Nasuverse Rin in Vanilla SAO

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#26
Let's leave aside whether Shirou could actually use Structural Grasp to figure out what's going on. Or rather, let's assume he can and go from there. (Yeah it's superfluous because Waver but w/e) So what if Shirou has a way to save Rin?

Unless it's something that can instantly save everyone at the same time without any failures or exceptions, then it's something where he'll have to choose who to save and who to sacrifice (to Kayaba's extremely possible retaliation). That requires that he completes Emiya-Style Hero Training first so that he's even willing to make that decision.

I agree that this is the kind of incident that could very well trigger Emiya to walk the Hero's Path. But he's a stranger to Rin, so rather than a character, he's more like, a potential Deus Ex Machina that crashes through the wall and cuts short plot threads instead of solving them, you know? Like if Kayaba logs out in his secret cabin, pops the NG off his head, and then there's a click sound and turns and looks, an Emiya-style hero is sitting across the room holding a revolver against his girlfriend's head, and says in a flat voice, "okay, let's start negotiations." Like that, Shirou could technically solve the plot, but I dunno that's the direction this story should go?

I mean, like if you wanted to introduce him as a "character", like, it's possible; for example, he tags along with Issei when the other kid visits (out of obligation), and when Issei steps out to use the bathroom he uses SG on Rin's NerveGear, and then she grabs the connection to establish a path so that they can talk telepathically or whatever.

Then, rather than having to struggle to circumvent the NG with a Familiar, instead she could recruit a sidekick, who can't really do jack to help her, because he's 3rd-rate, and a specialist in something else.
 

Wavelet365

Well-Known Member
#27
daniel_gudman said:
I mean, like if you wanted to introduce him as a "character", like, it's possible; for example, he tags along with Issei when the other kid visits (out of obligation), and when Issei steps out to use the bathroom he uses SG on Rin's NerveGear, and then she grabs the connection to establish a path so that they can talk telepathically or whatever.

Then, rather than having to struggle to circumvent the NG with a Familiar, instead she could recruit a sidekick, who can't really do jack to help her, because he's 3rd-rate, and a specialist in something else.
This is a beautiful idea, although Issei and Shirou won't even go to the same school for six months or so, so I would guess introducing Shirou would be at least a year off.

This actually works quite well, as I already have a magus 'villain' in the real world picked out to cause Rin problems, but Rin isn't really able to do much against him but be a victim. Waver also wasn't offering very impressive opposition in my outlines, as he's in England too often. On the other hand, if Rin has 'wants to be a hero Shirou' around, then he can act as Rin's protector/helper in the real world (in addition to his other roles). Also, if the villain 'wins' (one route I'm considering, although note that I write 'wins' rather than wins) that could spur some interesting character development for Shirou.

The other two FSN characters I'm thinking about right now are Shinji and Ayako.

As per Fate/Hollow Atraxia, Mitsuzuri apparently spends a ton of her free time playing video games and constantly mocks Rin for her lack of tech knowledge. This leads to an amusing scene in HA in which Shirou runs into Rin at an electronics store, desperately trying to bone up on tech knowledge before she sees Mitsuzuri over the weekend. Rin ends up comparing DVD players to true magic.

Anyway, the point is that Mitsuzuri could definitely be playing SAO, but I don't thinks she adds much that other female characters in SAO don't already offer. I mean, Mitsuzuri is basically Rin's friendly rival, which is a slot which could easily be filled by Asuna, Liz, Griselda or quite a few other characters, depending on what Rin ends up doing. Consequently, I'm kind of inclined to stick Mitsuzuri in ALO, rather than SAO.

As for Shinji, I want him in SAO, but I don't really want Rin focusing on Sakura, which seems inevitable if Shinji is hospitalized anywhere near Rin. Consequently, I'm not sure if I want Shinji in SAO. Basically, if Sakura is around, then I'm worried that this will turn into a sisterly bonding fic, when I really want Rin largely isolated from the real world and bonding with characters in SAO.

I sort of want Rin straddling both worlds in the sense that she really wants to return to the real world, but all her important personal connections are in Aincrad. Shirou might be okay, as he wouldn't show up until she's been in Aincrad for ages, but Sakura showing up every day to visit starting a few days from now would really screw that up.

Where I'm sort of going is the idea of 'A Magus in Aincrad.' To be more precise, in FSN, Rin says this about magi:

"We're basically heretics who hide ourselves from the world."

"Well, to be honest, the modern world doesn't recognize the existence of magi. As we believe, control and learn things that are immeasurable, our existence is incompatible with the modern world. Because it's kind of meaningless. Going to a normal school and becoming a normal adult will bring you far more happiness than studying magecraft."

So, in story terms, what I'm trying to build is something like this:

Rin is basically a heretic who rejects the laws of Aincrad and hides her magecraft from Kayaba Akihiko and the Cardinal system.

Aincrad doesn't recognize the existence of magi, who believe, control and learn things that are immeasurable and which are incompatible with the world of Sword Art Online. Because it's kind of meaningless. Joining the frontline and becoming a clearer would bring her far more happiness than studying magecraft.

By building Rin like this (although it's a bit of an oversimplification) I can make a much stronger commentary on the culture of magi and also have Rin grow in ways that will profoundly affect how she thinks about magi and magecraft outside the game. I'm also quite happy with the parallel between Waver developing something that's almost true magic in terms of the World, while Rin tries to develop something which (if we think of the real world as the truth beyond Aincrad) is sort of like a path to the Root of the World of Aincrad.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#28
If Shinji, Mitsuzuri, or anyone else from Fuyuki is in the game, then Rin will have to juggle three different personas: the "newb", the "magus", and the "Perfect Honor Student." I think bringing anyone that knew her in Fuyuki into the game is a mistake: If it's "A Magus in Aincrad", than introducing the fake face she puts on to move smoothly through Muggle Society is maybe too complicated.

