Nasuverse Psyren + FSN Crossover

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#1
Okay, after some gentle prodding by a number of people and some tantalizing suggestions, I've decided to start a Psyren Crossover with Nasuverse and I need help.


Basic Idea

A Shinji-centric fanfic (with interludes looking into other characters) where upon several side-characters in Fuyuki are dragged into a hellish future where the arrival of TYPE- Ouroboros has begun terraforming the Earth. Gaia is dying while Alayashiki has the Counter Force empower a psychic capable of performing a Leyshift with others and pulling in all those willing from the past to resolve the scenario, subjecting them to a contract and bestowing upon them access to the development of psychic powers (read: engrave specialized circuits to realize supernatural phenomena) called—Drifters.

Drifters need to sift through the events of the future to unravel who it was that beckoned Type-Ouroboros in a bid for power (W.I.S.E) and find a way to kill it in both the past and the future.

Drifters
The drifters are people that were pulled into the future by the events of the story through Nemesis Q. The focus is on the Drifters native to Fuyuki, but people from all over the world have been pulled in. All drifters are bound by something akin to a Geas to Nemesis Q to prevent them from spreading the future knowledge they have. This is done because certain elements (W.I.S.E) would no doubt hasten the effect—this Geas can be broken by Rule Breaker used by Shirou.

Time Travel

Nemesis Q sends the souls of the drifters to the future while their real bodies stay in the present through a contract made when the cards are called. So technically it would be a form of really vivid remote viewing, or future sight ESP, with the soul’s manifestation in the future being something akin to a Servant’s Materialization. It happens in virtually a split-second from normal time, but they can spend days on the other side.

Since the  body reflects the soul, if the spiritual body of someone in the future that is Psyren is hurt, the damage will be transmitted to the body in the present explaining why someone can get killed or grow stronger there. Mechanics are similar to the Leyshift in Fate / Grand Order.

Future
The planet the Ouroboros comes from actually died, but instead of just giving up that planet launched it's terminal to space and sent it to Earth as a parasite. What the Ouroboros is meant to do is terraform the Earth into the same planet it came from, basically killing the planet and changing it for a new one (so in the future of Psyren, Gaia is not completely dead, but in the process of being taken over by the will of Ouroboros/the invading planet). The Taboo monsters are the result of it trying to harvest the living creatures on Earth to make it into servants/the new life of the planet that will be born.

World-building: At the same time, Dead Apostles have rallied to defend their food supply, various magical organizations that have weathered the intial advancement have congealed into a single entity to try and deal with it, but the magecraft foundation (Gaia) is damaged extensively—making magecraft something a dying art and some foundations completely eradicated.

Main Characters
 
Shinji
The perspective character of the story, Shinji becomes a drifter after overhearing rumors from the track girls (the rival one stating it’s no fun competing with her anymore) going around involving Ayako and seeing her withdrawn and unwilling to talk about it (after asking her brother in the archery club). Feeling some remorse after having Rider victimize her, he ends up getting his hands on one of the cards and calling the number to be pulled into Psyren.

After his first trip, he ignores Otoko’s advice to keep it secretive and tries to take to Shirou because this is his sort of thing (and he can’t stand the thought of being around Rin), but he nearly has a heart-attack (the effect of the Geas) in the process. When he wakes up in the Infirmary, Issei is looking over him and explains that he was warned that he can’t speak of it with anyone who doesn’t have a card.

Ayako
A veteran drifter (four trips) that has grown distant from her family due to her constantly being called into Psyren and not being able to discuss it due to the Geas, she still goes to the archery club because it allows her to get away from everything and is something she considers normal though she’s withdrawn.  Her brother is also a member of the Archery Club.

Issei
A veteran drifter who was involved before the plot of the story, since the first case of the Sudden Death Syndrome six months after the Holy Grail War. He acts as a sounding board between the Fuyuki group, gathering them together through teleportation before they leave to Psyren and then healing their bodies after they return alive.

Gai Gatou
A classmate of Shinji and fellow drifter at the same time, he got involved because he wanted a card to give to Kohane since he thought it would impress her, being a rumor monger and ended up getting involved. A cheerful idiot and optimist in Shinji’s eyes, when Kane gets drawn into Psyren, he vows to protect her. He later plays up a Gorilla theme.

Kane Himuro
A member of the track-team and their high-jumping ace, she’s a quiet girl who loves rumors and managed to track down a Psyren card somehow, becoming involved in the plot. Her abilities reflect art and healing, allowing her to create landscapes in painting and later Cure.
 
Otoko Hotaruzuka
Daughter of the owner of Copenhagen and a veteran drifter that completed her run through Psyren, she acts as a mentor to Ayako. She was the one who taught her how to create explosive burst as well.

Reikan Ryuudo
Issei’s brother and a veteran drifter who has completed his run through Psyren, he acts as a fighting mentor to the others and balances out his brother’s desires. He was one of the first drifters at the beginning. He is currently friends with Otoko, trying to get a date with Taiga, and acts as a mentor to Gai.

I still need to develop:

  • How to Kill the Ouroborous
  • Taboo
  • W.I.S.E - Fuyuki Division
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#2
Cool, let's start hammering on this one step by step and see what sort of solutions we can come up with.

How to kill Ouroboros
I think this one is the easiest one to handle and you could play it in different ways.
  1. Get Arc to kill it
    Yep this one is the easier one to justify, just wake up Archetype Earth and have her deal with the mess. Probably a bit boring, since you are basically introducing a new character into the story to handwave the problem away for you, but it's her job you know. Plus seeing more Tsukihime characters is always cool.
  2. Get the Black Barrel
    As per Tsukihime, the Church should still have the Black Barrel with them (Ciel took it with her in her route to try to kill Arc), so getting it to beat Ouroboros might not be impossible. This has the bonus of giving you the chance to do something like having your characters try to steal the Longinus from the Church in a "mission impossible" sort of thing.
  3. Use the Holy Grail
    But since you seem intent on keeping things focused only on the Fate side of things, I guess this is the real answer right? The Greater Grail still exists in UBW route, and since the fic focuses on Shinji finding redemption, you could have it end with Shinji convincing Zouken to help him save the world. So using the Greater Grail as a giant green lantern ring and Sakura as a control device, the Matou family somehow saves the world! Yay. It sounds a bit silly, but it would be nice to find a good use the thing for a change.
Taboo

If I remember right, the Taboo were basically creatures that had cores from the Ouroboros in them, right? Then just have them be the result of the Ouroboros trying to modify these creatures that already exist so they can survive in the new land it will create. Why waste good biomass when it can still be used, right? They would be the first signs of what the Ouroboros is really trying to do, the Prime Race that will inherit the new world.

W.I.S.E.

Do we really have to change them, plus it's not like they have to be in Fuyuki specifically for their plans to work. Have our heroes leave the city to search for these bad guys, and that way you have the chance to introduce other Drifters that live in other places.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#3
Azure said:
Cool, let's start hammering on this one step by step and see what sort of solutions we can come up with.

How to kill Ouroboros
I think this one is the easiest one to handle and you could play it in different ways.

  1. Get Arc to kill it
    Yep this one is the easier one to justify, just wake up Archetype Earth and have her deal with the mess. Probably a bit boring, since you are basically introducing a new character into the story to handwave the problem away for you, but it's her job you know. Plus seeing more Tsukihime characters is always cool.
  2. Get the Black Barrel
    As per Tsukihime, the Church should still have the Black Barrel with them (Ciel took it with her in her route to try to kill Arc), so getting it to beat Ouroboros might not be impossible. This has the bonus of giving you the chance to do something like having your characters try to steal the Longinus from the Church in a "mission impossible" sort of thing.
  3. Use the Holy Grail
    But since you seem intent on keeping things focused only on the Fate side of things, I guess this is the real answer right? The Greater Grail still exists in UBW route, and since the fic focuses on Shinji finding redemption, you could have it end with Shinji convincing Zouken to help him save the world. So using the Greater Grail as a giant green lantern ring and Sakura as a control device, the Matou family somehow saves the world! Yay. It sounds a bit silly, but it would be nice to find a good use the thing for a change.
Taboo

If I remember right, the Taboo were basically creatures that had cores from the Ouroboros in them, right? Then just have them be the result of the Ouroboros trying to modify these creatures that already exist so they can survive in the new land it will create. Why waste good biomass when it can still be used, right? They would be the first signs of what the Ouroboros is really trying to do, the Prime Race that will inherit the new world.


W.I.S.E.

