Akamatsuverse Parenthood Sucks

knight_of_ni

Well-Known Member
#26
Antimatter said:
:/

Again, this sounds great till you realize it is another premise that starts off with something different, and then will immediately end up in the same stuff. The major change to minor change. Yes, he now has a kid, but he still gets kicked out (instead of being forced to move in with Haruka), and moves in at the dorm, resulting in a minor change of the greeting between Naru and Keitaro. Instead of, you know, him moving in with Haruka when he started going to university so that Sarah could see her "mom." The premise also seems to imply that all the character growth will be off screen, so we just see a different version going to the Dorms.

There is also the fact that even if Seta wakes up in the middle of the fic, a four year coma isn't something that you just shrug off. That only happens in movies (which is a bad plot device all round), and bad soap operas (as opposed to good ones?). Killing off/removing a character to get them out of the way is a sign of a fairly weak premise; which can be fine, but you have to work harder to make it work. Now, a character death as a premise can be fine, if it is meant to show the ripple effects of the death, or if it is a central aspect of the idea. Your central idea is having Keitaro be a father figure for Sarah, or at least an older sibling figure for her. That's doable without character death, or the marriage of convenience. You would need to tweak the character interactions between the two, starting with some scene, where maybe something forces them to be closer. It's not impossible.

For an example of why the character death (and general removal) is a weak premise, look no further than the Vin/Tifa fics in the FF7 section (first thing that popped in my head). There is no good way to remove Cloud from the equation without him walking out on his own; Tifa is damn dedicated, so she isn't likely to turn her back on him unless he, again, walks out or is dead. The point being, is that there is no good way to get around it so you smudge things a lot by getting rid of the main problem to the premise completely.

EDIT: Actually, the Vin/Tifa fic comparison is actually more similar than I realized at the time. The main ship fic, and the main ship author thelittletree, used Cloud walking out on Tifa as part of the basic premise. Eventually in the fic, Cloud comes back, but not before emotional ties are such that he seems out of place when he does. Had he come back too soon, everything would have gone back to the way it was before the story started. This is much the same, Seta wakes up/comes back during a time when the ties are just weak enough to make him being there kind of awkward, but just strong enough that he isn't likely to get back what he lost.
 

DhampyrX2

Well-Known Member
#27
My point is that it isn't even really funny that Keitaro would marry Haruka, unless the point it to somehow portray Haruka as a heartless bitch and call it comedy. I could see Keitaro moving in with Haruka for Sarah's sake over something like his parents fighting too much about money or something as a premise to get him there, only for the girls to draw their own conclusions, but the marriage seems like a forced and rather pointless concept.

At the end of the day, it just seems a better fit for things to have Keitaro go in another direction than a fake marriage that would force canon to happen all over again. I could see moving Keitaro and Sarah into the dorm at a later date for other reasons, but the marriage just doesn't seem to gel with everything else.

You would also take a good postion of the initial conflict away and could have the girls see Keitaro in a different light and have things evolve differently from there.
 
#28
If Seta's in a coma there'll be a strong temptation for the author to have him wake up at some point (probably towards the end of the fic) and throw the status quo into disarray. Which would be five kinds of cliche, really.

Unless the author can resist said temptation, he should probably just be killed off. Or maybe die early on, requiring Keitaro to go through the fake-marriage with Haruka in order to adopt Sarah. Maybe dropping out of Tokyo University/abandoning his plans to go there and/or marrying his cousin is what gets him kicked out of his parents' home and necessitates the move to the Hinata House in the first place.
 

runestar

Well-Known Member
#29
I could see Keitaro and Haruka staying together to give Sara some semblance of a complete family. Is there any reason they might need to get married in order to qualify for custody of Sara or anything?

Them being married in name only would be funny, but if a feasible reason cannot be had, then I rather this idea be dropped like a hot potato. :(
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
#30
runestar said:
I could see Keitaro and Haruka staying together to give Sara some semblance of a complete family. Is there any reason they might need to get married in order to qualify for custody of Sara or anything?

