Nasuverse Silver Eyed Knight

[zerohour]

Moved from Random Ideas. The basic idea is that Shiro somehow ends up in the Claymore world.

Issues do deal with:
-how he gets there: Probably Kaleidoscope accident, or twisted Grail wish. Not too important, but I'd rather make it plausible.

-When he gets there: Theresa, Claire, or Clarissa era. Probably one of the first two, since it allows him

-Balancing: In Random, we discovered that Noble Phantasms are pretty game breaking, especially since Claymore doesn't really have much magic.



Related posts:

Post Grail War, Shiro ends up in the Claymore world some how.

Claymore would be interesting, with Shirou being close to normal physically, at least compared to the Claymores, but with an arsenal of Noble Phantasms that match up to their swords. More so still if something happens like he found the original Kanshou and Bakuya, and uses them with their anti-monster properties to take down an Awakened Being or even one of the Abyssals. If he's gotten to the point where his hair and eyes have changed color like Archer, he might be able to pass himself of as one. And in response to rumors of a male Claymore walking around, killing the shit out of any yoma and Awakened Being he comes across, the organization sends out someone to investigate. Really, what all happens would depend largely on when in Claymore-verse he shows up: Teresa's time, Clare's, or Clarisse's.

I'm starting to warm up to the claymore cross now... Shiro has a couple of different paths he could take.

he could be the lone warrior, he could form his own version of the organization, he could team up with the claymores. The possibilities are endless, and that's not even factoring in what era that he appears in.

Hm... using Holy and Demonic weapons could have some interesting effects on how peopel percieve him, especially the organization. Using Gae Bolg or Gram might cause them to see him as an awakened being, while using Excalibur or some other holy weapon... Hm..

Not necessarily. After all, the entire male generation of Claymores awakened. I don't think it's that implausible to say that in the midst of the awakenings, they were probably trying to rush and fill the missing slots, and there's probably not information on them all. If it's during Clarice's period, easy theory for the organization to come up with: during the chaos of the male awakenings, he went through, not standing out, as one of many replacements, then disappeared, was presumed dead or awakened, and largely ignored because he wasn't a big deal like Isley, Rigald, or Dauf, then resurfaced with the deaths of the Abyssals.

And if they saw how he did stuff, sure, they might not make that mistake, but just to see the destruction left by some Noble Phantasms, without knowing the source? Or to see the effects he could achieve with a sword? With things like the Quick-Sword, it would make more sense to them to think it's some technique he's using, rather than think it's the weapons.

Too bad the actual swords are probably made with something not native to Gaia, and he doesn't have yoki to use things like the Quick-Sword. Although, come to think of it, to an observer, would the style Shirou picked up from Archer look like Teresa's yoki reading trick? Might be an interesting comparison for someone to make.

Two last points to bring up. Just to point out, the mysterious enemy nation uses dragons. Gram is an anti-dragon weapon. And, as a perspective issue, how would Shirou react to some of the ethical issues that crop up? Like how the Claymores are forbidden to kill humans, even in self-defense, or the idea that always gets brought up in fics involving Awakened Beings: one that lives off bandits, and other people that it's not implausible that Shirou himself would kill to save people. Said theoretical AB is eating humans, but they're bad humans, and if it doesn't eat them, it starves. I admit, I bring up the idea largely because I adore Priscilla and Luciella, and, to a much lesser extent, Riful and Isley.

Another thought for Claymore: One of the Swords Shiro gets is Durandal, which can grant three miracles.

Restoring an Awakened being to their Claymore, or even Human form would be pretty miraculous, wouldn't you say?

Edit: As for the Claymore swords, I highly doubt that Shiro wouldn't be able to replicate them, from a plot point of view. Pretty much all Noble Phantasms are equally, if not more indestructable. The only real benefit to tracing Claymores would be to replicate the skills of their users, which again, has limited usefulness, since he has the weapons of actual legend, and can probably match or exceed most of the skills with them. They would probably be D-Rank Noble Phantasms at best, since their only real quality is incredible toughness.