Do we really have to change them, plus it's not like they have to be in Fuyuki specifically for their plans to work. Have our heroes leave the city to search for these bad guys, and that way you have the chance to introduce other Drifters that live in other places.
Ouroboros

  1. It is Arc's job, but it'd kind of defeat the purpose of having them grow as characters if we're just having them send a text message to her saying where Ouroboros is and to get to work. At least without the W.I.S.E. somehow keeping her chained in her castle or unaware. (Funny though).
  2. I thought she used a pile-driver, not the Black Barrel. I think that's under Atlas' jurisdiction, since Sion has the replica of it.
  3. Except that if this is post-grail, I still have to find out how to trigger the Greater Grail into activation without the Heaven's Feel Ritual. Cause, if this was the case, then I could just do the Holy Grail War version and have them wish the damn thing into non-existence... well, except for the evil god inside of it. That or have Gil use Ea on the thing.

Taboo
Okay, simple enough. Cores from parasite-TYPE makes workers of the simple beings, with heralds and more advance beings having their sense of self.

Wise
The Wise are an issue because I have to try and justify why a bunch of guys got together and decided to help the end of the world.... and why they managed to go through with it without Gaia and Arc killing them immediately. Now, I'm going with the idea that maybe Ouroboros sent fragments of itself out to certain individuals and that it tempted them with power like the Black Grail tried to with Kiritsugu (except he didn't go for it) and they work on crippling the forces that could opposite its arrival.

Remember, scope is an issue for me. Traveling the world sounds fine and dandy, but execution is a different story. It's a lot easier to keep the main focus on the group in a central area during the present time (while maintaining phone and internet contact with foreign psychiers who probably don't speak Japanese), whereas in the future the surviving organizations and forces could pull together something like Tenju's Root spanning the globe and I can try to write alien landscapes.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#4
Leidolf said:
Ouroboros



  1. It is Arc's job, but it'd kind of defeat the purpose of having them grow as characters if we're just having them send a text message to her saying where Ouroboros is and to get to work. At least without the W.I.S.E. somehow keeping her chained in her castle or unaware. (Funny though).
  2. I thought she used a pile-driver, not the Black Barrel. I think that's under Atlas' jurisdiction, since Sion has the replica of it.
  3. Except that if this is post-grail, I still have to find out how to trigger the Greater Grail into activation without the Heaven's Feel Ritual. Cause, if this was the case, then I could just do the Holy Grail War version and have them wish the damn thing into non-existence... well, except for the evil god inside of it. That or have Gil use Ea on the thing.
1. Well you could write it as having Arc there gives them a chance to deal with the WISE while she deals with Ouroboros. The idea of just going to get her out of her castle is something you probably could make work if you tried.
2. Ciel has Nanako (the Piledriver) as her standard arm, but she borrowed the Black Barrel to kill Arc in her route (it was a special exception). So it's very probable she borrowed it from Atlas (the Church and Atlas get along really well). But the point is that this option has the endgame as stealing the gun from whoever has it and save the world with it.
3. Just justify it by saying something like Zouken is using the left-over charge from the last war to use the Grail as a small wish-granting device. No need to start the war again since it has juice from the last war that wasn't properly completed. Then Zouken would turn the Grail into a super laser and shoot the Ouroboros out of the sky with the help of the Drifters. The point they don't need a full grail to do this, just enough power to replicate what Old Man Jewels did to push back the moon.


Leidolf said:
Wise
The Wise are an issue because I have to try and justify why a bunch of guys got together and decided to help the end of the world.... and why they managed to go through with it without Gaia and Arc killing them immediately. Now, I'm going with the idea that maybe Ouroboros sent fragments of itself out to certain individuals and that it tempted them with power like the Black Grail tried to with Kiritsugu (except he didn't go for it) and they work on crippling the forces that could opposite its arrival.

Remember, scope is an issue for me. Traveling the world sounds fine and dandy, but execution is a different story. It's a lot easier to keep the main focus on the group in a central area during the present time (while maintaining phone and internet contact with foreign psychiers who probably don't speak Japanese), whereas in the future the surviving organizations and forces could pull together something like Tenju's Root spanning the globe and I can try to write alien landscapes.
The Counter Force would be acting against the WISE, remember, that's why it's sending Shinji and Co on their quest. Plus the World would save their biggest things for when Ouroboros arrives, and by then it might be too late to stop the invading Aristotles. Keeping the WISE as people the Ouroboros tempted with works, specially if you go with the idea that the core members were children that were experimented on by the government.

I think that having WISE be outside Fuyuki makes sense, because if they were there they would have gotten involved in the Grail War one way or another, and they would totally make sure to kill Zouken and Rin to prevent anyone from interfering in their plans. It's easier to justify things by having the group live in someplace other than Fuyuki, and then them coming to the city when they start catching hints that Shinji and his friends might be onto them.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#5
End-Game

  1. I like the thought of Arc killing it, but she needs to be out of the game until the very end. I think the best solution is that the W.I.S.E have isolated her castle while she's asleep (post-Tsukihime ending) to prevent Gaia from pushing her into service as Archtype-Earth through something like Trick Room.
  2. Plan B for getting rid of Ouroborous. Atlas and the Church would probably be more than willing to get to work in dealing with it, but someone has to be running interference here. I'm thinking that at least one or two key agents here are part of W.I.S.E and cripple them when the time comes, so that they can't act in time. Thus identifying them in the future and then offing them in the past through coordinated strikes changes some parts of the future, like the bridging time-line.
  3. Honestly, I kinda want to kill Zouken either way, so I think we'll leave that one out.
The biggest issue with 1 & 2 will be the Geas, but that's intentional. Breaking that will allow them to commune with the Moonlit world agents after they've dealt with the W.I.S.E infiltrators, so that's End-Game too. Otherwise, I'd have to justify why Emiya isn't Caldabolging them to death.

Wise:
As mentioned above, I need to have the fledgling W.I.S.E in the present infiltrating / crippling key organizations. In the future, they'll be handling the management of the different towers over the world that are key components of the terraforming, so the agent in Japan will be the most critical in kicking off the plot since Japan has little in way of interference from the different organizations like the MA and Church. Once they are dealt with, I can have it so that key members of the story like Issei survive in that Future and be able to Teleport the group elsewhere in the future while making contact with someone who would have connections to the organizations in the present.

I think it'd be better if they were members or victims of different organizations rather than the government. Magus do that kind of stuff all the time. Maybe someone like Sion who was ostracized in Atlas and wanted revenge, or someone like Waver, who was a new generation and didn't achieve the same respect he so desperately desired. Tempted with the power, they were more liable to agree to herald the new world. The agent in Japan can be one of the Demon Hunting families who learns that someone is inquiring into them via Private Investigator (who he subsequently found, interrogated, and killed) and it leads to them taking him down in the present, but draws the eyes of the others.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#6
The Grigori were part of a government research group, true, but most Nasuverse Psychic Powers comes from demihuman heritage, and Japan has a strong tradition of half-demon bloodlines... basically, why not just keep the whole arc of the Grigori, but play up the connection this rogue government research program has with the traditional half-blood families? The more things you change, the more effort you're going to have to spend writing it & extrapolating from it.

So in that case the WISE, that is, Miroku and Friends, are humans that decided to throw in with the Alien Invader because they just straight-up don't mind betraying "the world", their loyalty as humans or whatever is burned out.

I would compare the Dead Apostle Ancestors, who are humans modified using Type Moon as a template, with the WISE, who are humans modified using TYPE Ouroborous as a template. The reason why sunlight is deadly is because it's the Common Sense of the Solar System corroding something that's been contaminated with an outside presence.

That being said, if you're worried about Scope Creep, dragging the DAA into things as cooperative players is probably a mistake; I would advise that they're instead using this disaster to move forward Dark Sixes' plan to revive Crimson Moon or whatever, so the conflict over that escalated into their own civil war. That keeps them out of the story relatively and explains why the WISE didn't have to defeat All The Vampires to seize control of territory.

...If it's end game, who wins in a fight, Ouroborous or ORT?
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#7
1.) Mostly because I wasn't all that much a fan of that arc and I really like the concept with the infiltration I was going with. Yours does remind me of what happened in Battle Moon wars with Jin'i... only evil?

2.) Basically, yeah.

3.) That makes sense, but remember that the only characters aware of the Moonlit world initially is Shinji because of the Geas and Nemesis Q actively avoiding anyone who would possibly give the secret away due to affiliation or having magic circuits already active (hence why Shirou and Rin didn't get involved). I know he's probably combed through his grandfather's archives (manga showed that), so I guess we can have him think in terms of how that would work if we need to bring it up to the audience.

4.) Honestly, I wasn't even going to bring the DAA up since Shinji is the viewpoint character for the most part. But I do love having an excuse ready.

5.) I'm going with Ouroborous because it has active agents.... actually, if Atlas and the Church have Black Barrel, why haven't they used it on ORT? Nip that problem in the bud.

Moving on:

Psychic Powers


Psychic powers of the Drifters are classified in Nasuverse-terms as them having specialized circuits to realize supernatural-powers by the Counter Force in exchange for accepting the contract. The circuits essentially give them access to the same set of powers, only their mindsets, origins, and natural inclinations shift how it develops—whether as Burst, Trance, Rise, or Nova.

