Still think this isn't really going to be an 'action rpg', but rather a hybrid real time turn based thing like basically every other FF game released over the past 15 years. I bet actions will be selected from a menu or other GUI interface, and not simply have you running around hacking and slashing with an attack button like Kingdom Hearts. It doesn't make a lot of sense for Square to do that with FF VII really because of the party focus of the game and the fact that it would actually be more work to do things that way and would likely not go over with the fan base they're trying to cater too here.
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Semantics. It was obvious what I meant there. Only specific actions like using items, inventory management, and special attacks such as summons and magic are menu based. Your main attack, "Swing Keyblade", was not a menu action. Just like every action RPG ever.
I don't see this being an Action RPG. Party management is too big a part of the original game and I don't see them kicking everyone but Cloud over to AI. It doesn't suit the way the plot works for FF VII to do things that way. I don't think it would work as an Action RPG without a massive rewrite that makes it pretty much unrecognizable as FF VII.
I'm not saying it's going to have the same turn based combat system as the original, but I am pretty sure you're going to be managing the entire party during combat segments by selecting actions, having them play out, and then moving on to the next character's turn. It'll probably be something similar to how recent FF games have worked and not just you running around hacking at enemies like how Kingdom Hearts worked. There are just too many elements that would make difficult with character arcs and subplots.
If they do make this a hack and slash RPG, they've lost even more of my interest, because that definitely means cutting out a lot of the side stuff relating to the other characters, all of whom are more interesting than Cloud. He serves as a nice hub to bring them together, but isn't that strong a character on his own. He's a generic blank protagonist intentionally just like a lot of other RPG leads without a ton of personality of his own. He serves as an easy to project onto window to the interesting things that happen around him for the player. He's meant to look cool and not have any strongly defined traits to begin with.
Yes, he does get fleshed out a little more as the story goes on, but he never really develops as much as even the secret characters do. It's always someone else's story that he just happened to be a part of, even his home town being destroyed was more Tifa's and Sephiroth's story than his own. I really don't see how they can turn FF VII into an action RPG without cutting a ton of content from the game and rewriting it to the point that it wouldn't really be FF VII anymore.
A generic hack and slash with light RPG elements set in Final Fantasy VII's world that has the player only controlling Cloud? No thanks. I'll pass. If I wanted that I'd play Devil May Cry or something. Especially considering this is Final Fantasy VII and it is trying to appeal to a large audience, it wouldn't be anywhere near difficult enough to appeal to me as that type of game anyway. Even if there's a way to switch between characters it doesn't really fix the issue. You're still not really playing as a party, which is a big part of FF VII's whole narrative themes about trust and family.
I don't see this being an Action RPG. Party management is too big a part of the original game and I don't see them kicking everyone but Cloud over to AI. It doesn't suit the way the plot works for FF VII to do things that way. I don't think it would work as an Action RPG without a massive rewrite that makes it pretty much unrecognizable as FF VII.
I'm not saying it's going to have the same turn based combat system as the original, but I am pretty sure you're going to be managing the entire party during combat segments by selecting actions, having them play out, and then moving on to the next character's turn. It'll probably be something similar to how recent FF games have worked and not just you running around hacking at enemies like how Kingdom Hearts worked. There are just too many elements that would make difficult with character arcs and subplots.
If they do make this a hack and slash RPG, they've lost even more of my interest, because that definitely means cutting out a lot of the side stuff relating to the other characters, all of whom are more interesting than Cloud. He serves as a nice hub to bring them together, but isn't that strong a character on his own. He's a generic blank protagonist intentionally just like a lot of other RPG leads without a ton of personality of his own. He serves as an easy to project onto window to the interesting things that happen around him for the player. He's meant to look cool and not have any strongly defined traits to begin with.
Yes, he does get fleshed out a little more as the story goes on, but he never really develops as much as even the secret characters do. It's always someone else's story that he just happened to be a part of, even his home town being destroyed was more Tifa's and Sephiroth's story than his own. I really don't see how they can turn FF VII into an action RPG without cutting a ton of content from the game and rewriting it to the point that it wouldn't really be FF VII anymore.
A generic hack and slash with light RPG elements set in Final Fantasy VII's world that has the player only controlling Cloud? No thanks. I'll pass. If I wanted that I'd play Devil May Cry or something. Especially considering this is Final Fantasy VII and it is trying to appeal to a large audience, it wouldn't be anywhere near difficult enough to appeal to me as that type of game anyway. Even if there's a way to switch between characters it doesn't really fix the issue. You're still not really playing as a party, which is a big part of FF VII's whole narrative themes about trust and family.
