Naruto Project Sayumayu Discussion Thread

Daneel Rush

Well-Known Member
#1
As per the suggestion of forum members, I have opened a thread for open (my bad) discussion of the "Sayumayu" setting.

What the Hell?
"Project Sayumayu" was a world-building experiment that followed the ill-fated first version of "Naruto Genkyouien". I took elements of traditional Japanese mythology and completely tainted them with my filthy touch. Then I "Japanized" some elements from the setting I use for my D&D campaigns, added a smidgen of School Days and Lovecraft, and then shoved the unholy offspring of that union into the "Naruto" setting. The result was a "setting-introduction" story, Naruto Genkyouien, which has fortunately reached a satisfactory conclusion some weeks ago (the story has not yet been released in its entirety in the fanfiction.net website).

In addition to "Genkyouien", the Project Sayumayu Official Workshop contains setting information that complements the story and your knowledge of the "canon" Naruto setting. It will continue to be updated, regardless of whether I write additional stories in the setting or not.

What This Thread is For
To allow those interested to continue discussing "Genkyouien" and the "Sayumayu" setting. Please feel free to discuss how you think the story could, might and/or should continue.

I will also use it to rant about Sayumayu from time to time and preview Workshop content before I place it in the website. I'll probably end up teasing my readers a lot, so please bear with me.
 

atlas_hugged

Well-Known Member
#2
The questions most lingering in my mind after the end (very well done btw) are all related to Nue. All that I recall knowing is that it's the most powerful, by virtue of being at near perfect mastery of all 4 aeons. It also appears as a female version of whatever the observer believes is the most powerful.

I'd like to know how, if at all, it relates to Naruto's tale. I'd just like to know more about it generally really.
 
#3
atlas_hugged said:
The questions most lingering in my mind after the end (very well done btw) are all related to Nue. All that I recall knowing is that it's the most powerful, by virtue of being at near perfect mastery of all 4 aeons. It also appears as a female version of whatever the observer believes is the most powerful.

I'd like to know how, if at all, it relates to Naruto's tale. I'd just like to know more about it generally really.
Pretty sure Daneel said that Nue isn't the most powerful due to nearly mastering all the aeons, but the game-breaking way it combines them. Also it doesn't appear as a female version, but simply as who the observer believes to be the most powerful, can be either male or female.
 

AJ_Katon

Well-Known Member
#5
Will you utilize any of the Sayumayu in any original fiction projects?
 

Yorae Rasante

Well-Known Member
#6
DemonEyesBob said:
Did we ever find out the "weakness of all kyuubi"? I have a guess, but was wondering if I'd just somehow missed it actually being laid out for us.
Pretty sure it was explicitly said that it's that they can't use their full powers in human form, just in fox form.
 

Daneel Rush

Well-Known Member
#10
I'll tackle your questions in due time, but right now I'll take the chance to rant about something only tangential to Sayumayu.

You see, some days ago I wasted an hour or two of my life to try out Overflow's "Strip Battle Days". It's merely a step away from PWP: the girls of the infamous "Days" series are competing in a Strip Rock-Paper-Scissors battle royale of all things. Some are doing it to settle who keeps Makoto once and for all, some are doing it for the lulz. You control the generic nameless and faceless porn game protagonist, who joins forces with one of the girls of your choosing to beat the others and have your way with the defeated ladies. I was expected absolutely nothing, but despite its silly premise, the game turned out to be well immersed in the setting which has been developed since "School Days". Kotonoha was still beyond pitiful, Youko was hot as hell, Setsuna was amusing, Sekai shone by her absence (but Setsuna's scenario suggested she was, at least, not dead).

But I'm ranting about this mostly to write about Kokoro. Because Kokoro was the closest thing to a "main heroine" in this game. Furthermore, it gave us the first canon depiction of an older Kokoro, who was apparently also a time traveler (don't ask).

She was beautiful, I must say. Maybe even prettier-looking than her big sister. But HOLY SHIT was she jaded. And I realized why School Days and its prequels/spin-offs/whatever have become a cult series: the makers of these horrible, horrible games go all the way with their wickedness, until it becomes some sort of grotesque joke that amuses about as much as it makes players uncomfortable, because it's an exaggeration of something that could have been a little too real. You see, Makoto is a terrible person (can future games top his assholeishness in Cross Day? I don't know if I want to find out!), and a number of routes have shown that being a terrible person inevitably leads to terrible things happening to you and to the people close to you. Which brings me back to Kokoro.

Apparently this game takes place in a timeline in which Makoto raped little Kokoro (it cannot be "Summer Days", though), and we get to see what such an event has done to the girl. And it's somewhat intense to see because Kokoro's not just your run-of-the-mill rapey game heroine; it's a character we've known for years already. Which made it all the sadder to see this broken, jaded, bitter, man-hating woman who keeps up this tough-girl act despite it being obvious she's utterly terrified of the mere act of interacting with the MC. It doesn't help that your faceless MC is, like Makoto, kind of an asshole. It also doesn't help that Kokoro's childhood experience is currently colored by teenage hormones. And then she gets to learn (through sex, of course) that her so-called "love" for Makoto was her misunderstanding the full depths what she has become. It was all incredibly sad, which was a real shame because, as I wrote earlier, she's so goddamn pretty.

