Nasuverse Servant's that never were and never will be
- Thread starter Grunt
- Start date
The Chimera Beast was puny. It was the Chimera Dryad that was Hell, and even Alice's magic failed to do anything to the very first Chimera Dryad they met. My guess is she did that well simply because she didn't run into that one. We're talking one of Promestein's monsters... she can and totally WOULD create one specifically to creep out the Monster Lord. Not that it fails to creep anyone else out...
That said, Gnome's powerup is supposed to be so good that back during the melee even Granberia couldn't break through it, and Granberia managed to give Alice a hell of a fight. Alice is primarily a magic user... it's no wonder that her physical attack would end up being shit.
It doesn't help that I get the distinct impression Alice slacked off in her training, while the others did not. She became obsessed with that whole "O NOES I SCREWED UP MY MUM'S PLAN" thing, and I could totally buy that she simply was so busy thinking of ways to 'undo' the mistake that she simply failed miserably to keep herself in a decent fighting shape. My bet is if everyone fought again today, Granberia would wipe the floor with her in short order.
That said, Gnome's powerup is supposed to be so good that back during the melee even Granberia couldn't break through it, and Granberia managed to give Alice a hell of a fight. Alice is primarily a magic user... it's no wonder that her physical attack would end up being shit.
It doesn't help that I get the distinct impression Alice slacked off in her training, while the others did not. She became obsessed with that whole "O NOES I SCREWED UP MY MUM'S PLAN" thing, and I could totally buy that she simply was so busy thinking of ways to 'undo' the mistake that she simply failed miserably to keep herself in a decent fighting shape. My bet is if everyone fought again today, Granberia would wipe the floor with her in short order.
Puny or not it still take upward to 3 VRS before it goes down. Alice punched one mundanely and splattered it all over the nearest wall. Then she went and soloed several dozen more of the damn thing all at once while Luka struggle against one followed by a Dryad type.
This is not the behavior of someone who does a puny 180 HP of damage a punch or has shit strength.
She's a lamia for duck sake, she's pretty much all muscle.
Seriously, this is the one thing that annoy me most with MGQ. For a game that's usually so good about not having much Gameplay And Story Segregation, Alice's performance as an end boss was just insulting.
As for a Granberia rematch, it would depend entirely upon Alice's willingness to use her more lethal Magic Eyes techniques and Granberia's ability to withstand them.
You should include them in her Servant profile by the way.
Mystic Eye of Seduction, Sleep, Confusion, Control and Petrification.
This is not the behavior of someone who does a puny 180 HP of damage a punch or has shit strength.
She's a lamia for duck sake, she's pretty much all muscle.
Seriously, this is the one thing that annoy me most with MGQ. For a game that's usually so good about not having much Gameplay And Story Segregation, Alice's performance as an end boss was just insulting.
As for a Granberia rematch, it would depend entirely upon Alice's willingness to use her more lethal Magic Eyes techniques and Granberia's ability to withstand them.
You should include them in her Servant profile by the way.
Mystic Eye of Seduction, Sleep, Confusion, Control and Petrification.
Deathwings said:
Puny or not it still take upward to 3 VRS before it goes down. Alice punched one mundanely and splattered it all over the nearest wall. Then she went and soloed several dozen more of the damn thing all at once while Luka struggle against one followed by a Dryad type.
This is not the behavior of someone who does a puny 180 HP of damage a punch or has shit strength.
She's a lamia for duck sake, she's pretty much all muscle.
Seriously, this is the one thing that annoy me most with MGQ. For a game that's usually so good about not having much Gameplay And Story Segregation, Alice's performance as an end boss was just insulting.
As for a Granberia rematch, it would? depend entirely upon Alice's willingness to use her more lethal Magic Eyes techniques and Granberia's ability to withstand them.
You should include them in her Servant profile by the way.
Mystic Eye of Seduction, Sleep, Confusion, Control and Petrification.
This is not the behavior of someone who does a puny 180 HP of damage a punch or has shit strength.
She's a lamia for duck sake, she's pretty much all muscle.
Seriously, this is the one thing that annoy me most with MGQ. For a game that's usually so good about not having much Gameplay And Story Segregation, Alice's performance as an end boss was just insulting.
As for a Granberia rematch, it would? depend entirely upon Alice's willingness to use her more lethal Magic Eyes techniques and Granberia's ability to withstand them.