~NGD OMEGA~ said:
Er, no. Swinging the Keyblade specifically is a menu option. It's the First Attack Option you default to:
That's not a menu. It's a command list for button assignments. Menus are interactive, and the command list really isn't. You don't have to select 'attack' with a cursor each time you use it.
You go into a menu to assign buttons there, but that in itself is not a menu. It's part of the HUD, it's just a key that tells you what you have the buttons assigned to and doesn't act as anything but a reference. Menus open windows and use cursors or highlighted selection to select actions available or items.
A menu would be if a window opened up and you had to select "attack" each time you wanted to hit something from an option list or something along those lines, like so:
Kingdom Hearts does not behave this way. You hit the button attack is assigned to and Sora attacks in real time. That's not a a menu based system.
This is the menu in Kingdom Hearts, not the screenshot you posted:
Even ignoring the fact that said menu is interactive in that you can move it to select other options instead of your attack, your own previous statement proves your backtracking and poor attempts to hide it here:
Putting aside the actually correct stuff that does need to be handled in there like inventory management, assigning and activating special attacks which in cases like Ars Arcanum and the other special moves do need to be activated in the pause menu to be able to use them actively in combat using the menu, how in that pause menu do you, as you put it, use items, summons, magic, or indeed using those special attacks directly in combat if that's what you were indeed saying this whole time?
I'll grant you the special attacks needing to be activated in the ability section and items needing to be equipped to slots to use in combat, however magic and summons cannot be touched in there as they're automatically activated as you get them, so if you referenced them at all, you were talking about the command menu, not the pause menu. At absolute best, giving you the greatest possible amount of leniency on this, the only way to even slightly alter how magic is used in that menu is to assign them to shortcuts so you don't muck about with the command menu to get something specific, but even that only applies to magic itself, Summons you can't do shit with so that alone kills your attempt to backtrack there as there's no way to spin doctor that into this tangent, at all. So in your attempt to split hairs to save face, you tried to completely change what you were talking about previously, proving you wrong.
You goofed, happens to the best of us, admit it and move on. Your poor attempts to cover it up only dig the hole deeper.
KH has an active menu that is constantly open and clearly displayed on the screen which you can use directly in combat that allows you to attack with the keyblade, use magic, items, summons, or special attacks depending on what's selected. It's the exact same thing as what you just posted, baring that it's real time meaning there's no point it actually closes, so arguing that tangent is the actual splitting hairs here. You click X, you do the action selected or otherwise go into a sub menu, exactly how that same game works like some kind of, I don't know, menu or something. It's the same thing whether you select attack to whack something with your keyblade or go into the magic menu to cast Fire or Gravity or whatever. If you're not on attack, X does not hit something with the Keyblade, the exact same as in a FF game where if you don't select attack, you don't hit someone with your weapon for your base attack. In real time KH literally performs the selected action on the displayed command menu.
That's how the entire interface was built, and it works just like the standard FF Menu because that's the way it was designed, it's only activated in Real Time rather than the other delay based systems they normally used. And the system could in theory work just fine the same way for this game same way if they decided to go the action route. It's literally a menu, there's no other way of spinning this.
Not helping your case is the fact that this is basically arguing the difference between the FF Pause menu and the battle menu here, which even in that game are two completely separate things, so even if you were arguing the case for that, which I just proved you weren't, the analogue already falls apart because FF already has an analogue for the KH Pause menu, which is its own pause menu where you do the same ability management, inventory management, status and quest check and so on, differing slightly depending on the game. So either way you'd still be wrong.
Putting aside the actually correct stuff that does need to be handled in there like inventory management, assigning and activating special attacks which in cases like Ars Arcanum and the other special moves do need to be activated in the pause menu to be able to use them actively in combat using the menu, how in that pause menu do you, as you put it, use items, summons, magic, or indeed using those special attacks directly in combat if that's what you were indeed saying this whole time?
I'll grant you the special attacks needing to be activated in the ability section and items needing to be equipped to slots to use in combat, however magic and summons cannot be touched in there as they're automatically activated as you get them, so if you referenced them at all, you were talking about the command menu, not the pause menu. At absolute best, giving you the greatest possible amount of leniency on this, the only way to even slightly alter how magic is used in that menu is to assign them to shortcuts so you don't muck about with the command menu to get something specific, but even that only applies to magic itself, Summons you can't do shit with so that alone kills your attempt to backtrack there as there's no way to spin doctor that into this tangent, at all. So in your attempt to split hairs to save face, you tried to completely change what you were talking about previously, proving you wrong.
You goofed, happens to the best of us, admit it and move on. Your poor attempts to cover it up only dig the hole deeper.
