Sailor Moon Question about canon Sailor Moon

D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
seitora said:
So I forget, was there really ever a canon source for what exactly was the source for magic, other than the Galaxy Cauldron? Like, are all the magic-users drawing off their planet, or is it an in-born gift, or do they all rely on objects of power (Henshin rods, Ginzuisho), or what?
Senshi draw on their Sailor Crystals/Planet the whole time. Ginzuishou is Usagi's soul in crystalized form after all. The items seem to just help them better channel their powers.

Magic users like Helios and Beryl's powers weren't really explained.

Edit: The items don't seem to be as important as the series goes on. Hotaru even teleported to Pluto without transforming IIRC.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Ok, I'll have to work with that for an idea of mine to inject some life back into the loop thread :D
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
seitora said:
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
I just blamed Serenity's incompetence in that fight to Nehellenia's influence
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
In which case she's probably on par with Nehellenia, just having more experience or whatnot?

But for the most part, she definitely wouldn't be able to defeat Chaos on her own, or present day Sailor Galaxia.
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
seitora said:
In which case she's probably on par with Nehellenia, just having more experience or whatnot?

But for the most part, she definitely wouldn't be able to defeat Chaos on her own, or present day Sailor Galaxia.
I would consider her way too weak to touch Galaxia. Usagi was apparently the most impressive thing ever to happen in the galaxy. No one ever said anything like that about QS.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I was just thinking randomly about "When precisely did Usagi pass Queen Serenity in strength?" which brought up my line of questions.
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
seitora said:
Yeah, I was just thinking randomly about "When precisely did Usagi pass Queen Serenity in strength?" which brought up my line of questions.
When she reached Eternal seemed to be the point she surpassed her mother. Eternal apparently activated a Galaxy Wide Love Wave and announced Usagi as hot shit to everybody at once.
 

ragnarok1337

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure that most of her power comes from the Plothax crystal, and if her and Usagi didn't have it they would be SOL.
 

seitora

Well-Known Member
That the rest of the galaxy had sentience makes you wonder if there were any aliens visiting Earth a lot in the SM galaxy (or the off-possibility that they may even have reseeded Earth after the fall of the Moon Kingdom).
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
ragnarok1337 said:
I'm pretty sure that most of her power comes from the Plothax crystal, and if her and Usagi didn't have it they would be SOL.
What does that have to do with anything? Seitora was only asking when Usagi surpassed her mom.

Seitora: From the way the starlights and Galaxia spoke it seemed like aliens considered earth a backward and trashy planet and avoided it.

The Ginzuishou/Golden Crystal/Helios/whaever probably would have also kicked out a alien presence like the ginzuishou did 4.5 billion years ago with Kaguya.
 
And pretty much moot point by the end considering her soul/starseed pretty much ate the damn thing and remade it into the Silver Moon Crystal.

So by then it wasn't something seperate from her, if it ever had been in modern times, considering the sheer length of time it was sealed inside of her before she was born as Usagi.

Besides, minus the fight with Metaria she didn't really seem to use the Ginzuishou overtly as much as QS did (IIRC). Not against Nemesis/Death Phantom, or reviving the world from Saturn's Glaive drop, or dusting Nehelennia.

Personal theory, I like to think she was pretty strong 'naturally', and assimilating/remaking the Ginzuishou gave her the boost for the whole 'HELLO GALAXY! :D' thing.

It's probably a telling thing that QS was alway seen to have had it on the end of the Cresent Moon Wand, while Usagi kept it inside her own body (after it woke up, as well as before it did), after a while. See Nehelennia TKing it out her ribcage in the Dream arc.

Since Usagi has the potential to become Cosmos (or is Cosmos' larval form or whatever), it stands to reason she would be able to withstand 'holding' it so close, then integrate it into herself more.

A long lost part of her returned, aye? Like Morrigan and Lilith, almost.
 
seitora said:
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
Its always possible that Queen Serenity didn't really know how to destroy Metaria given how outside of knowing the location of its' Achilles heel seems to be pretty much invincible. Combine that with how Metaria was also a superpowerful energy vampire that was apparently capable of absorbing energy from just about anything including the Ginzuishou, as well as being quite possibly the third strongest villain in the series, following Chaos and Galaxia, and just sealing it becomes rather impressive.
 