Unnatural strength: Reinforcement. May not be able to match them when they start drawing heavily on their Yoma power, but enough for most cases, and his weaponry makes up the difference.

Quick Sword: Nine Lives Blade Works. Not only does it match the speed, but each blow is lethal.

Shadow Blade: Gae Bolg Autohit, and pierces the heart. Or NLBW.

Jean's super piercing attack: Any high ranked Noble Phantasm ought to do it. Again, NLBW.

Actually, Nine Lives blade works is probably enough to handle pretty much anything. I don't think I've seen a fic where Shiro goes around using that as his primary weapon. Only thing it might not bee effective against is high level Awakened beings or mass numbers.

As far as using Nine Lives as his primary weapon, there is Faker. And, actually, I think it'd be great to see him use it against Dauf. Incredibly tough Awakened Being, virtually impossible to break through his skin...and then Shirou pulls out Berserker's giant ax-sword. One Nine-Lives Bladeworks later, and there is a very gruesome pile of gore where there was once a large monster. Also, Riful just shit herself.

Three miracles, huh...three Abyssals? But, then, if they wanted to, they could just awaken again. Or go with the idea that Luciella wants her sister back, return Luci, and see where things go. Plus, a lot of Priscilla's issues came about because of her awakening. In fact, wasn't that her reason for going after Clare? That Clare smelled like Teresa, and Priscilla hated Teresa because she (Teresa) scared her so much that she (Priscilla) awakened, and Priscilla actually hates what she's become? Or am I mixing up something else with canon?

With that, use one of Durandal's miracles on Luciella and one on Priscilla. Then, if you use the idea that Raphaela would go against the organization for her sister, Shirou gets a former number one and two former number twos, one of whom would have been a number one. I also favor Priscilla being childish and clinging to Shirou, since he saved her, and I find her acting that way to be adorable.

Plus, there has to be an archery competition between Shirou and Isley, because it would be cool.

Keep in mind he can retrace Durandal, which gives him a whole new set of miracles each time.

As for Shiro and Isley, i did write something up for that, though not an archery competition. That could be fun though, especially if Shiro accuses Isley of cheating but manipulating his arrows after shooting them.

Another random thought: Claymores Awaken when they exceed the proportion of youki they can safely channel, right? So, obviously, the best way to stop a Claymore from Awakening is to increase the power of their human side. You know what that means?

Prana transfer rituals! tongue.gif

 

[nick012000]

If Shirou arrives at the start of the manga, he might well be able to save Elena to start off with. Just take her into the nearby ruin on the mountain, and it's prana transfer time!

He might also be able to alter things by providing enough assistance to Claire in the church that she doesn't need to almost-awaken to win, though if he manages to stop Elena from Awakening, the Organization might well send them both on the Awakened Being hunt anyway, along with Elena.

And, of course, there's the possibility of Shirou training Raki as a magus. Shirou might not be a very good mage by nasuverse standards, but he ought to at least be able to teach Raki how to awaken his Magic Circuits and use basic analytical magic and reinforcement alongside his swordplay. Then throw in whatever magic Raki might get from his Origin; your Origin is related to your death, and IIRC in canon Raki got impaled by one of the Awakened twins' bolts, so who knows what that might be.

Hmm. You know, I wonder if teaching a Claymore to open their Magic Circuits would allow them to use more Youki without Awakening. Obviously they'd already have the Circuits in the Youma flesh open when they start using their powers, but if they've got the human circuits open as well...

EDIT: After thinking about it, maybe Claire's Origin would be "Union" or "Fusion"? It sort of makes sense, considering how she died in canon (fusing with another Awakened being and committing suicide), and how she wound up fusing with the bodies of both of her teachers (Teresa to become a Claymore, and the other one to replace a lost arm). Naturally, this would give her a natural talent at tantric rituals and with Alteration magic intended to combine two different objects or substances, like combining the body of her enemy with the air around it to weaken its armor, or fusing her own body with the air to increase her speed and fluidity (or improving the bond between her human flesh and her Claymore flesh, allowing her to go even closer to Awakening than she could in canon). Maybe even accessing the Origins of those Claymores whose flesh has been fused with her.

