SM in the Marvelverse

[Chuckg]

Wasn't Namor generally an isolationist who didn't want anything to do with surfacedewellers at all, except that his infatuation with Susan Storm or other factors got the best of him like believing that Atlantis being attacked by surfacedwellers?

You might recall that Namor's first attack on the surface world was prompted by the belief that Atlantis had been destroyed by undersea nuclear testing. He was in 'all y'all surfacers gonna die!' mode for a while.

Seriously. Giganto's original mission? Destroy all of NYC. Magneto didn't get around to that level of unprovoked attempted killing until the Grant Morrison run like 50 years later, and that was immediately retconned.

And what reason would Spitfire have to attack Queen Elizabeth then, hmm?

... the example was a tad tongue-in-cheek. The point it illustrates, however, remains; former superheroes suddenly turning on the populace would, logically speaking, gather even greater amounts of anger than a new villain doing the same thing. It's the betrayal thing.

 

[Crusader]

You might recall that Namor's first attack on the surface world was prompted by the belief that Atlantis had been destroyed by undersea nuclear testing. He was in 'all y'all surfacers gonna die!' mode for a while.

Seriously. Giganto's original mission? Destroy all of NYC. Magneto didn't get around to that level of unprovoked attempted killing until the Grant Morrison run like 50 years later, and that was immediately retconned.

Didn't he think that the surfacedwellers had turned on Atlantis after all the things he had done for the Allies during World War II and that he felt so betrayed that he snapped?

Did I mention that Magneto tried blowing up all of Santo Marco when realized he was losing and that the tiny nation could have been of the same size as NYC?

 

[Chuckg]

What are we even arguing about now?

Dialing the issue back to popular perceptions of people in the MU... it makes no sense and never did. (Also, Magneto's actions with the bomb in San Marco were never publicized, so could not have affected public reaction. The only people who knew were the X-Men and the Brotherhood... and if the story did come out, then what would also have come out is that one of the Brotherhood had disarmed the bomb!)

I grant that you have a point that this is an incident of 'Magneto does not care about the population' predating Morrison.

 

[Lord Raine]

As for the Marvel Universe... hey, I totally grant that it sucks watching heroes be emo all the time.

Then I look at the ungrateful bastards they keep saving and who keep trying to lynch them, and sorta understand.áá Sure, the superpowers should be awesome, but the neighbors are total party poopers.

Of course, this is more 'that's just saying the reason why it sucks, that's not saying that it doesn't suck' territory, yes.

Basically, y'all hate most of the Marvel heroes for being emo.áá I hate almost everybody in the MU, hero and non-hero alike, for being all kinds of mental malfunction.áá Seriously.áá They're as rational about superheroes and mutants as the people of Wizarding Britain were rational about Harry Potter... whatever stupid thing the Daily Proph-... errr, Bugle is saying today is immediately seized upon as true and the lynch mobs roll out, even if that same guy was dying for your sins, in front of your own two eyes, just last week.

That's because if the nonmutant population were rational, mutants would have long since been accepted and Marvel writers wouldn't know what to write about.

Which is utterly retarded, seeing how by now they've invented so many cosmic level threats that they're starting to recycle names. OH MY GOD WHAT ARE WE GOING TO SHOW THIS RUN? WE'VE ONLY GOT EIGHTY UNSTOPPABLE ELDRITCH ABOMINATIONS. FUCK IT LET'S BRING PHOENIX BACK AGAIN AND HAVE SCOTT WHINGE. THEN WOLVERINE STABS IT AND SOMEBODY PROTESTS MUTANTS.

Also, I disagree with this completely:

Then I look at the ungrateful bastards they keep saving and who keep trying to lynch them, and sorta understand.

If I had superpowers and the people I kept saving kept being racist about how I can do magic and they can't, or whatever, I wouldn't intensely desire to become one of them.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. At all. Not even close.

For me? One of two things would happen. One, I would keep saving them and not bitch about it, because bitching doesn't solve anything, and I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do, not because I want the general public to suck my ego off (though I'd probably be incredibly snarky and rude about it).

Or two, I would save them one more time, then tell them, publicly, that I am not going to do it again. Then the next time Moldrock The Destroyer escapes his chains and tears a hole through to the Mortal World, they had damn well better be able to take care of themselves, and if they can't, well I guess they're just fucked then, aren't they?

So I'd basically either turn into some sort of Batman-esque hero who does it on principle and is hated, but doesn't give a damn, or I'd become Rorschach.

But at no point would I ever wander the halls of a school full of kids at night half naked screaming about how I wish I was just like the people who are forever and always nonstop racist douchebags and the source of all my not-demon-related problems. Because I'm not fucking brain damaged.

