SM - Percy Jackson Idea Thread

[ragnarok1337]

And that's why the antis are wrong. They ignore the Jesus effect from Usagi, and try to build CT around the idea that it's a normal person running it, and that normal methods were used to create it.

She was elected to that position. She has a 100% approval rating. Whatever suppositions are made about how life must clearly suck for the normal residents are by definition wrong from the outset, because if they were right, they would vote for somebody else, or at the very least, the approval rating would be lower than Everybody?.

Perfection is BORING. Why do you think all stories about Utopias have some deep, hidden secret? You can't write about perfection for any length of time, because it's, well, perfect. THAT is probably the reason for all the "CT is corrupt and/or is bad in some way" fics. I remember a quote from a F/SN fanfic. Give me a minute to look it up...

From the first chapter of <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6372400/1/bChaos_b_bTheory_b' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Chaos Theory</a>:

...

The word 'perfect' seemed to come up a lot.

The thing about perfection, real perfection, is that it sort of speaks for itself. A truly immaculate situation would not need to be pointed out; it would be obviously perfect to anyone looking at it. The architect of a truly perfect plan would not need to reassure themselves as to its perfection, because it would be clear immediately that it could not possibly go wrong.

Oh, and who is Zill? I agree with the law, I would just like to know who this "Zill person is who supposedly coined it.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

And that's why the antis are wrong. They ignore the Jesus effect from Usagi, and try to build CT around the idea that it's a normal person running it, and that normal methods were used to create it.

She was elected to that position. She has a 100% approval rating. Whatever suppositions are made about how life must clearly suck for the normal residents are by definition wrong from the outset, because if they were right, they would vote for somebody else, or at the very least, the approval rating would be lower than Everybody?.

Perfection is BORING. Why do you think all stories about Utopias have some deep, hidden secret? You can't write about perfection for any length of time, because it's, well, perfect. THAT is probably the reason for all the "CT is corrupt and/or is bad in some way" fics. I remember a quote from a F/SN fanfic. Give me a minute to look it up...

From the first chapter of <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6372400/1/bChaos_b_bTheory_b' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Chaos Theory</a>:

...

The word 'perfect' seemed to come up a lot.

The thing about perfection, real perfection, is that it sort of speaks for itself. A truly immaculate situation would not need to be pointed out; it would be obviously perfect to anyone looking at it. The architect of a truly perfect plan would not need to reassure themselves as to its perfection, because it would be clear immediately that it could not possibly go wrong.

Oh, and who is Zill? I agree with the law, I would just like to know who this "Zill person is who supposedly coined it.

So basically you admit yeah CT is fine in canon but you want a fanon version because you like it better. Good to know.

I've always thought that when people argued about CT both sides were arguing something different. The pro-side is arguing that canonically it's supposed be a good place. The Prince and the Princess get married and everyone lives happily ever after (fairy tale ending). The anti side is arguing from the point of view saying lets assume that the general population in SM acts like real people; what would need to happen for CT to be created.

In other words the pro side is arguing forwards from character personalities and painting CT based on that, grounding it in the troupes of a shoujo manga; the anti side is arguing backwards from CT and painting the character personalities from that, grounding their argument in what would happen in real life.

Just my two cents though.

I've never seen a version of the CT Debate that didn't throw out the words Purification or Great Freeze killing everybody.

Usagi had Rulers from other planets pretty much drop down and cry at the visions of Crystal Tokyo. Years before it was built.

Again, Usagi is a figure where the Root of all Evil himself doesn't hate her. He just wants to become one with her. A woman who improved life that people live a 1000 years and can go to school on the Moon and other planets.

She's the hero constantly protecting earth because she loves its people so much.

 

[ragnarok1337]

So basically you admit yeah CT is fine in canon but you want a fanon version because you like it better. Good to know.

Write a story about a Utopia that is REALLY a Utopia and you have room to talk.

And I still say that we don't know much about CT from canon.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

So basically you admit yeah CT is fine in canon but you want a fanon version because you like it better. Good to know.

Write a story about a Utopia that is REALLY a Utopia and you have room to talk.

And I still say that we don't know much about CT from canon.

So everything I just brought out from canon doesn't count? Rulers from other planets crying at how beautiful it is, Religious Extremists admitting she's doing a awesome job and they're being cunts. People now being able to go to school on other planets, having a better life span, getting rid of sickness, having a better general understanding of the galaxy in general etc. --ALL CANON

I repeat the villains basically called her kingdom awesome and said she was a wonderful goddess/Eternal Protector of Earth. The Villains from the Future said this.

