Star Wars: is the Old Republic a democracy?

Kibbles

Well-Known Member
#1
In Star Wars the Old Republic preceding the formation of the Galactic Empire, while depicted as decaying, was often touted as an example towards which the Rebels strove. A fair, egalitarian democracy on a galactic level.

But, the question I will ask here is: was it a democracy at all?

Given a lack of sources depicting the structure of the Galactic Republic, we will need to operate from the Chommel Sector example, as it is the only firm example we have in the period leading up to the Clone Wars. The Chommel Sector, encompassing 36 Republic members and 40,000 colonies and dependencies is represented in the Galactic Senate by a single Senator. In the period we will observe, this is Padme Amidala, from the sector capitol world Naboo, an awoved democrat and leader of the pacifists (one of the Senate factions). However, as we will see, it seems that Padme Amidala was far from a supporter of full democracy.

The first issues is the fact that the Chommel Sector in it's entirety falls under the jurisdiction of the Galactic Republic. However, we also know that most of these worlds don't rate representation in the government. While dubious, we have such examples in our own history. The French Republic, the Second German Empire and the British Empire all ruled vast areas without those areas being granted any form of representation. In the Star Wars galaxy, this practice would be more easily defendable than colonial practices on Earth, but not by much.

The second issue, a much more crucial one, is the method by which the representative of the sector is chosen for the Senate (note that the word elected hasn't been used). In our example, Padme Amidala, following the end of her tenure as Queen of Naboo (an elected head of state, the title of Queen is ceremonial and does not carry with it any greater authority than that of any republican head of state), was asked to serve as Senator by Queen Jamilla of Naboo and was subsequently appointed to the Republic Senate as Senator for the Chommel Sector. Note that there is no election and that the head of state for a sector capitol has the authority to appoint representatives to the central government without (presumably) even bothering to consult with other member worlds of the Republic!

Finally, we have a curious fact. Senator Amidala was a pacifist (going so far as to present bills to abolish the military in the middle of a war), but her supposed constituents were, in fact, very much opposed to her stances. The population of Naboo were militarists (arguing for the creation, or recreation, of a Republic Army and Navy, abolished a thousand years prior in the Russan Reformation). It seems unlikely that Senator Amidala would be able to retain her position supporting such an unpopular stance, so it stands to reason that she wasn't elected in the first place.

Overall, while this is only the example of a single sector in a Republic that has thousands, it doesn't paint a nice picture. Indeed, this indicates that the Empire wasn't exactly a departure from the Old Republic it is often painted as ... in fact, it seems to be quite the opposite, the Empire is the Republic, centralized and more active, but nonetheless the same polity (after all, the Republic has a track record of glassing planets just like the Empire does).

The one primary issue against the Empire, humano-centrism, was already present during the Old Republic, spouted by many individuals who would later hold positions of significant authority in the Empire (such as the Tarkin family of Eriadu). Similarly, we have, again, the Naboo example of completely ignoring a sentient species on their own world and not even bothering to either establish an embassy or any form of relationship with them until said species demonstrated the capability to stand toe-to-toe with a modern army.

The New Republic, as a response to the Empire's actions, went in the opposite direction. Decentralization to the point where the Senate is seemingly as powerless as it was prior to the Declaration of a New Order and where individual member worlds could descend into all-out war with each other without the central authority being able to intervene (as aptly demonstrated during the Caamas Document Crisis) ... or, in fact, being able to field any naval force to prevent such an outbreak.

Similarly, at it's peak, the New Republic was half the size of the Empire at it's peak. That amounts to roughly 750,000 member worlds and more than 30 million dependencies, but we know for a fact that only 200,000 worlds were represented (and thus could influence the decision-making process) in the Senate. While this number seems better than those for the Old Republic, it doesn't paint the paragon of democracy and justice the New Republic presented itself as.

I will write no conclusions here as I don't exactly have ample evidence to truly substantiate the claims made above, them being simple guesswork from a singular example. So, thoughts? Opinions? Flames?

And, yes, this is the sort of thing I think about in my free time ... when I'm bored mind you. I'm not that weird most of the time.
 

foesjoe

Well-Known Member
#2
Hmm, I'm not that familiar with the political scene in Star Wars, but the films suggest that the main problems in the Old Republic were corruption, indecision and procrastination.

It seems as if it was "every senator for themselves". They didn't have any political parties, most senators were only looking to further their own or their sector's interests, and none were interested in doing things for the "greater good". And whenever there were major, far-reaching decisions to make, the senate degenerated into a bunch of bickering children, who would take forever to reach a decision. If they did reach one at all.

