Naruto Shinobi Combat

BukkakeNoJutsu

Well-Known Member
#1
I just submitted this TLDR review (review below after asterixes) to the newest chapter of the Naruto/Sekirei Story the Ninth Shinobi Pillar and thought some of the points might make for good discussing.

It is not a great story, but it is diverting enough to pass the time.

Base point is that a lot of Naruto crossovers and non-crossovers too don't account for how dangerous basic canon shinobi abilities are. When Naruto often gets transplanted into a new world, many writers tend to rely on bullshit mega-techniques rather than fundamental and functional shinobi combat.

1) What writers or stories do shinobi combat well?

I think folks like D. Gudman, fosfor, and Geor-sama do solid jobs with shinobi fundamentals. Can you guys discuss any others? There are a bunch of stories, but my frazzled mind can only conjure authors right now.

2) What points of shinobi combat would you like to see emphasized more in fanfiction?

**********
Review
**********

I hope you have Naruto go on a bloody fucking rampage after he looks after Musubi. And please don't let it be just with fancy new wind jutsus, Kyuubi's chakra, or sage mode.

You are sorely underestimating what Naruto can do even with basic canon abilities. He is an expert in hand-to-hand combat, knife fighting, thrown weapons, and asymmetrical warfare. He is super-strong, fast, and durable. He can stick to and scale almost any surface. His stamina and healing are second to none. He can replicate himself perfectly and coordinate with his clones flawlessly, learning what they know when they disperse and fighting with that knowledge on the fly. Him and his clones can transform into animate and inanimate objects including thrown weapons. He can imitate anyone's voice and physical appearance making him a nightmare for anyone trying to secure an area or lockdown a building.

When you say he's a one trick pony, you aren't using his baseline canon abilities to their full extent. A brick, a rock, a table, a desk, your lover, or your most trusted lieutenant could be Naruto or one of his clones, and he can make multiple clones in your blinds spots and switch positions with them instantaneously. Give the boy a little credit in combat. I hope you include this kind of influence in fights later in the story.

Naruto when he puts his mind to it is a frightening opponent already, even without adding summoning, wind element apptitude, rasengan mastery, sage taijutsu with its invisible range, sage strength, kyuubi limbs, bijuu-damas, and the ability to sense people in sage mode.

********
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#2
I love it when Naruto gets creative with basic jutsu and ninja weapons rather than just using the brute force of the Kyuubi or whipping out the biggest rasengan or clone horde he is capable of it. My favorite example of this was that exploding-kunai-up-the-ass trick he used on Gaara - using a few clones as meat-shields, impromptu smoke bombs and human springboards to slip behind the opponent unnoticed so he could shove the ninja equivalent of a hand grenade up their anus. Just imagine how brutal a technique like that would be on a normal person instead of a half-transformed jinchuuriki!

I really wish there was a canonical explanation for one virtually no one ever uses henge to get the drop on people in combat. I suspect that every ninja academy has classes devoted entirely to casual observation and memory training, so most ninja can instinctively notice when someone is acting the slightest bit unusual and subconsciously pick out the tiniest imperfections in a transformation. That could explain why that rain-nin in the Forest of Death and Shikamaru were immediately outed when they tried to use henge for that purpose, and why no one else ever tries it because most ninja are simply to well trained to ever fall for it.

Although... if Naruto were ever teleported to a fantasy setting where fighters aren't typically trained to Sherlock-ian levels of observation skills, he might recognize that and start abusing the shit out of henge against the poor bastards.
 

TC_Hazard

Well-Known Member
#3
Honestly, I'd settle for seeing authors remember that any ninja is supposed to be super strong, durable and fast. Most of the time it's like they are talking about regular humans.

Edit: Also, the whole "You don't actually know how to fight" bit that gets repeated way too often. Just because you don't have a fancy named style with named moves doesn't mean you don't know hand to hand combat.

Seriously, there is zero way for a kid that fights as much as Naruto to not be good at hand to hand.
 

Dunstan

Well-Known Member
#4
This thread is reminding me of...

<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8355614/1/The-Warriors-Three' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8355614/1/The-Warriors-Three</a>

This story.... :(

A perfectly good story... Rendered nearly unreadable to me by just how nurfed the ninjas are made for the sake of the "plot"..... :sweat2:


Heres an idea, if you don't want post-Kurama-friendship-Naruto to easily kill that army over there, rather then him just choosing not to for.... Some reason, why don't you try.... Just not putting him anywhere near it in the first place. :sisi:
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#5
TC_Hazard said:
Edit: Also, the whole "You don't actually know how to fight" bit that gets repeated way too often. Just because you don't have a fancy named style with named moves doesn't mean you don't know hand to hand combat.

Seriously, there is zero way for a kid that fights as much as Naruto to not be good at hand to hand.
To be fair, compared to other ninja Naruto really did suck at taijutsu until he trained with Jiraiya. In the first databook Sakura was the only genin with worse martial arts skills than Naruto. He had to compensate for his crappy taijutsu with clones and clever tricks to fight pretty much anyone else hand-to-hand.
 

TC_Hazard

Well-Known Member
#6
Altered Nova said:
TC_Hazard said:
Edit: Also, the whole "You don't actually know how to fight" bit that gets repeated way too often. Just because you don't have a fancy named style with named moves doesn't mean you don't know hand to hand combat.

Seriously, there is zero way for a kid that fights as much as Naruto to not be good at hand to hand.
To be fair, compared to other ninja Naruto really did suck at taijutsu until he trained with Jiraiya. In the first databook Sakura was the only genin with worse martial arts skills than Naruto. He had to compensate for his crappy taijutsu with clones and clever tricks to fight pretty much anyone else hand-to-hand.
The guy had like a B in taijutsu or so according to academy grades IIRC.