You should include them in her Servant profile by the way.
Mystic Eye of Seduction, Sleep, Confusion, Control and Petrification.
It makes sense, even. All her strength is in her SNAKE half... her arms are pretty damn limp, and she doesn't seem to use elemental augmentation on herself at all. In fact, she's strangely limited in elemental abilities - no Earth or Wind at all, only Fire and Water (or rather Ice), plus Monster Lord's Cruelty and multicast abilities. Luka actually has more variety than she does.
And by endgame he's actually outdamaging her. In the Beelzebub fight, his Serene Demon Sword usually does more damage than her Monster Lord's Cruelty, and she has no reason whatsoever to hold back on the Beelzebubs. He just has issues building SP up enough to keep a constant DPS... but as far as raw damage per hit goes, he was outdoing her before even getting all the upgrades. By the end, he's hitting endgame enemies for 4000+ damage with SDS or 5000+, very possibly 6000+ with VRS depending on luck of the RNG (and by the way, that damage output would mean he'd basically oneshot any Chimera Beast in Remina, and 2HKO the Chimera Dryad), whereas the highest I saw of her was 2600 with Monster Lord's Cruelty on... a defenseless pot.
Bottom line, if we take end of P2 Luka, he outdoes Alice so badly it's not even funny, is only held back by having to build SP, and if we put him and Alice in the same situation in Remina again, he'd probably have a higher killcount than her by virtue of Salamander-VRS-next fight-Salamander-VRS-next fight-repeat until nausea sets in. Or hell, Undine-SRS-next, which has the added bonus that the Chimeras can't even touch him.
Then again, it makes sense. Heinrich's successor and all. And of course, there's Quadruple Giga, which is instadeath if it ever gets off. lol 50k damage on anything. Too bad for the setup, although it could be solved by simply moving to a higher ground. Get on a large enough rock and snipe whoever annoys you, hahaha.
Maybe. It still rankle, particularly with the difference of stats distribution between Luka and the monsters tough. PCs always have more DPS then their opponent since said opponents have mountains of HP to chew through. I really prefer Disgaea approach in those matter.
You still need to add her Mystic Eyes tech to Alice though. Those are some very potent Noble Phantasm after all.
Also, say, how would Luka having high defense but little HP translate in F/SN stat rank ?
You still need to add her Mystic Eyes tech to Alice though. Those are some very potent Noble Phantasm after all.
Also, say, how would Luka having high defense but little HP translate in F/SN stat rank ?
Luka DOESN'T have high defense. If you notice, his DEF is stuck at 25 all of the two games since getting the Enrikan Shirt. ALL his defense comes from Gnome. THAT's what makes Alice's 180 damage WITHOUT Gnome on pathetic. He's got absolutely puny defense compared to his attack power, yet she can't do anything resembling serious damage to him with her fists. Her holding back is not enough to justify such a LOW damage number. Especially since she doesn't fight like she intends to lose, unless you think someone who intends to lose chain-casts Omega Blaze, Frost Ozma and Monster Lord's Cruelty for potentially 3000 damage.
Her physical output is utter shit, with even a single hit of her MLC doing 700+ compared to her punch doing 180. It just plain doesn't add up.
Her physical output is utter shit, with even a single hit of her MLC doing 700+ compared to her punch doing 180. It just plain doesn't add up.
Well, duh, of course I was talking about him with Gnome active. And he does have high defense, otherwise all those monsters that actually did hit for real, all of them having been stated to have incredible strength, would have splattered him with ease. And yes, I did took a punch from the giant golem without Gnome active.
That or the monsters are all actually weaklings.
EDIT : You know, I remembered something. Aren't Heroic Spirits suppose to be the BEST version of the individual they represent ? Wouldn't that give us some, ah, wiggling room when making those Servants profile ?
That or the monsters are all actually weaklings.
EDIT : You know, I remembered something. Aren't Heroic Spirits suppose to be the BEST version of the individual they represent ? Wouldn't that give us some, ah, wiggling room when making those Servants profile ?
Deathwings said:
Well, duh, of course I was talking about him with Gnome active. And he does have high defense, otherwise all those monsters that actually did hit for real, all of them having been stated to have incredible strength, would have splattered him with ease. And yes, I did took a punch from the giant golem without Gnome active.
That or the monsters are all actually weaklings.