Them being married in name only would be funny, but if a feasible reason cannot be had, then I rather this idea be dropped like a hot potato. :(
Keitaro, not being 25, couldn't legally adopt Sarah.

the marriage was a way around that.

you could make the story work without that, you'd have to have Haruka gain custody, but basically have Keitaro raise her. His moving to Hinata sou could be a way of getting closer tot he legal guardian, perhaps due to pressure from some outside force.

would be hard to explain why Keitaro was raising her though...maybe Sarah was more comfortable living with him then with Haruka? Not sure how his parents woudl take that though.
 

DhampyrX2

Well-Known Member
#31
Antimatter said:
runestar said:
I could see Keitaro and Haruka staying together to give Sara some semblance of a complete family. Is there any reason they might need to get married in order to qualify for custody of Sara or anything?

Them being married in name only would be funny, but if a feasible reason cannot be had, then I rather this idea be dropped like a hot potato.? :(
Keitaro, not being 25, couldn't legally adopt Sarah.

the marriage was a way around that.

you could make the story work without that, you'd have to have Haruka gain custody, but basically have Keitaro raise her. His moving to Hinata sou could be a way of getting closer tot he legal guardian, perhaps due to pressure from some outside force.

would be hard to explain why Keitaro was raising her though...maybe Sarah was more comfortable living with him then with Haruka? Not sure how his parents woudl take that though.
If he's been caring for Sarah for since she was three or four and was familiar to her as opposed to Haruka who she may have seen a few times in her life and is an unknown it would work. Especially if Seta had asked Keitaro to promise to take care of her if anything happened to him. We all know how seriously Keitaro takes promises. That could even be the reason he leaves home. His parents don't want him to spend all of his time taking care of Seta's daughter when they feel it should be Haruka's reponsibility and Keitaro will not abandon a promise, so he takes her to Haruka and stays there with her. No marriage, just a keen sense of personal duty and honor. Classic Keitaro.
 
#32
but if you want a "marriage" jus let Haruka trolling everyone saying that she is Keitaro's wifw, and let them come with their own conclusions
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
#33
DhampyrX2 said:
Antimatter said:
runestar said:
I could see Keitaro and Haruka staying together to give Sara some semblance of a complete family. Is there any reason they might need to get married in order to qualify for custody of Sara or anything?

Them being married in name only would be funny, but if a feasible reason cannot be had, then I rather this idea be dropped like a hot potato.á :(
Keitaro, not being 25, couldn't legally adopt Sarah.

the marriage was a way around that.

you could make the story work without that, you'd have to have Haruka gain custody, but basically have Keitaro raise her. His moving to Hinata sou could be a way of getting closer tot he legal guardian, perhaps due to pressure from some outside force.

would be hard to explain why Keitaro was raising her though...maybe Sarah was more comfortable living with him then with Haruka? Not sure how his parents woudl take that though.
If he's been caring for Sarah for since she was three or four and was familiar to her as opposed to Haruka who she may have seen a few times in her life and is an unknown it would work. Especially if Seta had asked Keitaro to promise to take care of her if anything happened to him. We all know how seriously Keitaro takes promises. That could even be the reason he leaves home. His parents don't want him to spend all of his time taking care of Seta's daughter when they feel it should be Haruka's reponsibility and Keitaro will not abandon a promise, so he takes her to Haruka and stays there with her. No marriage, just a keen sense of personal duty and honor. Classic Keitaro.
that works Well.

even has an obvious lead up to him becoming manager: Haruka's place is too small to serve as a family hop and a business.

when grandma leaves, she just chooses the only 'free' relative to replace her, while at the same time giving Sarah more space of her own.

Not to mention Haruka's too busy to run it herself.

could lead to the interesting twist of keitaro not being some unknown who suddenly shows up, but rather someone the girls though of, if only in passing, who also could show up much earlier then in canon.