KH has an active menu that is constantly open and clearly displayed on the screen which you can use directly in combat that allows you to attack with the keyblade, use magic, items, summons, or special attacks depending on what's selected. It's the exact same thing as what you just posted, baring that it's real time meaning there's no point it actually closes, so arguing that tangent is the actual splitting hairs here. You click X, you do the action selected or otherwise go into a sub menu, exactly how that same game works like some kind of, I don't know, menu or something. It's the same thing whether you select attack to whack something with your keyblade or go into the magic menu to cast Fire or Gravity or whatever. If you're not on attack, X does not hit something with the Keyblade, the exact same as in a FF game where if you don't select attack, you don't hit someone with your weapon for your base attack. In real time KH literally performs the selected action on the displayed command menu.
That's how the entire interface was built, and it works just like the standard FF Menu because that's the way it was designed, it's only activated in Real Time rather than the other delay based systems they normally used. And the system could in theory work just fine the same way for this game same way if they decided to go the action route. It's literally a menu, there's no other way of spinning this.
Not helping your case is the fact that this is basically arguing the difference between the FF Pause menu and the battle menu here, which even in that game are two completely separate things, so even if you were arguing the case for that, which I just proved you weren't, the analogue already falls apart because FF already has an analogue for the KH Pause menu, which is its own pause menu where you do the same ability management, inventory management, status and quest check and so on, differing slightly depending on the game. So either way you'd still be wrong.
I'm not sure Contrabardus has played the original Kingdom Hearts.
If he had, he'd realize that while there's indeed a 'button-specific command' menu, you have to hold one of the shoulder buttons to even activate it. Otherwise, you have to use the D-Pad to select what your next action will be, exactly like Final Fantasy, and those buttons only do dodge moves and jumping.
If he had, he'd realize that while there's indeed a 'button-specific command' menu, you have to hold one of the shoulder buttons to even activate it. Otherwise, you have to use the D-Pad to select what your next action will be, exactly like Final Fantasy, and those buttons only do dodge moves and jumping.
I'll have to get it out and play it again to check up on that. I'll have to dig up the disk as it's on a shelf somewhere in with the rest of my console games mostly collecting dust. I freely admit I could be wrong about the details and that may be more of a menu than I remember as I've not played it in probably ten years. I think the last time I actually sat down and played it all the way through was just before KH II was released, and that was 2005.
Still, my point still stands. You play KH a lot more like you would a 3D Zelda game than you do a main series Final Fantasy game. This is a fact. It's what makes it an Action RPG. Rumor has it FF XV may be an action RPG similar to KH, but that's never been officially confirmed. Thus far the only word on that is that it was 'inspired' by KH's gameplay speed. I can see it working for a new entry to the franchise, but not so much for a remake.
In KH you wander around an open environment, attack with a single button press and react in real time while controlling one character and not a party. Resource management and battle strategy are handled more like an action game than a traditional RPG as it is in Final Fantasy VII. You run around, hacking and slashing at enemies, picking up drops as you go in a world that's more 3d platformer than RPG environment.
Generally speaking, you aren't messing around with the menus during the bulk of gameplay and tend to only use them between hectic bouts of action for upkeep purposes, or to set off special moves such as summons or magic that isn't hotkeyed. It's basically a fake menu system over what is really an action platformer with RPG elements. It worked for KH, I'm not saying this is a bad thing for every game that does it. I don't see Final Fantasy VII in particular working as that type of game, not without massive alterations that don't benefit the game. It would need to be massively simplified and would lose a lot of the plot, the side missions in particular would suffer in such a translation.
Maybe SquEnix will prove me wrong, but I doubt it. If they go that route for FF VII, it's going to lose something in the process. Sure, it will be pretty, but it won't really be FF VII anymore. The more Action RPG like it is, the less interested I'll be. I may give it a shot anyway if it gets rave reviews, once it's all out and I can just get it in one package that is.
Still, my point still stands. You play KH a lot more like you would a 3D Zelda game than you do a main series Final Fantasy game. This is a fact. It's what makes it an Action RPG. Rumor has it FF XV may be an action RPG similar to KH, but that's never been officially confirmed. Thus far the only word on that is that it was 'inspired' by KH's gameplay speed. I can see it working for a new entry to the franchise, but not so much for a remake.
In KH you wander around an open environment, attack with a single button press and react in real time while controlling one character and not a party. Resource management and battle strategy are handled more like an action game than a traditional RPG as it is in Final Fantasy VII. You run around, hacking and slashing at enemies, picking up drops as you go in a world that's more 3d platformer than RPG environment.