 

[He-who-voted-for-Kodos]

Wouldn't bringing Origins in really screw with stuff? It says on the wiki that when someone awakens to their Origin, it becomes almost a compulsion. Would it really be reasonable to bring that kind of weirdness in?

Plus, after the seven year skip, Raki has reached pretty much the pinnacle of what a human could do, just off human abilities, and he takes down yoma with no effort and fights the twin trainees that do the controlled awakening to a draw. Just with Reinforcement to be able to match their strength and speed, he'd be roughly the equivalent of a Claymore, just without the regeneration or some of their more unusual abilities. Much more than that would only really be necessary to deal with stronger Claymores and Awakened Beings, and to expect any human at all to be able to fight enemies like that is a little insane. Shirou is the exception, not the norm. Plus, expecting Shirou to be able to teach much more than the basics of how magecraft works, Reinforcement, Projection, and maybe Alteration seems a little outside his abilities. All that presupposes that Raki even possesses the potential for magecraft.

And for a time for Shirou to enter, maybe during the four-on-one fight while the organization was hunting Teresa or during Priscilla's rampage heading north?

 

[trevelyan1983]

The problem with most Yoma isn't fighting or killing them. It's finding them. That's how the organisation cornered the market.

 

[daniel_gudman]

Shirou's pretty sensitive to that kind of thing though? "Unnatural phenomena." He can't detect prana any more than average, but when there's something wrong, he can sense it.

Anyway that's a good angle; Shirou can splat pretty much any monster but he has a relatively tough time finding them. I mean, there are probably a couple ways he can get around that, but I think Shirou struggling to identify Youma would be a good thing for the story.

 

[trevelyan1983]

It's kind of ironic - the small fry slip right on by, but the big fish? Everyone knows exactly where they are - they just can't kill them.

Oh U Abyssal Ones.

 

[He-who-voted-for-Kodos]

They also don't even pretend like they're seriously trying to hide themselves. They might put forth a token effort, if it's not too much work, but otherwise, why bother? Then again, wasn't Renee actually unable to sense Priscilla until Priscilla grabbed her? Sort of a, blind to something too powerful for her to comprehend?

Maybe Shirou's ability to sense them depends on the power involved. If it's your average yoma, disguised and hiding in a crowd, he can tell that it's there, but not anything more specific. Much stronger than that, like a Claymore or regular Awakened Beings, he can sense specifically. The very strongest, the number ones, the Abyssals, and the strongest Awakened Beings (i.e. Dauf, Rigald, Agatha, etc.) he can sense in their human forms, but if they transform, the stronger power blinds him to others. Like if Shirou fought Isley and Isley transformed, he would cover up Rigald's presence.

And Priscilla and the Destroyer could be kind of like Berserker and Angra Mainyu. One that is such insane power that he interprets it almost certain death, and the other is simply wrong.

As alternatives, maybe Shirou picks up someone to do for him what Priscilla was doing for Raki after the timeskip, or he pulls Gilgamesh's original Golden Sword of Detecting Organ-Devouring Monsters from Unlimited Blade Works and uses that to find them.

 

[deviatesfish]

So who's writing this?

 

[pptp78ec]

Seconded.

So we'll have Shirou from the HF route? Or from the UBW route?

And BTW, what golden sword that Gil have? Could you elaborate please?

 

[Wilder]

I'd say go with UBW route, it's generally the easiest to do crossovers with from what I've seen.

 

[zerohour]

UBW seems like the route to go with. Plus, it has potential of bringing in Rin and Saber if such a thing is desired, since they'll probably look for him.