It also appears that their constitution sucked. Or maybe they didn't have one. Or maybe the senators were simply idiots.

And while it isn't likely that everything was bad under the Empire, I've always thought of it as the Star Wars version of Nazi Germany. Palpatine's rise to power and the way he acted are kind of similar to Hitler, and the Empire is also a totalitarian regime where any "undesirables" are made to disappear. They even have the whole racial superiority thing going.

The Old and New Republic probably had or have their problems, but I don't think the Empire was an improvement. Rather the opposite.
 
#3
I can't remember the source off the top of my head, but I recall a line that stated the rebellion was small potatoes until Alderaan. Surprisingly it wasn't the world being blown up that help the rebellion, but instead the dissolution of the senate. After that entire planets started joining the rebels, feeling that they had no voice in the government.
 

SotF

Well-Known Member
#4
While the Republic was a democracy, its parts weren't all democracies.

The republic essentially left worlds as they were and the colonies that came from them continued their governments. How they pick their senators is up to that area.

With Padme, the local authority could pick and choose their senator
 

Rooster455

Well-Known Member
#5
I think we have to remember that a Republic and a Democracy aren't exactly the same thing.

Democracy, every one votes. Republic, we elect officials who vote for us.

In a galaxy with trillions and trillions of beings, a straight democracy would be an absolute, total and complete nightmare.

And yes, the Old and New Republic had a constitution.

I am curious as to what exactly you mean by the New Republic's claims of wanting Democracy and Justice. From what I've seen they wanted the Old Republic back, because dispite being corrupt and incompetent, it was better than being ruled by a tyrannical dictator who siezed power. From what I've seen they wanted to be able to elect their leaders and have a fair system of government.
 

Kibbles

Well-Known Member
#6
Rooster455 said:
I think we have to remember that a Republic and a Democracy aren't exactly the same thing.
Oh, I know that. It's just that Amidala's little speech about the death of democracy when Palpatine is made Emperor smacks of hypocrisy. After all, she wasn't elected, now, was she?

But, put more simply, the Republic doesn't necessarily include elections anywhere. The Senate picks the Supreme Chancellor among themselves (and, presumably, appoint members of the Courts) and, if the Chommel Sector is to be used as an example (unfortunately, the only sector with sufficient information) then elections don't get involved anywhere in the system.

Well, actually, we have some glimpses of the Corellian Sector during Bel Iblis' little stunt during the Clone Wars, but not a sufficient one.

Therefore, the Republic was as democratic a polity as the Holy Roman Empire. After all, the HRE had elections for it's leader and representatives of member states in the Reichstag.

In a galaxy with trillions and trillions of beings, a straight democracy would be an absolute, total and complete nightmare.
And, as was later amply proven, the Empire actually managed to maintain order with more ease than the New or Old Republics. Not that I'm defending the Empire ... well, maybe the Fell Empire.

And yes, the Old and New Republic had a constitution.
So did the Empire, as Palpatine explicitly mentions a new Constitution in his Declaration of a New Order.

I am curious as to what exactly you mean by the New Republic's claims of wanting Democracy and Justice. From what I've seen they wanted the Old Republic back, because dispite being corrupt and incompetent, it was better than being ruled by a tyrannical dictator who siezed power. From what I've seen they wanted to be able to elect their leaders and have a fair system of government.
Actually, look at the leadership of the Rebelion: Mon Monthma, Senator of Chandrilla; Bail Organa, Senator of Alderaan; Garm Bel Iblis, Senator of Corellia (who, despite being a representative of the entire sector seemingly didn't give a damn about any world except Corellia, as his actions during the Clone Wars show). Mon Mothma and Bail were vocal opponents of both the Clone Wars and Palpatine, whereas Garm was ... a traitor, abandoning the Republic in war, then claiming to be a hero for it. Those people wanted the Old Republic back.

The average Rebel just wanted something better than the Empire. The announcement of the Alliance to Restore the Republic mentions a desire for a new, just and, above all, democratic Republic, as opposed to the rather totalitarian Empire.

And, as it turns out, what they got was an even more decentralized Republic. Quite an accomplishment considering the Old Republic was barely able to exert it's influence on it's own member worlds.