EDIT : You know, I remembered something. Aren't Heroic Spirits suppose to be the BEST version of the individual they represent ? Wouldn't that give us some, ah, wiggling room when making those Servants profile ?
That or the monsters are all actually weaklings.
EDIT : You know, I remembered something. Aren't Heroic Spirits suppose to be the BEST version of the individual they represent ? Wouldn't that give us some, ah, wiggling room when making those Servants profile ?
In the case of Alice, what the Monster Lord is renowned for is her incredible MAGICAL power. Her physical prowess is rarely, if ever, brought up. That would actually make a case for her strength to be proportionally even LOWER than it actually is, since her legend wouldn't hint at it being anything special.
People like Granberia, who were capable of laying waste to whole armies, have well-documented feats of strength, on the other hand, and some were even exaggerated.
And Alma would arguably get a power BOOST, what with her moonlighting as an undefeated Arena fighter and all.
GenocideHeart said:
Deathwings said:
Well, duh, of course I was talking about him with Gnome active. And he does have high defense, otherwise all those monsters that actually did hit for real, all of them having been stated to have incredible strength, would have splattered him with ease. And yes, I did took a punch from the giant golem without Gnome active.
That or the monsters are all actually weaklings.
EDIT : You know, I remembered something. Aren't Heroic Spirits suppose to be the BEST version of the individual they represent ? Wouldn't that give us some, ah, wiggling room when making those Servants profile ?
That or the monsters are all actually weaklings.
EDIT : You know, I remembered something. Aren't Heroic Spirits suppose to be the BEST version of the individual they represent ? Wouldn't that give us some, ah, wiggling room when making those Servants profile ?
In the case of Alice, what the Monster Lord is renowned for is her incredible MAGICAL power. Her physical prowess is rarely, if ever, brought up. That would actually make a case for her strength to be proportionally even LOWER than it actually is, since her legend wouldn't hint at it being anything special.
People like Granberia, who were capable of laying waste to whole armies, have well-documented feats of strength, on the other hand, and some were even exaggerated.
And Alma would arguably get a power BOOST, what with her moonlighting as an undefeated Arena fighter and all.
This guy would either be the strongest or the weakest of the Servants, depending on whether or not anyone figured out the weak point of all his NPs.
Servant Lancer: Arlen Bales, the Warded Man
Noble Phantasms:
The Warded Man: His entire body is covered with tattooed runes. If struck with magic (Or magical weapons/creatures), not only will they repel the attack, they will drain prana from the attack and use it to enhance his strength and speed until the prana is used up. They are weakened if covered with something (Which is why he goes into battle wearing only a loincloth) and if they are damaged, then they provide no protection over the area the broken rune covered. They provide no protection against non-magical weapons.
Combat Wards: He carries multiple warded spears and a bow with warded arrows. These weapons drain prana from whatever they strike and use it to increase the damage they inflict. He is capable of making more if they are lost and destroyed. The wards have no effect on anything with negligible prana reserves, such as non-mages.
Twilight Dancer: Arlen's warhorse is covered with the same defensive runes as Arlen himself. His hooves and horned bridle are engraved with the combat wards used on his weapons. Said wards have the same powers and weaknesses described in the previous NPs.
Servant Lancer: Arlen Bales, the Warded Man
Noble Phantasms:
The Warded Man: His entire body is covered with tattooed runes. If struck with magic (Or magical weapons/creatures), not only will they repel the attack, they will drain prana from the attack and use it to enhance his strength and speed until the prana is used up. They are weakened if covered with something (Which is why he goes into battle wearing only a loincloth) and if they are damaged, then they provide no protection over the area the broken rune covered. They provide no protection against non-magical weapons.
Combat Wards: He carries multiple warded spears and a bow with warded arrows. These weapons drain prana from whatever they strike and use it to increase the damage they inflict. He is capable of making more if they are lost and destroyed. The wards have no effect on anything with negligible prana reserves, such as non-mages.
Twilight Dancer: Arlen's warhorse is covered with the same defensive runes as Arlen himself. His hooves and horned bridle are engraved with the combat wards used on his weapons. Said wards have the same powers and weaknesses described in the previous NPs.