I'm thinking a good time to arrive in the Claymore world wold be when Theresa was Number One. It provides an opportunity for Shiro to end up as Claire's father/big brother figure. Once Priscilla awakens, Shiro could be an additional survivor, but given how no one knows about Avalon, they assume he's dead, and he assumes the same of Claire when he comes to.

So Claire goes off to Claymore training, anbd meets up again with Shiro sometime after, and which point he might start teaching her magecraft and swordsmanship.

How's that sound for a start?

 

[Wilder]

I don't know much about Claymore, but that seems to be interesting at least. Hope this doesn't just stay as an idea.

I say good luck.

 

[He-who-voted-for-Kodos]

Seconded.

So we'll have Shirou from the HF route? Or from the UBW route?

And BTW, what golden sword that Gil have? Could you elaborate please?

It's a joke, based on Gil's armor and treasury. Since his thing is that he was the original owner of the original forms of almost every Noble Phantasm, that developed into the joke that he has what he refers to as the original of everything. And since he has that nice gold armor and the nickname Kinpika, the joke evolved into his originals all being gold. I think it came from Teach Us, Gil-Sensei!, where Gil's narration references his "Original Bed," which was terribly uncomfortable as it was solid gold. As for him having a sword for that, it's one of the other jokes about him, that since he has so many Noble Phantasms, he's got one to do practically anything you could think of.

As for Shirou being around in Teresa's time, wasn't Irene just left lying there minus an arm after Priscilla took off? Could lead to them meeting and interacting. "How are you still alive? And why are there swords sticking out of your wounds?" One possible place for Clare and Shirou to meet again.

Come to think of it, if Shirou spends years killing yoma and Awakened Beings, wouldn't it make sense for rumors to start to spread about someone outside the Claymores who kills them? Then he would seem like an alternative for Rabona, and could be brought in by the guards. I think they knew there was a yoma, but not about the priest going to the organization, so that would be a way for Clare and Shirou to meet back up.

Will Shirou get the idea to try using Durandal's miracles to revert an Awakened Being? It would have to be after Priscilla killed Teresa, since if he thought of it before, he could just do that for her and preempt the entire thing.

If Shirou is good at sensing Claymores, would he notice Priscilla before she joins in the attack on Teresa? I can't really see Shirou killing her as she was before awakening, with her fairly immature nature. With her view that Claymores absolutely should not kill humans and that Teresa's death is perfectly justified, what does she do when a human fights against them to protect her, and even endorses the deaths of some humans? After awakening, how does the terror that Priscilla becomes remember the human who defeated her as a Claymore, and readily stood against her after awakening, knowing perfectly well how dangerous she was, just to save people? What does she think of the man who defeated her and tried to change her mind, compared to the terror she feels towards Teresa, who dominated and nearly killed her, without mercy? Why,yes, Priscilla is my favorite Claymore character, how did you guess?

I also thought about it, and Nine Lives Bladeworks is actually probably one of the best options Shirou has to fight Awakened Beings and Claymores. Yoma aren't that smart, so it would probably be fairly easy for Shirou to use Kanshou and Bakuya to take their heads, but an Awakened Being would take a lot more effort to kill, so short of a Crane Wing Three Realms or the original anti-monster ones, K&B probably aren't so useful. They'd also be fine fighting a Claymore without intending to kill them. But, as was pointed out when Clare, Jean, and Galatea were fighting Dauf, it's actually easier to re-attach limbs than to fix them after they've been crushed. Presumably, this is equally true for all Claymores and Awakened Beings. What weapon does Shirou have that would be good at crushing an opponents bones and is the way he has access to a technique that strikes multiple fatal blows in an instant? It just seems like a better, less destructive alternative to fighting Awakened Beings than using Broken Phantasms.

 

[shout27]

Well, one thing to remember IMO, is that Noble Phantasms and Mystical Codexes are weapons reliant on the myth, faith, and mystery that gave rise to their legends to grant whatever powers they grant. Some weapons most likely never granted any particular 'power' but rather became associated with that power because the being that used it, used it with that particular weapon. . .