The only dark issue of CT is that it has to worry about Chaos attacking it 24/7 but they're not worried anyway because Usagi's gonna be around to kick his ass for as long as she needs to. Everyone on earth all knows this. They all know that she loves every single one of them just for being them. Her awakening as Eternal Sailor Moon sent her feelings of love about earth all through out the galaxy including Earth. Demande himself, had never seen her look at anyone in disgust/revulsion until she looked at him.

There is no real life equivalent to Usagi. Nobody hates her. The Root of evil himself doesn't hate her. She's canonically born from all that is good in the universe. She's not selfish or power hungry. She just wants everyone to have the freedom to have happy lives and the freedom to make their own choices. She left Black Moon alone because they decided to leave so she let them go. People elected her to her position. She didn't take it by force. People said, "You are awesome. We want you to lead."

It may see, unreasonable to you. But again canon says Usagi had so kind and charismatic that people gave her this position. She didn't force her way in it at all.

Everything we have from Canon says its awesome. Every time it's mentioned. It's been treated positively. From the heroes to the villains to the people who passed the palace on the street. People picked on Chibiusa because they were wondering why she wasn't as awesome as her mom. Everything I've stated is from canon.

You on the other hand have are just saying your opinion again. You've yet again not offered any proof that its not a great kingdom. So bring evidence in your next post that it's not or shut up. Don't say we don't know enough. We do. Everything we know about it from canon says its concentrated awesome.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Back on topic, while I'd prefer it if the Senshi weren't written into the crossover as members of the Greek pantheon, it's hard to contest that their names and some of their origins make them a fairly natural fit. Come to think of it, didn't Helios pop up in SM as a horse or a pegasus or some sort of weird winged unicorn thingie? Wasn't he one of Endymion's contemporaries and the dude/horse/whatever in charge of Elysium?

Speaking of which, can you imagine the debacle when Usagi hears about the mythological Endymion? The one where he hooked up with Selene and sired her children?

Two of them canonically are members of the panthenon though. Selene=Serenity, Sailor Pluto was stuck at the space-time door because she was the daughter of Chronos. Her secondary duty was to be a guardian in the Underworld.

The rest I could see as related to the Titans instead of the Olympians to follow the theme and just thought to be killed off. Being a big surprise when they reappear in modern time.

Also Queen Serenity/Princess Serenity share the same name. It could have easily just led to the myths combining the figure like a lot of people do with Chronos/Kronos.

Helios was a priest in Elysium. But he's someone who could just have the same name. Not like he's important at all.

Elysium in SM was in another dimension. It wouldn't be a stretch for it to be the actual Elysium in PJ.

 

[Inaba]

Two of them canonically are members of the panthenon though. Selene=Serenity, Sailor Pluto was stuck at the space-time door because she was the daughter of Chronos. Her secondary duty was to be a guardian in the Underworld.

The rest I could see as related to the Titans instead of the Olympians to follow the theme and just thought to be killed off. Being a big surprise when they reappear in modern time.

Also Queen Serenity/Princess Serenity share the same name. It could have easily just led to the myths combining the figure like a lot of people do with Chronos/Kronos.

Helios was a priest in Elysium. But he's someone who could just have the same name. Not like he's important at all.

Elysium in SM was in another dimension. It wouldn't be a stretch for it to be the actual Elysium in PJ.

Good point, I'd forgotten about Usagi's other name because I likes puns too much. Pre-reincarnation USagi being conflated with her mother would be an excellent explanation for the Endymion myth and I've always loved how tangled up the stories and myths of less formalized religions can be in real life.

Chronos/Kronos conflation on the other hand, always smacked of not doing the research on the parts of writers. Although admittedly, the names really are quite similar when rendered in the Latin alphabet.

As for Elysium, welp, it's not like anyone important is taking up the space in Greek myth, unless the PJ-verse plopped down someone or something important in it?

 

[Deleted member 5249]

It wouldn't be a hard stretch at all to combine the two. They share the same name, both have Silver hair in odangos and blue eyes and Princess Serenity's canonically pretty young compared to everyone else.

Anime turned Princess Serenity's hair blonde to differentiate between the two but manga had them just appear to be older and younger versions of the same person.