The powers require mana to work, and is thus enhanced when in the future due to Gaia being overwritten and dying releasing an enormous amount of mana. Because they are realizing mysteries without spells or foundations, the strain of the powers place on them is fairly greater until they implement “programs”.

Character: Shinji Matou

The perspective character of the story, Shinji becomes a drifter after overhearing rumors from the track girls (the rival one stating it’s no fun competing with her anymore) going around involving Ayako and seeing her withdrawn and unwilling to talk about it (after asking her brother in the archery club). Feeling some remorse after having Rider victimize her, he ends up getting his hands on one of the cards and calling the number to be pulled into Psyren after Ayako goes missing one morning.

Character Development:

Shinji starts out in an odd place since the end of UBW. He’s still haunted form nightmares of being the grail’s core for a time and hates that the thought of owing the others, but he can’t bring himself to get along with any of them because he still hates Rin, is envious of Shirou, and feels conflicting emotions about Ayako after victimizing her with Rider, and isn’t sure how to treat Sakura besides staying away from her. So when he overhears that she has a Psyren Card, he wonders if it has something to do with magecraft and figures that if Rin and Shirou hadn’t noticed he could bring it to them and use that to settle the score.

Getting involved in Psyren and becoming a Psychicer, he ultimately sees it as an ironic hell that the one time he no longer desires power he has it. But he keeps his complaints to the inside of his head because he doesn’t want Ayako to think its her fault for him getting involved after he spills he came in because she looked like she needed the help. He slowly starts getting along better with Gai and the others and finds true companionship like he had with Shirou (as well as a romantic relationship with Ayako), but becomes afraid that his past actions (trying to kill them all with Rider, raping Sakura) will come to light and ruin that. Atonement is a heavy price and long road that starts at saving the future.

Shinji’s PSI borrows from Psyren's Kabuto, Ageha, and Inui. Because of his contact as the grail’s core, his origin has been shifted towards curses and his elemental alignment Hollow, similar to Dark Sakura.

Abilities:

  • Rise (Sense Type): His avoidance has led to his sense rising to the point where he can sense others greatly, allowing him to avoid danger by manipulating shadows.
  • Trance (Menace Vision) - He has visions, a form of precognition, allowing him to perceive the danger he or others are in and then avoid it. He later comprehends it enough to manipulate it, able to turn danger back on itself.
  • Burst (Shadow Manipulation): Similar to Sakura in her Dark state and the technique he used with the Book of False Attendant, he uses his Burst to solidify shadows and attack by shaping it. The shadows can also consume PSI and spiritual entities.
  • (Hollow Rider): He develops a form of Burst that essentially crafts a shadow version of Rider to act in his stead, with her strength and movements from his memories.
  • Nova (Bleeding Shadow): Upon gaining access to Nova, he becomes able to clad himself in shadows and take on a form similar to that of his counterpart in Fate/Kalider 3rei, along with similar abilities.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#8
Isn't that giving too many skills to Shinji? He has Menace Vision, a shadows to command, a fake Rider and then the Assassin form. I think that you probably should focus on just one thing, so you can give Shinji's powers a theme that unifies them a bit more.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#9
You're right. Meance is too OP. In truth, it's a leftover from when I was planning on having this set during the HGW and I like the male-dark Sakura theme. I'll give him Basic Trance (basic telepathy). But is strong point is Burst. He's going to be able to manipulate shadows with the Hollow attribute, akin to Melchsee's door for Ageha but also some of that stuff Sakura pulled while connected to Angra Mayu (no shadow teleport, it would render Issei useless). It ties into his growth over the course of the story. He'll start out a unskilled (attacking at a distance with shadow spikes and relying on others, focused on creating an opening), then his own power (programming the shadows and Rider), and then himself (this is his Nova form).

Also, I'm jotting all of this down as back-up. Once I organize it, I'm going to have it on a Google Drive doc.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#10
Yeah, generally a ESPer was one of the three types Rise, Trance, and Burst.

Sakura's Shadow Stuff was because of her native Rare Element -- Imaginary Numbers -- that didn't have anything to do with Matou magecraft, so there's no reason that Shinji would have something similar. Matou magecraft is basically Water Elemental, and their inborn Sorcery Trait is Consumption. Because of that, curses are a terrible idea; Matou magecraft tends to return to the caster. If anything, maybe a pure Trance type like Usui and his thought-eating spiders.

Well, having the team split into different specialties where they each have something to contribute but nobody can act alone -- that fits with Shinji learning to honestly rely on others, and become someone that can be relied on.

Leidolf said:
Because of his contact as the grail’s core, his origin has been shifted towards curses and his elemental alignment Hollow, similar to Dark Sakura.
Changing someone's Origin is equivalent to saying they died, and were then reborn. That's megassa-serious business.

And I think messing around with Elements is too complicated.

Pick an appropriate ESPer power (and prioritize something that matches Shinji's role in the story and backfill the justification from there), and then maybe think about hybridizing it with Matou Stuff down the road. Symbolically that represents him coming to terms with who he was; a synthesis of Matou Stuff and Psychic Stuff means accepting his past without letting it dominate his destiny, so keep that in reserve as part of his character development.

According to Shirou's epilogue narration, even if it was just an aside, Shinji had made up with him and was genuinely trying to get along better with Sakura.

In one of the interludes in UBW, pretty much the first thing Shinji did after Kotomine loaned him Gilgamesh was, take the Golden Archer down into the Matou Basement, and bounce that guy off Zouken.

So, if you want to do a redemption, then maybe keep that in your pocket, that Shinji got drunk on power after exterminating the Secret Bad Guy. If so, he legitimately saved Sakura, which he might feel guilty about because really he had done it for his own sake?

Fundamentally I feel like you'd be better served coming up with a strong, clear arc for these characters, and then letting that decide what character class they have in their adventuring party.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#11
I just like the idea that being the grail core completely messed with his head since he's still having nightmare and that bleeds into his PSI, so he'd be Burst. Only when he comes to terms with it and his past he be able to meld with it in the form of Nova.

Wait, Zouken's already dead? I remember an interlude where he went into the catacombs and mused that his mother was worm-feed, but not that. But, if that's the case, that's why Sakura could be genuinely happy with him, but he feels her gratitiude is misplaced because he did it for himself and so it doesn't make up for all the shit he's given her.

And I think the epilogue was a full year from HGW, this like 8-9 months afterwards, so I want to build up to that.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#12
I think if you want to keep the idea of being the grail afecting Shinji, maybe play at the psychological angle. Being the core means that Shinji was connected to Avenger for a moment, and that left an imprint in the boy. That trauma would influence Shinji's powers when he starts developing his PSI. I kind of like the idea of Shinji being mainly a Trace-type Esper, specially since it would play to Shinji's more social personality. Well here is a suggestion for a power based on the trauma Shinji had as the grail.

  • Nightmare Jack (Trace): A trace-type Psi that takes the form of a black bow made of shadows, it shoots arrows that allow Shinji to jack opponents from afar to give them nightmares. Due to his trauma he can only send nightmares based on all the Evils in the World he saw during as the grail core, but due to this the nightmares are very effective against all human opponents and those descendant from humans (so no Aizen-like illusion plays for our hero). Eventually might develop to allow Shinji to absorb the nightmares of others instead of sending them (to heal/Rise?) and maybe even become a nightmare himself (Nova).

So basically Shinji is one of what do they call those dream-monsters... the tapirs? Yeah, one of those.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#13
Hmm... I guess the signs do point at him being heavily Trance-based rather than Burst. No point in trying shoe him into the role of the main powerhouse when he doesn't fit the mold. And it makes more sense given his social nature and mannerisms. But he should at least have a use of Rise, if only so that his Sense can perceive his enemies.


So,

Trance: Monster - Has enormous potential with mental warfare.
- Mind Jack (to look at memories - a basic skill for Trance Users)
- Nightmare Jack (to pour in nightmares by crystallizing his Trance waves and firing it - devastating considering where he's been)
- Overwrite (to mess with memories/cover up things - because someone has to do clean up)
- Broadcast (Connect multiple minds - Most important skill in combat synchronization because he can't do jack against Taboo who aren't human anymore)

Nova: Fear Itself - He combines the principles of Mind Jack (read opponents fear), Broadcast (connect to multiple people), and Nightmare Jack (crystalizing their fears), to embody what his opponent's worst nightmare itself.

Burst: Inept - He struggled with basic Telekinesis.

Rise: (Selective Proficiency) - No skill in Strength Rise, but proficient in Sense to go with aiming and detecting targets to use Trance on.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#14
Yeah, have him focus on Trace, with some basic Rise to support his combat abilities and give him maybe sense. I would suggest giving Shinji boosted eye-sight but that is something Shirou already has. An interesting spin to make Shinji's Rise a but more unique would be to have him maybe absorb nightmares from his targets, and use them to boost himself via Rise more than normal. So I guess it might be absorbing out the negative stuff from others to make himself (and them) better?