 

[Chuckg]

Oh no, I was saying I understand why heroes would feel depressed; life in the MU generally sucks, no matter who you are.

'Depressed' ain't the same thing as... that.

 

[Crusader]

What are we even arguing about now?

Dunno, maybe our postings got a life of their own.

Dialing the issue back to popular perceptions of people in the MU... it makes no sense and never did. (Also, Magneto's actions with the bomb in San Marco were never publicized, so could not have affected public reaction. The only people who knew were the X-Men and the Brotherhood... and if the story did come out, then what would also have come out is that one of the Brotherhood had disarmed the bomb!)

Didn't the popular percetion of mutants get worse in the 80s and 90s and upwards? And during that time the existance of mutants, other than the hybrid Namor, originating from baseline humans was probably a phenomenon that frightened many and probably made them feel allusions to dystopian science fiction stories like with the Morlocks and Eloi of H.G. Well's the Time Machine.

Has there been any source that has stated that Magneto's A-Bomb in Santo Marco was never publicized? Shouldn't the Avengers have known that Pietro saved San Marco or did the Avengers know but never went public with it in order to help Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch distance themselves from the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants?

I grant that you have a point that this is an incident of 'Magneto does not care about the population' predating Morrison.

But then again, even the old evil Magneto was never as sadistic a monster as Morrison's that had to be retconned away to have been a fraud.

Oh no, I was saying I understand why heroes would feel depressed; life in the MU generally sucks, no matter who you are.

'Depressed' ain't the same thing as... that.

It tends to go up and down like in the DC universe, even though in some ways the DCU have it easier than MU and vice-versa.

 

[Chuckg]

Has there been any source that has stated that Magneto's A-Bomb in Santo Marco was never publicized?

Magneto's not going to advertise his own failure, and Xavier's going to cheerfully kick dirt over any news that might make public perception worse for mutants if he can, so, really, I can't imagine any reason why it would be publicized.

 

[Lord Raine]

Oh no, I was saying I understand why heroes would feel depressed; life in the MU generally sucks, no matter who you are.

'Depressed' ain't the same thing as... that.

Oh. Depression I can totally understand. I just don't think I'd ever wish I was normal, because that's really kind of dumb if you stop and think about it.

You know. Just for the record. I mean, Bruce Wayne has ISSUES, but as far as I know, not once has he ever whined about how he wishes he had never gotten kickass ninja training. Not unless it was in the context of "I'm starting to wish I had never gotten that ninja training, what with all the pissed off ninjas trying to kill me."

 

[Lord Raine]

I'll note that while I'm holding up Batman as an example, this isn't really about him. I'm talking about what I perceive as a recurring failure of logic in Marvel comics, in that, while it's perfectly acceptable for some heroes to get depressed or jaded over the constant, nonstop reaming that gets thrown at them, or even for them to become villains out of a desire to get back at those they perceive as having wronged them, I do not and never have understood the "I wish I was just like the people that are nonstop assholes towards me and everyone like me" thing that many mutants seem to have. That makes no sense. Not emotion sense, in the form of how people think, or in the logical sense, in the form of critical thinking. There is just no sense to it. It is, quite literally, nonsensical.

Seriously. What the hell? Am I missing something here? Am I? Because if I am, somebody please explain it to me. I genuinely want to know.

 

[Crusader]

Has there been any source that has stated that Magneto's A-Bomb in Santo Marco was never publicized?

Magneto's not going to advertise his own failure, and Xavier's going to cheerfully kick dirt over any news that might make public perception worse for mutants if he can, so, really, I can't imagine any reason why it would be publicized.

I don't think the X-Men took the disarmed A-Bomb with them since they were probably more worried about Professor X at that time. If they did then they must have been pretty disciplined despite their age at that time to clean up that thing, even though traces of radiation would have remained.

 

[Chuckg]

Seriously. What the hell? Am I missing something here? Am I? Because if I am, somebody please explain it to me. I genuinely want to know.

I think it's the same as anybody else in a minority group targeted for mass hatred and genocide who might wish that 'Damn, I wish I'd been born of the other color/race/gender/etc.' Not because you admire your oppressors and want to identify with them, but simply because you're tired of being shit on and would like to be a member of the Ins rather than the Outs.

 

[ragnarok1337]

While this discussion about how many ways the Marvelverse is fucked up is quite interesting. What about the original topic?

 

[Prince Charon]

Seriously. What the hell? Am I missing something here? Am I? Because if I am, somebody please explain it to me. I genuinely want to know.