And databook stats suck.

His actual fights were pretty good if unorthodox. And let's face it, Lee's (and Gai later) the only guy that goes full hand to hand. Everyone else is always mixing it up with some jutsu.

edit: Neji also goes full hand to hand I guess... thought at the level the difference is kind of non existent. Same for people using the Gates now that I think of it.
 

whitewhiskey

Well-Known Member
#7
Personally, I think of Naruto in a fight like Mugen from Samurai Champloo, he has strength and is near impossible to kill. He is also somewhat observant of his surroundings. But, at the same time, he moves on instinct and while it makes his movements harder to predict, with little to no planning and a "by the seat of my pants" attitude, it also means he can be outsmarted.

Now, Naruto has gotten better after the timeskip with in battle planning, but he also has more emotional attachment, which can distract him at the worst times, even send him off the handle.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#8
Naruto isn't bad at taijutsu, he's just lacking in comparison to most of his peers because they're more oriented towards it. Kiba and Hinata are both taijutsu users, Chouji's a nintaijutsu fighter, Sasuke's the top rookie, Lee's a taijutsu specialist and Neji's a taijutsu genius. It's a bit like how Sakura's the normal kid among these guys, Naruto's above-average but is only average in comparison to his peers.

Me, I'd like to see more focus on fighting alongside his clones. He does it already but I just wanna see more. Having them recon the battlefield, throw weapons from a distance, use combination moves, abuse Henge and Kawarimi and throw some other clones techs which could be ones we've already seen or some original ones.

I think Shezza and digitaltart pull off some good fights, though the latter deliberately nerfs ninja in how sturdy they are.
 
#9
actually, Kiba is a Nintaijutsu user, as well.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#10
Point. I forget he has to (or just chooses to) enhance his body beforehand.
 
#11
I like it when authors realize that even with superspeed and superstrength, humans only weigh so much and are still vulnerable to the dread god Physics. Jim Butcher's pretty good at it, as is the guy running Blatant Fetish Quest over on /tg/.

Ninjas get away with more of it, because they can use chakra to increase "friction" by tree-walking on the ground, but still.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#12
It would really change mid air combat, though the Tsuchikage can cheat.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#13
I dunno, ninja seem to have ways of making momentum and inertia their bitch with chakra. Like when those four ANBU all jumped at Orochimaru and the Sound Four put up that barrier while they were in mid-air and only feet away from it - only one of them hit the barrier, the other three magically came to an instant stop and landed right in front of it.

Also when Lee was fighting Gaara and opened the gates, that dude seemed to be jumping off of thin air like a boss. Plus there's all those ninja that can straight up fly.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#14
I thought that ANBU guy was just moving faster and further than the others so he jumped again before the rest landed.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#15
Hard to tell since it all happens in so few panels, but it definitely looks like they were all moving about the same to me. Actually the guy that hit the barrier was slightly behind the ANBU captain in the white cloak.



The orientation of their bodies makes it look like they're still moving forward and upwards, not coming down for a landing. They must have told physics to fuck off in some way.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#16
I think the angle's to blame; it looks like the roof is all the on the same level instead of being tiered. Given the height of the section they're aiming for and where the barrier's boundary actually is, I think they jumped enough to land safely except the guy who overcompensated.

But then on the next page, the other guy looks like his death is imminent but he apparently handles it.
 

Yorae Rasante

Well-Known Member
#17
maybe they can use chakra to make a small "wind bullet" too weak and quick for much uses besides as a quick stopper/double jump ledge?
of course there is absolutely no hint of this in canon, this is 100% speculation because I like imagining reasons for double-jump and DMC's is one of my favorites
 

Knyght

The Collector
#18
A standard, non-offensive version of the Hyuuga's Air Palm? You can probably do something like that if you're chakra control's good enough since Sakura once 'exploded' off the ground when fighting Ino. Maybe you can do that in mid-air.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
#19
As exploding off of surfaces is a side-effect of bad chakra control it could obviously be used on purpose.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#20
The important factor being the difference between exploding off a surfaces and exploding off of the air.

-knight504
 
#21
zeebee1 said:
As exploding off of surfaces is a side-effect of bad chakra control it could obviously be used on purpose.
That's the basis of Sakura's Megaton Punch(and the Third Raikage's Lightning Finger)
 

Knyght

The Collector
#22
The Raikage's is like Kakashi's Raikiri, it's focused in the hand but doesn't explode.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#23
knight504 said:
The Raikage's is like Kakashi's Raikiri, it's focused in the hand but doesn't explode.
That's why it's weird in retrospect that when Sasuke tried to chidori the Raikage he exclaimed "That's Kakashi Hatake's trick!". You'd think he'd say instead "That's a wussy version of my father's jutsu!"
 
#24
actually, Kakashi's trick is using the Raiton forcefield to augment the penetrative power of his hand. To stab better.
the Third Raikage's didn't need any additional penetration other than his own physical strength.
Which is likely why the Raikage did refer to it as "Kakashi's TRICK" and not "Kakashi's technique"

In the end, the basic concept is the same: concentrating chakra in a single point. Execution vary, with Chidori preferring the stabbing, Sakura's jutsu preferring the explosion and the Hell Thrust using both
 

Knyght

The Collector
#25
The Hell Stab doesn't explode, dude. Difference between Kakashi and the Third's is that the former concentrates chakra in the whole hand whilst the latter concentrates chakra in the fingertips. Sakura does the former (without any spatial recomposition) and blasts it out of her fist upon impact. You could say that the result is rather explosive but that would apply to the Chidori/Raikiri too which can cause a lot of destruction when used on rocks and walls.
 
Top