[Persona 3] The Transfer Students

[GenocideHeart]

Yeah, thanks to P3P, I'm on a new Persona high lately. Been thinking, what if the MC isn't the ONLY transfer student to Gekkoukan High? Could it change the events and ultimate outcome of the game?

A few choice picks:

-Kunio and Riki from the Nekketsu series (River City ransom, in case you are wondering)
-Mao and Raspberyl from Disgaea 3, as part of an <s>abduction</s> exchange student plan gone awry. In fact, damn near anyone from D3 would be fun, including the teachers (Mr. Champloo!)
-Anybody from Rival Schools
-Any student character from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (Josuke and Jotaro are the most obvious choices)
-The Hitoshura, Isamu, Chiaki and Raidou Kuzunoha the XIV (from the recent SMT: Nocturne remake)

Feel free to add or suggest more!

 

[Liam-don]

The MC from P4.

 

[GenocideHeart]

The MC from P4.

Eh, but P4 takes place what, two-three years later? Seta might well not be of the correct age to be in high school just yet...

 

[Watashiwa]

The MC from P4.

Eh, but P4 takes place what, two-three years later? Seta might well not be of the correct age to be in high school just yet...

He's in his last year of middle school when Persona 3 happens. That said, Ken is an elementary student.

 

[Liam-don]

He's arguably someone who could influence the events of the game without being so absurdly powerful as to overshadow everyone else. Though I'm not sure he could affect the ending anyhow.

 

[GenocideHeart]

The problem is that Igor implies only one person can be associated to an Arcana at a time. Souji and Minato both have the World as affiliation, which means one of the two won't be able to use Persona at all, since the other one has the World.

My suggestions, if you notice, include either people who gleefully disregard common sense (Kunio and Riki, the Rival Schools cast), or nonhumans which presumably won't be affected by the Dark Hour (the Disgaea suggestions and the Nocturne cast).

 

[Sect]

The problem is that Igor implies only one person can be associated to an Arcana at a time. Souji and Minato both have the World as affiliation, which means one of the two won't be able to use Persona at all, since the other one has the World.

When was this? Besides, Minato doesn't have World as one of his Arcana: he has Fool, Death, Judgement, and Universe as his Arcana.

 

[GenocideHeart]

The problem is that Igor implies only one person can be associated to an Arcana at a time. Souji and Minato both have the World as affiliation, which means one of the two won't be able to use Persona at all, since the other one has the World.

When was this? Besides, Minato doesn't have World as one of his Arcana: he has Fool, Death, Judgement, and Universe as his Arcana.

My bad, the overlapping Arcana is Fool, actually. Not that it matters, as Elizabeth having the World AND being an active Persona user means Souji is boned in BOTH his choices - Minato has the Fool active as his dominant affiliation until he gets the Universe arcana, and Liz has the World. And you'll notice that there aren't any Persona users who overlap their dominant arcana with the player characters as well... well except for the mains, but that's their gimmick due to Minato and Souji's status.

Igor mentions the 'only one main Arcana user active' bit in P3P in the middlish part of the game, btw.

 

[Liam-don]

Minato and Souji are Wild Cards. They're associated with every Arcanas. And I notice that you just said as much, so you're point is moot really.

 

[Sect]

The problem is that Igor implies only one person can be associated to an Arcana at a time. Souji and Minato both have the World as affiliation, which means one of the two won't be able to use Persona at all, since the other one has the World.

When was this? Besides, Minato doesn't have World as one of his Arcana: he has Fool, Death, Judgement, and Universe as his Arcana.

My bad, the overlapping Arcana is Fool, actually. Not that it matters, as Elizabeth having the World AND being an active Persona user means Souji is boned in BOTH his choices - Minato has the Fool active as his dominant affiliation until he gets the Universe arcana, and Liz has the World. And you'll notice that there aren't any Persona users who overlap their dominant arcana with the player characters as well... well except for the mains, but that's their gimmick due to Minato and Souji's status.

Igor mentions the 'only one main Arcana user active' bit in P3P in the middlish part of the game, btw.

Okay, I guess that's why I haven't heard that rule before: I'm only in September of P3P. Still, it strikes me as being an awfully silly rule: what are the chances that every single Persona user in a specific area will all have different Arcana, especially if there's more than twenty-two users.