I think it's the same as anybody else in a minority group targeted for mass hatred and genocide who might wish that 'Damn, I wish I'd been born of the other color/race/gender/etc.' Not because you admire your oppressors and want to identify with them, but simply because you're tired of being shit on and would like to be a member of the Ins rather than the Outs.

True. Lots of nerds wish they were part of the popular kids, for example, but most don't want (or won't admit to wanting) to be bullying assholes, which is what quite a few of the popular kids are.

Plus, Scott specifically, like Rogue, who has it rather worse, has an annoying disadvantage associated with his power.

 

[ragnarok1337]

While this discussion about how many ways the Marvelverse is fucked up is quite interesting. What about the original topic?

I quote myself here because it is necessary.

GET THE HELL BACK ON TOPIC!

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Doctor Strange and The senshi would probably meet encounter each other all the time. Galaxia would be dead in the water, bitch is fooling with Galactus' food supply.

Setsuna, was actually pretty respected in the scientific communities despite her age and was trusted with a lot of projects before and after she became Sailor Pluto again. She'd probably meet Richards, Banner and whoever.

Michiru would probably really interested in Atlantis.

 

[Lord Raine]

Seriously. What the hell? Am I missing something here? Am I? Because if I am, somebody please explain it to me. I genuinely want to know.

I think it's the same as anybody else in a minority group targeted for mass hatred and genocide who might wish that 'Damn, I wish I'd been born of the other color/race/gender/etc.' Not because you admire your oppressors and want to identify with them, but simply because you're tired of being shit on and would like to be a member of the Ins rather than the Outs.

Except that I am a member of such a minority, and have received treatment like that my entire life. Not once did I ever one to be one of them, because they are fucking assholes.

Also, you're kind of missing the "superpowers" part of the equation here. If I could fly, turn invisible, throw fireballs, and punch bears to death, I'd consider being discriminated against almost a sort of karma. Yeah, I tend to get treated like shit for no reason, but that's because my life is FUCKING AWESOME.

Seriously. At the end of the day, Storm can shoot lightning at people, Cyclops is made of lasers, and Iceman is a goddamn shonen protagonist. What the fuck are they complaining about? I'd take the superpowers and the discrimination. Hell to the fuck yes. The only people who have reason to be emo are the ones like Rouge, Nightcrawler, and Beast, who are either so visibly different people will always be somewhat repulsed by them, or have powers that are really more like crippling curses than cool toys.

But all the cool toy people? They should shut the fuck up. I'm looking at you, Scott.

And yet funnily enough, it's the sideshow mutants like Beast and Nightcrawler who are often the most stable and reasonable. Then you look at, say, Scott, and start to wonder if maybe the writers got the character personalities mixed up.

 

[Chuckg]

Yeah, but dude, you tend to react to things a little differently than most other people do. You are the guy who is marching to the different drummer.

Now that I've been reminded about high school, yeah, wishing to be part of the popular kids was indeed a common pastime among the various torment victims of the popular kids. Not because they liked the beating, but because they wanted to escape it.

Also, the power to shoot lightning bolts is fun only if you WANT a career fighting bad guys; there's a lot of people who don't enjoy combat, and to them, the ability to shoot death rays from their eyes or ice cannons from their hands is basically useless. Not everybody enjoys combat or adventure. Fuck, look around; the human race is like 95% stay-at-home.

 

[ragnarok1337]

Well, Chuckg and Lord Raine, you are either complete idiots, trolls or you can't read. Get back on topic. After all, it's not like I mentioned it 3 times already--oh wait.

 

[Crusader]

How about the Inner Senshi and the Defenders teaming up against an alliance comprising of the ressurected gallery of rogues of the Sailor Senshi, being led by either Loki, Dormammu or Mephisto from behind the scenes? The old SNES video game after all had the Inner & Outer Senshi fight their old foes when an outside force ressurected them.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Hell. ANY happy-go-lucky shoujo/shounen character would cause the Marvelverse to implode. No matter what, they stand up look their opponent in the face, and defeat it while shouting about the power of friendship and such. A few off the top of my head:

There are a few 'heroes' who do precisely that. Out of them all, the only one who had any sort of success is Squirrel Girl, and she only manages to win against high profile opponents - she actually has a losing record against people who are her supposed equals in power.

The others? They all died, and stayed dead, or suffered a fate worse than death (Hi, Speedball!) and went emo-trash.

Might be worth it just to see some of those insufferable Power of Friendship dolts be broken so thoroughly they went Speedball/Penance and donned a suit that hurts them constantly like he did... :snigger:

Or, you could not be one of those who enjoy GRIMDARK and EMO and ANGST just for the sake of them and try to write something LIGHTER and SOFTER for once. Yay, another person who wants DRAMA for the sake of DRAMA.

