Naruto Rereading the Manga

[ankokudaishogun]

If Hashirama was still alive at the death of Tobirama, Tobirama would hadn't bother with picking up Sarutobi as successor.

Also, we don't actually know WHEN Sarutobi became Hokage: while IIRC the earliest Sarutobi with Kage clothes is shown being quite older than the Sarutobi at Tobirama's death, that doesn't imply he wasn't Hokage in the meanwhile.

 

[AoMythology]

Minato was the youngest Hokage at 23 - or do I remember wrong?

I can see Hashirama resigning after Tobirama backstabbing him with the Nidaime debacle and Madara doing something even worse. Or, Hashirama's health could be rather bad; that would explain why he died young (IIRC, when Tsunade was five*), when he was too strong to be beaten by even Kage-level ninjas.

*Tsunade was five when Sarutobi was 23-24. Hmm.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

IIRC Minato being the youngest hokage was fanon. I don't think it was ever stated.

 

[Altered Nova]

Actually, I think AoMythology has a point.

Looking up their databook given ages and doing the math, Hiruzen was 23-24 when he took the 6 year old Tsunade as one of his genin students.

Hashirama lived long enough to spoil his granddaughter Tsunade. His mental image of her was a toddler, and she was old enough for him to teach her gambling. I would guess she was 2 or 3 years old. This means that Hashirama was still alive when Hiruzen was 19-21.

Hiruzen looked significantly younger in the flashback where Tobirama named him the new Hokage then he did as Tsunade's sensei. He was fully grown, but more baby-faced. My guess is that he was in his late teens, but we can at least confidently state that Hiruzen definitely became Hokage before taking a genin team.

So yeah, that bit of the timeline is pretty cramped. Hashirama's death, Tobirama's death and Hiruzen becoming Tsunade's sensei all happened within a 3-5 year time frame... and Hashirama's and Tobirama's deaths were likely within the first year or two of that period.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Naruto timeline doesn't make any sense, further news at 11

 

[da_fox2279]

... Tsunade was 6 years old when she became a genin? Holy shit, she and the other 2 looked older that that in the flashbacks. Around 10-12, maybe. Damn.

Also, Anko: Love that pic. Totally saved for later use.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

... Tsunade was 6 years old when she became a genin? Holy shit, she and the other 2 looked older that that in the flashbacks. Around 10-12, maybe. Damn.

To be precise, we don't actually know if they got under Sarutobi as soon as they became Genin

Also, Anko: Love that pic. Totally saved for later use.

In theme with itself, it's a quite old pic

 

[Altered Nova]

... Tsunade was 6 years old when she became a genin? Holy shit, she and the other 2 looked older that that in the flashbacks. Around 10-12, maybe. Damn.

To be precise, we don't actually know if they got under Sarutobi as soon as they became Genin

...Huh. Now that I think of it, this does make a lot more sense. The Sannin do all look like preteens in that bell test flashback, they talk like preteens (it would be weird for a six year old to already be a huge pervert), there's no mention of the loser being sent back to the academy, and they don't talk to Sarutobi like prospective new genin ("Master Sarutobi, you're always 'Orochimaru this' and 'Orochimaru that'!")

Hmm. I think Sarutobi might have already been training them for a while and his bell test was just a normal training exercise and not a graduation test. And if you are also right that Sarutobi wasn't their first Jounin instructor, that would give his early timeline crunch a bit of slack.

 

[Knyght]

Isn't there a flashback after Jiraiya dies where Tsunade remembers their first meeting with Orochimaru and Hiruzen in the background? Dunno if that's relevant.

In others news, TIL that Mabui died as well as Shikaku, Inoichi and Ao to the Tailed Beast Ball. I honestly had no idea.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

I'm guessing an undeterminated amount of time passed between Graduation and getting Sarutobi.

It might have been their trial for actual Field Work as a Team instead of, basically, D-Ranks or anyway staying inside the village or doing something "safe"(relatively).

I also bet in those days D-Ranks were more like building structures, move paperworks and military-related shit like that. Once they grow up enough\show they can take more, they got assigned a Jonin teacher, or anyway the teacher can decide to bring them out in the field- I'd say Team Sarutobi were between 8 and 10 years old at the time of the bell test.

