Nasuverse Overpowered Crack Holy Grail War
- Thread starter Prince Charon
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Bazette got a magic ritual that enabled a perpetual space conceptualizing Ireland around Lancer at all time.
This means he gets the fame boost, a chariot, his castle, and other uber stuff.
But I guess that's not OP-ed enough. Ok, fine.
Lancer also gained the ability to summon Scathach, or rather communicate a message that leads to Scathach summoning herself.
GG
(Hey, this is also a double summon! D: )
Oh, I guess we can't forget Kotomine and Gil.
Ok, Gil stays in his kid form. That's it.
This means he gets the fame boost, a chariot, his castle, and other uber stuff.
But I guess that's not OP-ed enough. Ok, fine.
Lancer also gained the ability to summon Scathach, or rather communicate a message that leads to Scathach summoning herself.
GG
(Hey, this is also a double summon! D: )
Oh, I guess we can't forget Kotomine and Gil.
Ok, Gil stays in his kid form. That's it.
Even at his lamest, he's still more awesome then Touma. This can easy be deterimed by Awesome-Touma Annihilation Principle. Just like how a Positron and an Electron will annihilate if allowed to interact, so to with something truely awesome annihilate (and be annihilated by) contact with Touma. Do to the advent of Character Shields and Contractual Immortality, the universe avoids paradox by supressing all instance of Awesome that attempt to interact with Touma.
I always envisioned the ultimate manifestation of "King of Carelessness" being something like, he accidentally locked the Key of Babylon in Babylon, so he's locked out for the night, so he asks (demands) Shirou put him up for the night until the locksmith shows up to open the door for him, and then he gets in a huge screaming match with Tiger about what to watch on TV that night and wins, only not really because he doesn't know how to work the remote.
It's not so much about being not awesome, as being so utterly convinced of your own awesomeness that you don't sweat the details, so much so you end up accidentally screwing yourself over, but you think you're so awesome that you continue to maintain it doesn't matter anyway.
Ultimately, you might think Gil is like 80% responsible for his own problems, but you can't help agreeing with his own self-assessment of awesomeness. He's like Kamina; even when he's fucking himself over, you think, "ha ha, that's great."
It's not so much about being not awesome, as being so utterly convinced of your own awesomeness that you don't sweat the details, so much so you end up accidentally screwing yourself over, but you think you're so awesome that you continue to maintain it doesn't matter anyway.
Ultimately, you might think Gil is like 80% responsible for his own problems, but you can't help agreeing with his own self-assessment of awesomeness. He's like Kamina; even when he's fucking himself over, you think, "ha ha, that's great."
From the random ideas topic:
So, this is how EMIYA-Shirou brings Saber Arturia into the war. The above is one of the reasons he was able to become a true Heroic Spirit. The sword of homunculus creation (what's a good name for that?) was a gift from his Illya, so he could help her transfer to a new, longer-lived body. Thanks to the suggestions of He-who-voted-for-Kodos and Archanon , he has more than enough power for it.
OK, the list so far:
Sakura gets Rider Illya and Archer Herakles.
Zelretch gets Caster Merlin, who summons Caster Medea.
Shirou becomes his True Ultimate Self, and brings forth Saber Arturia with his HAX power (might also have Saber Lily Arturia or Dark Saber Arturia (or one of the other Sabers), or even switch around which Saber is manifested, depending on the situation).
Bazett (oddly, there's only one 'e' in her first name) gets Lancer Cu Chulain, within a perpetual space conceptualizing Ireland, and who has the ability to call Scathach to summon herself (probably yet another Caster, if she's summoned as a Servant at all, rather than a true Heroic Spirit) .
So, there are three other Master/Servant groups (or four, since Shirou and Saber aren't a normal pair), including Rin, to overpower.
Any suggestions?
So, this is how EMIYA-Shirou brings Saber Arturia into the war. The above is one of the reasons he was able to become a true Heroic Spirit. The sword of homunculus creation (what's a good name for that?) was a gift from his Illya, so he could help her transfer to a new, longer-lived body. Thanks to the suggestions of He-who-voted-for-Kodos and Archanon , he has more than enough power for it.
OK, the list so far:
Sakura gets Rider Illya and Archer Herakles.
Zelretch gets Caster Merlin, who summons Caster Medea.
Shirou becomes his True Ultimate Self, and brings forth Saber Arturia with his HAX power (might also have Saber Lily Arturia or Dark Saber Arturia (or one of the other Sabers), or even switch around which Saber is manifested, depending on the situation).