Generally speaking, you aren't messing around with the menus during the bulk of gameplay and tend to only use them between hectic bouts of action for upkeep purposes, or to set off special moves such as summons or magic that isn't hotkeyed. It's basically a fake menu system over what is really an action platformer with RPG elements. It worked for KH, I'm not saying this is a bad thing for every game that does it. I don't see Final Fantasy VII in particular working as that type of game, not without massive alterations that don't benefit the game. It would need to be massively simplified and would lose a lot of the plot, the side missions in particular would suffer in such a translation.
Maybe SquEnix will prove me wrong, but I doubt it. If they go that route for FF VII, it's going to lose something in the process. Sure, it will be pretty, but it won't really be FF VII anymore. The more Action RPG like it is, the less interested I'll be. I may give it a shot anyway if it gets rave reviews, once it's all out and I can just get it in one package that is.
Now there's a vastly more correct statement. Anyone who is playing KH correctly tends to not be mucking about too much in the command menu barring specialized circumstances or safe downtime. It's still there, it still exists, but anyone who actually knows what they're doing has hotkeyed the important stuff and only defaults to the menu when they want to try something fancy on the rare occasion where they see the chance or have the whim to do so.
More skilled players take full advantage of the not menued stuff the vast majority of the time, the Tech system in KH1 or otherwise the bork broken guard skills/counter skills and reaction commands of KH2. Sure a drive where available, but even then quite a few will also default to auto drive skills to just call them up with the Triangle instead.
That being said, here we can clearly control a party, so there's that difference at least. If there's one thing I desperately wanted added to KH that FF had, it'd be the lack of controlling my party members when I wanted to. However FFVII appears to have that bit at least covered, you clearly take control of and attack with Barret as well as Cloud in that trailer so switching does indeed appear to be possible, something I hope can be added to KH3.
If nothing else it would give them a reason to make both Donald and Goofy just as robust skill wise as Sora, and hopefully less dead weights even when not in direct control. Nothing ticked me off more in 2 than the fact that Sora had more robust magic skills than Donald, which misses the point entirely to say the least.
More skilled players take full advantage of the not menued stuff the vast majority of the time, the Tech system in KH1 or otherwise the bork broken guard skills/counter skills and reaction commands of KH2. Sure a drive where available, but even then quite a few will also default to auto drive skills to just call them up with the Triangle instead.
That being said, here we can clearly control a party, so there's that difference at least. If there's one thing I desperately wanted added to KH that FF had, it'd be the lack of controlling my party members when I wanted to. However FFVII appears to have that bit at least covered, you clearly take control of and attack with Barret as well as Cloud in that trailer so switching does indeed appear to be possible, something I hope can be added to KH3.
If nothing else it would give them a reason to make both Donald and Goofy just as robust skill wise as Sora, and hopefully less dead weights even when not in direct control. Nothing ticked me off more in 2 than the fact that Sora had more robust magic skills than Donald, which misses the point entirely to say the least.
I am kinda suprised at how much Square is putting into this, they are making movies, animes, and probably some more spin-offs. They really want to make FFXV a multimedia franchise, and a part of me worries that if they fail they might not really recover from this. But so far, the game looks good, so I might be worrying too much. Also, rumors are that a PC port is being confirmed, so I guess that's one less reason to buy a PS4.
Yea I'm a little worried too at how much money squareenix is spending on this and then i remember...... FF 14 is profitable now and has a concurrent subscription or more than 2 million.... thats a LOT of money that comes into square every month. It's probably the main reason why they can throw so much money on this project.
That fanfic I mentioned almost a year ago, Cissnei's Path, has a Tv Tropes page now.
I loved it, it was my favorite Final Fantasy game. The gambit system was fun to game and the battle system was fantastic. I loved the epic plot too.
My only issue with the game was the absolutely absurd amounts of grinding required to get the best gear, but I used a gameshark code for 100% item drop rates from monsters. That made the game a lot more fun in my opinion, but even that didn't remove all the tediousness - no joke, there are items that can only be acquired from specific treasure chests, which aren't guaranteed to spawn, and which have their own freaking random loot drop tables!.
Too bad there's no way to use cheat codes with newer consoles anymore. Nowadays they are sold as dlc if they even still exist. I miss my oldschool cheat devices.
My only issue with the game was the absolutely absurd amounts of grinding required to get the best gear, but I used a gameshark code for 100% item drop rates from monsters. That made the game a lot more fun in my opinion, but even that didn't remove all the tediousness - no joke, there are items that can only be acquired from specific treasure chests, which aren't guaranteed to spawn, and which have their own freaking random loot drop tables!.
Too bad there's no way to use cheat codes with newer consoles anymore. Nowadays they are sold as dlc if they even still exist. I miss my oldschool cheat devices.