Alright, rant over.

P.S. Also, Island Days. I think the fact they don't have to bother with sex scenes gave them free time to go all out on the scary, crazy shit. Damn.
 

Daneel Rush

Well-Known Member
#12
I was rather busy lately, but I finally found the time to finish the third update: Naruto's new profile, including two whole new pieces that showcase the new jutsu presentation format. A reference document for that will be part of the next update.

Now let's tackle some questions!

About Nue (atlas_hugged)
Nue is the Ultimate One; the pinnacle living being of the Sayumayu setting. Using a Jojo reference, Nue is Kars. It stands at the top of the evolutionary pyramid due to its ability as the supreme shapechanger. Furthermore, the perfect attack and defense: Utsusemi. Nue is always seen as "the strongest creature", so basically every brain creates its own image of "what Nue must look like". It doesn't have to look like a particular person; its appearance can be a completely unreal mental construct.

Nue would enter Naruto's story because, as the ultimate being, everybody wants to kill it (of course). This would force Naruto to face your typical, run-of-the-mill "who's the real monster" dilemma, with a dash of Akatsuki. Also, the way to actually touch Nue would be revealed fairly quickly.

Kyuubi's Weakness (DemonEyesBob )
Well, it is understandable that Yuria found the weakness she believes she can exploit. Different people with different skills have different weaknesses. Sayuri's far from unstoppable by non-Kyuubi; it's the reason Higashiyama won't just sent her in preemptive strikes against other clans.

Spirit Techniques and the Use of Souls (DemonEyesBob )
The use of souls to fuel techniques and the transmutation of souls are, of course, unnatural events that act against the intended way of things. Such techniques are at all possible only because of ancient pacts between King Enma, Inari-ookami and his children, the kitsune. Most souls used in kitsune Reiton jutsu are eventually restored to normalcy and allowed to go on to Meido to meet Enma. Kitsune powerful enough to actually spend souls to fuel their techniques or pull souls back into the Impure Land have their own personal "contracts" with the King of Naraka that limit how many souls they can tamper with and to what extent. Yuri is one of the world's foremost Reiton users, so she gets plenty of allowances from the gods in that regard.

These deals and contracts are all but engraved in the souls of kitsune, and it takes particularly powerful and/or insane youko to break the terms of those deals. Humans are not limited in such ways, which allows people like Kabuto to pull off the kind of bullshit he displayed in the canon Shinobi War.

Will you utilize any of the Sayumayu in any original fiction projects? (AJ_Katon)
It's rather the other way around: I've taken things from my personal projects and adapted them for Sayumayu. The cosmogony and cosmology come are a mixture of my D&D original campaign setting "Liber" and the Japanese creation myths described in the Kojiki and the Nihon Shoki. Shizuku and the Nagashirakawa clan I created for a short-lived Naruto-based tabletop RPG I and a friend came up with in our college days. They were originally humans, though.

Many other elements and characters come from my roleplaying materials, most of them modified to fit the Sayumayu setting. Some ideas for jutsu come from the original manuscript for "Death & Beyond" written with an old typewriter when I was 13. I constantly recycle ideas whenever I move from a fanfic project to another.

And there is always a Takako.

How advanced a technique of Creation is shaping 'Chaos' into a new part of Reality? (AoMythology)
Advanced enough that it has not been achieved many times in the thousands of years of human and youkai history, but definitely not impossible. The hardest part is figuring out there is, indeed, a "Chaos" out there beyond even Oblivion, and then reaching for it.

* Sayoko saw the Chaos once, but did not try to reach for it. Taming Oblivion was good enough for her.
* Tamamo was aware of the Chaos the same way people are generally aware of their own breathing. She, like all powers she tapped into, used it to punch people.
* Mimune could reshape Chaos merely by speaking, but she never figured out that was what she was doing when "creating things with her voice". Had she been aware of the mechanism behind her powers, it is likely she would have been unbeatable and immortal.
* Kaguya made the Chaos into putty in her hands. In her later days she created entire dimensions to entertain herself. Kaguya and Yurie would have gotten along swimmingly.
* Hagoromo touched the Chaos once when Sayoko guided him towards it. He wisely chose not to tamper with it.
* In current times, the people closer to achieving such a feat are Nagato, Kougon and Mayuri. Madara would be in that list if he were not an idiot. Also, he's quite old by now; far from his prime.
 

AoMythology

Apparently a report-er
#13
In current times, the people closer to achieving such a feat are Nagato, Kougon and Mayuri. Madara would be in that list if he were not an idiot. Also, he's quite old by now; far from his prime.
What about Utahime? Or have the powers that be somehow sealed away the Shionzaki clan's potential for this after the Mimune debacle? Edit: So Chaos in not Aeon-specific, right? It can be used by users of different Aeons in different ways (question: what are those different ways for each?) and even by those who wield otherworldly powers. But my other question is 'why and how is Mayuri close to it?'
 