 

[AoMythology]

Just how good at Fuuinjutsu was Sasori? We've seen things from him that no other Suna shinobi has managed.

I suspect that Sealing was his true specialty.

 

[Knyght]

More like fuuinjutsu goes in hand with the Puppet Jutsu of which Sasori is da bomb.

Off the top of my head, all I can remember him using it for was storing puppets in scrolls, storing fire for his flamethrower (pretty nifty) and those summoning seals for the Third Kazekage's extra arms. Chiyo stored puppets in scrolls, had the sealing lion thing and that tornado puppet combo thing. And then there's Kankuro who only stores puppets in scrolls and needs a scroll for each one being the loser he is.

 

[AoMythology]

He stored his brain in a cylinder and was able to mind-control (and/or alter the memories of) others. That's far beyond anything anyone else from Suna managed.

 

[Knyght]

Just remembered I had actually intended to reply to that. :huh:

Ah well.

An idea I heard recently was of Kagutsuchi being used to control any fire, not just Amaterasu. Using it on their own Fire Release to pull off cool stuff like this or an enemy's to deflect it or turn it back on them. It stemmed from a misunderstanding of Viz's bizarre decision to translation Kagutsuchi as "Flame Control" unlike literally every other MS jutsu.

Kinda appeals to me because Kagutsuchi being entirely useless without Amaterasu being involved bugs me.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Amaterasu most likely isn't the only Enton.

Hell, Tobirama identified it as Kagutsuchi...

 

[Knyght]

I'm sure what you mean? He identified it as Kagutsuchi when Sasuke shot an arrow coated by Amaterasu through that skill, implying that he had seen other Uchiha with the two abilities in the past.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Basically: black flames = Enton.
Manipulate them in any way =Kagutsuchi

 

[Knyght]

Spoiler

Y'know, Naruto, Sasuke and the rest really aren't drawn with all that much muscle tone. Given that their lives are spent training, running, fighting and all sorts of physically demanding activities on a daily basis, I'd expect them to have physiques more like these guys.

I guess that's just Kishimoto's style.

 

[Altered Nova]

Well, I assume it's because most ninja focus more on aerobic/cardio training than on building skeletal muscles, because increasing respiration efficiency, heart strength, red blood cell count, circulatory efficiency, etc, means increased stamina, which is much more important for chakra production and recovery than raw muscle mass.

Also if you prefer to crush your enemies with your bare hands, Tsunade shows us that improving chakra control can lead to far greater increases in raw strength than improving muscle tone and mass does. Guys like Rock Lee and Might Guy are very unusually ripped by ninja standards.

Heck, it might even be that ninja simply use their muscles less than those other guys from other manga you linked too, and they rely more on chakra to move around.

 

[Knyght]

I'd be amused if Kishimoto had genuinely thought along those lines and his character designs were tailored to fit it. Pity no-one ever asks him such super important questions.

 

[Knyght]

Spoiler

I just realised that Sakura doesn't accomplish anything that couldn't have believably been done by Naruto in the battle against Kaguya. She provides Obito with chakra to open portals between worlds and she smacks Kaguya in the head; the former could have been done with a shadow clone providing it with his and Kurama's chakra, the latter by another shadow clone falling from above. No one needed healing IIRC but he could have done that too.

 

[Knyght]

Spoiler

I've just seen it pointed out that the Straight Tomoe Mangekyo Sharingan may literally just mean it's the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. :hmm:

 

[Altered Nova]

That would explain why the term is never explained, and never comes up anywhere else before or since.

I suppose that would mean that "Straight Tomoe Sharingan" was Madara's original name for his new eyes after he took/was given Izuna's Mangekyou Sharingans. And "Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan" was just the name that Itachi invented to better explain the concept to his younger brother.

I think Madara would probably agree with me that Itachi thought up a much better name for the perfected form of the Sharingan.

Spoiler

Who are the two other shinobi Kisame knows that he believes to be as skilled in taijutsu as Might Guy is?

 

[AoMythology]

Maybe a previous Mizukage and Kisame himself? Who knows?

 

[Knyght]

One of the Jinchuuriki? Roushi's a nintaijutsu user and Kisame said he gave him some trouble. And Han's abilities are practically made for close quarters combat.