Nasuverse Stargate Crossover

[Prince Charon]

This is partly inspired by the definition of magecraft in the wiki:

Magecraft is the ability to reproduce what can be scientifically realized regardless of time and funds. The limits of Magecraft have changed with time, as science evolved and miracles from before became technically possible through science.

It says nothing about whether something is Top Secret, or even Above Top Secret. Depending on how you look at it, it could be 'anything the Collective Unconscious of Earth knows how to do' (and given the lack of interest Nasuverse magi have shown in SCIENCE!, the individual magus doesn't seem to need to know how it works, just how to get the World to do it for them). That works well with the idea that magecraft is psychic manipulation of matter and energy, which is certainly possible in Stargate, while True Magic is working out how to do something beyond what is currently known, which the World tries to prevent.

Depending on how you look at it, the two times Jack got <a href='http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Repository_of_knowledge' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>grabbed by the Ancient head-sucker</a> might count (it doesn't so much matter that he doesn't remember, the knowledge would still be in <a href='http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Akasha' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Akasha</a> - though depending on how much knowledge Akasha kept from Jack, this could be really unbalancing), as could Jacob Carter blending with Selmak, or even Sam getting possessed by Jolinar - regular Goa'uld would be less inclined to share how things work with their hosts. The stuff they actually know how to build from scratch, rather than from stolen or purchased parts, certainly does. As things suddenly become possible or easier to do, they're going to start wondering what's going on, and some magi will start investigating.

The <a href='http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Age_of_Gods' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Age of Gods</a> is an issue, but in this timeline, it could be something cyclic, (or something that seems cyclic, but is actually more complicated), rather than linked to population, as the modern magi believe. Ra arrived and left during the low part of the cycle, and <a href='https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gilgamesh' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Gilgamesh</a> lived during the high part.

Alternatively, magic circuits may have been a gift from <a href='http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Merlin' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Moros</a>, <a href='http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Janus' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Janus</a>, or one of the other Ancients who came to Earth, but they could only make so many before the others stopped them, and these same circuits have been passed on over and over through the ensuing millennia. Of course, if the knowledge of how to make more is in the Repositories, Earth's magi may now be able to make more. <a href='http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Emiya_Shirou' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Shirou</a> was able to make temporary magic circuits from his own nerves (which was a bad idea, but he didn't know any better), so making new permanent magic circuits could be possible already (there's an idea for that already, on SB.com). If this path is taken, the problem of magical strength being a limited resource (the more magi there are, the less powerful each one is) is itself caused by the limited number of magic circuits, and thus is no-longer a problem. Yes, this could be very unbalancing, but I didn't say how difficult/expensive it would be to make more circuits.

So, thoughts?

 

[zeebee1]

Where's the idea?

 

[daniel_gudman]

Maybe Ra was kicked out by the ultra-humans that lived during the early Age of Gods, and Gilgamesh was the King who unified the world in the chaos of the power-vacuum after they left.

Would Alaya be the "Will of Humans" or the "Will of Humans on Earth"?

How do Crest Worms compare to the Goa'uld?

 

[trevelyan1983]

Also, if you're doing the whole interstellar and interplanetary thing from Stargate, you'll have to watch out for TYPES. Sod's law says that they'll pop up when you least want them to.

The Ancients, and thus the Asgard and Goa'uld, have certain addresses and co-ordinates blacklisted for a reason. That reason is, ultra-evolved battle-hardened beasties that eat ships and shit asteroids.

 

[yog]

Oh, this is... this is interesting! So, to count:
First magic = matter constructor+ZPM/Arcturus
Second magic = quantum mirror
Third magic = ascension
Fourth magic = unknown.
Fivth magic = time-jumper (stargate doesn't count because this is not really replicable)
So only, possibly, fourth magic is still a true magic by the end of the show. To handwave away the existance of true magic at all (ancients being first evolution of the human live and all), true magic is true magic until human from earth can replicate the feat with science CONCIOUSLY (thus hanwaving away the repository problem).
About TYPES - can be handwaved away becase many planets have been terraformed by the ancients, thus, possibly, killing the planet spirits.
Now the point of contact must be decided. I can see several:
1) Shirou/someone else is abducted by Loki. Shirou makes some sense because of the regeneration (avalon) and magic circuits altering his nerves (which may be detectable by Asgard sensors). It can be interesting if shirou is from pre-war, maybe just a little time before the war.
2) During disclosure one of the ambassadors is, in fact, a mage.

