diploma is considered completion of you basic education, you can go get a job now.  You want more than that, but theoretically, you could get by without it.   The NEWTs are the apex of the educational system, ranging somewhere between a college degree and a doctorate, or we would have spent more time hearing Hermione worrying about getting into wizarding college.

Even if that wasn't the case, and NEWTs are the senior exams, she's still the freshman who has enough talent to go right to college.  She's two years ahead, minimum, of where she's supposed to be.  Again, that isn't average or normal.  If it was normal, then EVERYONE would be doing it.  There would be no shock that hse was capable of doing that two years early.

As for Harry being talented, he's got one class he does better than Ron.  One.  Everything else, he was as good as Ron, and Hermione left them both in the dust.  He's talented in DADA, I'm not going to deny that, but other than that, he's average.


Hermione is passionate about magic, or studying in general.  She gets books for Christmas, because it's something that she loves to do.  That is not indicative of struggling with it.  You say that showing someone studying is the opposite of talent, but the corrallary to that is that if they have to study, they are inherently inferior to the talented ones., if only to emphasize how gifted that individual is.  Hermione does better overall than everyone else.  She didn't get a single Average result, despite the fact that you're claiming she IS average, and outperforms three people you list as talented, Harry and the Weasley Twins.


When do we see Hermione struggle?  You keep saying that she's struggling, but we never see it.  Whenever we see her studying, Ron is always asking WHY she's studying.  She's one of his best friends.  If she was struggling with schoolwork, they wouldn't ask why she was still studying.  They would let her do what she needed to keep up with them.  She also wouldn't be the one to correct them on their own homework, or be the first to pull of spells in classes.

The only time I recall her failing in magic was Third Year DADA Exams, when she was told that she failed every course.  Other than that, can you name one incident where she failed, when she's seriously struggled in actuality, not just by choosing to study when Harry and Ron are goofing off, or fretting about exams and schoolwork?


You're forgetting that Hermione had to have something other than responsibility and maturity in order to get the Time Turner.  She also had to have capability.  She needed to be capable of handling the additional course load.  People thought she was capable of handling it, and they were right.  She passed all of her courses with the same degree of skill she demonstrated in previous years.

You're saying that she is an entirely average girl who happens to work harder than anyone else, who has just as much difficulty as your average students, and you want to give her more work than the rest of the average students?  That doesn't make sense.  Hermione is special, or her accomplishments would not be notable.  They would be considered normal.  She wouldn't get special treatment if she wasn't head and shoulders above everyone else.

As for the stress, if you're claiming overwork, remember Hermione had the ability to give herself as much time as she needed.  Need to study more?  Time Turner.  Exhausted?  Time Turner.  Need to complete the fourth revision before class starts in five minutes?  Time Turner.   There was nothing preventing her from using the Time Turner in that fashion.

The stress was just as likely to have been causes by other factors.  There was a notorious criminal hunting one of her best friends, a friend who turned on her after she got his broom taken away.  Another friend was antagonizing her about her choice in pets, and blamed her for the death of his own pet.  There were also the soul sucking monsters around the school which she was exposed to more than anyone else because she had more hours in the day.  Or it could be she was taking a class from a complete fraud, who repeatedly said she didn't have talent, and didn't have the mitigating factor of a schoolgirl crush.


Did Ron struggle? Not so much first year from what I recall.  Second year?  Yes, but not to the point where he failed out of class.  We would have heard something about it if that was the case, at least in passing as he worries about being kicked out of school, and what his mom would think.  I don't think his family would fail to scrounge up the equivalent of fifty bucks to keep their son from failing school.  Likewise, EVERYONE knows that the wands chooses the wizard.  That means either the wand isn't as big of a deal as everyone seems to think it is, or Ron and Neville's families wanted them to struggle and possibly fail.



...you know what?  This argument is getting us nowhere.  You're shooting down everything I say, and I'm doing the same to your points.  This is getting us nowhere, and isn't doing anything to offer idea on how Hermione

If you want to keep going, I'm happy to start up a thread in the talk section to continue debating.  But for the purposes of this idea, whatever degree of talent Hermione possess in canon is now lessened.  She had an amount of talent above zero (or she couldn't do magic) and below whatever theoretical limits there are on magical ability, and I'm halving them.

 

[Rising Dragon]

You seem to have this thing where you equate average to being subpar or bad at something. That's not how average works. But fine, ignore that point if you want.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

^this.

You are not making Hermione smart but with ordinary abilities. As I mentioned before in the other topic, her first canon show that can be considered talented instead of just fast-learning is the Protean charm in book 5, which we can only count if we take "NEWT-level" as needing more than being extremely smart to learn earlier. Her only other shown skills were learning spells fast - which adds to learning things fast, which comes from her smarts and not from magical talent - and being good at potions (which is not exactly a magical but a chemistry-like talent) so there would be no changes before then.

Hermione is great in the smarts area, if you are talking about the theoretical or following minutiae to do her work as perfect as possible it is her field, but until book 5 we had no proof she had anything else. She learns fast and as perfectly as possible, but her work is just that, learnt earlier and perfectly, NOT better.

You are thus not making her "ordinary but still as smart", but "bad with smarts to try to catch up". If you want to make Hermione a less tsundere Louise, then say it outright.

It doesn't matter what level OWLs and NEWTs are, since they are things everyone does at that age. If she was so great she would be doing them earlier.
You said it yourself. If it wasn't so impressive to do them earlier, everyone would be doing it... yet, well, all Hermione did was learn and cast one spell of that level, it is not like she got the level earlier.