Someone once said that we look up to heroes so much just so we can see them fall. I say that we are so eager to watch them fall, so that when we keep watching we are able to see them get back up.

Oh, who am I kidding? Your screenname is Genocide Heart. GENOCIDE. HEART. You suck the joy out of everything you touch.

My screenname is GenocideHeart because it's the final boss of T260G's quest in SaGa frontier. It was basically a battle in cyberspace, and at the time I found it the coolest thing ever, so I used that name. Over the years, I got used to it, and it stuck.

Are you done assuming things about my screenname now? Or do I have to draw a diagram?

 

[Ordo]

Doctor Strange and The senshi would probably meet encounter each other all the time.

You know, Ami should be talking with Strange as he is a talented Doctor. Hmmm a male mentor figure that helps her get over some of the Daddy issues she has...

Galaxia would be dead in the water, bitch is fooling with Galactus' food supply.

Hmmm Sailor Galaxia vs The Silver Surfer...might be fun to see.
Oh! To make the fight more interesting, it's a result of the Scrulls manipulating Galaxia to strike at the Surfer as a way of avenging their lost world. The idea being to hurt Galactus by taking away his hereld.

Galactus: *staring at the scrulls* "I gave you plenty of time to evacuate. Those deaths are not on my hands, they are on yours."

Setsuna, was actually pretty respected in the scientific communities despite her age and was trusted with a lot of projects before and after she became Sailor Pluto again. She'd probably meet Richards, Banner and whoever.

She likely knows something of Banners expierements and may have even helped the man, and his alter ego, in the past. You know what, I'd love to see a sequence where Tony Stark tries to charm his way into her bed, without knowing what she really is, could be fun.

Michiru would probably really interested in Atlantis.

With Sue Richards doing everything in her power to push the young woman into Namors arms...

Actually, the version of Sue that can stomp the rest of the four into the ground, would make an excellent advisor to a young team of female super heroes....

Edit: Wait, one more!

Since Usagi is the future ruler of the Lunar Kingdom, she's mentored by T'Challa, Black Bolt and Steve Rogers.

 

[ragnarok1337]

Sailor Venus AKA Sailor V fought for a while on her lonesome in Britain for a few years, right? So give her a mentor.

 

[Belgarion213]

Can't we have young team of super heroines utterly sick of Sue Richards (least favorite by FAR of the F4, and most of it stems from this one depiction of her from way back when. Haven't read/watched anything about them for years but just left me feeling that any teenager would resent the hell of Sue Richards trying to play mentor.

 

[Leonite]

One of the Captain Britains perhaps?

Wolverine has pretty much wandered the globe, maybe he took on one of the monsters at one point, led to a bit of a rocky relationship when the monster in question is a corrupted human that he tried to kill, not knowing of the corruption?

Ami is likely to be a little interested in Atlantis too given her element pretty much covers ice and cold water. Hakura as well... but for more protective reasons.

Maybe Moon/Chibi Moon/Saturn, given their relative innocence, can calm Hulk down? I see this more with Chibi Moon given her age though.

Maybe Setsuna, is interested in what role Spider-Man plays, given who he is in both identities?

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Minako only went to England in the anime. She stayed in Japan in the manga, though she was a friend of cops.

Hotaru would probably be the best bet with the Hulk.

Usagi would probably like Sue just for the fact she's a superhero mom, Usagi would need help on how to discipline a child with superpowers.

Rei, Michiru, Mamoru and Hotaru might get mislabeled as mutants while they're young. Mamoru especially since he always had Psychometry, visions and healing. Though if he was mistaken, I doubt he'd be that bothered by people's treatment of him. He was already harassed for being a orphan and used to be disliked by the public considering he started off as a jewel thief. He's pretty happy so long as he has his Usako and his daughter.

Hmmm Sailor Galaxia vs The Silver Surfer...might be fun to see.
Oh! To make the fight more interesting, it's a result of the Scrulls manipulating Galaxia to strike at the Surfer as a way of avenging their lost world. The idea being to hurt Galactus by taking away his hereld.

Galaxia is a very smug woman. She'd consider the Skrulls trash like everything else around her. In Galaxia's mind, "If you're not a senshi, you're beneath me." Chaos got her to start her crusade because she was still looking for her planet. Every thing she did was in the name of finding her planet. But in the end she only listened to him though because he/she was stronger then her.

I could see Mau, Coronis, Mermaid, Cocoon and Chuu being part of the Shi'ar Empire. Not Kinmoku though.

Reed Richards would probably be really interested in the senshi's barrier technology since it can shut off the solar system from the rest of the galaxy.