I'm not arguing that a Republic must necessarily mean universal suffrage, or even partial suffrage, but for all the claims by a number of Senators in canon ... there doesn't seem to have been much participation of the populace in any level of making the Republic work. From what's seen, the Republic is not a democratic state at all, it's an Oligarchy.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#7
Kibbles said:
Rooster455 said:
I think we have to remember that a Republic and a Democracy aren't exactly the same thing.
Oh, I know that. It's just that Amidala's little speech about the death of democracy when Palpatine is made Emperor smacks of hypocrisy. After all, she wasn't elected, now, was she?
Pretty sure she said 'liberty', not 'democracy'. <a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp069Y_P-9M' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>See the clip.</a> Liberty and democracy are not the same thing, so you can at least drop the hypocrisy charge. Also, royal 'elections' happen in some Earth cultures, and aren't necessarily what we'd consider democratic.

As for representation in the Chommel sector, Jar Jar Binks was an <a href='http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Representative' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Associate Planetary Representative</a> in Attack of the Clones. The movies don't make it clear how many Representatives each delegation has, nor whether all delegates are expected to be in the senate pod, so it could be that there are Representatives for all member plants, plus a few extra for groups like the Gungans.

I'll agree that it probably wasn't as democratic as many fans think, though.
 

Kibbles

Well-Known Member
#8
Prince Charon said:
Kibbles said:
Rooster455 said:
I think we have to remember that a Republic and a Democracy aren't exactly the same thing.
Oh, I know that. It's just that Amidala's little speech about the death of democracy when Palpatine is made Emperor smacks of hypocrisy. After all, she wasn't elected, now, was she?
Pretty sure she said 'liberty', not 'democracy'. <a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp069Y_P-9M' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>See the clip.</a> Liberty and democracy are not the same thing, so you can at least drop the hypocrisy charge. Also, royal 'elections' happen in some Earth cultures, and aren't necessarily what we'd consider democratic.
Hm, indeed. Note to self, check before speaking next time. I misremembered.

As for representation in the Chommel sector, Jar Jar Binks was an Associate Planetary Representative in Attack of the Clones. The movies don't make it clear how many Representatives each delegation has, nor whether all delegates are expected to be in the senate pod, so it could be that there are Representatives for all member plants, plus a few extra for groups like the Gungans.
Why would the Gungans get special treatment, though? If each species gets a representative, then there should be 20 million representatives on Coruscant milling around the Senate building (plus a few dozen to represent major human groups). If each member gets a representative, we're talking about over a million representatives (meaning a whole lot of species don't get a say), a saner number, but still ...

I'm going to assume that colonies and dependencies don't get anything for sanity's sake (because that totals out to over 60 million worlds).

Jar Jar was present on Coruscant at all times, but only had the right to vote (and without any consultation with anyone else) when granted the authority of the Senator. Looking at the list, it seems that species get special representatives (Gran, Dac and Rodia each having one), though the case of Dac (home to two species) seems to indicate member worlds ... though Dac is an odd case and possibly an outlier. I suppose they hold some sort of advisory role, but still wouldn't grant them much influence.
 

Shiakou

Well-Known Member
#9
I think that with several dozen million species multiplied by hundreds if not thousands of cultures, that there is no way to enforce a uniform rule of law, democratic or otherwise.
 

bissek

Well-Known Member
#10
The problem was that the Republic had roughly a million inhabited systems in it. If each system sends one representative, that makes a Senate with a million people. Even with one Senator per sector (a region of space with 50 inhabited systems in it), that just cuts it down to 20,000. That's way too big to be practical. It's literally impossible to create a system that has every cultural unit represented in the government (And there can be multiple cultural units in a system, Corellia had at least three across its five inhabited planets) and still keep bureaucracy down to a point where things can get done in a reasonable amount of time.

They'd have been better off breaking their society into smaller subunits. Their territory was simply too unwieldy to administer.
 

Prince Charon

Well-Known Member
#11
bissek said:
The problem was that the Republic had roughly a million inhabited systems in it. If each system sends one representative, that makes a Senate with a million people. Even with one Senator per sector (a region of space with 50 inhabited systems in it), that just cuts it down to 20,000. That's way too big to be practical. It's literally impossible to create a system that has every cultural unit represented in the government (And there can be multiple cultural units in a system, Corellia had at least three across its five inhabited planets) and still keep bureaucracy down to a point where things can get done in a reasonable amount of time.

They'd have been better off breaking their society into smaller subunits. Their territory was simply too unwieldy to administer.
That may have been what they did, we just don't have a lot of detail on it, because it wasn't important to the story.
 

sith2886

Well-Known Member
#12
that sounded way to stupid and looked worse in print never mind
 
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