Would Nox be magecraft/true magic civilization? They could have solved the problem of the limited amount of soul available. For laughs make them TYPES. Only the spirit of the their planet is ultra-hippy-pacifistic one. This explains why they were part of the great alliance of the four races even wen they don't seem to have any starships and large industry base.

 

[ragnarok1337]

Hate me for changing the subject and slightly derailing the thread, but I had an idea to cross F/SN and Stargate once.

The difference was O'Neill was involved in one of the Holy Grail Wars when he was younger. His Servant is still alive, if separated from him for many years (say Independent Action or however Gilgamesh is still around) when he left to get away from all the mage crap.

However, when his team is pinned down by impossible odds even for them (say an army of replicators or ten armies of Goa'uld, he uses his one remaining command seal to summon his Servant across the vastness of space to get them out of their situation.

Having to give the cliffnotes version of the Holy Grail War after he gets back to Hammond in typical O'Neill fashion would be hilarious.

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Anyway, ignore my post if you want and go back to the original discussion. Just wanted to get this out there.

 

[Prince Charon]

I do have an idea for how the SGC finds out about the magi - it starts with the battle of Antarctica, when a guy with a bow that conjures swords that turn into target-seeking energy bolts, a girl with an invisible weapon that fires energy blasts when swung like a sword, and several other weirdos show up to attack Anubis's forces.

They might have a Vimana, if its one of the timelines where they Befriended Gilgamesh, or didn't, but looted the King's Treasure-House thanks to Shirou seeing and tracing the key.

That said, I'd like to see ragnarok1337's idea expanded upon, as well.

 

[ragnarok1337]

Maybe Ra was kicked out by the ultra-humans that lived during the early Age of Gods, and Gilgamesh was the King who unified the world in the chaos of the power-vacuum after they left.

Would Alaya be the "Will of Humans" or the "Will of Humans on Earth"?

How do Crest Worms compare to the Goa'uld?

Speaking of...CONTEST!

Who's the bigger assholes: The Ancients or the Mages Association?

My money's on the Association, but the Ancients put up a good fight.

Also, how well would Ascended Ancients do against guys like Gilgamesh? I personally think curbstomp. And to break the setting...

Hallowed are the Ori. They could put up a good fight against the Servants themselves.

I don't know much about the crest worms, but the GOa'Uld are able to completely dominate a person, steal their memories and imitate the person perfectly. As shown in some of the "this kind person is actually a Goa'uld in disguise" episodes, they don't have to use their booming Large Ham Voice?. They just like to use it.

 

[Prince Charon]

As a matter of curiousity, how do Nasuverse characters stack up against Goa'uld canon capabilities? Specifically, what effect would Gae Bolg, Excalibur, or Hrunting have on the Death Gliders and Al'Kesh that attacked in Antarctica?

How well would Rho Aias do against the various levels of staff weapon and staff cannon, or Al'Kesh energy bombs?

EDIT: If the difference in power favors the magi as well as I think, how would the SGC react to a guy with a bow that shoots exploding swords that shoot down Death Gliders and (when it goes through the cockpit window, and maybe when it doesn't) Al'Kesh?

 

[Garlak]

I always imagined that "realizable with technology" meant things like, until man discovered fire, creating fire may have been a high magecraft. Afterwards, it was much easier to do.

Controlling lightning or magnetism probably became easier after people began utilizing electricity and magnets.

Flight may have been doable because there were some creatures that could carry people, and/or use of hang-gliders.

Instant or distant communication was difficult/rare until better ways to get in touch were made, like roads, or horses domesticated. Alternatively, communication spells could have always been simple because humans could theoretically go anywhere in enough time. Proven by the fact that humans DID spread across the whole Earth.


Of course, long ago, humans would have learned magic from supernatural creatures, and that kind of magic may have just simply worked differently. Because I get the feeling that modern thaumaturgy says things like "recreating mysteries"... like they're doing a trick to manage something previous generations could have done directly?

 

[Prince Charon]

Of course, long ago, humans would have learned magic from supernatural creatures, and that kind of magic may have just simply worked differently. Because I get the feeling that modern thaumaturgy says things like "recreating mysteries"... like they're doing a trick to manage something previous generations could have done directly?

Pretty sure that's the case, yeah. The modern tradition is supposed to be only 500 years old... which means that if Caster Medea's magic can be learned by modern humans, her students could be pretty damn scary.