I like the idea of having the visual cue for Shinji's powers be him imagining shooting his powers from a bow made of shadows, that way you can keep the shadow element that you wanted in your original idea.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#15
The thing is though... I'm not sure how absorbing nightmares or horrible memories would translate over into a Rise trait. The closest thing I can imagine would be to take away all fear and doubt in the midst of combat, and that's more like a filtering program as a part of Broadcast. I'm guessing he could gather all the "junk from the filter" and dump it into a version of Nightmare Jack, but unless he wants to experience them himself while putting it into them, he'd have to develop a program to micromanage that. And then, the only advantage i can think of over using All the Evils of the World is that it might work on Taboo (think what happened when Alice's Pigs bit into the smiley men).

Shinji can be the first to utilize programs due to using the Matou Library’s resources to work out how to utilize Nightmare Jack with needing to experience those memories himself, and then later on to refine Broadcast.


PSI Overview:
  • Rise - Proficient (Sense): His skill in Strength-based Rise is nearly nonexistent, but his Sense-based Rise is proficient in allowing him to detect others. He eventually develops a program of detecting all life-signs around him.
  • Trance - Monster: Shinji’s personality and skill set is nearly exclusively limited to Trance, specifically the workings of variations of Mindjack. His visualization has him firing a roped arrow to the target (White for Mind Jack, Black for Nightmare Jack).
  • Burst - Inept: Shinji struggles with even basic telekinesis.
  • Nova: Shinji’s Nova combines specifically his Rise and Trance with minimal Burst.
PSI Abilities:
  • Mind Jack (Trance): A basic skill of Telepathy, allows for one to read/share memories. Not blocked by physical objects.
  • Broadcast (Trance): A mass application of Mind Jack, used to link allies in battle and synchronize their thoughts.
  • Tapir Net (Trance): Broadcast with a “Filter” program in place, like a spider web catching doubts and hesitations.
  • Overwrite (Trance): A skill that uses Mind Jack to read memories and then dump a version of Shinji’s own, allowing him to give them a sense of Déjà vu while covering up other memories.
  • Nightmare Jack (Trance): Shinji dumps memories (nightmares) into the enemy. Having glimpsed all the Evils in the World makes this anti-human technique. Not blocked by physical objects.
  • Nightmare Jack: Demon’s Arrow (Trance): A high-end application of Nightmare Jack, where he crystallizes Trance Psi Waves containing all the Evils in the World to bypass linking to the mind. Blocked by physical objects.
  • Nightmare Jack: Tapir Arrow (Trance): A high-end application of Nightmare Jack and Tapir’s Net, where he crystallizes Trance Psi Waves containing everything filtered out of Broadcast and then dumps it into Taboo. The influx of human emotions is a foreign sensation that paralyzes them.
  • Sense (Rise): Shinji can sense opponents, first by raising his five senses to gain hyperawareness, and then by life-signs.
  • Token Telekinesis (Burst): Shinji has inept Telekinesis, to the extent that even picking up a set of keys would strain his mind.
  • Fear Itself (Nova): Shinji He combines the principles of Mind Jack (read opponents fear), Broadcast (connect to multiple people), and Nightmare Jack (crystallizing their fears), to create what his opponents fear and send them out after them. Upon connecting, the enemy is overwhelmed by their worse fear in a never-ending nightmare.
Key Facts about Shinji
  • Shinji had Gilgamesh kill Zouken, leading to Sakura feeling grateful. He feels her gratitude is misplaced because he did it for himself and so it doesn't make up for all the shit he's given her.
  • Shinji is haunted by nightmares due to the brief connection he had with Avenger as the grail core, leading him to witness all the Evils in the World. Sleeping pills help.
  • Shinji has some sadistic tendencies, such as taking joy in bringing prideful enemies to their knees. Incidentally, he’s fondest of Ayako because she didn’t break after Rider drained her.
  • Shinji is the first to utilize programs due to using the Matou Library’s resources to work out how to utilize Nightmare Jack with needing to experience those memories himself.
  • Shinji fears his allies (especially Ayako) learning of his actions during and before the Holy Grail War with Rider and Sakura after getting close to them.
  • Shinji feels Gai Gatou is an honest idiot like Shirou (only dumber) and works best with him.
  • Shinji still hates Rin Tohsaka on principle, but no longer tries hitting on her.
  • Shinji and Issei don’t get along, seeing as the former is his polar opposite in terms of personality.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#16
Actually living the nightmares himself might allow Shinji to read someone else's mind, and him putting to practice the theories from the Matou magecraft to better handle his PSI is actually a good idea. I think you could justify the idea of turning Nightmares into a Rise power by saying it's a mental thing for Shinji or by saying he is stealing power/something from the targets alongside the nightmares, but I guess that might be pushing it too far and probably should be dropped. I guess the idea was to give the Nightmares Jack a way to physically affect the enemies sometimes in the future.

One thing I see is that Nightmare Jack probably wouldn't work that well on the more animal-like Taboo, but start working more and more as the Taboos become more human and be really effective against the WISE. So I guess it's a power that will really shine more in the end game, huh? I guess early on Shinji will probably use his Trace to read his enemies, and then out predict them while finishing them with some basic Rise.

Anyhow, think we have a good basis for how Shinji's powers will work as a Trace-user, you probably should now move to the other party members so we can try to round the team up.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#17
Yeah. Gai is going to be the Close-ranged Meat Shield of the group, something a combination of Kyle and Hiryu (only with Gorilla instead of dragons), inept at Trance. Ayako is the Long-range balance of the group, an All-Around, specializing in an explosive Burst she can layer onto her weapon to give it a punch (she uses a sledgehammer) or fire from a Burst created Crossbow.

Gai Gatou
A classmate of Shinji and fellow drifter at the same time, he got involved because he wanted a card to give to Kane since he thought it would impress her. He ended up getting sent along with Shinji during their first trip.

Gai borrows from Psyren’s Hiryu.

PSI Overview:
  • Rise - Monster (Strength): His skill in Strength-based Rise is his strongest feature, but his Sense-based Rise is nonexistent, meaning he relies on Shinji to help deal with difficult enemies.
  • Trance - Inept: He struggles with maintaining a connection for basic telepathy.
  • Burst – Average: He’s competent at basics, but primarily uses his Burst to shape the energy around him like armor so he doesn’t break his fist while hitting them.
PSI Abilities:
  • Token Telepathy (Trance): He’s not good at even the basics of Trance, meaning that the connection is filled with static and breaks easily.
  • Bulk Up (Rise): Gai’s rise is geared towards raising his strength, endurance, and speed, allowing him to hit hard and fast. But his senses aren’t enhanced to compensate.
  • Mind Hand (Burst): Basic telekinesis that creates a hand.
  • Fist of Kong (Burst): He shapes his Burst in the shape of a Gorilla’s fist.
  • Arms of Kong (Burst): He shapes his Burst in the shape of a Gorilla’s arms
  • Body of Kong (Burst): He shapes his Burst in the shape of a Gorilla’s body, using his strengthened body to move it.
Key Facts about Gai
  • Gai is a student in 3-C.
  • Gai likes Kane for her meek and soft-spoken nature, but says she shines when talking about art.
  • Gai prefers not to compete with women, hence why he doesn’t have an attraction to most of the girls in the school (Ayako and Rin especially).
  • Gai prefers the simplest solution, but can be surprisingly insightful without understand the situation.
  • Gai recognizes Shinji as being smart but whimpy and works best with him.
  • Gai is the first one to ask the obvious question about why none of the active drifters are in the future.
 
Ayako

A Drifter that has grown distant from her family and old lifestyle due to her constantly being called into Psyren and not being able to discuss it. The events of Psyren have left a heavy toll on her mind since she had to take her last three trips alone, but with Shinji and Gai helping she slowly regains the spark she once had. Her veteran status makes her the de facto leader for the active drifters.

Ayako borrows from Seven Deadly Sins Guila and To Aru Majutsu’s Ouma.