More experience with him + better first impressions should equal quite a bit different in the beginning. Some who were colder toward him may not be, while others like kitsune who were very flirty might back off a bit.

No guarantee he'd fall for Naru ether, as without he standing up for him in the beginning against the rest, I don't think they woudl generate the same sort of bond.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#34
Come to their own conclusions? There's no room for interpretation, even if it is a lie.
 

mswolfe17

Well-Known Member
#35
Google is apparently not my friend anymore. :sweat2:

When I first posted this topic, I did some research on a website that said that in order to adopt in Japan, it's almost guaranteed that they want you to be married. According to some rules about that, Single males are not allowed to adopt, so no chance of Keitaro adopting her by himself.

Can't find that damn site anymore. :rant:


Also, further research on another site reveals that most adoptions, on average, cost $20,000. Where would Haruka get money like that? Keitaro might have it as money in a trust fund for college. Which could be another reason why he gets kicked out of the house, for giving up on Tokyo U for now, unless he manages to get a scholarship.

Oh that reminds me, I probably need to kill Seta off, readers objections be damned. Like mentioned, Seta being alive throws a wrench in the works for the adoption.
 
#36
conclusions about if she is trolling everybody or if she is actually telling the truth
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
#37
mswolfe17 said:
Google is apparently not my friend anymore. :sweat2:

When I first posted this topic, I did some research on a website that said that in order to adopt in Japan, it's almost guaranteed that they want you to be married. According to some rules about that, Single males are not allowed to adopt, so no chance of Keitaro adopting her by himself.

Can't find that damn site anymore. :rant:


Also, further research on another site reveals that most adoptions, on average, cost $20,000. Where would Haruka get money like that? Keitaro might have it as money in a trust fund for college. Which could be another reason why he gets kicked out of the house, for giving up on Tokyo U for now, unless he manages to get a scholarship.

Oh that reminds me, I probably need to kill Seta off, readers objections be damned. Like mentioned, Seta being alive throws a wrench in the works for the adoption.
Would the same costs apply in cases were one person wills custody to another?
 

crazyfoxdemon

Well-Known Member
#38
mswolfe17 said:
Also, further research on another site reveals that most adoptions, on average, cost $20,000. Where would Haruka get money like that? Keitaro might have it as money in a trust fund for college. Which could be another reason why he gets kicked out of the house, for giving up on Tokyo U for now, unless he manages to get a scholarship.
He could go to Granny Hina for help..
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#39
Hina would do the same thing she did in canon. Leave him to fend off the wolves and watch the carnage from secret video cameras.
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
#40
zeebee1 said:
Hina would do the same thing she did in canon. Leave him to fend off the wolves and watch the carnage from secret video cameras.
But I don't think shed be heartless enough to deny keitaro the money if he needed it.

Hell, most of love hina was a giant setup for her grandson's benefit.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#41
Antimatter said:
zeebee1 said:
Hina would do the same thing she did in canon. Leave him to fend off the wolves and watch the carnage from secret video cameras.
But I don't think shed be heartless enough to deny keitaro the money if he needed it.

Hell, most of love hina was a giant setup for her grandson's benefit.
No... I think it was for *her* benefit (for sure it was so she could go on her world jaunt for hot springs and what not)... but I agree she is not heartless... just a manipulative old crone not above betrayal for her plans.
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
#42
PCHeintz72 said:
Antimatter said:
zeebee1 said:
Hina would do the same thing she did in canon. Leave him to fend off the wolves and watch the carnage from secret video cameras.
But I don't think shed be heartless enough to deny keitaro the money if he needed it.

Hell, most of love hina was a giant setup for her grandson's benefit.
No... I think it was for *her* benefit (for sure it was so she could go on her world jaunt for hot springs and what not)... but I agree she is not heartless... just a manipulative old crone not above betrayal for her plans.
except she went on the jaunt long before keitaro got there.
 