Servant Caster: Sally Faye Vierra (Answers to Faye), the Spellbound
Noble Phantasms:
Cog: In most areas, she is intelligent but uneducated, but in one specific field, she is a supergenius. That field is magical theory. This has enabled her to figure out how to change her origin to use other fields of magic at will (She says that magic is like a sheet of paper that is folded up like a piece of origami in every person in a different way, which determines how they can use power. She just unfolds and refolds her sheet to be what she wants. Nobody else has been able to understand this theory well enough to try it). The types of magic she is able to perform when doing this are (Note that with one exception she is untrained in using said magic, so she would not be able to use it as effectively as a magus whose natural affinity is in this area):
Translation
Animal Control
Creating Explosions
Reinforcement
Electrokinesis
Phasing through matter
Summoning familiar spirits
Precognition (Not precise enough to be useful in combat. It basically shows a dozen or more possible outcomes from a given point, rather than a definite prediction of what will happen)
Healing
Gravity Manipulation
Cryokinesis
Lie detection
Necromancy (Would not actually use this without an order from a Command Seal)
Probability Manipulation (Not entirely reliable)
Altering own physical density/shape/appearance
Telekinesis
Jedi Mind Trick
Inducing illness (Would not actually use this without order from a Command Seal)
Telepathy
Pyrokinesis
Weather Manipulation
Teleportation - Only magic Faye is trained in. At default power levels she can teleport herself, what she's carrying, and up to one other person a few hundred meters. With Spellbound enhancement (Described below) she can teleport herself anywhere in the world, or take a large transport and everyone in it thousands of kilometers. If there is anything where she comes out, it will be imbedded in her body when she appears, with potentially lethal results (Though she knows this and takes care that she teleports to areas free of foreign objects, which actually makes it impossible for her to teleport into any place with large amounts of dust or other debris in the air). Her skill at teleporting in, attacking with a conventional weapon, and teleporting out within seconds makes it easy for her to be mistaken for Assassin.
Spellbound: Faye absorbs prana from anyone who dies in her immediate vicinity, regardless of who killed them or how. This is an instinctive power that cannot be turned off, though she would not kill people purely to gain power without being ordered with a Command Seal. There is no known upper limit to how much power she can absorb this way, but if she's someplace where enough people are dying to get her significant amounts of power, she's likely in a situation where she'll need to use most of it in short order.
Noble Phantasms:
Cog: In most areas, she is intelligent but uneducated, but in one specific field, she is a supergenius. That field is magical theory. This has enabled her to figure out how to change her origin to use other fields of magic at will (She says that magic is like a sheet of paper that is folded up like a piece of origami in every person in a different way, which determines how they can use power. She just unfolds and refolds her sheet to be what she wants. Nobody else has been able to understand this theory well enough to try it). The types of magic she is able to perform when doing this are (Note that with one exception she is untrained in using said magic, so she would not be able to use it as effectively as a magus whose natural affinity is in this area):
Translation
Animal Control
Creating Explosions
Reinforcement
Electrokinesis
Phasing through matter
Summoning familiar spirits
Precognition (Not precise enough to be useful in combat. It basically shows a dozen or more possible outcomes from a given point, rather than a definite prediction of what will happen)
Healing
Gravity Manipulation
Cryokinesis
Lie detection
Necromancy (Would not actually use this without an order from a Command Seal)
Probability Manipulation (Not entirely reliable)
Altering own physical density/shape/appearance
Telekinesis
Jedi Mind Trick
Inducing illness (Would not actually use this without order from a Command Seal)
Telepathy
Pyrokinesis
Weather Manipulation
Teleportation - Only magic Faye is trained in. At default power levels she can teleport herself, what she's carrying, and up to one other person a few hundred meters. With Spellbound enhancement (Described below) she can teleport herself anywhere in the world, or take a large transport and everyone in it thousands of kilometers. If there is anything where she comes out, it will be imbedded in her body when she appears, with potentially lethal results (Though she knows this and takes care that she teleports to areas free of foreign objects, which actually makes it impossible for her to teleport into any place with large amounts of dust or other debris in the air). Her skill at teleporting in, attacking with a conventional weapon, and teleporting out within seconds makes it easy for her to be mistaken for Assassin.
Spellbound: Faye absorbs prana from anyone who dies in her immediate vicinity, regardless of who killed them or how. This is an instinctive power that cannot be turned off, though she would not kill people purely to gain power without being ordered with a Command Seal. There is no known upper limit to how much power she can absorb this way, but if she's someplace where enough people are dying to get her significant amounts of power, she's likely in a situation where she'll need to use most of it in short order.