Bazett (oddly, there's only one 'e' in her first name) gets Lancer Cu Chulain, within a perpetual space conceptualizing Ireland, and who has the ability to call Scathach to summon herself (probably yet another Caster, if she's summoned as a Servant at all, rather than a true Heroic Spirit) .
So, there are three other Master/Servant groups (or four, since Shirou and Saber aren't a normal pair), including Rin, to overpower.
Any suggestions?
Sakura seems a bit underwhelming...even with Archer Herakles.
I suggest we buff her up some more now.
Ilya's fully integrated with the memories of all the homunculus within the Einzbern Grail line, including the original of Justicia, the Winter Saint.
And she's perfected the Third. She is, essentially, the completed Grail.
Logically it follows that Herakles is now alive as well. o0
Why are any of them fighting again?
I suggest we buff her up some more now.
Ilya's fully integrated with the memories of all the homunculus within the Einzbern Grail line, including the original of Justicia, the Winter Saint.
And she's perfected the Third. She is, essentially, the completed Grail.
Logically it follows that Herakles is now alive as well. o0
Why are any of them fighting again?
Well let's break down the actual real Grail War participants and see why they're fighting....
Assassin (Fake): Basically, a bouncer. Hung out a lot? Liked to fight, I guess?
Assassin's (Fake) Master: Caster.
Assassin (Real): Consummate professional who does job.
Assassin's (Real) Master: He's just doing it because that's what he wrote in his dayplanner for this century and he doesn't want to admit he has <a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/9/5/' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Alzheimer's.</a>
Archer: Wants to paradox himself out of existence.
Archer's Master: Actually wants to win, sorta; it's what's expected of her.
Berserker: Protection complex? His motives aren't actually explored, on account of having no dialogue that can't be rendered (Roaring Sounds), and no internal monologue.
Berserker's Master: For the lultz. Also a brocon with daddy issues.
Caster: Wants to play house (is terrible at it).
Caster's Master #1: Died really early, actively sabotaged own chances of winning.
Caster's Master #2: Convinced to play house (had no real objections).
Lancer: Wants to fight? Acts like it's a block party for the Throne of Heros.
Lancer's Master #1: Wants to hang out with Lancer.
Lancer's Master #2: His origin is "trolling", and he's true to his origin.
Saber: Actually wants to win Grail.
Saber' Master: In WAY over his head. Mostly wants to prevent casualties.
Rider: Siscon, with regrets. Might want to fix life with grail.
Rider's Master (Fake): Wants to win grail, but really, wants to prove himself not inferior.
Rider's Master (Real): Some flavor of Yandere.
Gilgamesh: Wants world to be awesome, according to his narrow concept of awesome, and wants to use Grail to do that.
Gilgamesh's master: That guy with the origin of "trolling" again, the cheater.
. . .
So by my count, of the like, nine Servants who show up, only two of them actually explicitly want anything out of the grail, one or two more might actually have some idea of what to do with it, and the remainder would basically be like, "huh, so now what?" Except Archer, who is here literally to sabotage himself. Because they were summoned, not by who wants it most, but by completely different criteria.
So it's really the masters who are in it for the sake of winning the grail, but from the three big houses that drive the war, the masters are all doing it because of obligation to previous generations, not because they have any flippin' clue of what they'd do with the thing, and the remainder of the masters don't even seem to really understand what the grail does in the first place. Except Kotomine, but again, his origin is trolling, so he's really just being true to that.
The Grail is a MacGuffin, it's just here to move the plot along, and the only ones that aren't willing to tacitly accept that as the <s>excuse</s> reason to have a bunch of punching contests is Saber, the party-pooper. Also that asshole Gilgamesh.
Assassin (Fake): Basically, a bouncer. Hung out a lot? Liked to fight, I guess?
Assassin's (Fake) Master: Caster.
Assassin (Real): Consummate professional who does job.
Assassin's (Real) Master: He's just doing it because that's what he wrote in his dayplanner for this century and he doesn't want to admit he has <a href='http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/9/5/' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Alzheimer's.</a>
Archer: Wants to paradox himself out of existence.
Archer's Master: Actually wants to win, sorta; it's what's expected of her.
Berserker: Protection complex? His motives aren't actually explored, on account of having no dialogue that can't be rendered (Roaring Sounds), and no internal monologue.
Berserker's Master: For the lultz. Also a brocon with daddy issues.
Caster: Wants to play house (is terrible at it).