What I'm trying to say is that some of the techniques used by Claymores, particularly the legendary ones, could conceivably be used by Shirou in a copy of the weapon in question. Provided, of course, that he sees the proper legendary relic, the holy city in the manga that refused to call for help from Claymores, being an example of a place that might have suitable legends.

Something else to keep in mind, is something that's mentioned in 'The Summer King' that Elvarein is working on, is the matter of 'soul density' which could potentially be a way to set the base conflict level. . . mostly because from what I understand is that it sets the baseline abilities of any given creature. In the fic, Shirou could theoretically be at a 75% average in ability/stats, compared to a a normal human and with full reinforcement be at 150% base power compared to a normal human. This could be pretty bad for his base capabilities compared to yoma and claymores if becoming half-yoma is an artificial way to increase soul density (if yoma are naturally denser souls than humans) in addition to getting access to youki. Personally, I would bank that being an A.B. further focuses soul density, if the writer decides to use soul density as the base line for getting an idea of comparable power.

These are just some things that could be used to enhance the story if applied correctly IMO. As always, feel free to ream me a new one if I screwed up my facts, or accidentally included fanon background info from Type-moon that doesn't canonically exist or that I misunderstood.

 

[nick012000]

Personally, what I would say is that becoming a Claymore is like what happened to Shirou with Archer's arm, except that instead of getting your mind obliterated and going comatose, you just get overwhelmed by its instincts as the swords/yoma flesh overtakes your body. The power boost from becoming a Claymore is from having its active Magic Circuits grafted into your body, like some sort of demonic Magic Crest, and the power boost from becoming an Awakened Being possibly comes from when it takes over your human flesh and turns the human Magic Circuits into more Youma Magic Circuits.

One way to stop this from being an all-Shirou curbstomp is for those extra Magic Circuits the Yoma possess to allow them to throw around a lot more raw magical power than Shirou does.

Wouldn't bringing Origins in really screw with stuff? It says on the wiki that when someone awakens to their Origin, it becomes almost a compulsion. Would it really be reasonable to bring that kind of weirdness in?

Does it? I don't remember Ryougi Shiki doing particularly compelled to do "nothingness" related things, or Shirou being compelled to do "sword" related things. It's just that their personalities already predisposed them to acting that way to begin with.

 

[Garlak]

Personally, what I would say is that becoming a Claymore is like what happened to Shirou with Archer's arm, except that instead of getting your mind obliterated and going comatose, you just get overwhelmed by its instincts as the swords/yoma flesh overtakes your body. The power boost from becoming a Claymore is from having its active Magic Circuits grafted into your body, like some sort of demonic Magic Crest, and the power boost from becoming an Awakened Being possibly comes from when it takes over your human flesh and turns the human Magic Circuits into more Youma Magic Circuits.

One way to stop this from being an all-Shirou curbstomp is for those extra Magic Circuits the Yoma possess to allow them to throw around a lot more raw magical power than Shirou does.

Wouldn't bringing Origins in really screw with stuff? It says on the wiki that when someone awakens to their Origin, it becomes almost a compulsion. Would it really be reasonable to bring that kind of weirdness in?

Does it? I don't remember Ryougi Shiki doing particularly compelled to do "nothingness" related things, or Shirou being compelled to do "sword" related things. It's just that their personalities already predisposed them to acting that way to begin with.

Actually Shirou is a bad example because his Origin DOES mess him up. His selfless saving people thing? Origin-based; he is a sword meant to strike down evil and perserve lives, and that's how he defines himself.




Anyway... Isn't Nine Lives an Anti-Phantasmal Being Noble Phantasm? That makes it even better for this.


Especially since, if Shirou focuses on it enough and learns it from the Axesword, he can then start applying it to use with other weapons. After all, he learns it from the sword, he then knows Nine Lives.