Still, even if we go by those rules, I don't see what's wrong with assigning Souji a different Arcana to play with: it's not like Persona haven't been shuffled around from game to game anyways.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Minato and Souji are Wild Cards. They're associated with every Arcanas. And I notice that you just said as much, so you're point is moot really.

No, the Wild Card means they can USE any Arcana's Persona, but they have a major affiliation to specific Arcana (Fool for them both, World for Souji, Judgment and Death for Minato), and NOBODY ELSE normally gets to use those Arcana in the same game.

The Judgment Arcana in P3 is exclusive to the main if you choose to not kill Ryoji, Death is hinted at as being Minato's true Arcana in the final battle against Nyx (the subtext is there, read carefully what's being said), and is exclusive to him anyway, plus it's associated with Pharos who was sealed in him, the Fool is again exclusive to them, and the World arcana is used by Elizabeth in P3 exclusively, and by Souji only in P4, where there's ONLY ONE World Persona to boot.

So my point stands. There's never, ever more than one Persona user strongly associated with any given Arcana. Which makes sense, what with how bloody RARE the power is.

Still, even if we go by those rules, I don't see what's wrong with assigning Souji a different Arcana to play with: it's not like Persona haven't been shuffled around from game to game anyways.

Wrong again. Check the old Persona games: any and all returning characters from one game to another RETAIN THE SAME ARCANA AFFINITY. Eriko Kirishima, Kei Nanjou, Tatsuya Suou, Yukiko Mayuzumi, Maya Amano... they all have the exact same major affinity they had in the original. Persona affinities NEVER get shuffled around. That's a cardinal rule that's been in place since the very first game, and the only exception was the Joker persona's possession, which was Nyarlathotep trolling around, anyway.

If anything, the newer game make Persona abilities rare and much more diluited. It seems that with Nyarlathotep and Philemon no longer running the show, Persona users got hit with the nerfbat - prior to Persona 3, the Wild Card was nothing special, as with some minor exceptions, anyone could use any Persona - even if using a Persona they weren't compatible with incurred in a massive MP cost penalty, and everyone only had ONE Arcana they had 'Great' compatibility with.

 

[Liam-don]

How many playable characters in the games? How many major Arcanas is there?

Yeah, it's really surprising that there's no overlap.-_-

 

[Sect]

Still, even if we go by those rules, I don't see what's wrong with assigning Souji a different Arcana to play with: it's not like Persona haven't been shuffled around from game to game anyways.

Wrong again. Check the old Persona games: any and all returning characters from one game to another RETAIN THE SAME ARCANA AFFINITY.

Not what I was referring to, but I see your point. I was talking about Persona summonable by Minato being different Arcana than Souji's.

Though, that makes me think of something else: what was Adachi's Arcana in Persona 4? That person, aside from Margaret, was the only other full fledged Persona user in the game, and considering the circumstances...

Something else that popped into my mind: even if Souji was to be present, why would he have a Persona? He only got his after meeting Izanami during the events of Persona 4. For that matter, what the hell is the trigger in Persona 3? It was pretty well defined in 4, but the only ones we know anything about in 3 is the Main Character (Aigis' and Nyx's fault), Mitsuru and Strega (experimentation), and Aigis (artificial, though the methods behind that are unknown).

 

[grant]

My pet theory is that it has to do with humanity and the unconscious and assorted pseudo-psychology. We know that the Shadows and Persona (Personae?) are the same and we know that Persona 4 is heavily linked to human psychology so why not simply claim that the local population started manifesting Shadows and some humans awakened to Persona as a result. Of course then you've got the problem of Teddy and - oh dear I've gone cross eyed.

 

[Watashiwa]

*Watashiwaáraises his hand

I was under the impression that Souji was naturally aligned to Star. My thought was that Teddie is Souji's natural Persona, displaced when Izanami makes contact with him at the very start of the game.

Also GH, Eikichi and Reiji would like a word with you... something about paradoxes and only being one of each Arcana?

Also, the multiple Persona ability strictly comes from Philemon. Persona users granted the power by Nyarlathotep lack the ability to use more than one Persona, and the butterflies Minato and Seta see at the start of their respective games are indeed Philemon himself.

Also Sect, there is no "Universe arcana" in the series. Minato's final Persona is the Universe, of the World Arcana. Which is a bad joke, because in some tarot decks the World is called Universe...

 

[Ryuugi]

Also Sect, there is no "Universe arcana" in the series. Minato's final Persona is the Universe, of the World Arcana. Which is a bad joke, because in some tarot decks the World is called Universe...