PSI Overview:
  • Rise – Average (Balanced): Ayako is balanced in both Strength and Sense, but not to the extent of Gai in the former and Shinji in the latter. This is due to her having to survive on her own.
  • Trance - Average: She has basic skills in Trance.
  • Burst – Proficient: Ayako has a strong foundation in Burst, specifically explosives.
PSI Abilities:
  • Mind Jack (Trance): A basic skill of Telepathy, allows for one to read/share memories. Not blocked by physical objects.
  • Peak (Rise): Ayako raises her Strength and Sense to their limits, allowing her to fight at peak condition with her martial art skills honed over time.
  • Telekinesis (Burst): Ayako can use basic telekinesis to move objects.
  • Blast Plate (Burst): Ayako covers an object with a shell of burst energy that explodes outwards on impact.
  • Hamayumi Crossbow (Burst): Ayako is proficient in creating a wrist-mounted crossbow, named after the sacred bow said to have slain an evil demon in the Imperial Palace. She prefers the wrist variation because she needs her hands free in case an enemy gets too close.
  • Hama-ya (Burst): A crossbow bolt made of explosive Burst energy, capable of blowing apart simple scavenger Taboo and objects that aren’t reinforced.
  • Sacred Rain (Burst): A scatter shot of ten explosive Burst bolts for widespread shots.
  • Hama-ya: Eclipse (Burst):  A concentration and charge of all of her Burst energy into a single bolt, the explosive power is tremendous.
Key Facts about Ayako
  • Ayako is a student in 3-A.
  • Ayako has been going to Psyren for two months (4 trips), making her the veteran of the active group.
  • Ayako has an energetic, competitive, and straightforward attitude before Psyren. Afterwards she's tired and on-edge, standoffish and distant, neither competitive drive nor effort towards keeping her club in check, arriving later than when the club usually starts practice at 7 AM in the morning and sleeping in.
  • Ayako won that bet with Rin Tohsaka to obey the winner for a day after she weaseled out she and Shirou were a thing.
  • Ayako’s first trip into Psyren was done with Issei.
Kane Himuro
A member of the track-team and their high-jumping ace, she’s a quiet girl who loves rumors and managed to track down a Psyren card, becoming involved in the plot during their second trip to Psyren. She sustains injuries during this point, necessitating Cure from Issei in the present, but it leaves her traumatized. During the next trip, she develops the ability to use Cure in order to save Ayako’s life while Shinji, Sion, and Gai deal with the W.I.S.E. She acts as the brains of the group when it comes to figuring out the events of the world and timeline.

Kane Himuro borrows from Van .

PSI Overview:

  • Rise – Proficient (Sense/Healing): Kane focuses exclusively on Sense and Healing in order to properly heal her allies.
  • Trance - Average: She has basic skills in Trance, though she later becomes capable of tracking PSI.
  • Burst – Average: Kane develops her Burst to cater to her Cure.
  • Hybrid – Proficient: Kane focuses on refining her Cure primarily, but later manages to combine her Trance and Burst to create an entity that tracks PSI down.
PSI Abilities:
  • Mind Jack (Trance): A basic skill of Telepathy, allows for one to read/share memories. Not blocked by physical objects.
  • Cure (Hybrid – Healing/Sense/Burst): Upon experiencing Cure from Issei, desperate to save Ayako’s life, and some help from Sion, she manages a rudimentary Cure that she later refines.
  • Jewel Butterfly (Hybrid – Trance/Burst): She becomes able to create a butterfly that can track down PSI signatures.
Key Facts about Kane
  • Kane is a student in 3-A.
  • Kane enjoys art, especially paintings.
  • Kane happens to be a rumormonger despite being normally quiet and reserved.
  • Kane acts as the brains of the group, being able to quickly ascertain key facts and come up with conclusions.
  • Kane is the best friend of Ayako’s brother.




Speaking of PSI, let's makes sure its properly defined:

Psychic Powers
Psychic powers of the Drifters are classified in Nasuverse-terms as them having specialized circuits to realize supernatural-powers by the Counter Force in exchange for accepting the contract. The circuits essentially give them access to the same set of powers, only their mindsets, origins, and natural inclinations shift how it develops—whether as Burst, Trance, Rise, or Nova. (Basically, Alaya has given them a blank check as long as they get rid of the world-ending problem).

The powers utilize mana to work and enhanced when in the future, due to Gaia being overwritten and dying, thus releasing an enormous amount of mana that is trapped by the substance emitted by the towers to block the sunlight. Because they are realizing mysteries without spells or foundations, the strain of the powers place on them is fairly greater until they implement “programs”.

PSI Types:
Rise: Using PSI to enhance one's body, divided into enhancing five senses (Sense), physical capabilities (Strength), healing (Cure). Think Reinforcement.
Trance: Use PSI to tamper with the mind, usually through direct interference with the mind. High-end skills can crystallize it act similar to Burst and overwhelm with Trance waves, but it has minimal physical presence. Think Mental Interference.
Burst: Using PSI to manifest something in the outside world, whether elemental or a projection of some kind. Has a strong physical presence and can incorporate various attributes. Think Physical Interference.
Hybrid: Some PSI can combine two different aspects into one, such as Cure (Healing and Burst) or Visions (Trance and Sense). Think actual precognition.
Zone: PSI that control a location or territory, allowing one to act in some manner that others cannot. Think Depletion Garden.
Nova: Combining the three forms of PSI into one, each is unique.

PSI Ranking Level:
Nonexistent: Absolutely no skill in the field whatsoever.
Inept: Can barely do the basic of the basics.
Average: Has an understanding of the basics and can use them with little-to-no difficulty.
Proficient: Above average skill in the area.
Monster: One of the best in the field.
Almighty: Best of the best.

And a future characters I'm thinking of adding:


Sion Eltnam Atlasia

A survivor of the Atlas purge due to her vampiric nature and proximity to Japan when the “Promised Tears” event occurred, Sion makes herself known to the Drifters during the third trip to Psyen (saving them from their first W.I.S.E encounter) and the subsequent trips afterwards. She acts as Shinji’s mentor, using her Etherlite talents and expertise to increase his proficiency with Trance. Unlike the rest of their counterparts, Future Scion will constantly read Shinji’s mind and thus become aware of the circumstances—placing her faith in them to resolve the issue.

She teaches Shinji how to isolate his thoughts akin to her Memory Partition, allowing for him to use Broadcast without his own thoughts interfering (essentially he has a partition for private thoughts and one for broadcast, which will later become one for containing the Nightmare to act as fuel for Nightmare Jack) as well as releasing his body’s natural limiter to allow him to move with enhanced speed and strength for the duration of their fight against the W.I.S.E agent (Issei had to heal him after they return to the past). Before they leave to the past, Sion dumps all the information she has on the events of what happened to the world into his mind, allowing Shinji to brief them (and the audience) in the future.

Sion's role places her as the one responsible for explaining to the group (and audience) why the Moonlit world isn't working against the W.I.S.E, revealing that Atlas had been infiltrated to remove the weapons that potentially posed a threat to Ouroborous, and allows Shinji to come out about what he knows about Mage Society and why they can't speak to anyone who may be affiliated with them in the past (Rin and Shirou join the MA in the future so they're out). Her Barrel Replica is one of the few surviving conceptual weapons that can severely harm Taboo by infecting them with the concept of a limited lifespan, something that the cores explicitly deny, thus allowing her to kill them in a single shot. The W.I.S.E, who are still human enough to survive, are merely put off by it and thus she was hunted down in the third time line.

Facts about Sion
• Sion finds the future horrible, but the lack of sunlight has helped her condition.
• Sion believes Shinji to be an excellent pupil that would fit in at Atlas, once his sadistic tendencies are handled.
• Sion still has a crush on Shiki. Shinji thinks she can do better (namely him).
• Sion has Ries’ data occupying two of her partitions.


Akira Seo (Tsukihime)
A precog who has foreseen the danger of the future and the Psyren Drifters, she cannot control her visions but can interact with the present cast because she is not affiliated with the organizations W.I.S.E had infiltrated. Her meeting with them in the past places her in the future, where working in conjunction with Sion and Akiha (both of whom use etherlite to manipulate Tonami Kugamine into expending his family fortune in order to fund said project), they create a version of Tenjuu’s root as a safe haven for psychics of the future beneath the manor.



Kishima Kouma (Grana)
A demon-hybrid agent bought under W.I.S.E control, he’s among the strongest of the strong and is responsible for the deaths of the Japanese veteran drifters in multiple timelines. He is personally recruited by Miroku (by which I mean he gets a Sephiroth seed planted into his eye), but killed in the timelines after Akira has been contacted due to the concerted efforts of Shiki, Akiha, Ciel, and Sion, an act that costs Shiki his life every single time.

It's like these series were made to go together.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#18
I think that saying the counter force is the cause of PSI in the future might be a bit too much, just leave it at PSI being a result of their psychic abilities awakening due to being exposed to Psyren. I feel keeping that answer simple might benefit you more in the future and avoid having to add complex explanations to things.


About powers:

Ayako: Since you mention her having a full bow form in her section, maybe add it as a finisher? Something like having the full bow be even more powerful than the other explosive arrow tricks?

Gai: Couldn't you just sum up his powers as him eventually making an armor made of PSI in the shape of a Kong?

Kane: Just healing is boring, specially since the other thing she can do is a search trick. Maybe add something else to make her stand out a bit more.

To be honest, making this mainly about side characters might make it hard to sell the story, I barely remember who these guys are, and I doubt most readers will remember.

Now to the other stuff.