AoMythology

Apparently a report-er
#15
Something I had wondered: how was it possible for Sayoko to come back from being swallowed by the Void? Isn't it supposed to be impossible?
 
#16
The nine-tailed demon fox. Its mighty tails can crumble mountains, cause tsunamis, and set things on fire. Lots of fire. It might have been better if she actually were an evil entity bent on destroying the world.
Am I the only one who sees the irony in this now, considering she is a lot closer to becoming Destruction incarnated. I wonder if AltFuture!Sayuri contemplates this.
 

Daneel Rush

Well-Known Member
#17
The Sayumayu website has been updated with profiles for Kotonoha, Kokoro, and Setsuna; the latter missing the jutsu subsections. In addition, the link to the Jutsu Format Reference Document has been added to the FrontPage.

AoMythology said:
What about Utahime? Or have the powers that be somehow sealed away the Shionzaki clan's potential for this after the Mimune debacle? Edit: So Chaos in not Aeon-specific, right? It can be used by users of different Aeons in different ways (question: what are those different ways for each?) and even by those who wield otherworldly powers. But my other question is 'why and how is Mayuri close to it?'
Utahime's power lies on what she can achieve at the head of a Great Chorus. While she's quite amazing by herself, she does not reach the tier of the truly beyond exceptional.

Chaos exists beyond Reality, so the Aeons have absolutely nothing to do with it and with how those who tap into it could wield it. Mayuri is close to it because, thanks to Touzai Kokon, she is in a way close to everything.

AoMythology said:
Something I had wondered: how was it possible for Sayoko to come back from being swallowed by the Void? Isn't it supposed to be impossible?
I could rant at length about it, and I might if I ever write her final day among the living. However, I think this works far better as a part of the big unknown. What's truly important is that everybody believes it's impossible, like some natural law, yet this otherwise unassuming woman simply said "no" and just went and did it. In that way she acts as an example to everybody else in that world, human and youkai. Just like Tamamo subjugated all things in Heaven and Earth; just like Kaguya and her son brought the gift of chakra and jutsu, respectively, to humankind; just like Empress!Yuria pacified all youkai species and crowned herself Hegemon of All Things Under Heaven; just like canon!Naruto connected with the nine Tailed Beasts and the future!Naruto we've met connected with the Silver Key and the Things beyond the Gate.

The Sayumayu setting is defined by the lives and deeds of those who laughed on the face of "impossible".
 

AoMythology

Apparently a report-er
#18
Thanks Daneel. (Edit2: I actually thought she might have pieced herself together with a variation of Mushoku Saisei, but you are right, the Rule of Cool probably works better.)

At risk of becoming annoying with repeated questions (and please tell me if you're fed up), I have something (yet) more to ask. What Aeon do common jutsu and Systems belong to?

We now know that the Shadow Clone comes from Creation and we knew tail-growing techniques (and Enhancements) are from Existence. But which Aeon do Spirit jutsu come from? And is it Water-Lightning: Creation, Wind-Earth: Existence and Fire: Destruction? Or something else? Do Enchantments always have to do with Creation? (Which would explain why Sayoko lost them.) Are Illusions something that can be used by all Aeons in different ways?

(Edit: Never mind the Illusions/Enchantments, since you explained on the pbworks site. Just now reading the new articles. Still not sure if Fubuki's Void illusions count as Illusions or not.)
 
#20
I've done so many re-reads already, but didn't think I'd be doing a complete one so soon, damn man. Might as well pack up on tea bags!
 
#22
Man finished that re-read, pretty sure another will be coming sooner or later, it was something else to see the shift in story from the early Kyuubi are the strongest to Kyuubi might not be the strongest.

Which brings forth a question.
Just how many Kitsune know about the Kyuubi duo getting beaten, and what is the general thought about the events at Konoha among Kitsune kind?
 

AoMythology

Apparently a report-er
#23
ibrahimthejoker said:
Man finished that re-read, pretty sure another will be coming sooner or later, it was something else to see the shift in story from the early Kyuubi are the strongest to Kyuubi might not be the strongest.

Which brings forth a question.
Just how many Kitsune know about the Kyuubi duo getting beaten, and what is the general thought about the events at Konoha among Kitsune kind?
Probably something about The Sleeping Terror being teh OP. :p
 
#24
AoMythology said:
ibrahimthejoker said:
Man finished that re-read, pretty sure another will be coming sooner or later, it was something else to see the shift in story from the early Kyuubi are the strongest to Kyuubi might not be the strongest.

Which brings forth a question.
Just how many Kitsune know about the Kyuubi duo getting beaten, and what is the general thought about the events at Konoha among Kitsune kind?
Probably something about The Sleeping Terror being teh OP. :p
Why did I read OP as one piece....

Anyway, I thought that a number of Kitsune would try and hide the info, or would be disbelieving of it, like Kougon's daugters.
 

buytbuyt

Well-Known Member
#25
There was an 'information lock-down' by the leaf-shinobi and their kitsune friends.

and I doubt the light kitsunes would tell their loses. maybe after some time?
 
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