Actually, this is wrong. There is a Universe Arcana, it's just that Minato is the only person to ever use it. It's also an Arcana in real life, just not a part of the Rider-Waite Tarot Deck like the others, but rather part of the Thoth Deck, numbered XXI, replacing The World Arcana.

But yeah, it's a different Arcana from the World in P3.

 

[Watashiwa]

Also Sect, there is no "Universe arcana" in the series. Minato's final Persona is the Universe, of the World Arcana.? Which is a bad joke, because in some tarot decks the World is called Universe...

Actually, this is wrong. There is a Universe Arcana, it's just that Minato is the only person to ever use it. It's also an Arcana in real life, just not a part of the Rider-Waite Tarot Deck like the others, but rather part of the Thoth Deck, numbered XXI, replacing The World Arcana.

But yeah, it's a different Arcana from the World in P3.

Mmm... Nope. Final conversation with Igor just refers to the card. He says "What you have in your hands is the power of the Universe." No mention of arcana.

<a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrGP9ssc_TE' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>8:25 is it.</a>

 

[Ryuugi]

Yeah, he also doesn't say it's part of the World Arcana (only Elizabeth has that card in P3, anyway). And the Universe is, as I said, an Arcana.

Interestingly, as the sole owner of it, Minato may very well be the strongest Character in the Persona Line.

(Well, if those hax Fusion Raids didn't already make him take. Where did I put that pick of Souji being outlined in chalk and labeled 'small fry'?

 

[Serxeid]

So we're saying that Minato has a power that surpasses The World? B)

*resists the urge to cross JoJo into the P4 Twitter I'm working on*

 

[Watashiwa]

I always figured that Orpheus Telos was a World Persona. Y'know, Fool's journey and all that. Problem is, he's a "Kai". Upgraded version of the initial Persona. Philemon handed them out to Tatsuya, Maya and crew. They were always the same arcana as the original though.

Oh, also figure it's worth mentioning: World Persona are only super-special in P3/4. In P2 they were just high-ranking Personas.

 

[Sect]

Interesting... Reiji's initial Persona is Devil, and his ultimate is Death...

Anyways, I pulled Minato using the Universe Arcana from the Megaten Wikia site, but I don't have any reason to doubt it's accuracy, considering that Aeon is another Arcana usable by Minato. Aeon is also from the Thoth deck, and replaces Judgement in it.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Also GH, Eikichi and Reiji would like a word with you... something about paradoxes and only being one of each Arcana?

Do remember that Nyarlathotep was screwing around and trolling the world in the Persona 2 period, and pretty much all of the unusual events (up to and including the Joker Curse) are his fault.

Hell, the entire P1 and P2 storyline involves alternate timelines, paradoxes and screwing with reality. Eternal Punishment is ENTIRELY taking place in a paradox timeline that's falling apart...

 

[nick012000]

What about Emiya Shirou? Personas are manifestations of the soul of the users, right? Sort of wonder what his would look like; it'd probably involve swords and/or gears. Maybe the <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Swords' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>King of Swords</a> and/or the <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_of_Swords' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Knight of Swords</a> if Minor Arcana are allowed; I don't know much about the rules of that universe, since I've never played the games.

 

[Watashiwa]

Oh, back to our earlier argument Sect, I just remembered something. The Universe Persona is in the game. If you cheat and give it to yourself, he knows every Fusion Spell in the game.

Yes, all of them.

Also, Mitsuru and Fuuka call you on this.

GH: Uh, dude? The Dark Hour sure as hell ain't normal. It's a vision of what the world will look like after the fall. If that isn't a paradox I don't know what is. But I'm not disagreeing with you; on the contrary I'm saying we need to expand what you were saying there. Persona powers are only granted when reality is compromised.

Also, arcana affinities totally cross over. Check Persona 1 again. More than one characters can have "Best" affinity for an arcana.

 

[Sect]

I was under the impression that Souji was naturally aligned to Star. My thought was that Teddie is Souji's natural Persona, displaced when Izanami makes contact with him at the very start of the game.

You know, I was looking at this, and I can see a few things that could support it (namely, Teddie appearing in the Velvetmobile and the whole Nihil Hand thing), but I'm really becoming a fan of the theory that Teddie is actually Lucifer. TVTropes has a whole thing about it, and it's actually pretty interesting (and hilarious, since it would involve the Day Star in a bear suit and a dress.