FlinFlon

Well-Known Member
AbyssalDaemon said:
seitora said:
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
Its always possible that Queen Serenity didn't really know how to destroy Metaria given how outside of knowing the location of its' Achilles heel seems to be pretty much invincible. Combine that with how Metaria was also a superpowerful energy vampire that was apparently capable of absorbing energy from just about anything including the Ginzuishou, as well as being quite possibly the third strongest villain in the series, following Chaos and Galaxia, and just sealing it becomes rather impressive.
I thought that Beryl and Metallia/Metaria did come out of nowhere, as far as the Moon Kingdom was concerned. That's why Endymion tried so hard to warn them: they were unaware of the rapidity with which events on Earth were happening, and how badly for their Terran allies.

So rapid that Endymion failed to deliver his warning in time to affect the outcome. Queen Serenity had lost her daughter, her senshi, and the Kingdom before she could act. Emotionally shattered, she had only the Ginzuishou to face a triumphant Beryl backed by a Metallia at the apex of its strength.

So the wonder is not that she failed to destroy Metallia, but that she was able to seal it and Beryl et al; and send her daughter's court to be reborn in the future. And all at the price of a life she probably didn't begrudge too much at that point.

Then Usagi, as previously mentioned, having been linked to the Ginzuishou as no other bearer; gets to face a Metallia that had just escaped the seal (with the additional cost of her main agent, Beryl; consumed for Metallia's avatar) and at a relative low ebb.

Still awesome by mortal standards, but not insurmountable for Usagi with her advantages and some help.

That's just how I think of it anyways; Canon could prove me wrong.
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
FlinFlon said:
AbyssalDaemon said:
seitora said:
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
Its always possible that Queen Serenity didn't really know how to destroy Metaria given how outside of knowing the location of its' Achilles heel seems to be pretty much invincible. Combine that with how Metaria was also a superpowerful energy vampire that was apparently capable of absorbing energy from just about anything including the Ginzuishou, as well as being quite possibly the third strongest villain in the series, following Chaos and Galaxia, and just sealing it becomes rather impressive.
I thought that Beryl and Metallia/Metaria did come out of nowhere, as far as the Moon Kingdom was concerned. That's why Endymion tried so hard to warn them: they were unaware of the rapidity with which events on Earth were happening, and how badly for their Terran allies.

So rapid that Endymion failed to deliver his warning in time to affect the outcome. Queen Serenity had lost her daughter, her senshi, and the Kingdom before she could act. Emotionally shattered, she had only the Ginzuishou to face a triumphant Beryl backed by a Metallia at the apex of its strength.

So the wonder is not that she failed to destroy Metallia, but that she was able to seal it and Beryl et al; and send her daughter's court to be reborn in the future. And all at the price of a life she probably didn't begrudge too much at that point.

Then Usagi, as previously mentioned, having been linked to the Ginzuishou as no other bearer; gets to face a Metallia that had just escaped the seal (with the additional cost of her main agent, Beryl; consumed for Metallia's avatar) and at a relative low ebb.

Still awesome by mortal standards, but not insurmountable for Usagi with her advantages and some help.

That's just how I think of it anyways; Canon could prove me wrong.
That's the anime version of what happened. We were talking about the manga version. I agree that anime Metallia got neutered to hell.

Usagi in the manga arguably fought a stronger Metallia then the one her mother fought. A Metallia who actually stole energy from the Ginzuishou to power up and just succeeded in killing humanity just by waking up.
 

FlinFlon

Well-Known Member
Seiya said:
FlinFlon said:
AbyssalDaemon said:
seitora said:
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
Its always possible that Queen Serenity didn't really know how to destroy Metaria given how outside of knowing the location of its' Achilles heel seems to be pretty much invincible. Combine that with how Metaria was also a superpowerful energy vampire that was apparently capable of absorbing energy from just about anything including the Ginzuishou, as well as being quite possibly the third strongest villain in the series, following Chaos and Galaxia, and just sealing it becomes rather impressive.
I thought that Beryl and Metallia/Metaria did come out of nowhere, as far as the Moon Kingdom was concerned. That's why Endymion tried so hard to warn them: they were unaware of the rapidity with which events on Earth were happening, and how badly for their Terran allies.

So rapid that Endymion failed to deliver his warning in time to affect the outcome. Queen Serenity had lost her daughter, her senshi, and the Kingdom before she could act. Emotionally shattered, she had only the Ginzuishou to face a triumphant Beryl backed by a Metallia at the apex of its strength.