Remember that Nine Lives is described as a fighting style -- usable with fists, shield, sword, e.t.c. But ultimately it's an ARCHERY technique. If Archer can twist SWORDS into ARROWS or just straight-up SHOOT swords, then using Nine Lives to perform Shooting Hundred Heads (how it originally was used I believe) seems a simple step.


Also... one of the greatest, and scariest, abilities about weapon-based psychometry? Not just borrowing the enemy's strength and technique (though actually I dont think psychometry generally does that) -- but also analyzing it. Look at a weapon. See how it's been used. Find holes and counters to its user.


Shirou can be one scary guy.

 

[He-who-voted-for-Kodos]

From TM Wiki:

If a person becomes awakened to their Origin, it becomes nearly impossible to stray from their Origin if it's even possible in the first place. It becomes an impulsive behavior one would follow as though it were an absolute order.

And the main one I was thinking of was the one I remembered someone mentioning, the guy whose Origin was "Consumption" and wound up eating people.

That is a good point about Nine Lives. It's actually one of the most versatile (and through that versatility, broken) Noble Phantasms there is. Not as flashy as Excalibur or Ea, or as precise and efficient as Gae Bolg, but in its own way, so much better. After all, if Shirou could master Nine Lives without having to project Heracles' skill, he could use it with some other Noble Phantasm, like Gram. And for the using it in the original form, with a bow: for maximum brokenness, instead of arrows, Broken Grams. Anything that survives that deserves to live.

 

[nick012000]

Heh. Or he could go and alter the form from an axe-sword to a pair of stone gauntlets or something.

As for Noble Phantasm hax: Fragarach. Useless against the Claymores, since their ultimate trump card is Awakening, but against Awakened Beings, whose trump card is their status as Awakened Beings...

Some of them might survive, though, if they can survive the A-ranked fatal wound it inflicts. You know, like Priscilla, who could probably regenerate from a fist-sized hole through her forehead.

As for Origins, it's possible that it just magnifies personality traits you already have. Shirou became even more selfless, Shiki became even more ascetic, and the serial killer dude became even more twisted.

 

[trevelyan1983]

Nick, two things.

First, even in the Nasuverse, some things don't possess magic circuits. In a non-Nasu based world, there is no basis for assuming that magic circuits exist and that they are possessed by both humans and Yoma.

Second, Fragarach doesn't just do small holes. Look at the mess it made of Lancer. That said, Awakened Beings tend to be able to shrug off lots of damage - Fragarach might not be able to get the job done. It also doesn't activate against passive abilities like 'being superhuman'.

 

[nick012000]

Nick, two things.

First, even in the Nasuverse, some things don't possess magic circuits. In a non-Nasu based world, there is no basis for assuming that magic circuits exist and that they are possessed by both humans and Yoma.

Really? I mean, yeah, Shinji apparently doesn't have any Magic Circuits, but that's probably the exception rather than the rule among Nasuverse humans; Kiritsugu said that everyone has the ability to awaken their Origin and perform one sort of magic as a result. In any case, though, it fits with what we've seen of how Claymore magic works, and given the lack of any real detail other than "LOL youma flesh", it'd fit well enough.

Second, Fragarach doesn't just do small holes. Look at the mess it made of Lancer.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Granted.

That said, Awakened Beings tend to be able to shrug off lots of damage - Fragarach might not be able to get the job done. It also doesn't activate against passive abilities like 'being superhuman'.

It works against the Godhand, and it's not like we've ever seen Awakened Beings use any sort of special techniques; it's all just manipulating their Awakened bodies with their baseline powers. It might not work against one who's in their human form, but once they go monstrous...

 

[deviatesfish]

It seems like you are trying to reconcile two different systems of magic/power/mana/something of two different series...

 

[SilverBack354]

I think that in the Nasu-verse that all things with souls have magic circuits just the difference is in if they are active and able to be used or not.