PCHeintz72

The Sentient Fanfic Search Engine mk II
#43
Antimatter said:
PCHeintz72 said:
Antimatter said:
zeebee1 said:
Hina would do the same thing she did in canon. Leave him to fend off the wolves and watch the carnage from secret video cameras.
But I don't think shed be heartless enough to deny keitaro the money if he needed it.

Hell, most of love hina was a giant setup for her grandson's benefit.
No... I think it was for *her* benefit (for sure it was so she could go on her world jaunt for hot springs and what not)... but I agree she is not heartless... just a manipulative old crone not above betrayal for her plans.
except she went on the jaunt long before keitaro got there.
Correct...

With Haruka temporarily in charge... but since Haruka was split between the tea house and dorm... she dumped the dorm on Keitaro. Without even showing to tell the girls in person, or no notice, or anything.
 

crazyfoxdemon

Well-Known Member
#44
PCHeintz72 said:
Antimatter said:
zeebee1 said:
Hina would do the same thing she did in canon. Leave him to fend off the wolves and watch the carnage from secret video cameras.
But I don't think shed be heartless enough to deny keitaro the money if he needed it.

Hell, most of love hina was a giant setup for her grandson's benefit.
No... I think it was for *her* benefit (for sure it was so she could go on her world jaunt for hot springs and what not)... but I agree she is not heartless... just a manipulative old crone not above betrayal for her plans.
I disagree.. I think for her it was a win/win situation.. I think she wanted to retire and lo and behold, there was a perfect opportunity to do something good for her grandson.

I'll agree that was she did was a little manipulative, I just think it was done with good intentions.
 

mswolfe17

Well-Known Member
#45
Antimatter said:
mswolfe17 said:
Google is apparently not my friend anymore. :sweat2:

When I first posted this topic, I did some research on a website that said that in order to adopt in Japan, it's almost guaranteed that they want you to be married. According to some rules about that, Single males are not allowed to adopt, so no chance of Keitaro adopting her by himself.

Can't find that damn site anymore.á :rant:


Also, further research on another site reveals that most adoptions, on average, cost $20,000. Where would Haruka get money like that? Keitaro might have it as money in a trust fund for college. Which could be another reason why he gets kicked out of the house, for giving up on Tokyo U for now, unless he manages to get a scholarship.

Oh that reminds me, I probably need to kill Seta off, readers objections be damned. Like mentioned, Seta being alive throws a wrench in the works for the adoption.
Would the same costs apply in cases were one person wills custody to another?
In this, we're going with the assumption that Seta is too happy-go-lucky to have a will, despite what he does for a day job/hobby. He's too busy being dead (or in a coma) to write his will then.

As for Hina giving him the money? Possible, but also somewhat cliche. He might not even ask her if he's made a promise to Sarah to take care of her as best as he can without relying on other people.

Also, one thing to note is that my research also noted that in order to make a special adoption, one must have taken care of the child at least since they were 6 years old. Haruka doesn't fit this bill by herself, so she can't adopt Sarah and stay single at the same time. Keitaro is the only one who can adopt Sarah, but he's not old enough, so he needs to get married to someone of the right age, as I stated before.

I didn't come up with the Haruka/Keitaro thing as just a way to force the two together, people, I actually thought some of this stuff out. I know I might ship the two together, but that's what makes this story unusual. I'm not promoting them getting together for romance, only for Sarah.
 
#46
But if Keitaro's dedicated to caring for Sarah as best he can, would he really be willing to reject aid if it were offered and allowed him to better provide for her?
 

mswolfe17

Well-Known Member
#48
shioran toushin said:
no, but he would not acivelly seek it unless it was absolutely necesary
Right, right. Canon Keitaro wouldn't go out of his way to ask for help unless it was truly needed. Especially if he promised to take care of Sarah without burdening his family.

Let me rephrase that. Especially if he promised to take care of Sarah without burdening his family more then he absolutely has to.
 
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