So the wonder is not that she failed to destroy Metallia, but that she was able to seal it and Beryl et al; and send her daughter's court to be reborn in the future. And all at the price of a life she probably didn't begrudge too much at that point.

Then Usagi, as previously mentioned, having been linked to the Ginzuishou as no other bearer; gets to face a Metallia that had just escaped the seal (with the additional cost of her main agent, Beryl; consumed for Metallia's avatar) and at a relative low ebb.

Still awesome by mortal standards, but not insurmountable for Usagi with her advantages and some help.

That's just how I think of it anyways; Canon could prove me wrong.
That's the anime version of what happened. We were talking about the manga version. I agree that anime Metallia got neutered to hell.

Usagi in the manga arguably fought a stronger Metallia then the one her mother fought. A Metallia who actually stole energy from the Ginzuishou to power up and just succeeded in killing humanity just by waking up.
:blink: Okay. So in the manga, Metallia has woken up (the mere act of doing so has killed off humanity) and increased her strength by leeching off the Ginzuishou?

1.) I need to reread the manga, because I don't remember that! Or maybe it was lost in the old translation. Anyways its been awhile. :headbanger:

But before I hit the scans again, where did Usagi get her juice: from the Ginzuishou (outdrawing Metallia), or from inside herself?


And just as a IMO: the anime version is making more sense right now. :hmm:
 
D

Deleted member 5249

Guest
FlinFlon said:
Seiya said:
FlinFlon said:
AbyssalDaemon said:
seitora said:
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
Its always possible that Queen Serenity didn't really know how to destroy Metaria given how outside of knowing the location of its' Achilles heel seems to be pretty much invincible. Combine that with how Metaria was also a superpowerful energy vampire that was apparently capable of absorbing energy from just about anything including the Ginzuishou, as well as being quite possibly the third strongest villain in the series, following Chaos and Galaxia, and just sealing it becomes rather impressive.
I thought that Beryl and Metallia/Metaria did come out of nowhere, as far as the Moon Kingdom was concerned. That's why Endymion tried so hard to warn them: they were unaware of the rapidity with which events on Earth were happening, and how badly for their Terran allies.

So rapid that Endymion failed to deliver his warning in time to affect the outcome. Queen Serenity had lost her daughter, her senshi, and the Kingdom before she could act. Emotionally shattered, she had only the Ginzuishou to face a triumphant Beryl backed by a Metallia at the apex of its strength.

So the wonder is not that she failed to destroy Metallia, but that she was able to seal it and Beryl et al; and send her daughter's court to be reborn in the future. And all at the price of a life she probably didn't begrudge too much at that point.

Then Usagi, as previously mentioned, having been linked to the Ginzuishou as no other bearer; gets to face a Metallia that had just escaped the seal (with the additional cost of her main agent, Beryl; consumed for Metallia's avatar) and at a relative low ebb.

Still awesome by mortal standards, but not insurmountable for Usagi with her advantages and some help.

That's just how I think of it anyways; Canon could prove me wrong.
That's the anime version of what happened. We were talking about the manga version. I agree that anime Metallia got neutered to hell.

Usagi in the manga arguably fought a stronger Metallia then the one her mother fought. A Metallia who actually stole energy from the Ginzuishou to power up and just succeeded in killing humanity just by waking up.
:blink: Okay. So in the manga, Metallia has woken up (the mere act of doing so has killed off humanity) and increased her strength by leeching off the Ginzuishou?

1.) I need to reread the manga, because I don't remember that! Or maybe it was lost in the old translation. Anyways its been awhile. :headbanger:

But before I hit the scans again, where did Usagi get her juice: from the Ginzuishou (outdrawing Metallia), or from inside herself?


And just as a IMO: the anime version is making more sense right now. :hmm:
Usagi drew on the Ginzuishou, Mamoru and Luna channeling the power of the Moon Castle and used all that power to target Metalia's one weak point.

Metallia drove everyone insane to the point that killing themselves was the only way to have relief.
 

FlinFlon

Well-Known Member
Seiya said:
FlinFlon said:
Seiya said:
FlinFlon said:
AbyssalDaemon said:
seitora said:
Seiya said:
seitora said:
So how strong is manga Queen Serenity, exactly? She sealed both Queen Nehellenia and Metaria away, but didn't outright destroy them - as to whether she couldn't or wouldn't I'm not sure on the point of Nehellenia.