 

[Ryuugi]

Regarding Percy's mother's actions against Gabe at the end of Book 1, I understand perfectly well that the man was utterly terrible and I've very little sympathy for him in regards to his ultimate fate. That does not change that the fact that Percy's mother committed a deliberate act of murder that is disproportionate to what wrongs were done to her. I would be sympathetic to cases of domestic abuse where the victim felt that his or her life is in imminent danger and therefore acted in 'preemptive self-defense', but I do not recall that her situation was as bad as that.

She was getting beaten.

Because when she came back from the dead and returned home, Gabe had to return the money he got from her life insurance.

That's why he beat her. He didn't even care that she was dead, except in how it made things harder for him.

It was that bad.

I also have misgivings about her marrying someone in order to provide a cover for Percy considering the sort of shit that would likely descend on the kid and by extension those around him once he came of age, but those remain misgivings and are understandable if not necessarily right in my opinion.

Yeah, because letting hundreds of monsters come after him was so much better. Remember, Percy was chased by monsters his entire life. As a baby, he once woke up in his craddle with snakes in his bed (he'd strangled them, though). A Cyclopse stopped by his school when he was young. Etc.

Remember that at this point, there were five children of the Big Three. Nico and Bianca were hidden to save their lives (from Zeus himself), Thalia had died, and Jason had been sent to an extremely harsh camp at the age of two. Percy's the only one that didn't have to worry about shit lke constant death (he got Gabe out of the deal, though, so it wasn't a great trade).

Remember, however, that she didn't just have to hide him from the monsters; she had to hide him from the Gods, too. I can think of at least three gods that wanted to kill Percy at some point. Zeus himself considered killing him at least twice, just to avert the Prophecy.

 

[Inaba]

She was getting beaten.

Because when she came back from the dead and returned home, Gabe had to return the money he got from her life insurance.

That's why he beat her. He didn't even care that she was dead, except in how it made things harder for him.

Bad enough to the point of rendering homicide justifiable self-defense? I'm dubious but I'll concede the point since I don't remember the book all that well.

Yeah, because letting hundreds of monsters come after him was so much better. Remember, Percy was chased by monsters his entire life. As a baby, he once woke up in his craddle with snakes in his bed (he'd strangled them, though). A Cyclopse stopped by his school when he was young. Etc.

Remember that at this point, there were five children of the Big Three. Nico and Bianca were hidden to save their lives (from Zeus himself), Thalia had died, and Jason had been sent to an extremely harsh camp at the age of two. Percy's the only one that didn't have to worry about shit lke constant death (he got Gabe out of the deal, though, so it wasn't a great trade).

Remember, however, that she didn't just have to hide him from the monsters; she had to hide him from the Gods, too. I can think of at least three gods that wanted to kill Percy at some point. Zeus himself considered killing him at least twice, just to avert the Prophecy.

Yes, I understand that her choice was the best possible means at her disposal to protect her son, which is a commendable act under most circumstances and one of the most sympathetic decisions that a person can make. It does not change the fact that her cover family (not the best term, I know) would be put into a scenario where they could easily end up as collateral damage. The fact that Gabe was a turd of a man does not change the fact that she deliberately put him in harm's way to protect her own son.

Whether that is a commendable action or not, I don't know. I am not sure enough in my understanding of ethics to make that kind of judgment and I do not particularly want to. What I am sure in though is that the rightfulness and wrongness of actions do not change depending on who is the victim of the act.

 

[Ryuugi]

Bad enough to the point of rendering homicide justifiable self-defense? I'm dubious but I'll concede the point since I don't remember the book all that well.

After seven (six?) years of abuse and theft? Yes. I pointed out the life insurance as a particularly disgusting moment, but it was a single incident. Gabe had been hitting Sally for years and taking all her money and insulting and using her son. Hell, after Percy vanish, he tried to send the police after him and get him arrested, rather then showing any worry.

Yes, I understand that her choice was the best possible means at her disposal to protect her son, which is a commendable act under most circumstances and one of the most sympathetic decisions that a person can make. It does not change the fact that her cover family (not the best term, I know) would be put into a scenario where they could easily end up as collateral damage. The fact that Gabe was a turd of a man does not change the fact that she deliberately put him in harm's way to protect her own son.

Whether that is a commendable action or not, I don't know. I am not sure enough in my understanding of ethics to make that kind of judgment and I do not particularly want to. What I am sure in though is that the rightfulness and wrongness of actions do not change depending on who is the victim of the act.

...

Wow.

You really don't remember the books.