Sion as the Mentor

I like the idea, still that big thing that jumps to me is that her bits implies that she is a full vampire in the future, which implies that materializing Roastbeef might be possible . Still using her Black Barrel Replica as the main weapon against the WISE is actually a good idea, and in general I like the use of the Etherlite to bypass the restrictions of Nemesis Q. I guess this means that Sion and Akiha will be the one to recruit Shirou and Rin in the present eventually to fight the wise and bypassing the things Nemesis Q do.

Akiha and Co as the one making the Tengu's Root.
I also like this, not only is it a simple way to make the world feel a bit bigger, but it allows to make a new group of survivors that is not part of the other factions that were infiltrated by the WISE. I do feel bad for Akira being trapped in the future as Akiha's underling, but that's life. I guess the Tohno family might be one of the few groups in Japan to really be able to help make a shelter like this.

Kouma as a bag guy.
Surprisingly the idea is really perfect, Mr. Chaos Dunk just oozes with the things necessary for a good shounen manga villain, and mind controlling him works to make him a villain. Sure getting him to join the bad guys properly would be better, but Kouma is not the type to really care about what the WISE might be able to offer to him.  Still, the point that Sion's party always loses someone fighting him to prepare things for the future is a good one, specially since it builds to Kouma as a villain, and allows you to have a proper victory over him when you get Shirou and Rin to join Sion's party down the line. I bet fans would love to read something like Shirou and Shiki vs Kouma.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#19
Ayako: Yes. That's excellent. Bow finisher.
Gai: Basically, he's raw strength. He puts his body on the line so that he can protect the others and punch the enemy to death, shattering cores and the like. He'll be the one to kill the first W.I.S.E after Shinji cripples him with Nightmare Jack.
Kane: Originally, she was going to be able to bring her paintings to life like that W.I.S.E girl who was the Creator or do Orobo's trick with absorbing Taboo cores, but the former left me thinking she might be too OP and the latter would have made it harder keep her alive since when she Leyshifts back to her body, the lack of cores in the present means her spiritual body is literally missing what serves as her organs.

The side characters are the perfect ones. They're near-blank slates for me to mold and shape with my hands, while the main characters (Shiki, Rin, Arcuied, Shirou) are end-game allies during the final assault on W.I.S.E. By taking what we have and shaping them into people that we wish were in the game, we have ascended the standards of fanfic writers and have become GODS! BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!

.... on a serious note, I really can't help it. I'm drawn to side-characters in my story because I see so much untapped potential within them. You can change the core narrative without changing the main characters.

Sion: It was just a stray thought that came up after we defined Shinji's power and I took a look at the cast list of Type-Moon characters on the wikia. She is perfect for the role. It's like she was made for this, not even including Dust of Osiris. I wasn't going to have her be full vampire because of the feeding and lack of humans (plus her struggle to remain human would be excellent). She'll eventually, at the end-game, be the one who pulls Shiki, Rin, Ciel, and Shirou into the fold. Shiki and Ciel will go through with Tsukihime's manga end (they track down the castle that Arc is sleeping in that's been isolated by a member of the W.I.S.E using a variation of Trick Room), while Shirou will Rule Breaker them to free them from the contract with Nemesis Q (the bit about not talking to members of MA, Atlas, and Church) and Rin will take the information to Waver and they root out the W.I.S.E in the MA in the past. Then they take on Kouma with the Fuyuki Drifters (if they don't want to kill him, they just need to take him down long enough for someone to get rid of the Seed being used as a conduit for Miroku's Trance).

Akiha and Co:
I came across Seo on the Tv tropes pages, saw she was a pre-cog in the present and friend of Akiha, who is rich but can get her hands on a richer person. Together they meet the same criteria as the woman who offered a crap-ton of money on unlocking the secret of Psyren. Since I can't/won't do that here (again, that sends up red flags to people looking out and just gets a bunch of red shirts killed), this way the plot remains intact and they can serve as Japan's primary resistance in the future (except Mr. One Stab, One Kill, he has to die for their to be a challenge in the future, with Akiha's end-goal being  future he makes it). Plus, Akiha and Seo are both technically Psychics.

Now I need to see if I can weasel in  Azaka Kokutou as this world's version of Frederica, Kirie Fujou as this world's version of Nemesis Q (in this universe she didn't commit suicide but someone sealed her abilities (Goverment - Daniel?)), Fujino Asagami as their clairvoyant (in this universe she got medical treatment in time, but her psychic blocks were re-enabled until the Promised Tears, which blinded her), and Meruka Kuramitsu (He put out his own eye with future sight, but he still has the Path to Victory in the form of Visions).

Kouma:
Again, same as above. He's too damn strong to be involved, but isolated enough that it makes sense for him to be. Miroku needs a heavy-hitter who isn't a Taboo-cross in the future. Plus, it mean Shiki gets payback for his clan and we get to see Shirou post-UBW take on a Behemoth outside the HGW.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#20
Maybe give Kane a limited trick with the paintings? Or maybe give her some physical buffs with her rise, so she can be a more combat oriented healer? Monks are cool you know! I was going to suggest just leaving her in the future if you decide to make her part Taboo, but considering the mechanics of how it works here you actually can't do that this time. So yeah, give her something new.

I think the problem with using the side-characters is that you run into the whole people don't really know them issue, but as long as you are having fun then that's fine.

Wait if Shirou rule breaks Shinji and Co from their contract with Nemesis Q, wouldn't that also stop them from going to the future with Nemesis Q? I mean, that's also part of the contract right?

Before giving Akiha and Co more allies for their version of the version of the Tengu's Root, maybe focus on completing the roaster of the rest of the WISE. If you have your bad guys, you can pick out good guys based on what you think might make a good match up for them. If I had to suggest someone, maybe Enhance, the vampire that hunts other vampires. If he joins the WISE to obtain the power to kill the other vamps it might make interesting, plus the Dante clone might make for a fun battle.

Also someone asked about who wins between ORT and Ouroboros, I probably would have the spider win, but that is not an issue since ORT is still sleeping. Either way, no matter who wins, it will all go according to Type-Moon's plan.
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#21
Kane:
How about we just give her Shao's skill set?

Rule Breaker:
That's an earlier draft. Either we exclude it, or we go with the fact that Nemesis Q is the one who can bring them to the future in exchange for keeping it a secret (and also killing their future counterparts to prevent a paradox), then by Rule Breaking them at the End-Game they past and future can be saved (at this point they'd be branching dimensions similar to the end of Psyren).

Akiha's Group (Rosetta Stone)
I had to hammer these out first because they came to me first. Allies that appear in the future timeline and gradually in the past, many form the Rosetta Stone sanctuary in the future to support the Fuyuki Drifters.
1. Sion Eltnam Atlasia (Co-Founder)
2. Akira Seo (Co-Founder)
3. Akiha Tohno (Co-Founder)
4. Kohaku & Hisui (Non-combatants)
5. Riesbyfe Stridberg
6. Rin Tohsaka
7. Sakura Matou (Non-combatant)
8. Azaka Kokutou
9. Fujino Asagami (Non-combatant)
10. Meruka Kuramitsu
11. Shirou Emiya (Present Timeline - Endgame)
12. Shiki Tohno (Present Timeline - Endgame)
13. Taiga (Non-combatant)

W.I.S.E
Not so easy. I need people (preferably jerks in low positions aspiring to be higher or insane) in various organizations, so I'll have to look them up later.

1. Miroku
2. Kouma (Grana)
3. Misaya Ouji - Trance user
4. Lio Shirazumi - Rise-user with some gimmick dealing with a knife (probably going to be the first W.I.S.E introduced in Arc 3 and the first to die)
5. Enhance - Vampire with Core to handle his body's upkeeping, has been hunting down other vampires
6. Julian Ainsworth - Humanity's fucked, so he decides that he'll work with them to evolve them into Taboo of the highest class
7. Beatrice Flowerchild – A Taboo homunculus of Julian's that uses a core and has electricity powers
8. Angelica – Their version of Shiner.
9. Erika – Their version of Caprico.
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#22
For the Wise, I think you are running into the problem of having too many PriIllya characters, but I guess they work. For the guys in the MA, maybe use the Yggdramillenia guys from Apoc? Daric would fit pretty well, and he has that smooth talker air that the group kinda lacks for now. Since Ciel is not in the Rosetta Stone group (good name), maybe have her be taken over too? It saddens me to suggest you do that to Sempai, but it's a practical way to do things.

Also, for now you probably should try to write a rough outline of the arcs you want to cover, so we can start throwing ideas on how to handle each one.

For Kane, you mean giving her the ability to nullify things? Not sure if that combines that well with healing... Maybe make her power something like a general return to how it was power?
 

Leidolf

Well-Known Member
#23
Enemies
This is pretty much the sort of scenario the PriIllya guys have been angling to prevent by being assholes. It just makes sense that since they failed they're trying to turn humanity into something that can survive in the new world. But yeah, I'll add some guys from Yggdramillenia (they fit the MA criteria of getting pushed down) and write up a decent backstory for why they join. Ciel was actually KIA in the future (Kouma is a hero-killer and she's not immortal anymore), and I forgot to add her to the list.