Caster's Master #1: Died really early, actively sabotaged own chances of winning.
Caster's Master #2: Convinced to play house (had no real objections).
Lancer: Wants to fight? Acts like it's a block party for the Throne of Heros.
Lancer's Master #1: Wants to hang out with Lancer.
Lancer's Master #2: His origin is "trolling", and he's true to his origin.
Saber: Actually wants to win Grail.
Saber' Master: In WAY over his head. Mostly wants to prevent casualties.
Rider: Siscon, with regrets. Might want to fix life with grail.
Rider's Master (Fake): Wants to win grail, but really, wants to prove himself not inferior.
Rider's Master (Real): Some flavor of Yandere.
Gilgamesh: Wants world to be awesome, according to his narrow concept of awesome, and wants to use Grail to do that.
Gilgamesh's master: That guy with the origin of "trolling" again, the cheater.
. . .
So by my count, of the like, nine Servants who show up, only two of them actually explicitly want anything out of the grail, one or two more might actually have some idea of what to do with it, and the remainder would basically be like, "huh, so now what?" Except Archer, who is here literally to sabotage himself. Because they were summoned, not by who wants it most, but by completely different criteria.
So it's really the masters who are in it for the sake of winning the grail, but from the three big houses that drive the war, the masters are all doing it because of obligation to previous generations, not because they have any flippin' clue of what they'd do with the thing, and the remainder of the masters don't even seem to really understand what the grail does in the first place. Except Kotomine, but again, his origin is trolling, so he's really just being true to that.
The Grail is a MacGuffin, it's just here to move the plot along, and the only ones that aren't willing to tacitly accept that as the <s>excuse</s> reason to have a bunch of punching contests is Saber, the party-pooper. Also that asshole Gilgamesh.
...
I'm saving this breakdown of motivation, it's probably the most elegent way I've ever seen for why the Grail War is such a... something.
I mean, not only is it an abomination that consumes lives, innocent ones for prana, unluckly ones who see something they shouldn't, and the lives of masters who walked into it knowing full well the risks, not to mention the property damage it wrecks on the town...
It's all basicly happening... Because. There's a buntch of good reasons for that Because, but it doesn't change the face.
I'm saving this breakdown of motivation, it's probably the most elegent way I've ever seen for why the Grail War is such a... something.
I mean, not only is it an abomination that consumes lives, innocent ones for prana, unluckly ones who see something they shouldn't, and the lives of masters who walked into it knowing full well the risks, not to mention the property damage it wrecks on the town...
It's all basicly happening... Because. There's a buntch of good reasons for that Because, but it doesn't change the face.
Thrusting open the door, it was the smell of smoke and the unfathomable heat that forced her to take a step back at the surprise assault on her senses. Blearily blinking the dust ('dust...?') that had somehow kicked up into her eyes, Rin forced herself to squint at the sight in front of her. Though she'd expected her living room to be a mess, she didn't actually expect it to be a red barren landscape, peppered with all sorts of weapons ('with the vast majority being swords...?') piercing into the ground, with enormous gears that appeared to be suspended in the sky ('gears...?'). She'd only taken a few steps into this bizarre expanse that apparently occupied a small portion of her home, when her eyes had been drawn to movement. It was a red-garbed man a few feet away, rising from a crouch that had had him obscured by the various implements of war.
His muscled figure filled out what looked to her like a red-cloak, with black leather pants and a breast-plate and boots of similar working materials, that held onto a tall and imposing tan-skinned frame. Bone-white hair and silver, penetrating eyes and, if she permitted herself, Rin could probably admit he had a handsome face that completed his overall look...
...that is if she allowed herself to ignore how bladed steel pierced his skin from within going outwards at random intervals before withdrawing and the wounds sealing up. The one that was coming out of his skull was particularly impossible to keep from staring at.
Then he opened his mouth and Rin's uncertainness and confusion dissipated.
"-------------."
His mouth erupted with swords that stabbed outwards and retracted like a mix of mandibles or a blender, and from the depths of his throat came the screeching of hundreds of thousands of iron and steel and gold and other sorts of metals; clanging and slashing and clashing away in some undefinable symphony of battle.
Rin knew that this beast was as close to a Saber as she was going to get -though in all truthfulness- was possibly even better a Servant than she'd hoped; for all the magus heard was the sweet song of what made a blade cut away at the unnecessary and what made a sword rise and lead an army.