Should I liken it to that she was strong because of age, while Usagi herself gained strength in fits and leaps and eventually became stronger than her mother, and then strong enough to put down Chaos?
Her power level isn't really clarified. The grief she had when sealing Metallia seems to be the reason it didn't full out die when I read it .
That would beggar the question why, barring Metaria and Queen Beryl doing a one-hit kill on the Moon Kingdom without being revealed as villains whatsoever beforehand, Queen Serenity couldn't just kill them earlier in whatever war the Moon Kingdom and presumably Elysion were waging against Metaria.
Its always possible that Queen Serenity didn't really know how to destroy Metaria given how outside of knowing the location of its' Achilles heel seems to be pretty much invincible. Combine that with how Metaria was also a superpowerful energy vampire that was apparently capable of absorbing energy from just about anything including the Ginzuishou, as well as being quite possibly the third strongest villain in the series, following Chaos and Galaxia, and just sealing it becomes rather impressive.
I thought that Beryl and Metallia/Metaria did come out of nowhere, as far as the Moon Kingdom was concerned. That's why Endymion tried so hard to warn them: they were unaware of the rapidity with which events on Earth were happening, and how badly for their Terran allies.

So rapid that Endymion failed to deliver his warning in time to affect the outcome. Queen Serenity had lost her daughter, her senshi, and the Kingdom before she could act. Emotionally shattered, she had only the Ginzuishou to face a triumphant Beryl backed by a Metallia at the apex of its strength.

So the wonder is not that she failed to destroy Metallia, but that she was able to seal it and Beryl et al; and send her daughter's court to be reborn in the future. And all at the price of a life she probably didn't begrudge too much at that point.

Then Usagi, as previously mentioned, having been linked to the Ginzuishou as no other bearer; gets to face a Metallia that had just escaped the seal (with the additional cost of her main agent, Beryl; consumed for Metallia's avatar) and at a relative low ebb.

Still awesome by mortal standards, but not insurmountable for Usagi with her advantages and some help.

That's just how I think of it anyways; Canon could prove me wrong.
That's the anime version of what happened. We were talking about the manga version. I agree that anime Metallia got neutered to hell.

Usagi in the manga arguably fought a stronger Metallia then the one her mother fought. A Metallia who actually stole energy from the Ginzuishou to power up and just succeeded in killing humanity just by waking up.
:blink: Okay. So in the manga, Metallia has woken up (the mere act of doing so has killed off humanity) and increased her strength by leeching off the Ginzuishou?

1.) I need to reread the manga, because I don't remember that! Or maybe it was lost in the old translation. Anyways its been awhile. :headbanger:

But before I hit the scans again, where did Usagi get her juice: from the Ginzuishou (outdrawing Metallia), or from inside herself?


And just as a IMO: the anime version is making more sense right now. :hmm:
Usagi drew on the Ginzuishou, Mamoru and Luna channeling the power of the Moon Castle and used all that power to target Metalia's one weak point.

Metallia drove everyone insane to the point that killing themselves was the only way to have relief.
So the manga fight was just a Called Shot to the Reactor Exhaust Port?

Ah, that's why the "How come Queen Serenity didn't finish Metallia?" question.
Sorry for wasting your time Seiya, and thank you for your patience. :hail:

Will get to manga soon. :sweat:
 

AbyssalDaemon

Well-Known Member
More of a hit on Metallia secret Achilles heel. The only reason that Usagi and Mamoru ever even learned of it was that Kunzite's ghost managed to tell Mamoru.
 

Dumbledork

Well-Known Member
How does Rei's fire reading work exactly? How precise is it and what kind of things does she see?
 

Leonite

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Rei, what do we know of her family outside of her Granfather, and the fact that her father is a politician? Been thinking of a Kamen Rider crossover idea for a while, just need to check how viable it might be as the rider in question happens to share a last name, which is part of the plot.
 

nick012000

Well-Known Member
Leonite said:
Speaking of Rei, what do we know of her family outside of her Granfather, and the fact that her father is a politician? Been thinking of a Kamen Rider crossover idea for a while, just need to check how viable it might be as the rider in question happens to share a last name, which is part of the plot.
A crossover with Kamen Rider OOO? According to Wiki, her mother <a href='http://sailormoon.wikia.com/wiki/Risa_Hino' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>died</a> due to an illness, and her <a href='http://sailormoon.wikia.com/wiki/Kengo_Ibuki' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>cousin</a> got turned into a Monster Of The Week in the anime.
 
Top