Outline
I've already started on the rough outline of the first 3 arcs and I'm going to be going over Psyren (manga) again to flesh them out.

  1. The first arc and trip will introduce the characters and the scenario post-UBW from Shinji's perspective (with an Interlude from Sakura at the end to show why she's so nice to him after he offed Zouken).
  2. The second will be the introduction of the veteran drifters and the positions they take when they return to Psyren. Kane joins the group, is injured, and later healed by Issei on the return trip. Shinji’s first attempt at a unified Mind Jack is horrible due to not being able to filter out his own thoughts, but they manage to pull through in the end and he is told to work on it. However, because none of the Fuyuki group are Trance-experts, he is forced to try on his own. (Otoko has the interlude.)
  3. The third has the Japanese-based W.I.S.E member investigates something tampering with the Sirens (it was Sion) and meets the group, which now consists of a newly awakened Kane. Ayako is severely injured protecting her, but Sion saves them. With Ayako out of the picture, it’s up to Shinji and Gai to kill the W.I.S.E so they can escape, leading to Shinji developing Nightmare Jack and Gai killing the W.I.S.E while Kane develops Cure. (The Interlude has Akira Seo having a precognition of the future and the future drifters, seeing Sion and Shinji and hearing the world Fuyuki. She heads out to the town to try and change the future.)
  4. The fourth has Shinji brings the Fuyuki Drifters and veterans to his home and gives them the overview on what Sion taught him. He reasons that they can use what they have in the library to figure something out (programming), but explicitly tells them to leave Sakura out of it. The basement is large enough for them to practice without being seen as well, though Shinji doesn’t have many good memories of it.Seo eventually finds Shinji and states she wants to help save the future, leading to him Mind Jacking her and learning about her power. This, in-turn, allows for them to come up with a plan by having Shinji and Issei go with her back to their home and meet with Akiha, who he shares the vision of the future with and they state they need her to have her brother contact Sion. He mentions that they can’t speak to her personally because of the restrictions, but because they’ve given her and Seo the memories then when she reads them they can inform those capable of doing something. (The interlude has present Sion arrive in Fuyuki and reading Shinji’s memories (without him knowing to avoid the effect of the contract), thinking of him as a sort of apprentice and this is her duty as a member of Atlas. So she then gets into contact with Shirou and Rin.)
Kane:
Shao is actually OP as hell. He can detect PSI, use Mind Jack, use Rise, use Burst to create a tracking snake, and nullify PSI. He's an ace, but basically I'm thinking of cutting up some his powers and divying it up. Kane can be the tracker of the group since none of them can track by PSI and they need a Healer. And since PSI-waves are present in the past as well, she can also help track down the W.I.S.E in that period, since the future versions may not be using their real names or have their appearance hidden.

On Psychic Powers
If we're having it so that they get psychic powers from just arriving in Psyren, does that mean its basically because their souls are exposed to the mana-saturated environment causing a mutation in the form of the circuits to realize supernatural phenomenon?

Arc 1 Detailed Outline
Arc.1 - Into Psyren
The first arc centered around the events that have been going on after the Holy Grail War and the first trip to Psyren.

Points to note
·         Shinji’s nightmares and use of the sleeping pills shows he’s suffering months after being the grail core and hints to a connection with Avenger.
·         Shinji is still a manipulative asshole, but won’t throw someone completely to their deaths for no reason.
·         Shirou cares enough to check up on Shinji.
·         Time difference between the trips is shorter than supposed to be and it wasn’t a dream because their bodies are still injured.
·         Issei is in the loop.
·         Sakura cares about her brother.
 
Chapter 1
Shinji is having a nightmare about his body swelling again in pain before the horrors of the grail bleed into him and shows him visions until he’s woken by Sakura. Sakura notes he bought this bottle only two weeks ago and is worried he’s going to overdose. Later, in the archery club, wondering why he was still there before he turns to see Sakura giving Ayako’s brother advice on aiming at his request. Shinji sees he’s interested in her, but notes that he’s barking up the wrong tree. Then he feels sickened thinking about that might be the case from how he’d been since before the Holy Grail War and the thought sickens him enough that he stepped out of the club and walked away.

He thinks back to the war, everything he’d done. He doesn’t think he’d done anything wrong, but Shinji doesn’t know how to begin approaching the others after the war (still hates he had to be saved by Rin, envious of Emiya, ashamed of what he’d done to Sakura and Ayako, and still feels violated from the agony of the grail and nightmares of the mud), and feels things aren’t right unless the scales are balanced. He decides to start when he overhears the rumor from Kane about a card supposedly linked to the Sudden Death Syndrome that she saw Ayako had gotten. He thinks to himself, feeling that if its something magical then he could take it to Rin in an effort to make amends for Ayako (though he rationalizes it that whatever broke her when he couldn’t pisses him off) and that if he caught something that they didn’t everything would be even.

He goes to talk to Sakura and has her ask Ayako’s brother about a card she might have gotten and he says that she keeps it on her at all times and stares at it when she thinks she’s alone. He then he sneaks into the office of the captain’s room and find that she’s asleep, so he reaches into her pocket and gets a look at a number on it. Ayako, however, wakes up and then grabs his hand to tell him to give it back and he does, claiming it fell out of her pocket. He then prepares to leave out, but asks at the door if she’s really okay—citing she’s been tired lately and if she’s in trouble he might can do something for her taking care of Sakura until now. She mutters he can’t help, before saying more firmly that she doesn’t want him to get involved. He says fine and then leaves, entering the number into his cellphone as Rin appears watching Sakura for a moment. The automated voice says to receive their card they must call back later, when he feels the sensation of someone watching him.

Chapter 2
He goes out to eat alone at a restaurant when he calls again and gets the questionnaire. After completing it, it’s stated the card will be delivered by morning but Shinji notes that he didn’t give an address. Nevertheless, he goes home and goes to sleep and notices that the dreams of the endless lake of mud have stopped as a strange being is floating in front of him and hands him a card. The moment he touches it in the dream, it feels like a chain around his heart and brain.

He wakes up to find the card by his bedside, on a dresser and picks it up. The back of the card that’s blank suddenly has words on it he can read, a list of rules. One of them is he can tell no one outside of those who have cards, and the moment he calls Shirou he feels the chain tighten and an eye on his back. With no other choice, he decides to confront Ayako about this at school.

She’s missing the next day, and the card has been buzzing in his ears since when he woke up. One of the rules of the card is that when it buzzes you must call the number within 24 hours, but he still has several until the buzzing gets to be too much and decides he’ll just call and say he isn’t interested. The moment he does, Nemesis Q appears in from of him and he feels himself being pulled into far off place and finds himself standing in the ruins of what looked to be some ruins.

He looks around in horror and wonders if he’s been dreaming when a taboo that looks like a cross between a dog and fat worm appears, seemingly sniffing around until it turns towards him. Then it shrieks loudly and Shinji starts running, but it leaps onto his back and pins him down as he hear more cries growing closer. That’s when he closes his eyes and wears a wet thunk before everything goes quiet and he hears a voice asking him what he’s doing here. He cracks an eye open and sees that Ayako is there, her clothes in tatters with what looks to be a sledge-hammer.

She says he saw the card number and asks why he called it, but Shinji bursts out saying it was because she was a lifeless husk and he thought he could help if he knew the problem. Ayako sucks in a sharp breath and he looks upset, making him want to bite back his words. But instead all he can ask is where they hell they are and how to get back. Ayako tells him they’re in the future and says there’s no escaping Psyren unless you survive.

Chapter 3
The other shrieks reach their ears when Ayako tells him they need to go. She picks him up and rushes out in a way that reminded him of Rider during the war until she comes to a stop at another half-buried building and tells him they’ll be safe there for the moment when Gai appears to say help. He asks what he’s doing there, she says he’s another idiot who found a card and then falls over.

Shinji reaches down and lifts her up, noticing how soft and frail her body is, and she says she just needs some rest because she’s been moving for almost four days now but he says her brother only said she was gone when he woke up. She says that time flows differently and then says she just needs a few hours of rest and she’ll get searching for the exit.

Shinji lets her rest while Gai looks around in a less terrified manner than he should when Shinji asks how he got his card. He mentions he was looking into the rumors about it from Kane and since he figured it was a calling card he ran all over the stores and public phones in Fuyuki searching for them. Shinji asks if he thought he was going to impress her with it and he pretty much admits it, but says that he’s glad he didn’t since she wouldn’t like this sight—mentioning that she liked paintings but there’s no life here.

Shinji then resumes sitting next to Ayako and thinking about everything when she falls over and into his arms without waking up. He figures she must’ve been really tired and seeing her like this reminded him of Rider cradling her after draining her, only sparing her from death on a whim of his orders. He thinks back to how easy it was for him to just say the word and she would have been killed, and wonders if that made him no better than the Old Worm because he got just a little bit of power. Only then he feels her head and realizes she has a fever and that if she’s gone this long without food or water she won’t make it.