--------
So yeah, suggesting Rin summons Berserker EMIYA, who is so far in mind of steel, that Unlimited Blade Works is always active (maybe with a fluctuating distance) and that all his traces suffer no penalties? For backstory, he could have gotten <s>Kotomine's Magic Crest WRONGWRONGWRONG</s> a mix of Angra Mainyu / more Command Seals to keep him alive way past his expiration date on autopilot.
Why? "I suppose it will give you the barest sliver of a chance to win. After all, even if they kill you, you won't die."
His muscled figure filled out what looked to her like a red-cloak, with black leather pants and a breast-plate and boots of similar working materials, that held onto a tall and imposing tan-skinned frame. Bone-white hair and silver, penetrating eyes and, if she permitted herself, Rin could probably admit he had a handsome face that completed his overall look...
...that is if she allowed herself to ignore how bladed steel pierced his skin from within going outwards at random intervals before withdrawing and the wounds sealing up. The one that was coming out of his skull was particularly impossible to keep from staring at.
Then he opened his mouth and Rin's uncertainness and confusion dissipated.
"-------------."
His mouth erupted with swords that stabbed outwards and retracted like a mix of mandibles or a blender, and from the depths of his throat came the screeching of hundreds of thousands of iron and steel and gold and other sorts of metals; clanging and slashing and clashing away in some undefinable symphony of battle.
Rin knew that this beast was as close to a Saber as she was going to get -though in all truthfulness- was possibly even better a Servant than she'd hoped; for all the magus heard was the sweet song of what made a blade cut away at the unnecessary and what made a sword rise and lead an army.
--------
So yeah, suggesting Rin summons Berserker EMIYA, who is so far in mind of steel, that Unlimited Blade Works is always active (maybe with a fluctuating distance) and that all his traces suffer no penalties? For backstory, he could have gotten <s>Kotomine's Magic Crest WRONGWRONGWRONG</s> a mix of Angra Mainyu / more Command Seals to keep him alive way past his expiration date on autopilot.
Why? "I suppose it will give you the barest sliver of a chance to win. After all, even if they kill you, you won't die."
Fixed.
But seriously, this is a lot crazier then what I expected when I saw the thread-title.
I just figured the Grail would screw up its assistance with the summoning part, and simultaneously summon both the 5th War Canon servants, and simultaneously summon the 1st-4th War versions, while including an expanded repiotiore of command mantras and further underwriting the mana cost for supporting each individual Servant to the point where even though the Masters are supporting five Servants at full capability, the total mana drain is actually less then what it took to support a single Servant in the standard Grail wars.
Or, y'know, that the Grail summoned every individual Counter-Guardian/Anti-Hero/Heroic Spirit Servant it could, and drafted a Master for each of them; or that it re-summoned all the Servants of previous wars, and recreated their Masters as they were at the end of their own War or their time of Death, whichever came first.
Still, this sounds pretty interesting.
But seriously, this is a lot crazier then what I expected when I saw the thread-title.
I just figured the Grail would screw up its assistance with the summoning part, and simultaneously summon both the 5th War Canon servants, and simultaneously summon the 1st-4th War versions, while including an expanded repiotiore of command mantras and further underwriting the mana cost for supporting each individual Servant to the point where even though the Masters are supporting five Servants at full capability, the total mana drain is actually less then what it took to support a single Servant in the standard Grail wars.
Or, y'know, that the Grail summoned every individual Counter-Guardian/Anti-Hero/Heroic Spirit Servant it could, and drafted a Master for each of them; or that it re-summoned all the Servants of previous wars, and recreated their Masters as they were at the end of their own War or their time of Death, whichever came first.
Still, this sounds pretty interesting.
Actually, Rider is fighting for Sakura's benefit, according to HA. She accepted the summoning because she wanted to help Sakura avoid becoming a monster like she had.
Erm, what?
Sakura is not a "Yandere", and she's certainly not fighting because of her feelings for Shirou. She's involved in the war because Zouken told her to be, and she takes control of Rider in HF because she doesn't want to let Shinji hurt Shirou any further.
Erm, what?
Sakura is not a "Yandere", and she's certainly not fighting because of her feelings for Shirou. She's involved in the war because Zouken told her to be, and she takes control of Rider in HF because she doesn't want to let Shinji hurt Shirou any further.
If it's Rider, my ultimate point is that Rider wasn't in it to obtain the Grail, she was in it because of her own baggage, and I don't think you'd disagree with that. I mean if she reached the grail she might wish she hadn't gone insane and killed her sisters, but I don't think she ever was shown having like an ultimate goal. She was like Lancer, really, she just wanted to win all the punching contests and couldn't quite explain why. Well, Lancer could; he thinks punching contests are awesome.