Harry being good at DADA without trying IS talent. He is above average there. All we see of Hermione is her trying to be the best. She is smart and perfectionist, and talented at THAT, not at magic as you are trying to imply. If she does not struggle to study, it does not mean she is talented at magic, it means she is talented at learning.
In other words, making her ordinary but just as smart would change nothing.

Ron dislikes studying. For him getting an average score is good enough. Hermione is a perfectionist. For her being the best is not enough. Not to herself.
As her failure at the DADA at third year proves, since it showed her fear is failing.

And THAT is why her accomplishments are notable to the teachers. Because she studies as hard as she can.

It does not matter if she can use the time-turner to avoid overworking, you clearly did not pay attention to her if you didn't think she'd use it to work MORE instead of relaxing.
Other factors contributing? Yes. Still does not remove that factor.

The reason the argument is getting nowhere is because... I don't see you ever admitting you may be wrong and that, besides her smarts, Hermione has ordinary magic, and thus your idea would either remove her smarts and thus make her someone else or make her weak at magic and not ordinary as you claim.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Like I said in the misc ideas thread. If you want to make a truly average Hermione, you need to focus on her habits and obsession with studying and learning, rather than try to nerf whatever magical capability she has. A Hermione who isn't so bent out of shape about others not studying or learning how to relax instead of spending her every free moment (that isn't spent trying to keep her, Ron, and Harry alive) studying could be an interesting fic.

A Hermione who has trouble doing magic is just an early Bad End for Harry and company.

 

[zerohour]

And Moved.

IF we're going to continue arguing about Hermione being talented or hardworking, let's move it to the topic I created specially for it, instead of hijacking this thread.  I'm happy to keep debating, but I want to focus on this idea, which is NOT Canon with Idiot!Hermione.


Again, I will reiterate:  I am not making Hermione a dunce.  She is still getting High C to mid B grades.  She's doing well, but not up to her perfectionist standards.  The question I want answered for the sake of this idea is: How does she deal with that?


Edit:

@RisingDragon: Yeah, that would probably be an interesting idea, and for some reason it makes me think of Stoner!Hermione, but it's not what I want to examine. I want to see how Hermione handles not being perfect. She's always striving for that, and I want to know how she would adapt to not being able to accomplish it using her standard means of studying harder.

 

[daniel_gudman]

What does it concretely mean to be "good" or "bad" at spell casting though?

I mean, when they practice spells, it's about doing exactly the right wand motion with exactly the right pronunciation and good aim.

Some spells have an intent component, like the Inforgiveables and the Patronus, but those seem to be unusual for that.

Maybe there's some kinda Magiv Feather component, where you gotta believe you can do it before you can pull it off, but fundamentally HP magic seems to be DEX-based, not INT-based, is what I mean.

What makes Hermione a "good wizard", for example, is that she knows about a lot of spells, so she can always cast exactly the right thing for the situation. If you compare her ability with a specific spell she's basically average, the thing is she'a usually ok at exactly the right spell, while everybody else is good at a generic kinda-fits spell.

Meanwhile, Neville got nervous a lot, and when he was nervous he got tongue-tied and clumsy, which wouldda whacked his spellcasting and started a feedback loop - his spellcasting sucks when he's nervous, and he's always nervous when casting spells cuz he sucks at it.

If I was gonna write an HP SI, I would definately make my terrible aim a running gag and a real weakness, for example, even if (and this might be arrogant) I am a pretty smart dood who learns quickly.

 

[zerohour]

I'd actually argue that its WIS based more than anything else, based on will and conviction.  I think the motions, words, and even wands are just crutches that make things a hell of a lot easier, which is important when you're learning the basics, but past a certain point, you can do it without incantations, without complicated wands movements, and even wandlessly.


But for the purposes of this story, I'm using the fanon "magical core" that dictates how powerful you are.  Hermione's is weaker than usual, making her the skinny freshman that's trying out for varsity football.  Not having it really make an appearance, but it's common enough that the mechanics should be fairly well known to most fanfiction readers.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

let us ignore the fact you want to argue canon when applying fanon to your reasoning.

wasn't your point she was ordinary, how would her be ordinary if her core was weaker than normal instad of, as the name says, normal-sized?

 

[zerohour]

As I said earlier, the END RESULT is that she is ordinary.  Since I don't want to change her characterization at the start of it, that means I need to change something else.

As for the magical core, I used it as a stand in to explain why she's weaker than she was in canon   Apparently saying she's less talented creates issues.  The mechanics behind it aren't really that relevant to what I'm trying to accomplish.  I'm simply trying to find a way to describe an innate weakness in her ability to use magic.  If you have a better way to describe it, I'd be happy to use that instead.  Would saying her MAG skill has a permanent debuff work better?


This is meant to be a character piece for Hermione dealing with adversity.  I want to think about how she would deal with her usual approach to things no longer working, and how she would adapt her methods, and how she would grow as a person as a result.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

Then don't call it her "being ordinary". If you don't want to change her brains, but want to make her weak, then say outright you want her to be weak but still smart.

THAT is my problem with your idea.

Oh yes, as she is presented in the book Hermione got average power but overwhelming brains, a bit boring if not for her personality making her suffer a bit for it sometimes. To turn her ordinary would be to remove the brains part.

You want to keep her overwhelming brains and compensate by lowering her power. That is not being ordinary.
That is balancing.

A more balanced Hermione, with her being a genius still but her magic starting low-powered, maybe even staying so, would maybe be an interesting story, I admit. But you don't call it being ordinary, because it is weak but smart. Neither word makes something ordinary, since their use is to describe them in comparison to the ordinary.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Which is exactly what I said when this came up before in the Misc Ideas thread... you want her truly average, you focus on her behavior and intelligence.