Gab was never in any danger. He warded away monsters. That was the whole point. Monsters avoided Gab (and thus Percy) like the plague. No monsters ever got near Gab. The closest a monster ever got to him was with Grover, who wanted to run the hell away.

 

[Inaba]

Wait, what?

Did he generate some sort of barrier of disbelief that warded away monsters or something, cause what the hell?

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Wait, what?

Did he generate some sort of barrier of disbelief that warded away monsters or something, cause what the hell?

Yes he was a big shield. That's why Sally stayed with him. Monsters avoided him because of his scent.

 

[Inaba]

Huh, my mistake then, I guess I shouldn't have skimmed the first three books during lectures and then dropped them. I read the Scion RPG beforehand and started reading the series because of that and dropped it when I found it a disappointment.

Why was Gabe a monster-deterrent? How did this tie into the metaphysics of the setting?

Edit: whoops, so much for reading comprehension. But seriously, he was a monster deterrent because he smelled bad?

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Huh, my mistake then, I guess I shouldn't have skimmed the first three books during lectures and then dropped them. I read the Scion RPG beforehand and started reading the series because of that and dropped it when I found it a disappointment.

Why was Gabe a monster-deterrent? How did this tie into the metaphysics of the setting?

He was so disgustingly human his scent covered Percy and made him invisible to monsters.

 

[Inaba]

That's . . . kind of lame.

Back on topic, how might the Olympians react to the Senshi running around? In particular, how might Zeus react considering his understandably paranoid nature (Metis, Thetis, Omphalos) to someone like Usagi?

 

[Glimmervoid]

Huh, my mistake then, I guess I shouldn't have skimmed the first three books during lectures and then dropped them. I read the Scion RPG beforehand and started reading the series because of that and dropped it when I found it a disappointment.

Why was Gabe a monster-deterrent? How did this tie into the metaphysics of the setting?

He was so disgustingly human his scent covered Percy and made him invisible to monsters.

Hum, here's an idea. What if the Senshi transformation existed for a similar purpose, hide their godly powers under a human sent but allow them to take on their godly/demi-godly powers when needed. Only a few of the Senshi have powers in human form after all.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

That's . . . kind of lame.

Back on topic, how might the Olympians react to the Senshi running around? In particular, how might Zeus react considering his understandable paranoid nature (Metis, Thetis, Omphalos) to someone like Usagi?

Most likely, People would think Usagi's a child of Artemis. Selene is gone after all in PJ & O. They'd probably have enough sense to try to not mention to the gods they're reincarnations.

If they do learn she's a daughter of a titan. She'd probably be considered a threat. But Zeus' would more likely be worried about Setsuna and Saturn, maybe even Makoto if she's his kid. She's Herculean Jupiter after all. If Neptune's a daughter of Poseidon, her as well.

 

[Inaba]

Most likely, People would think Usagi's a child of Artemis. Selene is gone after all. They'd probably have enough sense to try to not mention to the gods they're reincarnations.

Heh, isn't Artemis supposed to be the virgin goddess? I guess Tsukino-papa might have to watch out for Apollo and his plague arrows. Good thing he's ahead of Orion in that Usagi can always bring him back.

 

[Glimmervoid]

That's . . . kind of lame.

Back on topic, how might the Olympians react to the Senshi running around? In particular, how might Zeus react considering his understandable paranoid nature (Metis, Thetis, Omphalos) to someone like Usagi?

Most likely, People would think Usagi's a child of Artemis. Selene is gone after all. They'd probably have enough sense to try to not mention to the gods they're reincarnations.

Just a quick FYI, reincarnation exists in the Percy Jackson-verse. We're told you get to go to the Isles of the Blest if you get set to Elysium three times in three different life times. We also know that getting reincarnated is a choice (you can choice to stay in Elysium) and its an option open to demi-gods. We're not told what happens to a demi-gods powers if they're reincarnated, as far as I can remember through.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

That's . . . kind of lame.

Back on topic, how might the Olympians react to the Senshi running around? In particular, how might Zeus react considering his understandable paranoid nature (Metis, Thetis, Omphalos) to someone like Usagi?

Most likely, People would think Usagi's a child of Artemis. Selene is gone after all. They'd probably have enough sense to try to not mention to the gods they're reincarnations.

Just a quick FYI, reincarnation exists in the Percy Jackson-verse. We're told you get to go to the Isles of the Blest if you get set to Elysium three times in three different life times. We also know that getting reincarnated is a choice (you can choice to stay in Elysium) and its an option open to demi-gods. We're not told what happens to a demi-gods powers if they're reincarnated, as far as I can remember through.