About Sakura. Oh boy, this is gonna be a long haul.
You ever hear that old saying, "fruit flies like a banana"? It's a sort of pun about ambiguity in the English language. Cuz, is it talking about the aerodynamic properties of vegetables, or the tastes of insects?
You just made one of those.
Is it that she's fighting in the war, for reasons other than Shirou, or is that she's not participaing in the war, because of Shirou? Because I think you meant the former, whereas the next part of your argument ("takes control of Rider in HF because she doesn't want to let Shinji hurt Shirou any further") supports the latter meaning, that she's actively sitting the war out, because of Shirou.
At any rate, I think I gotta disagree with you on the whole "yandere" assessment. She's definitely higher-functioning than other Yandere in that she's capable of emotional connections with non-object-of-affection people (hence my "some flavor of" qualifier), but she's still basically pinning all her hopes and dreams on this one dude.
Also if she gets in a relationship with the guy she turns into a mass of shadows that devours souls to fuel her dark powers. That sort of thing really only happens to the final boss' third form in an RPG or a Yandere.
Really, what I was getting at was "she didn't care about the Grail, only about Shirou."
About Sakura. Oh boy, this is gonna be a long haul.
You ever hear that old saying, "fruit flies like a banana"? It's a sort of pun about ambiguity in the English language. Cuz, is it talking about the aerodynamic properties of vegetables, or the tastes of insects?
You just made one of those.
Is it that she's fighting in the war, for reasons other than Shirou, or is that she's not participaing in the war, because of Shirou? Because I think you meant the former, whereas the next part of your argument ("takes control of Rider in HF because she doesn't want to let Shinji hurt Shirou any further") supports the latter meaning, that she's actively sitting the war out, because of Shirou.
At any rate, I think I gotta disagree with you on the whole "yandere" assessment. She's definitely higher-functioning than other Yandere in that she's capable of emotional connections with non-object-of-affection people (hence my "some flavor of" qualifier), but she's still basically pinning all her hopes and dreams on this one dude.
Also if she gets in a relationship with the guy she turns into a mass of shadows that devours souls to fuel her dark powers. That sort of thing really only happens to the final boss' third form in an RPG or a Yandere.
Really, what I was getting at was "she didn't care about the Grail, only about Shirou."
Nah, have him summon the greatest Saber: Ado Edem.
It's especially good because Shirou can use his inner world to reproduce swords, and Ado Edem can use The World to make Sufficient Sword. They're mirrors.
And of course, then we get to see "Unlimited Blade Works: Slash Emperor"....
On the other hand, involving Notes is a little dark, because then the Servant will have the wish, "prevent the World from dying and turning into a shithole", and a master like Shirou or Rin or any non-sociopath would endorse that wish 100%. It's just... preventing an apocalypse is a little too dark for the concept of "crack."
Although it would be interesting, to have Shirou coming to terms with the reality that, no matter how many people he sacrifices in the war, it would totally be worth it. Path of Asura indeed, but still too conceptually dark.
It's especially good because Shirou can use his inner world to reproduce swords, and Ado Edem can use The World to make Sufficient Sword. They're mirrors.
And of course, then we get to see "Unlimited Blade Works: Slash Emperor"....
On the other hand, involving Notes is a little dark, because then the Servant will have the wish, "prevent the World from dying and turning into a shithole", and a master like Shirou or Rin or any non-sociopath would endorse that wish 100%. It's just... preventing an apocalypse is a little too dark for the concept of "crack."
Although it would be interesting, to have Shirou coming to terms with the reality that, no matter how many people he sacrifices in the war, it would totally be worth it. Path of Asura indeed, but still too conceptually dark.
Of course, Ado Edem was noted as NOT being special during the Liner/A-Ray war. It was only during battle against the Aristoteles that he was able to shine, because his weapon served as a sort of bane to Aristoteles.
Of course he is ALSO an Ether Liner with powerful armor, a powerful weapon, and lots of energy, so he'd still be an overpowered Servant, and the Aristoteles killing probably got him some absolutely BITCHING Noble Phantasm, so yeah...
Of course he is ALSO an Ether Liner with powerful armor, a powerful weapon, and lots of energy, so he'd still be an overpowered Servant, and the Aristoteles killing probably got him some absolutely BITCHING Noble Phantasm, so yeah...