Things get worse when Gai says he thinks they’re in trouble and points to a man looking like a Taboo—Alfred—who has some kind of dog with him. That when they receive the vision of the location from far above like they were sharing their sight with Nemesis Q and learning where it was they needed to go to escape.

Chapter 4
Shinji says they’re fucked since those two are right in the middle of the path they need to take and tries to wake her up, but she won’t because of the fever. So  Shinji comes up with a plan that they split up for the gate, with Gai going to distract it and then heading to the point while escaping Alfred, and Shinji carrying Ayako to go around behind the outcropped buildings. When he thinks Gai is going to refuse, he says that otherwise Ayako will die and her brother will be sad she went missing. Since he’s friends with Kane, Gai have to live with knowing that he let that happen. Gai tells him he doesn’t need to try and make excuses; he was going to suggest that anyway since he’s faster.

Shinji watches him go and understands that he has sentenced a classmate to death to save his own skin, but that was the person he had been. He did what he had to, even if it meant when Taiga called the roll for class the next day, only he would know why the seat was absent. It was the price he had to pay to save himself and get Ayako back, and not even the worst considering some if the horrors he’s seen in his nightmares. It wouldn’t even be needed if she took better care of herself.

When he sees Alfred going in the direction that Gai did and hears him yelling to get his attention, he heads on the way out and makes his way towards the spot. He’s halfway there when he hears snarls and figures the dog caught their scent. He runs, adrenaline coursing his veins, but understands he can’t get away as long as he carries Ayako around.

He makes a decision and sets her down, moving off to the side… before reaching for a large piece of concrete and throwing it as it nears her and knocking it to the side while it was distracted. He figures that coming here would have been for nothing if he just let it happen. His arms strain as he grabbed it again swung it down from above onto the core on its head by reflex. The core cracks and steam bleeds out of it as it slows down, struggling to move. He brings it down on its core again to finish it and then laughs, kicking the ash that remains and scattering it for good measure, before heading towards the gate.

As he nears it, Gai runs towards him while covered in dirt and scratches. Shinji asks how he escaped and he says he slid down a slope and hid behind a building that had gotten buried up to a small opening until he went away. Then an arrow lands near them and they see Alfred in the distance. Shinji realizes that it didn’t let him get away, but tracked him to get all three of them and they’re screwed.

They head towards the goal but the phone isn’t working when an arrow nails Gai in the shoulder. Shinji is about to freak out as Alfred approaches when Ayako calls him. She’s awake but weak and tells him to raise her arm towards it. He does and the Hama-yumi forms with a bolt at the ready and she fires as it lunges, blowing up its core. Then the phone rings and Shinji picks it up and they start falling.

Chapter 5

Shinji snaps awake in the infirmary with Gai, who states if kind of feels like he got shot with the arrow but there’s no wound. Shinji notice Ayako is missing and he feels sore all over from the fall. Issei then enters and tells them that Ayako is going to be fine, but they will be leaving the school because in two or so hours they will experience a high fever and nosebleed, saying that everyone who goes through it the first time suffers from it. Shinji asks how he knows about it and he holds up a card. The other two reach into their pockets and find theirs, but he points out his no longer has a number on it, indicating that he has completed his run-through and that they cannot escape from it until then—besides death.

Shinji stumbles to his feet when Sakura arrives to check on him after she heard he passed out. He thinks that was hours ago, but looks at the clock to see it hadn’t even been twenty minutes and wonders if it was a hallucination until he feels his body ache. Issei tells her that it would be best if she escorted him home and looked over him, because he’s showing signs of a fever. Sakura agrees but asks for a moment to gather her things.

Next Shirou arrives and asks if he’s alright. Shinji thinks to yell at him that he almost died and where was he, the hero-wannabe, when they need him, but he feels the effects of the contract and just tells him to go as Issei watches on. After he’s left,  Issei states that they both will come see him in the Student President Office tomorrow and Ayako will be there. Sakura returns to escort Shinji home and they leave out.

Interlude 1
Sakura asks if Shinji is really alright again after passing out back at home, but he brushes it off and says he just didn’t get enough sleep and tells her if she wants to make herself useful to go and get his sleeping pills while he lounges on the couch. She does so, pausing in front of the basement in thought, until she hears glass breaks. She then runs into the kitchen to see Shinji on the floor, blood coming out of his nose as he pants and sweat coming down his face.

Sakura helps him onto the couch and then notes he passed out, leaving her to wonder if the nightmares had become that bad after he been the holy grail. Sakura sits vigilant by his side and keeps him cool with a wet rag, thinking that it was the least she could do after he killed Zouken.

On Miroku:
I'm thinking of replacing Miroku with Darnic for the fic, since Nemesis Q isn't his Sister in this and is being guided by the Counter Force instead. It says he managed to find a way of consuming souls to power himself, which is the same BS that Miroku had, and his whole clan principle of having a thousand branches is similar to that of the Sephirot. Think about it:

Upon getting his hands on a fragment of Ouroboros, he listened to its honeyed-whispers about how his clan would never be able to rise and he would never reach the Root unless they tore the current foundations up and started anew by sowing the seeds of a new system in the ashes of the old one (Rather than acquire all the mysteries of the world, they would sow them). He managed to sabotage the Association from within with his skillful political maneuvering, removing certain individuals from one position for a seemingly better one and getting key members of his clan into place to cause a chain of events. Because he perfected a spell to consume souls, which compose PSI, he essentially became unstoppable as he has a wellspring to draw from.

Other members of W.I.S.E from Yggdmillennia:

Gordes Musik:

An alchemist from the Musik family that folded into Yggdmillennia, he was placed into the Sea of Estray by Darnic to sabotage it. After the fall of Ouroboros, he the head of the Life Propagation division of W.I.S.E and works alongside Erika and Julian. His hubris leads him to believe that he can create a superior race from the remains of humans, which his fragment of Ouroboros bolstered to the extent he used his wife and son as materials. His PSI is to turn his body into metal.

Fiore Forvedge Yggdmillenia:
A magus of incredible talent in the clan, she was placed in a high position in the Spirit Evocation department of the Association with ease. A very nice person among her family, she is, unfortunately, made to be the host of Ouroborous' Herald, Mitra, due to her Spirit Medium ability allowing her to host Mitra without breaking down as quickly.

Caules Forvedge Yggdmillenia:

Younger brother of Fiore and a member of the clan, he lacked the talent to be placed high in the rankings but was kept as an asset due to his sister's fondness for him. He ultimately defects once it becomes clear that the sister he knew and loved is gone, replaced by Mitra in her body (who ordered him to be turned into a Taboo). He is a technomancer after having a core installed, but hides it and bides his time as a reseacher in the Illumina Forge. He is Yuusuke Kusakabe's counterpart.

Celenike Icecolle Yggdmillenia:
A selfish, sadistic magus who specializes in Curses and lands a high position in that department thanks to her natural talent and disposition in addition to Darnic. She later leads the Investigation and Interrogation, taking great pleasure in torturing those brought before her and breaking their minds before they go through the Illumina Forge.

Roche Frain Yggdmillennia:
A prodigy doll maker and master of magical engineering in the Association at one point, he is later made the leader of the Research and Engineering department and completely dedicated to his work.

Hyouma Sagara:
A member of Yggdmillennia , born into a small family of lower-class mages in the Mage’s Association that specializes in concealment and suggestion. He helps bring it down from the inside and later joins the Outriders division of W.I.S.E. He uses a Taboo core as a substitute to gain access to Trance.


Other members of W.I.S.E

Sancraid Phahn
:
A member of the Church and the Assembly of the 8th Sacrament. Backed by a fragment of Ourobrous, he manipulated things within the Church and an assualt by a member of the DAA, led to the structure being too weak to survive the fall of Ouroborus. He leads the Outriders and comes to Japan once more at the thought of killing surviving Asians (who he sees as little more than sub-humans despite having incorporated a core into his body).
 

Azure

Well-Known Member
#24
Two things, first on the first arc outline: I think it works relatively well, I specially like that Shinji is not that useful on the first arc, so it gives you something to look forward to when he starts developing his PSI. Second, I actually like that Ayako and Co already have a few trips under their belts, it helps speed things a long in a good way, and get past reveals like Psyren is the future that we already know.

Overall it is a nice arc, that helps establish a good ground to build for what you want to do in the future arc. One thing I would make sure to focus on when writing is trying to sell on how weird and different Psyren is from the present Shinji came from. To really sell that post-apoc vibe.

The Yggdras being the core of the WISE works, and actually keeps to the idea that original WISE were all part of the same group before everything started. Sancraid is probably a good choice for evil church guy, but probably not that interesting in the long run.
 
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