For Shinji and Mitsuzuri, it's simple: make them people that wanted to play, but they weren't "lucky" enough to be one of the 10,000 Players in the first selection. That preserves their identity as "gamers" and perfectly explains why they aren't playing something as important as SAO.

(...This is ridiculous, but Gil had to occupy his time somehow between Wars Four and Five....)

However, as people that know Rin, wouldn't they naturally be interested in finding out more about the SAO Incident? You could use them as exposition mouthpieces to explain stuff to Shirou, for example, if he asked them to (either under his own initiative as an Apprentice Hero, or as Rin's assistant).

...If the Son of Kiritsugu starts sniffing around, I don't think Kotomine would object, he might even help. For example, if he teaches the kid magecraft, then he assuages his duty to help Rin out, and he's also getting an Emiya involved.
 

Wavelet365

Well-Known Member
#29
daniel_gudman said:
If Shinji, Mitsuzuri, or anyone else from Fuyuki is in the game, then Rin will have to juggle three different personas: the "newb", the "magus", and the "Perfect Honor Student." I think bringing anyone that knew her in Fuyuki into the game is a mistake: If it's "A Magus in Aincrad", than introducing the fake face she puts on to move smoothly through Muggle Society is maybe too complicated.

For Shinji and Mitsuzuri, it's simple: make them people that wanted to play, but they weren't "lucky" enough to be one of the 10,000 Players in the first selection. That preserves their identity as "gamers" and perfectly explains why they aren't playing something as important as SAO.

(...This is ridiculous, but Gil had to occupy his time somehow between Wars Four and Five....)

However, as people that know Rin, wouldn't they naturally be interested in finding out more about the SAO Incident? You could use them as exposition mouthpieces to explain stuff to Shirou, for example, if he asked them to (either under his own initiative as an Apprentice Hero, or as Rin's assistant).

...If the Son of Kiritsugu starts sniffing around, I don't think Kotomine would object, he might even help. For example, if he teaches the kid magecraft, then he assuages his duty to help Rin out, and he's also getting an Emiya involved.
Thanks. I like almost all of this.

The one thing I would note is that Mitsuzuri doesn't know Rin. They both met at high school (I think this is in their conversation in the prologue of FSN, although I'd have to go check). Rin and Shinji also don't know each other, as Shinji went to the same junior high as Shirou. Shinji probably would know about the Tohsaka family, but probably wouldn't even be aware that Rin was involved in the SAO incident.

So, Mitsuzuri and Shinji (as Shirou will meet Mitsuzuri through the archery club and already knows Shinji) would work as good sources of exposition, but Shirou would probably have to bring the topic up.

As for Gil, I hadn't even thought about him, but it now seems clear to me that he belongs in an omake in which he leads the King's Guild against the World Tree day after day, in order to bring down that mongrel pretender Oberon. In the end, when Kirito appears, desperate to save Asuna, he graciously accepts Kirito as his minion, and they join force to crush the pathetic mongrel who dares call himself a king.
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#30
I merely brought up Shirou because he seemed like the most likely person who COULD free Rin with the use of magic, since that was the topic at the time. I wasn't intending to suggest his usage at all in the story (hence my quip about it sucks to be Rin, since she doesn't know of his talents at the time) and honestly wouldn't want him involved in the story at all. And really, he couldn't free Rin anyway, because it'd cause too big of a controversy. Never mind the whole magic exposure (which I imagine Kotomine could handle), he's left alone in a room with Rin for a bit and next thing anyone knows, he's broken/altered the NerveGear and freed someone from the game safely? He'd be hounded for the knowledge on how he did that. So he couldn't be used at all, really.
 

Wavelet365

Well-Known Member
#31
Rising Dragon said:
I merely brought up Shirou because he seemed like the most likely person who COULD free Rin with the use of magic, since that was the topic at the time. I wasn't intending to suggest his usage at all in the story (hence my quip about it sucks to be Rin, since she doesn't know of his talents at the time) and honestly wouldn't want him involved in the story at all. And really, he couldn't free Rin anyway, because it'd cause too big of a controversy. Never mind the whole magic exposure (which I imagine Kotomine could handle), he's left alone in a room with Rin for a bit and next thing anyone knows, he's broken/altered the NerveGear and freed someone from the game safely? He'd be hounded for the knowledge on how he did that. So he couldn't be used at all, really.
Oh, I definitely wouldn't have him free Rin, if he does show up. Anyway, if he shows up at all, it will be like 20-30 chapters from now, and I might decide to cut him entirely in favour of Rin making a better familiar using the spirit of a dead SAO player (which could do most of the things I would want Shirou to do anyway and would be interesting in other ways) or he might just make a cameo appearance.

If I get to a post-SAO sequel, Shirou would definitely be in it, but I'm still kind of ambivalent about him showing up before then, as, in such a sequel, I'd want to play with the idea that everyone Rin really cares about is off in Tokyo, or something like that, getting ready for SAO survivor school, or dealing with Sugou/ALO, while, as the guardian of Fuyuki, Rin's stuck in Fuyuki, getting dragged into a Holy Grail War which she's not really prepared for at all.
 
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