I remember reincarnation exists. But like you said we have no ideas what happens to powers if they reincarnate. The senshi are canonically genetic copies of who they were in the Silver Millennium. Unlike regular reincarnations.

Usagi might be a full titan. Her father is never named. Hmm if you make the Selene Myth split between two different characters. Hyperion, could be Princess Serenity's daddy. Considering Percy fought him in the Last Olympian could cause some conflict.

Heh, isn't Artemis supposed to be the virgin goddess? I guess Tsukino-papa might have to watch out for Apollo and his plague arrows. Good thing he's ahead of Orion in that Usagi can always bring him back.

Cue the Tsukinos showing the gods Ikuko giving birth to Usagi. leading to general confusion for everybody.

Rei would probably get along swimmingly with the Sisters of Artemis. She did vow her Chasity away to Usagi.

 

[Glimmervoid]

Rei would probably get along swimmingly with the Sisters of Artemis. She did vow her Chasity away to Usagi.

Considering Rei's civilian powers are vaguely prophetic in nature, I wouldn't be surprised if she's put down as a daughter of Apollo. The fact that her ultimate attack (Mars Flame Sniper) has a bow and arrow would probably help. Hotaru, who has healing powers in her civilian form, could also well be labeled the same and this is all given even more weight by the fact that Apollo canonically spent time in Japain.

The Usagi as daughter of Artemis theory might also be supported by her having her own band of 'hunters' (i.e. the Senshi) and especially Rei who's even sworn an oath of chastity.

 

[Deleted member 5249]

Rei would probably get along swimmingly with the Sisters of Artemis. She did vow her Chasity away to Usagi.

Considering Rei's civilian powers are vaguely prophetic in nature, I wouldn't be surprised if she's put down as a daughter of Apollo. The fact that her ultimate attack (Mars Flame Sniper) has a bow and arrow would probably help. Hotaru, who has healing powers in her civilian form, could also well be labeled the same and this is all given even more weight by the fact that Apollo canonically spent time in Japain.

The Usagi as daughter of Artemis theory might also be supported by her having her own band of 'hunters' (i.e. the Senshi) and especially Rei who's even sworn an oath of chastity.

Hmm. How about Michiru. Her psychic power of the group is labelled the best. But she's a child of the sea. A relative of Amphitrite or just another daughter of Poseidon?

 

[Glimmervoid]

Rei would probably get along swimmingly with the Sisters of Artemis. She did vow her Chasity away to Usagi.

Considering Rei's civilian powers are vaguely prophetic in nature, I wouldn't be surprised if she's put down as a daughter of Apollo. The fact that her ultimate attack (Mars Flame Sniper) has a bow and arrow would probably help. Hotaru, who has healing powers in her civilian form, could also well be labeled the same and this is all given even more weight by the fact that Apollo canonically spent time in Japain.

The Usagi as daughter of Artemis theory might also be supported by her having her own band of 'hunters' (i.e. the Senshi) and especially Rei who's even sworn an oath of chastity.

Hmm. How about Michiru. Her psychic power of the group is labelled the best. But she's a child of the sea. A relative of Amphitrite or just another daughter of Poseidon?

Well there's in-universe and out of universe terms. That is, what people in universe think they might be can be different than what they are. In current day Percy Jackson, Prophecy is the preview of Apollo. If however the Senshi are from way back (say from before Apollo killed the Python and took Gaia's Prophetic power), then their powers of prophecy could be from a different source. If the Senshi are from the time of the Protogenoi (before the Titans) things could be very different.

Usagi's mom being Selene might pose a bit of a problem but if you went with the Queen Serenity/Princess Serenity confusion hypothesis be could boost Selene back to a Protogenoi.

 

[Inaba]

Requesting clarification here - is there some innate difference between the different generations of gods in the PJ-verse or is the distinction one of politics so to speak?

 

[Glimmervoid]

Requesting clarification here - is there some innate difference between the different generations of gods in the PJ-verse or is the distinction one of politics so to speak?

There does not seem to be any large difference between Titans and Olympians, as far as I could tell. There are some hints, though, that the Protogenoi (second generation of gods after Choas but before the Titans) retain their mythological role as the things they represent (i.e. Gaia is the earth and Ouranos is the sky) but I might be wrong on that count.